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So after 4 months...the game got really boring!


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The game has not changed much since some alpha version a d NOW you conclude it's boring after 4 months? Been that way for at least 2 years xD 

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There's a wide range of what 'indie studio' really means. People talk about 'III' (triple-I) studios to distinguish between well-funded studios with some AAA experience and "actual" indies with little

1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

I often see quotes like this talking about some nebulous cloud of white knights.... Using super-generalistic phrases such as "the community," or "everyone" when it was likely just a couple of people with a different opinion.

 

The rat tail goes on longer than the generalisation, as I am not a big fan of it. However, I can't elaborate on one point because I am under ATV NDA.

 

But the point is this - if you don't get confirmation in your organisation (I'm talking about the big orgs here), on the forum, meme server, or anywhere else, and you stand alone with a handful of people, then you have the community against you - because the people who don't comment on it - but read it anyway - agree with the majority with their silence.

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They are not adding enough features.  How many features have they added in the past year? Pretty sure I could count them on one hand, if they were spectacular enough to remember in the first place.  They need to start releasing new features. Every month a batch of new features should roll out.  I would even go as far as make it so the first thursday of every month you released a new feature. 

 

If you put it on a set time like that everyone thats watching on the shadows will check back every first thursday to see if its something new that wants to bring them back to the game. 

 

Becasue right now, while you guys are releasing allot of patches. they are all backend patches fixing, bugs, lowering server costs, If I was using this software for my company the patches would look great. However I am not using this software for my company I am a gamer. and while I do like to see bug fixes on the list, or new skins. Not seeing any new things to go play with, or new things to go explore new things to build. 

 

Especially when I compare it to other games with smaller teams. that are releasing allot more game content then you guys. Hell there are even people who have released free mods to games that have more content in them then your teams have done in the last year. And I keep hearing you are working on this, you are working on that. And its to the point where I feel you are stringing me along. And until I start seeing actual content put into the game I think I am going to step back a little. 

 

I dont know what the problem is on your side. But maybe you need to fire some under performers?  Plenty of people out there looking for work. And the best part is they can all do it from home. 

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3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Having a bad day GraXXoR?

I'm having an awesome day.. Got my MSRP RTX 3080 back from repairs last week and managed to get it running... My old GTX 1080Ti is back in my secondary machine for dual boxing...

Now my card is back in my latest build, I benchmarked my new 5900X vs my original 3900X which I used since last autumn...
Currently I'm transferring over my files to my new 980 Pro 2Tb...

My business has just broken its sales and income record at the end of last month ending a dray spot that started last April and I just sold a bunch of 10,000 yen 2020 Tokyo Olympic Gold coins I bought last year which were removed from circulation because the olympics were cancelled... They fetched $1500 each....

 

Also currently rewatching all five seasons of The Expanse from Episode 1 while drinking some excellent IPA


Things are swell! Life is good.

And you?

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, SirJohn85 said:

 

The rat tail goes on longer than the generalisation, as I am not a big fan of it. However, I can't elaborate on one point because I am under ATV NDA.

 

But the point is this - if you don't get confirmation in your organisation (I'm talking about the big orgs here), on the forum, meme server, or anywhere else, and you stand alone with a handful of people, then you have the community against you - because the people who don't comment on it - but read it anyway - agree with the majority with their silence.

 

 

I'm sorry, I've read that twice but can't quite grasp what you are saying... Probably the IPA I mentioned above kicking in... Could you explain what you mean?

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49 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

I'm having an awesome day.. Got my MSRP RTX 3080 back from repairs last week and managed to get it running... My old GTX 1080Ti is back in my secondary machine for dual boxing...

...
My business has just broken its sales and income record at the end of last month ending a dray spot that started last April and I just sold a bunch of 10,000 yen 2020 Tokyo Olympic Gold coins I bought last year which were removed from circulation because the olympics were cancelled... They fetched $1500 each....

...

