Jump to content

Give us more ore & asteroids - less taxes! (Demeter Changes)


BlindingBright
 Share

Recommended Posts

Been on PTS now for 15 hours testing while collecting my thoughts. A lot of these changes will force players to /work/ to keep what they own in game... right now with rough calculations it looks like about /half/ of the ore dug may have to go back to paying taxes on the tiles, and thus players will need to work... to keep their land... to keep working to keep their land.

I say work, because these new loops, for many- will turn it into active work/tedium to manage. Plus, potentially half of your ore income is spent on the hexes... now you'll need to take a cut for fuel to transport/logistics. After the end of it, you're left with very little to build/expand with. For new players, it will be muuuuch harder to solo while getting a foot-hold.

So I ask, is this a move to slow players down and reduce overall server costs? As it stands this a soft-wipe of sorts, as many with "fun" projects people work on a few hours a week may now be forced into grinding to keep it going- or loose it... and if players don't come back, as it stands... you loose a tile, as it is on PTS... you also loose all the static constructs owned on that tile. 

So is this a change to reduce quanta/inflation? if so than look at the source, missions-alt runners to curb it vs creating a huge sink via land. Is this change for... data inflation? as more ore enters the game, more constructs are made- and in live(more data due to tunnels on top of that)  so more ore = data costs.  And I dare say this is the real reason for these changes, otherwise NQ will let up on them as player outrage seams to be more so than 0.23, and it hasn't fully sunk in yet for most players what these changes even mean... and while this post covers some core issues, it does not cover the ninja-changes to ship elements/flight mechanics or other core complaints.

 

  1. Give us more ore via auto-mining - more charges, more ore to pull from per hex and... some way to skip the lame mini game.. please? minimum efficiency of 25% vs 0? Nobody wants to login once/twice a day to hop around auto-mining fields to play a stupid mini game. Least while mining traditionally I can tune out and watch Netflix, with autominers- it requires just enough attention you cant let your mind easily wander... but not enough satisfaction to make it.... enjoyable. 2x more ore may not be enough, 3-4x may hit a sweet spot for most.
  2. More Roids - All safe zone roids get mined out within an hour of discovery already. fix discovery timer of 20 minutes/middle Colum! Likewise, PTS seemingly won't spawn in asteroids in time for us to check the new spawn rates.... This change will /encourage/ more people into PVP space.
  3. Lower the taxes for tiles. This is a game that people pay monthly for- not a second job. 
     

So say we all.

BlindingBright
-MTI Superlegate, Lodestar Chancellor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Total agree. A rough calculation tells me : the game is NOT fun anymore. So why should I pay for it ? These game mechanics would be ok (and expected) for a free to play game. But here I am paying real money. And what do I get ? I was used to bring home 100 to 200 kilo liters of ore PER DAY. What NQ gives me now is a fraction of that. They hinder my progress. They slow me down. This is the opposite of fun. Who is doing game design at NQ ? You want players in your game ? Then motivate them. I can not see motivation here. Its the 0.23 desaster happening again.

 

Some detailed problems :

- demeter will cut me off T3/T4/T5 supply. I would be forced to do PvP asteroid mining to have access.

- Scans are listing T2 but it is by far to rare. I have detailed maps on the old ore distribution around my base. Demeter is practically removing T2 from the surface. It is quite rare in only a few spots.

- Ore yield is simply off by a factor of 10 AT LEAST. who on earth designed that ? Any stupid guy doing surface mining is faster by several mangitudes ...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed. While I am trying to establish alternative income means, the overall projected changes would impact me as well, because it would indirectly devalue my art-based income simply because most players would not be able to afford paying fair amounts for my art.

Playing a game should not be equal to working in that game.

The Demeter changes mean, by and large, that the direction the game is going contradicts the selling points of the game itself: the ability to build large and expand. not sure what the planning behind is aiming towards, but it's not good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agreed with your points.

 

In addition the need for a different mining unit per tier of ore is also crazy and again a massive time and money sink.  If it's to push people to PvP (which is broken) then say so !.  But why make things so complex and just have one unit that can be placed anywhere.

 

Secondly on asteroids if a roid is discovered but not broadcast then remove the ability for someone who already completes to phase 4 to just jump the person who lands on the roif.  I think originally it was supposed to be a timer until your 'found' via a broadcast.  At least thst gives people sometime to mine ;).

