Jump to content

UPDATE 1.2 ARRIVES ON DECEMBER 13TH - TACTICAL MAP, REVAMPED ASTEROIDS AND MORE


NQ-Wanderer

Recommended Posts

A few comments from someone who has always been very involved with Astros since they were on the PTS, and of course with PvP as well:

THE TACTICAL MAP:
It looks really nice, but whether it is really helpful in battle? I don't know yet, furthermore it could be possible to triangulate the posioition again via the additional information.  However, if the red/green friend/enemy identifier should also exist in the 3rd person view, I would be more than happy.


ASTEROID REWORK
Currently it is already so that everyone flies with a one-way ship on the PvP astro and makes more profit than if a large Org with a whole fleet moves out. I do not understand how you have to support that. However, I also see much more critical that the tiers are no longer displayed. There are large groups that fly out with 20-30 players including PvP ships, etc. The changes make this even more unattractive and for the individual player the question is raised, whether a large Org is even worth joining? Astros are one of the last mechanics you could do as a group event. If that is also gone and the Alien-Cors on itself let be, I see the gameplay for larger groups no longer (except you want to build a large city, etc.).

 

 

SALVAGE OPERATIONS

 

We have to see how this is implemented, but probably there are either too few places, so that at every place a PvP fleet is present, or it is simply not worth flying there. Currently, there were only a handful of wrecks that were worth finding and bringing back safely. However, if there are significantly more, the market will be flooded with them very quickly and countermeasures must be taken.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/7/2022 at 8:37 AM, Wyndle said:

If it functions the way they shopped the image it should be generic enough to avoid IP concerns.

They literally copy pasted the image from frontier’s own assets, though. Is that even legal?

 

the new map does look as though it was knocked up in illustrater by a programmer in about five minutes. 
 

it has no 3D information at all. It’s like The 1984 elite version of the radar without the functionality that made it ground breaking. 
 

TBH I want NQ get rid of the absolutely stupid Fisher Price icons on their current map/radar and give us a zoom function. 
 

teplacing it with a simple blue / orange / pink dot would be sufficient. 
 

I hope the person designed the current radar icon imomenentation/abomination is no longer working at NQ. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

You can't let a ship on a station in the PvP Area EVEN WITH A SHIELD STATION
 

BECAUSE THE SHIELD STATION ONLY PROTECTS THE STATION


🙂


those are certainly capital letters. No idea what they all mean, tho.  Possibly the least coherent post I’ve seen him make, guy is practically frothing at the mouth..  clearly hit a nerve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jinxed said:

Two = 2. 

‘to’ is the spelling you’re looking for. 
 

I usually ignore stuff of that nature.  I'm already falling into so many "that guy" categories that I can skip the low hanging fruit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/7/2022 at 12:17 PM, W1zard said:

E:D is a an immersive First-Person view game. Again, First-Person.
And this radar is your
only way of knowing your surrounding.
Also the combat in E:D is at much lower distances
In DU you can just wiggle your mouse a bit and see what's going on.
I think we actually need some fleet markers, and better UI for already existing system. Not a ripoff from other game with different mechanics...

Actually it is like that because it has always been like that for the last 40 years from back when it was a third person game like DU.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Jinxed said:


those are certainly capital letters. No idea what they all mean, tho.  Possibly the least coherent post I’ve seen him make, guy is practically frothing at the mouth..  clearly hit a nerve.


I put a smiley

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Dixiii said:

Just tell us, when PvE vs ships will appear. Majority of people waiting for that...

There is no plan for ship PvE content in this game unless you count refueling or delivery missions.  It has never been part of the plan.  I'm sure many have hoped that being a sandbox with LUA scripting that some players may find a way to inject PvE into the game somehow but I don't think that is worth holding one's breath over.

 

DU is supposed to be a clone of Eve Online's PvP gameplay with voxel building and LUA scripting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sniffing: I feel a wiff of smoke from organisations burning.

If this will be playable as solo or duo I would consider staying

a tad late though to start doing beta stuff after the public launch.

Looking at the market today (Thursday just after work ) I find nothing to buy and nothing to sell.

