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NQ, are you removing shopping bots from T1?


Messaline
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On 10/18/2022 at 2:16 AM, ColonkinYT said:

You probably won't get an answer here.
But bots are not removed. They just run out of orders.
I think that many will have to come to terms with this and are preparing to sell T1 ore at 10 and below...
As for earning coins, very limited missions await us...

I'm just shutting down MUs as the local market runs out of orders. No point in mining on a hex that can't pay its tax from mining. Hopefully, big ore buyers will decide that waiting for fools to sell at 10 isn't worth shutting down their factories.

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5 hours ago, Daphne Jones said:

I'm just shutting down MUs as the local market runs out of orders. No point in mining on a hex that can't pay its tax from mining. Hopefully, big ore buyers will decide that waiting for fools to sell at 10 isn't worth shutting down their factories.

This is true. Although the situation could be corrected by the banal introduction of mining missions. If you do not want to update bots.

 For example, the delivery of ore, albeit a little cheaper than the market. It would also remove excess ore from the market. (this is just my crazy suggestion how to quickly solve the problem. Possible as a temporary solution).
I see that the developers only like delivery missions. To take a mission on Alioth, and take the ore, say, to Aegis in the amount of 2 kt, is also the same task. You won’t do it quickly (you still need to take the mission and land on Aliot for this). You can’t do it on a light ship either (2+ kt of cargo weight is already a normal howler, albeit on an S core. And now the machines are working at full capacity!)

 

You can deal with this quickly, beautifully and with interest for many.

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So ?

What are we going to do with our minerals if nobody buys them, not even a bot?

What can new players do with their pebbles, they won't even have that to start with?

It will be urgent to move, right?

 

-------------------

 

Alors ?

Nous allons faire quoi avec nos minerais si personne ne les achètent, meme pas un bot ?

Que peuvent faire les nouveaux joueurs avec leurs cailloux, ils n'auront meme pas ca pour débuter ?

Il va être urgent de se bouger, non ?
--

Edited by Messaline
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We need to balance the income with the amount of money flowing out of the economy weekly due to taxes and schematics. 
 

If NQ fail to do this one single thing, the entire  in game economy collapses. Repeating the same mission to Aphelia twice a day is obviously not a tenable situation and is boring as sin. 

Presumably the 100k daily stipend is permanent? 
 

if every player has one tile like a good communist should, then they will have 200k ℏ per week to spend after taxes and like a peasant they can barter their ores for other wares and trinkets.
 

also, a proper communist org with 1000 robots, I mean players, will have 200m ℏ per week at its disposal and also receive an amount of ores as protection money from their members. 
 

Ah, the smell of communism in the morning.
 

Typically, still no answer from NQ regarding such an absolutely fundamental inquiry. This shows a level of disrespect towards their customers of almost Apple like proportions, IMHO. 

 

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The situation with T1 ores may change somewhat. For the current two-week cycle, the distribution of asteroids was as follows: 155 asteroids in the safe zone and 235 in the pvp zone.
If in the near future they introduce another 2-3 planets according to the plan (and do not introduce an additional respawn of asteroids), then the situation with the safe zone will worsen (i.e. the distribution will be even lower into the safe zone), which means that the supply of T1 ore on the market will decrease slightly ))

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T1 ore at 10q and below and using the term 'fools' in the same sentence? I wonder who is who...

 

It is still early game (less then four weeks) and most if not all Alioth T1 NPC buy orders are gone. Yes, there are still hundreds of millions on the starter moons around Alioth. But at the moment it isn't really feasible to fulfill those enmass. Personally I only recently started making larger buy orders (or buying directly) of T1 ore because I only recently had the cash for it. The quanta making machine only recently achieved critical mass, previously all my quanta went to schematics, taxes and a few BPCs (that made my life easier). Now I could spend 10M quanta on T1 ore buy orders. Why is that important? Because I'm not the only one and that directly translates to more competition on buy orders. We're mostly running on a thin safety margin, we don't (yet) have millions of T1 ore in reserve. So if we don't get those buy orders fulfilled the factory stops running, if the factory stops running no product is made, no products to sell. I already noticed stiff competition on Bauxite orders this weekend and now.

 

I'm running ~40 mining tiles (and still expanding) with 120+ T1 autominers and my factories still need more ore (mostly the ore that I'm not mining). I'm also still expanding my factories and any stock isn't sitting on the shelf for weeks (yet, that will happen eventually though). Everyone is still expanding, using mostly T1 products. Initially I was expecting that I would move to the outer planets at the end of the month, but with all the time/gate keeping NQ is doing with the Schematics, I'm not yet there (I can do it, certainly, but not as effective as I expected). Sure there are people and corps that are far beyond my (meager) production capabilities, but there are far more that are not even close to there yet. Eventually I'll move from Alioth to the outer planets, to do T2+ automining and others like me will follow. Less T1 ore in the economy, and more people wanting to buy it, with more funds to buy it. To use it ourselves for building stuff (ever expanding), selling stuff, and trading stuff. At the end of beta I was buying millions (if not tens of millions) of T1 ore at above 25q. How much do you think the bigger orgs and more dedicated players will need?