 

Airbrake changes no no and no.  Most my constructs are booked why change it now ?

 

Lastly voxel changes for complex voxels so back to boring boxes? Seems you can hit thst number quickly.

 

Come on NQ think hard on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TL;DR: People paying for a game shouldn't lose their hard work with a monthly in-game tax. Change the mechanic so that they only lose rights management of the territory, or the territory becomes locked or something until the pay the debt. Loss of territory and especially constructs for paying players should be through PVP or subscription cancellation only. Also, agree with need to change auto-miner efficiency and minigame, it should be once or twice a week, not twice a day.

 

----------------

 

Yeah, I say this as a member of the military; sometimes people either can't play your game for IRL reasons, or just need a break. Either way, if they are paying their active sub (or have a beta key for the time being) then there should not really be any monthly tax for things they own to not disappear on them.

 

If NQ went to a free to play with premium sub model this would make sense. Tax the free to play players, who can also buy periodic funds through DAC selling, premium "subbed (& beta key for now)" players don't get taxed (maybe even limit this to 10 or 20 tiles, I don't know). If I have a 6 month deployment I'm okay paying for 6 months of sub to keep my stuff, I always expected that with this game. Now you're telling me that I also need to amass funds to keep the tiles safe while I'm gone, awesome.

 

If you are intent on taxing paying players, I would suggest adopting a system where they lose the ability to grant rights on their tiles when they're in default and must pay all outstanding tax to be able to do things on their territory again. Removal of someone's constructs and territory, who is paying for the game, should only happen through them cancelling their subscription (or territory warfare obviously). I really want to see DU become something great, but the implementation of this mechanic  on people who are paying (or previously paid a substantial amount) to enjoy your game is going to push those people funding your game away from you.

 

Further on the enjoyment aspect, mini-game and efficiency should last a week, or 3 days, or something much more reasonable than needing to hop on twice a day and go to every auto-miner and recycle it. I flat out don't have the time or the care in the world to do that twice a day, and I imagine many other won't either. On top of the massive drop to the amount of ore that will be feeding the economy, even if every miner switched to auto-mining, there will now be a large portion of your previous miners who have no interest in "mining" anymore. The builders will build, the mission runners will run, the pirates will pirate, but the DU economy will be in for a shock when no one is selling hematite anymore.

 

NQ, please reconsider the balance to the changes you are about to implement.

 

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I Completely agree with this posting and also to Starstellars response above. Some of these changes need to be tweaked with the above points in consideration. To add some context my Org Dark Star Imperium's member base is majority active and prior military, those of us that haven't left after .23 have been around since the games initial pre-alpha launch and are pretty much exclusively now on the fence about even staying if no consideration it taken on this. We lost hundreds of players with the .23 changes. .23 is something everyone has experienced, nor can deny that this has the potential to be on par with the previous update armageddon. DSI would be able to survive these changes as an established org of our size and knowledge, Yet we can't say we would enjoy a game that is simply just a grind that will get in the way of any actual enjoyment of the game. 

 

NQ, we at DSI implore you to take into consideration the points outlined above by Blinding bright and Starstellar.

 

Thank you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i agree as well. I also believe although asteroids are a viable ore source as well as a viable pvp generator, at the same time right now the whole demographic is set up so any good safe zone roids are mined instantly, and the non safe zone higher tier are all blanketed by space roaches. why cant the non safe zone roids be further from warp pipes and safe zones so people can actually mine them before 12 roaches show up like clockwork? why cant we have more, so many in fact that a group of 20 people cannot monitor them all, I understand that pvp is a player generator, but at the cost of all your pve players it is not sustainable to not have options for non pvp and getting the same stuff, the trail of dead MMO's is long with pvp games that only "catered" to the pvp crowd. After all this is a game not a 2nd or 3rd job. if its not fun and or seemingly fair you can bet people will leave to something that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with the above comments. Lets do some quick math. One scan I have on Madis Shows 148L/h of Bauxite. That's only 24864L every 7 days. That's enough ore to run 1 refiner for 43 cycles. If you look at the whole scan. Its a total of 24864L Bauxite, 8064L Hematite, 48048 Coal, and 8232 Quartz every 7 days. I would have to generate 142858 quanta a day to pay the taxes on this tile, not to mention having to handle the cost of transporting the ore to sell it. The ore quantities are to low to try and produce anything to generate the income. These numbers are based off 100% efficiency. In order to obtain 100% efficiency one would have to only run a couple of miners and login multiple times a day to babysit. Please reconsider what you intend to do with this update. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Agree on all points.