I appreciate the effort but just like the wipe killed my excitement and lust to build stuff - the launch did it too when I was drenched in pre fabricated everything from the beta. I have re started Elder Scrolls V just to pass time before the return of play ability. (that's how desperate I am)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/7/2022 at 2:32 AM, NoRezervationz said:

 

This is a load of BS. If you want to talk risk vs reward, ganking an unarmed ship tops the list. You get the ship and the cargo with no risk, and the miner takes all the risk. That's not even PvP, it's PvE with an extra layer.

 

Cry me a river, ganker.


Well then kills in PVP zone are only miner ship? And when you core a ship, you have to repair some parts/core it and come back with it.

Why the miner itself don't have weapons?
Why he don't have some mates ready for help him?
Why he don't call for help another group?
Why he don't have a S PVP core dock on his ship?

Miners on pipe are just afk, they don't care about the risk. They will win more quanta/ore with all their other run without getting catch. It's exactly why players don't try to protect themself.

Any organized group can trap pirates, some pirates roam or camp alone.

You are clearly the type of player who are just useless for DU. Stay a forum warrior, I prefer try to push this game in something better for everyone, not only my wallet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/7/2022 at 8:19 AM, Virtualburn said:


Great analogy, this is the crux of the issue.  Killing with impunity and no risk / reward balance.  If an attack ship will give away their position when firing and destroying a smaller unarmed XS ship they will think twice.  But if you have a group camping for haulers, then the risk vs reward is high amid the possibly you'd have to fight for the spoils... 

PVP is all or nothing.


Just read my previous message, we didn't kill with impunity, players just don't protect their asset because it's not needed.

It's a sandbox, use your brain, your hands, your quantas for don't let pirates kill with impunity or YOU are the problem, not us.

We are a solution to your laziness, NQ just needs to stop locking you too much into your world where doing nothing or never interacting with another player is the main gameplay of a MMO.

You asked for joining my org on reddit, for start some PVP, and now, just cuz I didn't saw it you are angry against us? 😕

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/6/2022 at 6:35 PM, Cobqlt said:


I totally disagree and I principally kills players on pipes those day (no time for roaming for nothing due to my job)

The DU unofficial killboard talk by itself, or internal killboards are clear, roids kills are mainly throwaway ship. Adding more tool for dodge PVP players or protect more miners will just help them to continue this.

On a MMO, I prefer push the players for regroup or pay some mercenary or any other way than just allow a free farm for everyone and annhilate the utility of trying to defend your stuff.

I agree with you on pretty much everything except , the tactical maps making it easier of miner's to escape . because the main problem with pvp , is finding someone to pvp , the space is simply too large for our radars to find players in a reasonable time frame (this is assuming that the tactical maps are much larger than radar distance). The miners most times are gonna be heavier than the pvp ship , so detection means defeat unless the safe zone is close enough .  Basically ,the tactical map is more of an advantage for pvpers than it is for miners , because pvpers are faster and more agile . this can even be a greater advantage for pvpers if they increase the range of weapons , the moment they are detected , is the moment the battle starts . 

i also would have rather NQ reducing the amount of asteroids in the safe zone , in-fact i rather it be exclusive to pvp space .Like you said players just keep stacking resources , because there is no massive war happening or will happen , that orgs can sink all their resources into , basically zero survival elements , just reward , reward , reward , so everybody is a god , and it turns out being a god is boring . I don't think it is just the loud but little player base left that want a carebear game , but the developers want it too , NQsesch literally says he is a carebear , so the future of this game is not looking too good 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it that PvP'ers seems perfectly fine with forcing other players to play a certain way against their will?

 

The simple fact is that those players that want to PvP are already doing so, and those that do not find joy in PvP are not. And no amount of calling them 'carebears' are going to change that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with you that calling non-pvp players care bears is not useful. How are PVP players forcing others to pvp though? The safe vs. pvp boundary is clearly marked and, barring exploits like dragging ships out of the safe zone, avoiding pvp is trivial to do. If you don't want to pvp, you can easily choose not to.