 

The buy bots will all be gone eventually, unless NQ resets them. I honestly don't see T1 ore for long below 25q (buy orders), with Quartz maybe as an exception... Why spend any rage on this mechanic that we all expected in some form or another.... I'm already happy that they don't respawn after every patch!

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8 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Typically, still no answer from NQ regarding such an absolutely fundamental inquiry. This shows a level of disrespect towards their customers of almost Apple like proportions, IMHO. 

i asked yesterday in the help chat. The answer was: Ask aphelia. With a little luck she will answer. 

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5 hours ago, Cergorach said:

T1 ore at 10q and below and using the term 'fools' in the same sentence? I wonder who is who...

 

It is still early game (less then four weeks) and most if not all Alioth T1 NPC buy orders are gone. Yes, there are still hundreds of millions on the starter moons around Alioth. But at the moment it isn't really feasible to fulfill those enmass. Personally I only recently started making larger buy orders (or buying directly) of T1 ore because I only recently had the cash for it. The quanta making machine only recently achieved critical mass, previously all my quanta went to schematics, taxes and a few BPCs (that made my life easier). Now I could spend 10M quanta on T1 ore buy orders. Why is that important? Because I'm not the only one and that directly translates to more competition on buy orders. We're mostly running on a thin safety margin, we don't (yet) have millions of T1 ore in reserve. So if we don't get those buy orders fulfilled the factory stops running, if the factory stops running no product is made, no products to sell. I already noticed stiff competition on Bauxite orders this weekend and now.

 

I'm running ~40 mining tiles (and still expanding) with 120+ T1 autominers and my factories still need more ore (mostly the ore that I'm not mining). I'm also still expanding my factories and any stock isn't sitting on the shelf for weeks (yet, that will happen eventually though). Everyone is still expanding, using mostly T1 products. Initially I was expecting that I would move to the outer planets at the end of the month, but with all the time/gate keeping NQ is doing with the Schematics, I'm not yet there (I can do it, certainly, but not as effective as I expected). Sure there are people and corps that are far beyond my (meager) production capabilities, but there are far more that are not even close to there yet. Eventually I'll move from Alioth to the outer planets, to do T2+ automining and others like me will follow. Less T1 ore in the economy, and more people wanting to buy it, with more funds to buy it. To use it ourselves for building stuff (ever expanding), selling stuff, and trading stuff. At the end of beta I was buying millions (if not tens of millions) of T1 ore at above 25q. How much do you think the bigger orgs and more dedicated players will need?

 

The buy bots will all be gone eventually, unless NQ resets them. I honestly don't see T1 ore for long below 25q (buy orders), with Quartz maybe as an exception... Why spend any rage on this mechanic that we all expected in some form or another.... I'm already happy that they don't respawn after every patch!


TLDR: “…humblebrag humblebrag spend 10 million ℏ on ore… humblebrag… I am running 120 auto miners on 40 tiles…humblebrag humblebrag…”

 

Lol… for a certain definition of “I”

 

sure bruh, just a typical player chiming in… about something.

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3 hours ago, Jinxed said:

sure bruh, just a typical player chiming in… about something.

Typical? Maybe not, but many of such players are around and we're just tiny compared to others, especially those that operate collectively in orgs. Are those large numbers? Sure, but certainly not unattainable. It's not so much a 'brag' but more an indication about the immense T1 ore hunger that is in DU, even after 18 months in beta with mega nodes, automining, duping, etc. the amount of T1 ore being bought was huge!

 

What I'm operating at is exponential growth, 99% of what I use is T1, 100% of what I sell is T1. Guess what I auto mine and harvest... You guessed it! T1 ore... For a long while I ran missions to pay for schematics and taxes. Then I started to over produce TCUs and Mining Units L and sell them at market. I now no longer run missions... Knowing how things work is a pretty big advantage for returning players from beta (and even then I get a ton of stuff wrong). But I also am not spending the amount of time on DU I did in beta... I'm not talking about that for no reason, it shows things from my (and others) perspective.

 

My problem with a lot of the comments in the forum (and other places) is misinformation, limited perspective, and/or limited experience. A poster that talks about 10q/L (or less) T1 ore... Do I need to say more? Talk about NPC buy orders at a time when their influence is no longer relevant? Do I need to go on?