The mini-game for auto miners is the 'worst' loop ever. I will literally leave alts on worlds. Log in and use my charges, then log off. See you later when my charges are back.

 

As long as the ore your taking is being replaced. Either via miner outputs, or SZ roid spawns (t1-3 in this reference the same ore that's currently on planets in SZ) then we should be fine.



I don't think NQ wants us to just log in and log off non stop? (yes missions are the exact same loop)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  1. Give us more ore via auto-mining - The more I read on the math of this the more I think it may work as is, you just have to run a 30-40 hex farm to make it viable and hope prices of ore stay elevated.
  2. More Roids - Agree, and spawning times need to be random
  3. Lower the taxes for tiles. Agree - but it is worse than that, the claiming of hexes will actually be a game breaking mechanic. It will be too cheap to put down TUs, I could put down 200 right off the bat, scan for the best hexes later and dump the ones not worth mining, making it sucky for any new player trying to find a decent hex to mine. There needs to be a reasonable limit of claimable hexes per person or org, and hundreds is probably too high.  Of course, this is all moot if the high taxes break the game on the other end.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ya after mining countless mega nodes to rebuild back after the schematic patch, not only for myself but other orgs, what is currently comming out of the auto miners is depressing. I fully agree with BlindingBright on this. Furthermore as it stands, Legion rules space with almost impunity, and being that the majority of asteroids are in PvP space (and the best ones at that) they only stand to get richer and more powerful and the poor, even more so.  Legion, an org that has been proven exploiters seems to get away with it while in the past other selective orgs have been disbanded by NQ for far less. Now that im done bitching and venting, now my thoughts on how to fix it.. 

 

-Increase the number of asteroids in safe space. Offer common, uncommon and a few advanced for players to build up the resources and ships needed to venture out into PvP space with weapons and engines necessary to deal with possible threats like Legion.

 

-Increase the amount of resources by x3 maybe even x4 for auto mines as if I said that it was a "drop in the bucket" compared to what we can currently do, it would be an insult to the drop.

 

-Make xs,s,m core ships more viable for PvP. The current meta is using an L core with a remote control allowing the pilot to shoot and fly at the same time. That is broken. L core ships, are to be piloted by CREWS of people as we were led to believe. Possibly nerf max speed of L cores to 25000 instead of 30000 to allow smaller cores to flee? Alot of Legion ships have exotic L Lasers and rare engines, making it impossible to get up on them as we can be kited and shot. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The changes you propose will actively make the game worse. It shows you do not understand the need behind them.

 

Making the minimum efficiency 25% means that the optimal play is to not play the minigame at all, simply claim more tiles. The current limitations on calibration charges mean an account can support 36 autominers, which when combined with adjacency bonuses are best spread over a small group of 7 tiles. Putting a minimum efficiency floor means that an account can now use as many as it wants. This will result in entire sections of planets and moons being owned by the same person, who are using the 25% floor to pay for everything. This will additionally be exacerbated by your request for lower taxes. If the 25% floor can pay for the taxes of the tile, the whole system explodes. The entire game becomes a landgrab, and every tile will be claimed in short order.

 

As for adding more ore, that is simply not required. An account managing 36 autominers on a good set of tiles can net ~150kL of ore of various tiers per day. For some players who mine meganodes constantly that seems like very little, but for the majority of players who do not mine, this is 150kL more ore in the economy for each of them. Keep in mind that this can be maintained with only a 10m/day minigame, while you actively mine asteroids as well. This is not the only source of ore.

 

As for complaints about the majority of asteroids being in the pvp zone, you do have another option. NQ said they are adding more safe zone asteroids, so now you simply need to race to them when they spawn. Additionally, half the pvp asteroids on any given week go completely undiscovered, and those that are discovered rarely have anything below t4 mined out of them. There is plenty of ore on these asteroids for those who are organized, driven, and ready to take the risk for the greater reward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, Nayropux said:

As for complaints about the majority of asteroids being in the pvp zone, you do have another option. NQ said they are adding more safe zone asteroids, so now you simply need to race to them when they spawn. Additionally, half the pvp asteroids on any given week go completely undiscovered, and those that are discovered rarely have anything below t4 mined out of them. There is plenty of ore on these asteroids for those who are organized, driven, and ready to take the risk for the greater reward.