Also currently rewatching all five seasons of The Expanse from Episode 1 while drinking some excellent IPA


Things are swell! Life is good.

And you?

 

Congrats, Graxxor.

 

I worked with a company that spent some good money to become an official sponsor of the team USA wrestling team to help launch a sports nutrition brand...that targeted schools and team sports. In 2020. Now that's a series of unlucky decisions; if y'all think NQ has had a rough time...it could always be worse! 😭 

 

The Expanse is pretty great -- makes me want to rewatch it, too. 

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37 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

Congrats, Graxxor.

 

I worked with a company that spent some good money to become an official sponsor of the team USA wrestling team to help launch a sports nutrition brand...that targeted schools and team sports. In 2020. Now that's a series of unlucky decisions; if y'all think NQ has had a rough time...it could always be worse! 😭 

 

The Expanse is pretty great -- makes me want to rewatch it, too. 


Yoinks.. sounds rough.  Hope you manage to make something of it this year, since the games appear to be going ahead... at least I already heard teams are on the way here.

 

I put The Expanse up there with the Battlestar Galactica reboot in terms of story arc and character development. As well as being "Hard Scifi" 

Really amazingly rewatchable series. I loved the Tom Waits inspired take on Miller... Just fabulous.. and the dynamics between Earth and Mars and the amazing, downplayed inclusivity without the typical cringe. Perhaps the only downside was the lack of decent music in The Expanse.. Galactica had All Along the Watchtower among other epic music segments...

 

Now all I'm worrying about is if Apple are going to destroy Foundation... Just rereading the books now.. Don't see how they are going to bring this to an ADHD loaded TikTok audience without eviscerating its depth. 

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On 6/4/2021 at 4:45 PM, FrigoPorco said:

I remember reading in the Devblog that NQ was working on making the game more fun. Since then, the game has not become more fun. There has been graphical improvements, but is the game more fun...NO! There is no risk vs reward, there is no 'progression'...there's no PvP. There's absolutely no PvE...and a non living world. NO PVE??? In an MMO? (nope nope, we'll leave it up to the players..), there's no NPC's...nothing. Just the players. This, was an idiotic idea. DO BETTER. I'll be back in a few updates to see where this is at. Have fun.

 

 

 

Dual Universe is a metaverse just like life we're all living in it. 

 

1616526600-image4.png

 

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8 minutes ago, rothbardian said:

 

Dual Universe is a metaverse just like life we're all living in it. 

 

1616526600-image4.png

 

 

Dual Universe is a metaverse just like Second Life is a metaverse. Only the chart here is wrong, because Second Life launched in 2003. There are products claiming to be a metaverse going back to 1993...

 

Of course, there's a big difference between calling something a metaverse and it impacting society in the same was as something like the Internet...but keep on dreamin'....

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38 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

Dual Universe is a metaverse just like Second Life is a metaverse. Only the chart here is wrong, because Second Life launched in 2003. There are products claiming to be a metaverse going back to 1993...

 

Of course, there's a big difference between calling something a metaverse and it impacting society in the same was as something like the Internet...but keep on dreamin'....

 

We need to be very patient. A lot of companies are doing experiments along these lines. We have to realize it’s going to take many attempts before we find the key combination of elements that makes it all work. Keep in mind, the web existed for almost a decade before social networks became pervasive. Even though the technology was available to make a social network in around 1995, it simply didn’t happen until somebody had the idea to do it, do it big, and do it with a certain level of quality, a decade later. We’re not just limited by technology, but by our ideas and our experimentation and how quickly we can try things. ~ Sweeney

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10 hours ago, RugesV said:

I dont know what the problem is on your side. But maybe you need to fire some under performers?  Plenty of people out there looking for work. And the best part is they can all do it from home. 

