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SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION - discussion thread


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3 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

If I believed that there was 20x the current 'veteran' player base out there ready to start playing within 1-2 months of launch and stick around long term I would be 100% behind a wipe.

 

Personally I think that this is a niche game and most of the people who are interested in it will have already tried it by now at some point.  So a launch will have mostly the players who are already playing or players who have stopped and decide to start again.  And it's hard to find players who have stopped and who are just waiting for a wipe-and-launch to dive back in.  If you want to say I'm wrong, they're out there and I just can't find them then I'd be delighted to be proved wrong, but just saying random numbers without any evidence is not a very convincing argument for a wipe.

Isn’t providing numbers without evidence what you just did?

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33 minutes ago, Remagz said:

You're missing the point I was trying to make. When I have 70M talent points, others will have 140M talent points, the gap never closes. I am proposing a talent point catch up multiplier so newer players gradually catch up in talent points over time so that after 2 or 3 years they are nearly fully caught up. 

 

This seems super obvious to do....

EVE works the same way and has been successful for a very long time. And this will be true a year from start. Two years. Three and so on.

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42 minutes ago, DarkEvader said:

Reading NQ's post "SHEDDING LIGHT ON A NOVAQUARK INTERNAL DISCUSSION", for me its very clear that they intend to wipe and the kind of wipe they want.


Now its just a matter of convincing as many players as possible of the benifits of said wipe. 


The removal of schematics is being thrown into the bargin, as a mean of turning more people in favor or the wipe. They propose a wipe to right all wrongs but reintroduce the former problems that schematics were supposed to solve?


So now it's a wipe and market nerf, as the newly reset economy will emerge weak, for without the need of schematics it will once again be easy to produce everything, no need for much trade or markets. Speaking of markets, the new Aegis space market coming in Athena will be a useless relic or the past.


Then, a few months after the wipe, they will come up with a new industry nerf.

 

 

This makes me wonder if NQ intends to remove schematics to entice those who left from the hysteria months ago. 
 

I don’t see it working or to any lasting effect. The same people who shrieked over schematics were also people complaining the game was boring.  

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2 minutes ago, Doombad said:

Isn’t providing numbers without evidence what you just did?

 

I stated my opinion and made it clear that it was just my opinion.  I also mentioned that I have been trying to confirm my opinion, something which I expanded on in another post further up.

 

I didn't just brainfart out a number like '95% of players are going to be happy' and state it as fact when you can see from the balance of posts in here that this certainly isn't the case at the moment.

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1 minute ago, Zeddrick said:

 

I stated my opinion and made it clear that it was just my opinion.  I also mentioned that I have been trying to confirm my opinion, something which I expanded on in another post further up.

 

I didn't just brainfart out a number like '95% of players are going to be happy' and state it as fact when you can see from the balance of posts in here that this certainly isn't the case at the moment.

I went back and read what you wrote again. I missed your point and apologize for that.

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3 hours ago, J0hnnyB said:

Would make NO sense for NQ go full release and not wipe. They need new players, you guys already had your fun. Nobody wants to see your 50 core base, no one cares. You guys crying u gonna get wiped but you guys are like 5% of the 100% amount of players NQ needs to game for survive. And the 95% new players they gonna be happy, So your guys tears only represent 5%.

I just gave you a mathematical equation to why wipe is a must

Except historically a game wipe has never brought in any substantial amount of players. You're saying that they'll see a 2000% increase in player base when they add the "1.0" and "Release" moniker to the game and do a wipe?

New World, for example- lost 80% of it's player base when going from Beta(and wiping) to release. It has since lost a further 80%.... and that is without a monthly subscription. https://steamdb.info/app/1063730/graphs/ The other difference, is with DU the player base largely makes the "game content"... paired with it being subscription based. it's a unique balance no other game has, and there is nothing to say wiping that content in the game would bring in more players.

If you have any data to back up your claims, I'd love to see it! Math is nice, big numbers are big, but numbers mean nothing without data to give them meaning.
 

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26 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

....um... you misquoted me there.  I certainly didn't say anything of the sort.  Perhaps you edited my reply badly.  Please edit it so it doesn't look like I said "So your guys tears only represent 5%." when actually it was J0hnyB who said that and I just replied to it.

 

If you're going to call someone an idiot, it's just common sense to make sure you direct that at the correct person right?