K, So - by your logic. Race to all the PvE Asteroids when they spawn. Don't worry about work, family, or other obligations. Sit ready, with DSAT in hand, scanning the universe and waiting for a node to pop up, so that you have a chance of getting ore before it's mined out. But if you can't do that, it's okay, because you can go back planet side and play aforementioned annoying mini-game in hopes that you squeeze out a tidbit more ore, which by the way, you'll need to sell most of it to keep up on the tile upkeep, since you are going to be needing so many claimed tiles. Now, that's not including the cost of the mining units, whatever that may be. Basics will likely be cheap, just like engines and other elements, but each level you go up you are investing more and more quanta to mine a slightly more expensive selling ore. But of course, you are going to need to buy more tiles. Let's say okay, it's viable to do. Let's go with your logic. 

There are 20 different ores you can mine. So at minimum, you are going to need to have 20 mining units, just to mine a bit of each ore. 

Which will require you, if you are lucky, to only have to mine on what, 7 different planets/moons with well thought out tiles and good ore values that cover everything you can get on that planet. Though most planets for a good ore value, you'd probably need a few different locations. But let's stick with 7 is a lucky number.

To get the max benefit for the mining unit on that tile, you'll need all the tiles around it. So 7 planets, 7 tiles per planet. Unless math fails me, that's 42 tiles. So 42 million a week just to mine every single ore in the game efficiently, with just 20 mining units digging out 1 kind of ore each at a rate of 100-150ish/l per hr if you are lucky. and have talents etc. Maybe a bit higher. We'll go on a optimistic median though end and say you are getting 150 l/hr. That's 3.6kl per day, per ore, or 25kl per ore, per week. I can literally mine 25kl of ore by flying out to a random tile, use my scanner, and spend 20-30 minutes mining.  A weeks worth of auto-ore, in the time it would take to VR to all the different planets and play that god-awful mini-game, every two days, 20 times,  to make sure I can pull the same amount of ore out of the ground, as if I were mining it by hand. 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding - But how is this a change for the better, when ore prices are already sky-high while it's easy to mine to the ore in greater quantities then autominers will allow?

So we are back to the Asteroids, and praying that you happen to be on the right time that one of the maybe 20 safe zone asteroids spawn, and have time to make it to one before it is mined out. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Xarius said:

K, So - by your logic. Race to all the PvE Asteroids when they spawn. Don't worry about work, family, or other obligations. Sit ready, with DSAT in hand, scanning the universe and waiting for a node to pop up, so that you have a chance of getting ore before it's mined out. But if you can't do that, it's okay, because you can go back planet side and play aforementioned annoying mini-game in hopes that you squeeze out a tidbit more ore, which by the way, you'll need to sell most of it to keep up on the tile upkeep, since you are going to be needing so many claimed tiles. Now, that's not including the cost of the mining units, whatever that may be. Basics will likely be cheap, just like engines and other elements, but each level you go up you are investing more and more quanta to mine a slightly more expensive selling ore. But of course, you are going to need to buy more tiles. Let's say okay, it's viable to do. Let's go with your logic. 

There are 20 different ores you can mine. So at minimum, you are going to need to have 20 mining units, just to mine a bit of each ore. 

Which will require you, if you are lucky, to only have to mine on what, 7 different planets/moons with well thought out tiles and good ore values that cover everything you can get on that planet. Though most planets for a good ore value, you'd probably need a few different locations. But let's stick with 7 is a lucky number.

To get the max benefit for the mining unit on that tile, you'll need all the tiles around it. So 7 planets, 7 tiles per planet. Unless math fails me, that's 42 tiles. So 42 million a week just to mine every single ore in the game efficiently, with just 20 mining units digging out 1 kind of ore each at a rate of 100-150ish/l per hr if you are lucky. and have talents etc. Maybe a bit higher. We'll go on a optimistic median though end and say you are getting 150 l/hr. That's 3.6kl per day, per ore, or 25kl per ore, per week. I can literally mine 25kl of ore by flying out to a random tile, use my scanner, and spend 20-30 minutes mining.  A weeks worth of auto-ore, in the time it would take to VR to all the different planets and play that god-awful mini-game, every two days, 20 times,  to make sure I can pull the same amount of ore out of the ground, as if I were mining it by hand. 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding - But how is this a change for the better, when ore prices are already sky-high while it's easy to mine to the ore in greater quantities then autominers will allow?