 

Working on a project like this from home is really not a benefit. And frankly, the biggest problem I see has left the company even when he meant well and had a good idea, the execution under his leadership was really sub par. The guys doing the ground work I expect are capable people, they can't deliver because there is no clear guidance and structured coming from the upper levels as that is where the people with no real idea about game development and design sit in NQ, Getting rid of that layer and putting a solid single project manager with broad authority would probably see a fairly quick turn around IF this would be given some time to get settled and set up (3-4 week). But from there I believe probably 6 months would be needed just to clear out the trash and restructure the base code base.

That means that IF NQ did the right thing I'd not expect anything ground breaking to arrive this year.

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4 hours ago, blazemonger said:

That means that IF NQ did the right thing I'd not expect anything ground breaking to arrive this year.

 

Seems like they back to rectuitment to compensate stream of run-away people.

 

2 weeks ago it was DevOps Eng (oouch), now is Level Disign Scripter (?)..

https://www.welcometothejungle.com/en/companies/novaquark/jobs/level-design-scripter_montreal

 

Overall it means (I think) Nick not closing shop yet (as some more drammatic people here suspect). Extent of painful road ahead and what changes game will experience quite unclear tho.

 

P.S.

 

Their own info on this site states they have 94 empoyees. So all this narrative about "small indie studio, that can't spare a man for anything" sounds a bit cringe.

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9 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

Their own info on this site states they have 94 empoyees. So all this narrative about "small indie studio, that can't spare a man for anything" sounds a bit cringe.

 

There was a running gag here and on discord about DU being a "small indie studio please be gentle" for a long time when the game first went to open beta.  Every time people got angrier the phrase got weirder.

"We are small indie studio, please be patient"

"We are small family restaurant, please be patient"

"We are just 2 guys with a hot dog cart, please be patient"

 

 

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On 6/9/2021 at 3:05 PM, Revelcro said:

Every time people got angrier the phrase got weirder.

 

It's also interesting to see how, as reality catches up wit the excuses, NQ tends to just all out go after the ones pretty much making the case for "the truth points to itself"..

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15 hours ago, le_souriceau said:

 

Seems like they back to rectuitment to compensate stream of run-away people.

 

2 weeks ago it was DevOps Eng (oouch), now is Level Disign Scripter (?)..

https://www.welcometothejungle.com/en/companies/novaquark/jobs/level-design-scripter_montreal

 

Overall it means (I think) Nick not closing shop yet (as some more drammatic people here suspect). Extent of painful road ahead and what changes game will experience quite unclear tho.

 

P.S.

 

Their own info on this site states they have 94 empoyees. So all this narrative about "small indie studio, that can't spare a man for anything" sounds a bit cringe.

I think this information is way out of date. This is probably more current but not the latest either: https://www.dnb.com/business-directory/company-profiles.novaquark_inc.981afa95a964419e3a26467bf4a292c7.html

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The biggest problem I have with the whole thing is that it has a jobs section on https://www.dualuniverse.game/, which in turn links to this page: https://www.welcometothejungle.com/en/companies/novaquark

 

I wouldn't call 94 employees a small indie studio tbh. Unless the numbers don't add up. And if they're not right, why not?

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There's a wide range of what 'indie studio' really means. People talk about 'III' (triple-I) studios to distinguish between well-funded studios with some AAA experience and "actual" indies with little or no budget. 

 

NQ is clearly a 'III' studio by that definition -- normal indies don't get over $20mm in investment for their first-ever project in game dev. 

 

Compared to the big players in gaming, however, almost everyone is some level of "indie studio". 

 

EA could easily throw $1 billion into a massive MMO project. Hell, they claimed $1.5 billion in income from a one-time tax benefit in 2020 alone.

 

Activision could throw a billion into a big project and it would barely dent them. They make nearly a billion in micro-transactions each quarter

 

All this being said, NQ made their bed. They decided to scope the project as they did.

 

They don't get to complain about being "so small" just because they decided to rip off a lot more than they could chew. It is their project plan!

 

They should have built the plan with their resources in mind instead of scoping it according to some dude's completely random vision -- and it was completely random, because JC had no experience in game dev. His ideas about scope are as informed as my drunk roomate when they talk about "you know what would make a great game...?" 