You are correct, I wanted to call the other dude an idiot not you my bad

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My Feedback what NQ should do / clear thinks out before a full wipe

(I Personally would prefer a full wipe)

Main Topics

-    Zero Tolerance Politic with Bugs / Exploits, no disaster with the schematics that costs only 1% from the original price

-    What kind of game loop is coming instead of schematics, then everyone can build a Gigafactory (are also exitisting with Schematics) but will be a lot easier without

-    Clean the Org System max 5 orgs for each Player, also in each Org there hast o be an Superlegate like you wanted in the past

-    Maybe rethink about the size of the galaxy? Reduce the distance form the galaxy for casual friendly gameplay for missions ?

I know its a hard topic, but some people would prefer a shorter travel time (with small ships you have the short time, with big ships / missions ship you need a long time

 

Refered to bugg reports

#46315,      #40785,

 

 

Secondary Topics

-    New Seed  for the Planets for the Mining Units (that we cant pre Scan the hot spots)

-    Fix the Ammo Talents or Remove them

-    What will happen with the Thoramine ore? Or will it be deleted because still no use?

-    With the new start, you get a lot of starter items like rezz node, or some people the throne from the recruit a  friend system, will this block your inventory so you cant pick items up?

-    Harder start for new player (because there is no free ships or something like that)

-    Sanctuary? Do we get a second sanctuary unit or only the one from the FTUE Planet? Because we cant pick them up, and with that the Sanctuary moon has no ingame usage?

 

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6 hours ago, Leppard said:

If they decide to do a full wipe they brake what they promised - i never would have invested hundreds of euros und hundreds of hours in a so called "persistent" game, that may be wiped. It's a not funny definition of "persistent".

There is _no_ guarantee given that there would never be a full wipe again and NQ did not suggested as much.

 

It is fair to argue that with taking payments you pretty much close that door unless you have no other options, which actually is _exactly_ what NQ has always said

First off, being a persistent game does not in any way exclude a ipe of any kind any time prior to the game being officially released. the two have nothing to do with each other so that argument is void.

 

You are an Alpha backer which means your access at the moment is a perk, a benefit. You preordered gametime which is going to be valid from the moment the game releases, as a benefit you were given access to the game prior to release at no extra cost. So effectively, you are currently playing for free. And there goes that argument

You spent many hundreds of hours in game. Well that's fair enough and so it is entirely reasonable that that time spent (and for people who subscribed the money they spent) remains rewarded which is where having talent points being returned to the pool and blueprints for constyructs you created woudl com ein to play. Just thos etwo alone will give you a _massive_ advantage over any new player on the start ofthe game post a wipe. I'd say that pretty much nullifies the argument as far as it relates to being against a wipe.

 

 

What is left is this; NQ has not committed to no wipe, they never did. It is reasonable to expect NQ has lost some of their options on a wipe once they took payment for access before official release and they will need to reward time spent in game if they wipe.

That excludes another gobal/full wipe which is really not a point of discussion here at all. As far as not wanting a partial wipe, I get that is what you or anyone wants, but it just that, a preference. NQ will not break any promises or "betray" any one on a partial wipe as decribed above.

Anything else?

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1 hour ago, Niemand said:

can we just permabann these "i payed for no wipe" ppl? i mean they are so dumb it hurts reading their shit.

 

18 hours ago, Megabosslord said:

(1:30) the reason for a wipe would be "(there is) something that we need to fix and there is no other but to wipe to fix it. I don't see anything like that coming... it's something that would happen if we really had no choice..."

(4:45) "we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOp9nDzkxpc

(58:26) "there would be a gold rush to get back to whatever you wanted. That's actually not a good idea. We decided that we would rather not do that. There has already been a lot of investment made by a lot of people to terraform very very substantial parts of the planets... It would be a very bad thing to say 'sorry guys, restart from scratch.'" And that was just on a terrain wipe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai3Kk37ntgg

(15:53) "Everything you build is forever"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD00-V_LKog

(31:58) "Whatever you do after beta starts is going to stay in one way or another... You will get what we call for the moment 'magic blueprints'... blueprints with everything included in it so you will be able to respawn the things as soon as we restart the server. So we don't like to call it 'wipe'... The key thing is the beta is really the start... You can start to invest yourself in the game. We guarantee that you're not going to be losing everything at some point... the universe is blank again, and you have to start from scratch."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syku-NmSg4s&t=1918s

There you go buddy. 

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full wipe with players being able to keep the blueprints in their inventory. 

and this is coming from a vetaran player with almost 1bil quanta and another 2-3 bil in assets.

 

before you would do a wipe, consider the following:

 

*dont do anything with the schematics system except making the basic part schematics free. That would be a good idea I think. We need scehmatics otherwise we will run into the same problem as before that eveyone is making everything.

