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On 10/27/2022 at 11:23 AM, ActuallyBambi said:

It really is disheartening; the game is moribund to be honest. I've wanted to keep my foot in the door and I've hung around for a while. I was surprised when I was told the game went to full launch. To what fanfare? I keep my expectations low having been disappointed by other titles in the genre (not naming names) but nothing here is going to make me want to continue. The game today is in a worse state than two years ago, I don't like the direction taken and I don't like what's ahead. Never say never but it's going to take a lot - and probably a long time - to bring me back.


This is just hyperbole. You may not like the direction of DU (and this is your perfectly valid person opinion), but you can't honestly say it is worse than it was two years ago.  

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20 minutes ago, Doombad said:


This is just hyperbole. You may not like the direction of DU (and this is your perfectly valid person opinion), but you can't honestly say it is worse than it was two years ago.  


Many would argue that...  but its just opinion.  Personally, I see NO value in schematics other than another speed bump for players to grind through.  I also reject the "lets just make it harder, because that is more challenging".  If folks enjoy that they can just forego learning most talents, or stick to haven and the markets for all your needs.  Sorry "more challenging" does not mean "more fun", just more grind.

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2 hours ago, Doombad said:

you can't honestly say it is worse than it was two years ago.  


Yeah, you can. It depends on what you liked about the game way back then. If Diggy-diggy-hole was your bag, then the hurdles you have to jump to get that game "experience" nowadays are significantly higher than they were. If casual indy was what you liked to tinker with, Schematics have just shot your game experience in the face. I'm not sure how anyone could fund casual ship design either, these days, since you'd pretty much have to buy all your Elements and Honeycomb off the markets with your "daily stipend", due to the barriers to casual indy that make "diy" more challenging. Maybe you liked the lack of artificial constraints on what you could fit to a ship.


It doesn't crash and glitch as much, sure. And having asteroids you can mine is novel. I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff that's better, too, so it's honestly arguable and subjective whether it's better or worse.

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Apologies for the thread necromancy but I came back to see a reply and I'd like to defend my point that it isn't hyperbole. Hyperbole would be calling this game a "scam" like others call another game :P The diggy-diggy-hole method (I like that name) as was quoted above was a good minigame, accessible, and required skill. Not to say that the mining units don't require skill but it is so much more boring. Don't even mention asteroids, I haven't bothered.


Onto schematics, I hate them; right now they are way too much of a hindrance. I could live with modifications, streamlines, cutting off some slack or whatever else is appropriate. I definitely wouldn't miss them if they ceased to exist entirely although I doubt this day will happen. But right now it really does ruin the flow.


For me, the two primary aspects of gameplay are not fun: mining stuff, and making stuff. Therefore my own future is not good. I don't understand their objectives with more inhibiting gameplay loops. Is it to stop the development of the mega-corporations? On the contrary, it's probably more necessary than ever to be part of one for development? 


For the future of the game, just how will they retain new players? I guarantee 95% if not more of 'new' players that make it past a week are alts. Is that all they're hoping for now? 

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well within 6 days we will see. all people who had free days and maybe used a single dac will be out of the picture in a few days.

Already the amount of ships on the ports of alioth/haven and sanctuary show a clear picture and only one or two markets are almost as busy as a lazy day during early beta. Top days like before 0.23 i have not seen since, but it is already too late to get those people back probably. I sent discord messages to allmost all my former org mates and about 90% first asked if schematics and mining changed and with the answer we still have schematics they all wished me good luck and told me they would not even bother to reinstall or try the free steam.

Thats what happens, and all discussions here or in discord are nice, all people telling we "oldies" should not complain and sink in it, all fine, just remember that all the "oldies who are still here complaining or trying to get a message through still have not given up.

Its the headstrong stuborn attitude to stand behind a non working, no value added mechanisme that actually killed over half the playerbase that is the problem. And If the end of schematics does bring back mega factories, what is the issue? If it really is the server how the hell do we expect to even grow numbers since apparently the server load cannot even handle the current numbers if they build some industry. Or dig holes.


The community, the "oldies" have brought good ideas for schematics to get rid of them the way they were and introduce a fair system but what did we get in the end, a system even worse then what we had, still no research as we have copy paste buy time sink now. There are so many examples of working systems and DU could easy incorporate one of those but now we get a system that cost money and time to get the rights to make a cup of coffee, and with that right i still dont have a cup of coffee, and for the next cup i need a new right.........


T1 product like steel has a schematic per 75 liters, did anyone think about how many schematics that would mean per large container for T1 materials alone?

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We need systems that bring gameplay, we need more things to do when we log in DU and not just handling timers.

Players should never see the end game coming or they will lost interests.