 

The fault is on NQ's board and investors, too. Don't throw money at random PhDs with a tech prototype and hope that it will translate to commercial success. 

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On 6/8/2021 at 4:30 PM, ShippyLongstalking said:

 

Dual Universe is a metaverse just like Second Life is a metaverse. Only the chart here is wrong, because Second Life launched in 2003. There are products claiming to be a metaverse going back to 1993...

 

Of course, there's a big difference between calling something a metaverse and it impacting society in the same was as something like the Internet...but keep on dreamin'....

The Metaverse is not a virtual space. Digital content experiences like Second Life are often seen as “proto-Metaverses” because they (A) lack game-like goals or skill systems; (B) are virtual hangouts that persist; (C) offer nearly synchronous content updates; and (D) have real humans represented by digital avatars. However, these are not sufficient attributes for the Metaverse.

 

The Metaverse, will...

 

  • Be persistent – which is to say, it never “resets” or “pauses” or “ends”, it just continues indefinitely
  • Be synchronous and live – even though pre-scheduled and self-contained events will happen, just as they do in “real life”, the Metaverse will be a living experience that exists consistently for everyone and in real time

  • Have no real cap to concurrent participations with an individual sense of “presence” – everyone can be a part of the Metaverse and participate in a specific event/place/activity together, at the same time and with individual agency

  • Be a fully functioning economy – individuals and businesses will be able to create, own, invest, sell, and be rewarded for an incredibly wide range of “work” that produces “value” that is recognized by others

  • Be an experience that spans both the digital and physical worlds, private and public networks/experiences, and open and closed platforms

  • Offer unprecedented interoperability of data, digital items/assets, content, and so on across each of these experiences – your “Counter-Strike” gun skin, for example, could also be used to decorate a gun in Fortnite, or be gifted to a friend on/through Facebook. Similarly, a car designed for Rocket League (or even for Porsche’s website) could be brought over to work in Roblox. Today, the digital world basically acts as though it were a mall where every store used its own currency, required proprietary ID cards, had proprietary units of measurement for things like shoes or calories, and different dress codes, etc.

  • Be populated by “content” and “experiences” created and operated by an incredibly wide range of contributors, some of whom are independent individuals, while others might be informally organized groups or commercially-focused enterprises

Even if the Metaverse falls short of the fantastical visions captured by science fiction authors, it is likely to produce trillions in value as a new computing platform or content medium. But in its full vision, the Metaverse becomes the gateway to most digital experiences, a key component of all physical ones, and the next great labor platform.

 

The value of being a key participant, if not a driver, of such a system is self-evident – there is no “owner” of the Internet today, but nearly all of the leading Internet companies rank among the 10 most valuable public companies on earth. And if the Metaverse does indeed serve as a functional “successor” to the web — only this time with even greater reach, time spent, and more commercial activity — there’s likely to be even more economic upside. Regardless, the Metaverse should produce the same diversity of opportunity as we saw with the web – new companies, products and services will emerge to manage everything from payment processing to identity verification, hiring, ad delivery, content creation, security, and so forth. This, in turn, will mean many present-day incumbents are likely to fall (See? Dual Universe is indeed a true metaverse. Paid-troll attacks on DU hired by big video game/MMO publishers or present-day incumbents wouldn't be a big surprise and that's exactly what we've seen in recent months if not years).

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21 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

The fault is on NQ's board and investors, too. Don't throw money at random PhDs with a tech prototype and hope that it will translate to commercial success. 

 

The problem i have with this line of thought is that if everyone followed it, we just get the same boring game over and over again.

 

At some point someone has to take a risk and try something new.

 

The only reason we are all here is because JC decided he had an idea and he wanted to make it a reality.

 

You don't get new exiting things without someone taking a risk, and trying something new.

 

Maybe it will fail.  But your options are JC's game.  Or someone else's game. 

 

Looking back with hindsight and saying you want JC to make a game, but you just want him to make a different better one, is pretty ridiculous isn't it?