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9 hours ago, Cergorach said:

My problem with a lot of the comments in the forum (and other places) is misinformation, limited perspective, and/or limited experience. A poster that talks about 10q/L (or less) T1 ore... Do I need to say more? Talk about NPC buy orders at a time when their influence is no longer relevant? Do I need to go on?

you dont decide if they are not longer relevant. You just made an assume for the future. Atm on Alioth the price is lower than 25. And its easy for misinformation to spread when NQ says NOTHING. 

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I've just been piling up T1 on Alioth waiting for this to be sorted out.

 

But i just went to a market on Madis, and the buy orders are starting to run out at the markets there too.

 

Has there been zero communication on this, other than telling us how it's supposed to work?

 

This is slightly annoying to me.  But if i was a new player, who claimed a territory on Alioth, and needed to be able to sell T1 to pay the tax.  This would really suck.

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If the bot buy orders are missing and you don't like the prices on the buy orders then set a sell order.   Not a solution to fixing it for NQ, but a workaround that can keep you moving while waiting for a fix.  If your ore doesn't sell fast enough you can run missions and challenges to pay taxes.

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On 10/24/2022 at 2:40 PM, Cergorach said:

Typical? Maybe not, but many of such players are around and we're just tiny compared to others, especially those that operate collectively in orgs. Are those large numbers? Sure, but certainly not unattainable. It's not so much a 'brag' but more an indication about the immense T1 ore hunger that is in DU, even after 18 months in beta with mega nodes, automining, duping, etc. the amount of T1 ore being bought was huge!

 

I can attest that my pre-0.23 L space core factor measured T1 ore in terms of L containers, with a hubs of 10 L containers for each T1... just for input... and it was always hungry.

 

Starting work on a space station now in hopes that Roid mining can get me back on track.  My current Madis factory is fed by 13 satellite territories plus its own miners - but its limited.  Those 14 groups of miners do keep that factory satisfied, and pay the taxes. at a cost of half a day every 4 days for calibration runs.  Not fun.  Roughly 70 miners all total (some have 2 for an ore, others have T2 miners, so average more than 4 per just in case another math nut reads this (I'm one!)).

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On 11/4/2022 at 5:44 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

Has there been zero communication on this, other than telling us how it's supposed to work?

 

This is slightly annoying to me.  But if i was a new player, who claimed a territory on Alioth, and needed to be able to sell T1 to pay the tax.  This would really suck.

Looking at the issues since launch that clearly have a higher priority then the T1 buy orders: The Sanctuary Territory Unit issue took over a month to fix. My guess is that they've not even started working on fixing this. NQ is notoriously bad at communication, thus the 'known issues' list in the patch notes isn't even complete.

 

IF you really want that 25q/l you can go to the Alioth Moons, a lot closer. I don't know how much T1 ore you have to sell, but unless it's millions, you can sell pretty well within 10% of the 25q/l (at market 6). New players have the same options, even more so because they can use the Market hubs to go with a backpack of ore to the closest Haven or Sanctuary market...

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Rather have them adding refresh on surface ores then any NPC action. All NPC actions are there to mask development hurdles, quanta sink, server load, etc.

 

If we need a quanta sink then just kill npc missions, If we need missions then why are players not making them, maybe look at that.

Market Bots the same issue, take away the issue dont place bots to semi fix it.

The moment all bots are gone is the moment economy can finally either stabilize or plummet, eitherway if you want a player driven game and a player driven economy. there is no room for Bots.

 

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I have 0 interest in running missions to pay taxes/schematic costs. I have 0 interest in running my T1 out to jago  to pay my taxes/schematic costs, and even that would be short term. If they think mission runners are going to spend all that quanta in buying ore.. lulz.  Its getting pretty close to past time to refill the bot orders, heck I have even noticed less people are buying stuff on the market because they dont have the quanta to buy. 

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Average Highest on Quartz is now around 10, Hematite is down to 15.7.   Coal and Bauxite holding around 20, which is ok.

 

Seems like the deflation on ore is warming up.  Has anyone run the math on breakeven?

 

Hmmm, suppose we could take a pass at it now:

 

Assume 400l/hr from a typical territory.  For now, lets ignore Calibration and talents.  Although those are huge, lets consider those "profit" used to buy items and schematics rather than paying land taxes.  Adjacency bonuses would also fall in the "profit" category.

 

So 400l/hr = 67.200 l/week.  Tax is 500,000.  Divide ore into tax and you get... roughly 7.4 quanta per unit of ore for a tile to pay its own taxes.

 

So not there yet, but Quartz is creeping up on it.  Something to watch out for.  Below that, I predict economic collapse.

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On 11/4/2022 at 6:44 PM, Atmosph3rik said:

Has there been zero communication on this, other than telling us how it's supposed to work?

There is not zero communications on this ! NQ-Deckard confirmed that bots will come back as this is their intention in a matter of week or so. That been said in the live stream of NQ-Ripley . However this might take longer to take place .

Edited by Habitant
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