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PANACEA UPDATE ADDED TO ROADMAP - discussion thread


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It would be much more interesting if the asteroids were replaced by a whole asteroid belt, constantly moving in an elliptical orbit through the solar system, without any timer or respawn times.

If most players play on weekends, why don't the asteroids respawn already on Fridays, to have no waiting time on Saturdays, when where which asteroid could appear? The whole Saturday is only a waiting loop

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13 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

The question should be asked why the asteroids are not an integral part of the game

 

And again we have already multiple times given NQ a lot of feedback on possible solutions for this.

 

My personal favorite is to have a huge circular asteroid belt that is slowly rotating and running trough the entire DU universe, spawning in when asteroids entering the universe at one end and de-spawining when leave again at the other end. And this asteroid ring belt would then be positioned and scaled such that asteroids first appear in PvP space before eventually passing thought safe zones as the ring rotates. Meaning that higher tier materials would be made available first in the PvP space, and whatever is left over would eventually be made available in safe zones as the asteroids glide through it.

 

Edit: @Zarcata Great minds think alike it would seem.. :)

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On 1/11/2022 at 7:21 PM, NQ-Deckard said:

The Camera Lua API will provide a way for control units to retrieve the view direction of the player. Allowing for improved tracking and overlaying in player made Lua scripts such as some of the already very impressive "Alternate Reality" overlays some of our players have been making. It will not however introduce new camera views.
 

- NQ-Deckard

Thank you so much for adding this. A small set of us programmers have really wanted this, and now we'll be getting it. I plan to make full use of it in my open source API as soon as it is released. Finally, I can get third person working, if it is implemented as such.

However, to expand on what the person said, which prompted your response, it is a nice idea to give--at least--limited control to the camera.

Right now, the camera movements aren't that natural, they're immediate and very gamey, but at least with minimal control we can smooth out movements to be more natural, add things like negating headbob, or add jerking when a ship experiences high Gs. Maybe even allowing us to program basic "cinematic" camera movements for a slow and constant pan, or a smooth one.

I'm sure it wouldn't be easy to prevent some smart people from exploiting this, or even easy to implement it at all, but it would certainly allow us to add QoL features you otherwise don't have the resources/priority at this time to do.

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Look the answer kind of went over my head too but as I understand it, it does not add what you're talking about and I alluded to... It's more like you can code pokemon go in lua with it, scripts that use player orientation so to speak.

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19 hours ago, Overstimuloredom said:

Look the answer kind of went over my head too but as I understand it, it does not add what you're talking about and I alluded to... It's more like you can code pokemon go in lua with it, scripts that use player orientation so to speak.


AR Demo #1 (Damage Control) Not Available for purchase at this time:
(On Main Discord, the video)
https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/839963470576222208

AR Demo #2 (Waypointer) Available for free on DU Creators:
(On Main Discord, the video)
https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748572194463940759/852681427443384381

AR Demo #3 (Virtual Cockpit UI) Not Available at this moment:
(On Main Discord, under Lua, the video)
https://discord.com/channels/184691218184273920/748595338813898773/929053097475596369
 

These three currently only function well in first person and even then it required an annoying calibration step each time it gets out of sync. The proposed API means it will no longer need that calibration step and with luck third person will also be seamlessly supported.

I'm currently trying to flesh out Demo #3 into a full flight UI system. @UnCheat also made one, but by a different method to me. Anyway, these are just a few of the useful applications. AR is the main one in my most humble opinion, but there are certainly other simpler applications. The camera API, in a nut shell, would basically tell you: where you are looking, and from where you are looking. NQ probably have a good demo to show other uses aside from AR. 

 

9 hours ago, FatRillos said:

With the camera stuff coming can we finally get our first person view fixed from the seat? I know I'm not the first to ask. It can't be that hard to fix either.

And yeah, one would hope it gives you the actual camera in every instance, even when doing an emote.
 