Schematic system is just boring in its actual form. I would prefer having original chematics where we can make researches (material and time efficiency) and copies. The original schematics could be acquired with reward points acquired by other systems such explorations, achievements, PVE, PVP, etc. As example, having a fully researched basic space engine schematic allow you to upgrade the tier to uncommon at the cost of the researches done on the schematic.


Bring some fast-past action with PVE in space but also on ground. Build alien "space dungeon stations" where people can scan and doing in group. Same things can be added on planet/moon ground, procedural buildings to destroy with tanks and artilleries.


fyi, hauling missions isnt that fun.



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The only thing schematics add are delays to the game play.  My factory, which is in its 3rd iteration (Haven->Alioth->Madis), is now being built out to process T3 ores that I've had to purchase from the market.  All T3 processing equipment (refiners, smelters, etc.) require T3 to build, which is a real catch 22 for anyone trying to go solo.  So, ok, no 100% die-hard, no-alt, soloist.  Anyhow, its incredibly annoying to get things cranked up at night just to find your out of some schematic in the morning and it will be ANOTHER day before that industry is made.  Its just excessive.  


Thank god for the efforts of those folks that make publicly available LUA code like ArchHUD and IndyHUD - those tools are real boost to playability.  Shame we lost the ArchHUD supporter, but IndyHUD is still being worked on.  ArchHUD alone changed the game for me.

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Letter to the Creative Director



Firstly , recycling is a good addition but please don't make us require schematics to do it given we already had them to create it .


But I think perhaps you should think about changing the games name from Dual Universe to Do Admin.






Some others posted that taunts/pets are not a priority. I agree but if the pets add bonus skills then that will be acceptable.


Someone in DU seems to think that time gating and maintenance gets subscription duration. I just think it loses players and eventually you will close.



Focus on things that are more game play than admin/maintenance and the obvious time gating to get subscriptions.

You need to make some changes that address how much time is required to admin territories and schematics as this is not fun.

a) if we have to have schematics why can't schematics all come from one schematic bank. Remove the need to go to each machine.

b) why can't territory payments just come from a person or orgs wallet.


Some other things you could have done instead of pets and taunts.

rotating engines?

balance products cost they are the main issue, t1 product should be free like all basics

Scanning %harvest ore left on territory by type. 

Territory Scanner time reduction skill please

T2/T3 availability on alioth is to low

Player avatars , can we have one where the player does not show the arm raised or an option to turn it off.

the UI could really do with some work. it really doesn't flow well. EG: escape should close a window when its open for everything.



The community was quite capable of creating the content/gameplay , what you did is reduce the capability of this unique gameplay to everyone  by introducing some game mechanics that require to much admin time and not focusing on playtime mechanics PVE/PVP.




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You are correct, the moment DU feels more like work then actual work, im out.  And thats very close.

Minigames were already bad but at the moment the only thing i do with mining units is calibrate, i dont even use containers on them as the calibration drops are way better then any gains ever from the units.

schematics....yeay you really must hate yourself if you find that adition fun

all other limitations added lately, useless.

Server load is more importand then the game itself but this should have been topclass server tech.

game runs on NPC missions and buy bots. that must tell you something is wrong.



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More and more topics, more sadness ...
Firstly. We must understand that if something is being done, then someone needs it. Even if we do not understand the purpose of the input.
Agree with many. Some mechanics are introduced intentionally to slow down the development of players and corporations. Only corporations could not be slowed down. As a result, the nerf was received mainly by solo players and small groups.
A simple answer to the question "why". Because it is not planned to introduce a large amount of additional content. Therefore, we get the classic lengthening of the grind.
Secondly. Pets, emotions and more. They will be introduced in any case and in any (even useless) form, because they promised. This is necessary at least in order to formally fulfill the promises on kickstarter. After these issues are closed, you can at least close, or do something else. Formal promises will be fulfilled.
Thirdly. Gameplay suggestions from players. I myself once believed that the forum read. I think that they still read it now, but very selectively. After all, members of the forum do not have the right to vote. Unfortunately in many things NQ management prefers to reinvent the wheel for the tenth time. Instead of using either the ideas of the players, or the experience of 30 years of the existence of the gaming industry. And if this does not happen, it is only because someone at the top needs it.
Fourth. Yes, we understand that NQ is a small studio. Moreover, it is possible and necessary to attract talented players to generate content. There is nothing wrong. People who are truly passionate about your game can do interesting and high-quality work. But for some reason UGC is not used.

I could write many other points. But even this is enough to ask a question. "Why does everything happen the way it does?"

It seems that the project is being prepared for closure.
All DACs distributed to sponsors will be worked out, several months on self-sufficiency and "the project did not live up to our expectations ...".
I'll be happy if I'm wrong!

If you can't do it yourself, give it to someone who can. But I don't remember anyone giving their project to someone else. It's easier to bury.