 

I just want a sci fi MMO where i can build stuff that looks cool.

 

If you all have all the answers, can't one of you just knock that out real quick?

 

If i had all the answers i would have made the game by now.  So it seems like you guys are the ones who are really at fault here.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

The problem i have with this line of thought is that if everyone followed it, we just get the same boring game over and over again.

 

At some point someone has to take a risk and try something new.

 

The only reason we are all here is because JC decided he had an idea and he wanted to make it a reality.

 

You don't get new exiting things without someone taking a risk, and trying something new.

 

Maybe it will fail.  But your options are JC's game.  Or someone else's game. 

 

Looking back with hindsight and saying you want JC to make a game, but you just want him to make a different better one, is pretty ridiculous isn't it?

 

I just want a sci fi MMO where i can build stuff that looks cool.

 

If you all have all the answers, can't one of you just knock that out real quick?

 

If i had all the answers i would have made the game by now.  So it seems like you guys are the ones who are really at fault here.

 

Huh? My point here is that experienced leaders could have helped JC instead of setting him up for failure. That they could have looked at his vision compared to the resources he had and guided him to make real design choices up-front instead of playing it all by ear.

 

The "if you know so much, go do it yourself" line is really lame and a great way to not actually discuss anything I said on its merits.

 

Also, I worked in game dev for several years, so I know how hard it is. Because of experience. JC didn't -- he made an extremely, extremely, woefully common mistake most novice game devs make (too much ambition in their design). I've made the same mistake. 

 

Having some voice to say "Hey JC, temper your vision. You'll never get there with this scope" isn't folly, it's wisdom. It doesn't mean they would be forced to make some boring commercial rehashing of an existing concept...you can have novelty without re-inventing every wheel.   

 

Looking back in hindsight isn't ridiculous, it's how people learn. 

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17 minutes ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

Having some voice to say "Hey JC, temper your vision. You'll never get there with this scope" isn't folly, it's wisdom. It doesn't mean they would be forced to make some boring commercial rehashing of an existing concept...you can have novelty without re-inventing every wheel.   

 

That's what I love about Ashes of Creation:
The guy finances his own mmorpg, but has never worked on one himself. Instead, he has filled key positions with industry vets who tell him what is feasible in his mind. And the best part: He listens. And communicate with transparency.

 

Hrafnkell Oskarsson was hired as many gaming news sites mentioned that for DU: https://www.pcgamesn.com/dual-universe/dual-universe-recruits-eve-online-designer

 

Just check his public linkedin profile and look for how long the guy worked for NQ.  

 

Now we have a guy called Toni who I haven't heard from since he took over as CEO. And this is now approaching the third month.

 

Edited by SirJohn85
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3 hours ago, rothbardian said:
  • Be persistent – which is to say, it never “resets” or “pauses” or “ends”, it just continues indefinitely
  • Be synchronous and live – even though pre-scheduled and self-contained events will happen, just as they do in “real life”, the Metaverse will be a living experience that exists consistently for everyone and in real time

  • Have no real cap to concurrent participations with an individual sense of “presence”

So DU isn't a metaverse then because 1 and 3 will most likely not happen

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10 minutes ago, Lethys said:

So DU isn't a metaverse then because 1 and 3 will most likely not happen

1 will be ok with full release, 3 is already happening right now. Visit sicari 4 for more information

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23 hours ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

The fault is on NQ's board and investors, too. Don't throw money at random PhDs with a tech prototype and hope that it will translate to commercial success. 

While I understand what you are saying this is still a perfectly acceptable investment strategy if you like taking big gambles. It is how, if you get one right, you make outrageous amounts of money.

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5 minutes ago, rothbardian said:

1 will be ok with full release, 3 is already happening right now. Visit sicari 4 for more information

Lets see in 40 years if du is still running for 1. 

And lets see if 10 million players join du and how it handles those for 3. And even then, 1 and 3 will most likely fail at some point

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