So we are back to the Asteroids, and praying that you happen to be on the right time that one of the maybe 20 safe zone asteroids spawn, and have time to make it to one before it is mined out. 

 

I don't think you understand how autominers are meant to be used, or the math involved. There is simply a ton of inaccurate information in this post. Here is a simplified, but illustrative, example: you claim 7 tiles in a clump on alioth, and fully mine them out with your allotment of autominers (400-500l average per tile on many planets, 7 tiles with 100l/auto miner, is 28-35 autominers, so near the cap of one account). Using the numbers from Gottchar's thread, you would mine ~150kL assorted ore a day, or ~1ML a week, with this setup. At current prices, even if you were only mining T1, this is close to 100M quanta a week, for 7M a week in taxes. This is not "selling all of it for upkeep", it's 7%. You can use the other 93% of pure profit to buy any other ore you desire off the market, or head to an asteroid when you have the time.

 

All of this for a few minutes a day doing the dumb minigame, which you can VR to. This does not require hopping around to every planet to do the minigame, nor does it cost 42M per week.

 

In your complaint about needed to be around all day on Saturday to race to PvE asteroids, you completely glossed over the fact that most PvP asteroids go completely undiscovered and unmined the entire week. These are available for you to mine at literally any time you desire. If you do not want to PvP that is fine, you can join up with a group who do. If you still do not want to take the risk, that is also fine, there is a giant safe zone to still have fun in, but giving up the greater rewards of PvP asteroids is a result of that choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Nayropux said:

 

I don't think you understand how autominers are meant to be used, or the math involved. There is simply a ton of inaccurate information in this post. Here is a simplified, but illustrative, example: you claim 7 tiles in a clump on alioth, and fully mine them out with your allotment of autominers (400-500l average per tile on many planets, 7 tiles with 100l/auto miner, is 28-35 autominers, so near the cap of one account). Using the numbers from Gottchar's thread, you would mine ~150kL assorted ore a day, or ~1ML a week, with this setup. At current prices, even if you were only mining T1, this is close to 100M quanta a week, for 7M a week in taxes. This is not "selling all of it for upkeep", it's 7%. You can use the other 93% of pure profit to buy any other ore you desire off the market, or head to an asteroid when you have the time.

 

All of this for a few minutes a day doing the dumb minigame, which you can VR to. This does not require hopping around to every planet to do the minigame, nor does it cost 42M per week.

 

In your complaint about needed to be around all day on Saturday to race to PvE asteroids, you completely glossed over the fact that most PvP asteroids go completely undiscovered and unmined the entire week. These are available for you to mine at literally any time you desire. If you do not want to PvP that is fine, you can join up with a group who do. If you still do not want to take the risk, that is also fine, there is a giant safe zone to still have fun in, but giving up the greater rewards of PvP asteroids is a result of that choice.

Firstly, if you read my reply completely, you missed the point entirely or there is a failure of comprehension. 

It was under the scenario that you wanted to mine every single ore, which many people with factories will need to do. For max efficiency, you need the surrounding tiles claimed also.  If you are lucky enough to get tiles with all the ores you need, you could probably find them in as few as 7 planets. 

I was not talking about Bulk mining a single tile, so your illustrative example has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

You state the intended use. I will correct that for you. "The way they want you to use them.".

Now on to Asteroids.

Yes, not going into PvP for Asteroids is definitely a choice. A choice that is being taken away by the ability to mine ALL the ores, not just the ores on ONE TILE, effectively.

So please, don't try to push my point into your narrative.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Xarius said:

Firstly, if you read my reply completely, you missed the point entirely or there is a failure of comprehension. 

It was under the scenario that you wanted to mine every single ore, which many people with factories will need to do. For max efficiency, you need the surrounding tiles claimed also.  If you are lucky enough to get tiles with all the ores you need, you could probably find them in as few as 7 planets. 

I was not talking about Bulk mining a single tile, so your illustrative example has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

You state the intended use. I will correct that for you. "The way they want you to use them.".

Now on to Asteroids.

Yes, not going into PvP for Asteroids is definitely a choice. A choice that is being taken away by the ability to mine ALL the ores, not just the ores on ONE TILE, effectively.

So please, don't try to push my point into your narrative.