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40 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

this should have been topclass server tech


I'm starting to think they horribly screwed the pooch on their server architecture. Given that Planetside had massive FPS combats the decade before last, it shouldn't be that hard to get AvA going with modern server tech. They must've made some choices early on that they now can't unpick and which are hard blocking any short distance action. All their precision selections seem 'off' to me, and they've made a rod for their own backs with things like Talents that shave fractions of seconds off the "tick time" of some things, so they are required to have very frequent checks in order to keep things lined up as they "ought" to be. The load on the server is thusly massively inflated over what a "good game" really needs.

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What would be really cool is if you could create your own challenges.
So like GTA only in this case you connect to the VR station to a virtual sandbox in which you can spawn designs from existing blueprints and create new blueprints in a virtual creative mode.
In which you can build everything with full access to all materials and objects like minecraft creativ mode.
To be able to use the existing blueprints that you have already created in normal mode and to be able to create custom content like races, challenging levels or anything else that I can't even imagine yet.
And also to extract what you have created in this VR sandbox mode as a blueprint to the normal mode from the VR station.
So that you can fully concentrate on the development of the new prototype in the VR sandbox mode and not bring his avatar in danger or the build comes to a halt because you first have to build the parts or voxels before you can continue designing.


Very important would be of course for racing challanges, that it should be possible to create multiplayer challanges for racing for example, and also an option to crate an leader board , to make it more challanging.


Also the editing of the rights, who can access created challenge should be configurable, if you want to create events for your organization/friends, for different occasions e.g. christmas, new year, trainigs scenario, recruting test scenario, etc.


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1 hour ago, Bobbie said:

So I crashed my ship into the mountainside and died. Upon returning however, instead of finding my ship on the mountainside, it is floating 60+ meters above ground. How am I supposed to get to it and repair it?

Can you use the maneuver tool to grab it and bring it down?  If not, fetch it. 

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Vote No on schematic talents....vote no on schematics.  There are so many people like myself who love to play, build, and explore...Territory fees are way to high.  Mining is completely bonkers now...  Your completely throwing out a player base who only wants to play 5 to 10 hours a week.  They dont want a full time job trying to pay for territories and schematics.   Quite a few tiles are going inactive already in just a few weeks ...real money is gonna dwindle for DU.   Not trying to be a jerk but if you wanted it to be a co-op game with large groups...should of been advertised that way. 

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15 hours ago, JackRaid said:

Vote No on schematic talents....vote no on schematics.  There are so many people like myself who love to play, build, and explore...Territory fees are way to high.  Mining is completely bonkers now...  Your completely throwing out a player base who only wants to play 5 to 10 hours a week.  They dont want a full time job trying to pay for territories and schematics.   Quite a few tiles are going inactive already in just a few weeks ...real money is gonna dwindle for DU.   Not trying to be a jerk but if you wanted it to be a co-op game with large groups...should of been advertised that way. 


This presumes we get to vote on game issues - we do not - as much as I support the comment.


It gets better.  Apparently we now have "Batches of Batches" whereby if the batch time is less than 3 minutes (per NQ Support) multiple batches will be run at once.  If it takes 6 batches to exceed 3 minutes, you will get an "Out of Schematics" once your down to 5.  The code is broke of course, or the 3 minutes limit is wrong.  I have an Atmos fuel plant with a 2 minute 43 second run time that died with "out of schematics" when it still had 4.  Support suggested this was because of talents, which are not considered for the 3 minute run time rule.  But lack of talents would take the run time UP, not down to a shorter time.  So a hack on code that is well over 3 years old (batches) breaks again.  No surprise.  Just can't understand why 1)  They won't admit it a bug and 2) they just don't adjust batch sizes so that the minimum is over whatever their magic cost efficiency number is (apparently 3 minutes, but maybe not).  e.g.  Fix the root cause instead of adding another layer of code that is buggy.

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The rate of post release updates is extremely disheartening. We're getting the tiniest of bug fixes trickling out when there should be a flurry of activity... Hello Games releases MASSIVE patches (sometimes weekly after a DLC drop) for NMS fixing dozens of bugs at a time,  with a staff comprising about a dozen coders. And that's on top of constant, quartly MAJOR patches (I believe the latest patch is about the TWENTIETH major patch in six years. So that is between three and four truly major updates per year surrounded by bug fixes as and when needed.


Compare that to this game where every time they release a new feature (and by feature, I mean remove a game mechanic), four other features break.

Still, it only took them four years to release XS space fuel tanks, so at least they're on the ball there. LOL.

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On 11/6/2022 at 3:18 PM, Aaron Cain said:

last time i got the message i canot fetch as the ship is not On the surface :D


This has bin a problem ever Sense the decreased the range of fetch  I once had two build a bunch of ships  and put platforms on them stacked them with move tool tell I culd clime  high enough two use my maneuver tool. 

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