 

At the end of the day, PVP players and non-PVP players have similar issues with the game right now. We want more content that involves the type of game we want to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Cobqlt said:

We are a solution to your laziness,


This is a very true statement, as I have mainly played the game solo I appreciate the risk and weigh the loss, you are also right in the fact that the benefits over time really do outweigh the minor losses of ships that are built to be lost.  My issue - and it's same with pretty much all other games - is the mentality, that an S or M core hunter / pirate or whatever comes across an XS miner that can carry probably max 20kl of Ore and they shoot them anyway.  But I doubt this will change, this is killing with impunity.

IF for example there was a benefit / loss balance with attacking unarmed smaller ships then there would be some thought prior to attacking - is it worth it.  for some XS scrap and 20kl of Coal...  Unable to access safe zone for 2 hours, location is blipped for 2 minutes in the sector... then probably not.

Yes I did message on Reddit.  I want to understand your point of view and the PVP side of the game, I'm now focusing my builds on defence/attack ships.  This animosity between PVP players and Solo designers / miners needs to end, people see the game differently and expect different aspects to suit their gameplay.

It does need to be balanced, and yes you are right, it will be better for all of us - in the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Why is it that PvP'ers seems perfectly fine with forcing other players to play a certain way against their will?

 

The simple fact is that those players that want to PvP are already doing so, and those that do not find joy in PvP are not. And no amount of calling them 'carebears' are going to change that.


Because it's not all non PVP players who are carebears, but those who push NQ to nerf or patch the game for remove some risk or tool for PVP players.

Those players, who cry for don't be forced to PVP, force PVP players to lost their content.

Stop thinking about a problem just by your eyes, check the problem from all angles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Cobqlt said:


Because it's not all non PVP players who are carebears, but those who push NQ to nerf or patch the game for remove some risk or tool for PVP players.

Those players, who cry for don't be forced to PVP, force PVP players to lost their content.

Stop thinking about a problem just by your eyes, check the problem from all angles.

You've got some serious delusions about non-PVP players that you think "check the problem from all angles" doesn't also apply to you. There are SOME who do as you say, making throw-away ships to slip in, mine a node and leave for massive profit; my friends have toyed with the idea, even, because of how you people force us to think about it just to get resources we need to build the stuff you think we've all got in spades. There are far more of us who CANNOT AFFORD TO DO PVP, and CANNOT GET ENOUGH PEOPLE TOGETHER TO DO IT. This isn't a full-time job, where everyone in an org is expected to always be online at the same time because they all live in the same time zone range. Scheduling time to go mining even inside the safe zone is rough for many orgs. If we're lucky, the people I hang with have only a few on at any given time because of work and time zones, and I know we're not the only ones.

 

For us, our mining ships aren't built the way they are "because we're lazy and don't want to defend ourselves," but because we CAN'T defend ourselves; we don't have the people, and without one of our guys running tons of missions with alts to get money fast (which shouldn't even be a thing, but neither should many other things that are), we wouldn't have the money AND ore resources to build even basic defenses...and if we did, PVPers would just do what PVPers do and work slightly harder for easy money.

 

See, for YOU, there's a reward to PVP. For EVERYONE ELSE, there is only risk, with no reward. You are out there (be honest with yourself, and us) hunting down ships that you then loot and fix, and try to sell back to the original owners. My feelings about that kind of behavior aside, you get all of the reward for almost zero risk. And yes, you people DO focus on ships that can't defend themselves. I don't know how many times I've been told that you guys tend to ignore ships that have guns. It's not about PVP, but easy loot. YOU may believe that it isn't, but it always was, with people wanting actual PVP fights with the actual threat of losing being the minority.

 

And that brings us to PVP for everyone else. There is no reward, only risk, which is why you don't see orgs dedicated to pirate hunting, doing escort missions, etc. There is no reward worth the massive amount of time wasted on the majority of the trip, or the resources spent on the ships to do it. We're not searching people to kill and loot to make up for the costs. We're not swimming in resources as you originally claimed, either. Many of your ships are just as throw-away as ours, just as minimally geared as ours, which is also why you lot tend to avoid fighting solo ships that run armed (maybe YOU don't, but a trend is a trend, so don't deny that "put a gun on your ship, even if there's no ammo" is legit advice to avoid PVP). For many of us, that's all we can really afford to lose if we want the game to be at all enjoyable. Because we do other things than PVP, and those other things cost.