*do something with the mission system so players with 20 alts can't run the same missions anymore. Also, introduce more challanging/rewarding missions.

*auto-miners extract too much I beleive. 

*prices of schematics should be dynamic depending on how much money is in circulation. Keep the current prices as a minimum, but increase them if the quanta passes the 100bil threshold for example.

 

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21 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

You can see this in these forum responses.  There are a lot of "I don't want to lose my schematics" and "What's wrong with schematics anyway" types of posts, but where are the "Yes!  I've been waiting for this to happen for a long time and will definitely start playing again if you wipe+delete schematics" ones?  They're not there because those people aren't even on the forum any more.  They're gone.  And by and large they aren't coming back.

 

Not gone, just waiting for the blasted wipe...  wipe without schematics, or at least schematics as currently defined, is a BIG plus for me.  Actually got me excited enough to relaunch the game for the first time in many, many, months just to check in.

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57 minutes ago, Doombad said:

 

There you go buddy. 

 

Nowhere in that statement does JC commit to a no wipe. In the context of the actual conversation he is saying that post beta NQ would not do another global/full wipe unles they really have to, which was and still is exactly what they are saying on a full wipe. This does not at all relate to or reference partial wipes which have always been very much on the tabel with the sidenote of keeping BPs and talentpoints.

Big problem here is that NQ is really muddying the water and making this more difficuylt that it has to be. Yes it woudl make sense to hnot have another global wipe like we had pre beta, absolutely. At the same time, it makes perfect sense if NQ decides to wipe the world, put talent points back in the pool and give you blueprints for all constructs you created.

I really see no argument against that wipe happening at all. It maintains the advantage existing players have and also provides a good baseline for new players to enter the game.

I;ve said it before, at the start of beta (and in the press release mentioning it) NQ was referncing the wipe they did pre beta, such a wipe wil not happen again yes..

 

 

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All I can say at this stage, is that my impression of NQ is now at an all time low. Which is almost impressive when you consider how low my confidence in them already was, and has been for a good while now.

 

And even if they somehow manage to attract hordes of new players at release, I have very little faith in NQ as a company being able to manage and maintain a functional MMO.

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I have no issue with a wipe. And agree to get the new planet tech is required for the game to launch. 

1. Please let us know and test what is going to come to replace schematics.

2. I have almost 80 million in talent points and would really like to keep them.

3. Money can be earned all over again.

4. We need more game loops to occupy people.

5. When is comes to constructs and magic BPs. It would be nice to have, maybe without elements so we don't have an unfair advantage.

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

 

Nowhere in that statement does JC commit to a no wipe. In the context of the actual conversation he is saying that post beta NQ would not do another global/full wipe unles they really have to, which was and still is exactly what they are saying on a full wipe.

"we're going to do everything we can so that we don't have to go through a wipe again" is the message they pushed at Beta launch. Imho the flat text doesn't do justice to how much a full wipe at launch would be very unlikely, even their (streaming)partners pushed this message. (For everyone that was new to DU atleast.)

 

This is imho the reason why DU suddenly became so popular over night with a certain (streaming) crowd. And also imho they don't seem to have done everything they could do, it almost seems that they did everything they did to do a full wipe at 'release'. I see that as misleading at best and false advertising at worst. In business terms I would call it improper management, and with the large turn around of CEOs, I might not be the only one.

 

I'm also of mind that NQ has other options then a complete wipe. Reimbursing people for Schematics would make quanta pretty worthless overnight. What NQ could do is convert that quanta to loyalty points for example, with that you could buy certain things that are not directly in game, like skins for elements, characters, pets... Or even game time (sure that cost NQ money, but the f-upped). You could even limit every character to a max of 100M quanta, everything above that at date/time x is converted to loyalty points. Folks that exploited bugs (doubling items for example) in the past should be punished and the exploited product removed without refund. People that used unbalanced game mechanics can't be blamed for the faults NQ made, but you only get refunded what you paid for it (so cheap Schematics only gets you back very little). A system like this will take work, but imho I would prefer this to a space market (although I like the concept)... The way NQ is doing it now is going to generate a ton of bad blood (wipe or no wipe) and that is going to seep into the new player pool (toxic).

Edited by Cergorach
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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

I really see no argument against that wipe happening at all.

That's your opinion, mine is: there is no valid argument for a wipe, not even a partial, because a wipe does not solve a single problem with the game in the current state, including the next Athena patch.

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Wipe Whole or not at all. But not without changes!