 

I think you should look up the definition of intended.

 

Yes, spot mining single tiles is expensive, because that is not the intended use of autominers. If you want to do that, you are able to, but it is inefficient and comes as at a cost. It's like having the option of using a giant fuel guzzling L core to move a single container around; you can do it, but it isn't advised. You do not need to personally mine an ore to put it in your factory; you can buy the ore from others.

 

You've not explained why the choice to go to PvP asteroids is taken away or forced. The market gives you access to every ore in the game, and efficient use of autominers gives you ample quanta with which to purchase it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Nayropux said:

 

I think you should look up the definition of intended.

 

Yes, spot mining single tiles is expensive, because that is not the intended use of autominers. If you want to do that, you are able to, but it is inefficient and comes as at a cost. It's like having the option of using a giant fuel guzzling L core to move a single container around; you can do it, but it isn't advised. You do not need to personally mine an ore to put it in your factory; you can buy the ore from others.

 

You've not explained why the choice to go to PvP asteroids is taken away or forced. The market gives you access to every ore in the game, and efficient use of autominers gives you ample quanta with which to purchase it.

 

Okay, lets go step by step. Try to keep up.

You said "As for complaints about the majority of asteroids being in the pvp zone, you do have another option. NQ said they are adding more safe zone asteroids, so now you simply need to race to them when they spawn."

I said " Race to all the PvE Asteroids when they spawn. Don't worry about work, family, or other obligations. Sit ready, with DSAT in hand, scanning the universe and waiting for a node to pop up, so that you have a chance of getting ore before it's mined out."

To which you replied "n your complaint about needed to be around all day on Saturday to race to PvE asteroids, you completely glossed over the fact that most PvP asteroids go completely undiscovered and unmined the entire week."

So your entire point in that is, If you don't like, go into the PvP Zone. Kinda sounds like you want to force people to go into PvP to be able to mine what they need.

Now lets talk about buying the ore off Markets. 

It's overly expensive, and there is not going to be any kind of equivalent 
exchange between the ore you mine and sell and the ore you need to buy. You talked about mining out a single slab of hexes in an efficient way.  Okay. Let's use the one I provided in the attached screenshot, and let's pretend it's the best values I have been able to find. You efficiently mine all that ore. 

Let's pretend and say prices don't inflate when ore becomes less scarce to keep it simple and people start to horde what they have stocked up because of lower ore yields.

Right now Hematite sells for about 116/l
Bauxite sells for about 110/l

Going to focus on those, since they are the highest values on the hex. 

I need Acanthite for my factory. It is currently selling for 999/l

So I would roughly need to sell 7-9 liters of Hematite and Bauxite per 1 liter of Acanthite. 

I also need Columbite, which sells for 2300/l - That's almost 20/l of Hematite per 1 liter of Columbite. 

As opposed to being able to just go mine what I need now, you are telling me I need to sell the other ores I need that I can mine, to buy the ores I also need and I am not mining, and if that is not good enough, well I can mine Asteroids. If I can't find any in PvE space, well, guess I need to go into PvP Space?

So if I cut out asteroid mining, what do I do to make up for the huge difference I need to make up in prices, including the territory rent on 7 hexes to efficiently mine those two resources? All that is left is Mission Running, which I am sure you know, to do efficiently, also takes you through PvP Space.


So we are back to feeling like you are being forced into PvP Space - because the ability to be self sufficient and mine what you need is being taken away, or as you said, don't do what they "Intend" and inefficiently mine as my earlier point indicated.

You can talk circles around how terrible this is all you want, but no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it is still a pig. 

6d4caef2f7c396617f8277376cbc19e5.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Xarius said:

So your entire point in that is, If you don't like, go into the PvP Zone.

 

Yes, that is my point. PvP is a core part of the game. You can choose to not do it, but by doing so you lose out on the benefits. Just like if I choose to not mine, set up industry, or build and sell ships, I lose out on those benefits.

 

The game is 100% playable without entering the PvP zone; in fact most of the content is in the safe zone. You have access to every ore and item through the market, and the ability to make enough quanta to purchase them. Will it be as fast? No, but it shouldn't be as fast. This post, and thread, is just another thinly veiled complaint about how you are unable to get the benefits of PvP without PvPing. That is working as intended, in my opinion.

 

As an aside, you should definitely look harder. There are nodes with hundreds of acanthine per hour on them. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...