 

And then there's the flight time. You've flown PVP space. You know how long trips can be between planets. You may not know that many of us miner-types don't go to asteroids to mine them for a few minutes before leaving to avoid you, but prefer to spend time eating the asteroids so we can use the ore to build better ships (you're geared towards PVP, so you focus on getting that. We're not, because we've got so many other things to do than just PVP). Do you SERIOUSLY think that REAL PEOPLE with REAL LIVES want to spend several hours watching their radar while twiddling their thumbs when they could be doing something more interesting? (For mining runs in PVP space, there's always got to be someone on the ship ready to flee because of what you're complaining about losing. Do you really think there are infinite numbers of us with nothing better to do?) "Just warp, then" isn't an option anymore because of the schematics time/costs...and because we don't have access to nearly the quantity of the necessary resources you seem to believe we've all got.

 

And how much do you think that kind of escort service is worth, that non-PVP players can easily afford it? Just how much do you think we ACTUALLY make from just existing? Again, without mission runners, the economy would be much weaker simply because the costs for making schematics, paying territory taxes, buying ore/parts, etc etc etc, is so high, and only the super-orgs would have any resources to speak of. Nearly ALL of the risk and cost is on the side of the non-PVPers. It's not because we're lazy or coddled. It's because there is ZERO REWARD for PVP for most of us; only risk. For you, it's almost all reward with very little risk, unless you have a rival org or are a loner...but as a loner in PVP, you still have far less risk than non-PVPers, and far more reward, and even with rivals, you still get your jollies by ganking us and funding your own efforts...meanwhile, those of us who aren't the minority you describe have to use throw-away ships just so we don't lose a month of progress.

 

You complain an awful lot about how PVPers are being wronged, meanwhile showing you have no understanding of what non-PVPers deal with. This game is a huge open world/solar system, where spending 2-8 hours of mindless travel isn't unheard-of, where not everyone is part of a super-org that can afford good ships that they can have spare personnel to defend at all times, where resources have to be split between multiple outlets (if you're a big org, you have many demands for spending that aren't PVP), and where the threat of losing a ship to PVP can be equivalent to a week or even a month of game time lost for people who can't play as a full-time job.

 

There's obviously a lot of work that needs to be put into the game to make its PVP better, but you seem to be laboring under the delusion that this is unique to DU. It isn't. This is a genre-wide problem, because you PVPers MAKE IT ONE. It's a problem in literally every MMO with piracy that I've ever played or heard of. When there is no real reward for fighting pirates (how do you think an economy like that would function? Have you ever actually thought about it beyond "well, people would pay taxes..."? Have you thought about WHO would do it beyond "well, PVPers would do it for money..."? I doubt you have), but plenty from being one, people stop wanting to bother with PVP...except for those whose entire purpose for playing is piracy. And again, be honest and admit that that's the vast majority of all PVP encounters. Not legit PVP, but as someone else said, PVE with extra steps. And then PVP becomes what it is in DU, just as in other games: a pirate's paradise, with almost no opposition besides other pirates, and when other opposition does show up, an enemy to rally the rest of the pirates to wipe out and discourage others from trying.

 

Rather than whining about how unfair it is for gankers who can't have easy marks with easy strategies for ganking, complain about the PVP system being massively unbalanced so that easy ganking is even a thing (yes, you probably believe that it's strategy-intensive, which is why you insult the rest of us as being dumb and not using our heads to avoid you), that there is no incentive for non-gankers to bother with PVP, that the system itself is garbage for various reasons (like line of sight not being necessary to shoot stuff), etc etc etc. Complain about the system that makes PVP so unbalanced in YOUR favor (the safe zones give us all a place to not deal with the craptastic system which, without the safe zones, would STILL favor you, because we're not pirates who drool over more piracy), not the people who don't have any interest in being target practice and breakable piggybanks for gankers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...