 

NQ has made many wrong decisions in my eyes.

 

- Mining units: way too much ore, no need to fly to asteroids anymore.  In my opinion the system with meganodes was the better one. You could have ressettet the tiles after a time, of course without restoring the meganodes. Then the tunnels would have been gone too. And you could have let asteroids fall on planets by chance every month, so that new meganodes are created and a new scan is worthwhile for everyone.

 

At least one should ban T5 ores from the planets, if not even T4. Then there would be like the one reason to fly to the asteroids.

 

-Schematics : If these are taken out of the game, I'm out. Then everyone can make everything again and there would be no more trade.

Why don't you make it so that players can make Schematics by destroying 5 T1 Schematics to be able to make a T2 Schematic? Then massive resources would be consumed and you would have to specialize.

 

-Consumption: Please finally create a consumption in the game except warpcells and fuel.
E.g. destroyed components, engines that lose their power after x hours, schematics with which you can only produce a certain number of components or similar.

 

-Player market: nice that there will be a new space market, but I would prefer a system where you pick up the stuff directly from the player and can be listed worldwide, where players can advertise their stores ingame etc..

 

-Aliencores : The first really good change, a possibility finally as ORG to do something together, even if cheaply made, honestly mining units in space? Could have been better sold, and the T5 ores..well could have been replaced by something else.

 

- Missions: also a good change, although the solution is not exactly the best, I would have liked a system like in Archee Age better, so everyone flies his own mission and a collaboration, is no longer necessary.

 

Just My 2 Cents

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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3 hours ago, Pleione said:

 

Not gone, just waiting for the blasted wipe...  wipe without schematics, or at least schematics as currently defined, is a BIG plus for me.  Actually got me excited enough to relaunch the game for the first time in many, many, months just to check in.

Cool and welcome back!  I hope there are a lot more of you, having a more people playing would fix a lot of things.

 

Yours is the only reply like this I've seen.  I hope more speak up.

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TL;DR:
1) Don't remove schematics.
2) I'd prefer to NOT wipe


1) Schematics:
Schematics are one of the best things ever added to the game.

  • The market basically didn't exist until the addition of schematics. The market is thriving specifically because schematics exist.
  • One of the core ideas for DU from the very beginning was to have role differentiation; schematics push players to specialize their factories - which, in turn, leads to the aforementioned thriving market.
  • Longevity. Schematics take time to acquire. Without them, some players would reach "endgame" within a couple months, get bored, and leave. Schematics add that longevity that an MMO desperately needs.
  • Travel, or "exploration"; schematics require a player to travel to distance planets to obtain, encouraging them to play the game - the space travel adventure - instead of sitting in their solo base all day.

Don't remove schematics, not unless you have something better that fills the role.


2) Thoughts on a Wipe:
Pros:

  • Fresh start.
  • Easy way to address longstanding "ill-gotten gains"
  • Level[ish] playing field for all players.

Cons:

  • Destruction of a thriving, mature economy.
  • Crushing of older, avid players' hopes and dreams (and time and effort)
  • As others have pointed out, there have been numerous NQ comments throughout the beta phase strongly implying that there will be no wipe. Backtracking on those will be seen in a very bad light.

I kind of have always anticipated a wipe before release, because I see the game as changing and evolving, and "cleaning house" before release just makes sense. I've started over many times since pre-alpha, I can do so again. It won't bother me. But the majority of players that I play with and interact with regularly have far more at stake than I do. Several of them won't come back if there's a wipe. Some of them are on hiatus until this is confirmed - one way or the other - because as it stands, it's not worth it to them spending any more time or money if it's just going to be wiped.

A strong, mature economy is a core part of DU right now, obliterating that will have serious consequences to the ultimate success of the game. As long as schematics remain, that economy should rebuild fairly quickly after a wipe. Without schematics... there won't be much of an economy and new players won't stick around. DU will have lost many longtime veterans to the wipe, and left a world empty and deserted for the new players, who will also leave.

 

Schematics need to stay. Unless they can be replaced by something equally important to the economy and longevity of the game.
And if that's the main reason for wanting to wipe... it's a colossally bad idea. Probably the death nail for the game.

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15 hours ago, AbnRanger375 said:

I've been playing daily since the days of NQs NDAs.  Yeah, I have some talent points too but they've been zeroed a few times already.  Please, everyone, stop crying because you're too lazy to "rebuild again".  If you've been around long enough you'd already know it isn't THAT big of a deal.

 

FULL WIPE!!!!!

Talent Points (16Apr22).png

This

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