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So in the announcement of the "Panacea" update which its of note to know the meaning of that word as a start to what I am about to say. Panacea means a solution or remedy for all difficulties or diseases, so to that end and based on what was said and I quote, " We recognized that we fell short in the aftermath of the Demeter release." This is an understatement at best, NQ killed the economy in a matter of hours upon this release for some they were happy or elated as prices of goods and ships fell in the days after Demeter. Also what NQ managed to do was drive a good number of builders, industry makers, ship creators, content creators away from the game just after the release and then slowly over the last few months more and more have left for other titles. Some may have come back here and there but the amount of time they now spend in DU has diminished greatly. One great ship builder and extremely talented voxel mancers Damphousse have left the game for good as of now and closed their ship showroom on Alioth for the foreseeable future and incase your wondering they have also removed their ships from the DU creator site as well. 

 

Indeed there were a few good things that came from the Demeter update for some people that still play this game, many were happy that megas and ground mining were removed but then soon found out that things said by NQ about auto mining were not true like being able to recalibrate in VR. Yes you can do it but at what cost your talents no longer work in VR so your wasting time doing it this way as you are not getting the full benefit of the miner. In the year that I have been playing this game although not as long as most but I have watched NQ very close in the correspondence they put out or update announcements released. In doing this I have learned to read between the lines and dig deeper into what they are really intending to do in whatever update they are releasing at the time. More often than not most people only read and believe what they want and argue to the death to defend it which is laughable most of the time and quite hilarious to both watch and read. In looking at the wording of this new looming update its a play on words really, its like that favorite jacket you wear in the winter all warm and cozy that makes you feel all warm toasty but really your sneaky roommate stripped the liner out of it and now your out in the cold. I will admit when I read the announcement I was like hey they are going to listen this time but again reading between the lines it seems once again that NQ is going to dribble a few things here and there like what seems to be case to keep most players interested. Like the ability to requisition ships or dynamic constructs good right or miner API, camera LUA API changes to name a few. However, there is much more bad that is looming if this goes forward and I am afraid it may drive the reaming few 5 same people I see in chat away (being facetious) ok maybe the same10 people in chat. What do I mean by this well for starters the element stacking and NO I am NOT talking about the old crap that was pulled by stupid PVPers and some ship builders. I mean get in your favorite ship and pay attention to the screen a red warning box will appear and tell you that your favorite ship will soon be rendered inoperable due to elements being too close to one another i.e. brakes, engines, etc, etc. If implemented as it reads and NQ once again despite them saying they basically failed at the last update and once again fail to listen to the community this could be the end of this game except for those 10 players mentioned before. 

 

I am not trying to be negative here, I always try to see the positive but after the last few quite dismal updates it really is what I have come to expect from NQ and the reading between the lines almost always turns out to be true as they didn't listen to the community that actually plays the game. What is the bottom line that I am trying to convey to NQ, well if you go forward and once again don't listen to the community and just oil that loudest squeaky wheel again, you are just driving the point home that you don't care what the community has to say. Element stacking is bad yes but placing elements close to or even in the case of Atmo brakes on top of or stacked together like crackers is not bad and indeed serves a purpose. Looking at this looming update on face value which all we can do at the moment it seems this is going to break most ships currently in the game, you will not be able to deploy BPs that have these issues i.e. elements too close or voxel complexity too high etc. If Nq doesn't listen I am afraid this is going to drive the few builders we have left away and that will spell the end of the title until NQ truly listens to its payer base.

Edited by ReconDo17
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A few points -

 

On the vertex tool - I hope that it will allow us to make our dynamic contructs less "boxy", meaning we can create more circular shapes in base designs.  Not saying it's impossible now, but it requires some voxelmancy.   I'm talking large circular shapes that are M and L core friendly as well.

 

There is some quiet brilliance to the MU's, but my personal experience is that it's difficult to maintain modest amounts of them with the points recovering as slow as they do.  I don't even sell most of my ore, I use it in industry.  (I do have points into recovery time but they aren't maxed).  I hope you guys at least visit that part of it. 

 

Love the idea of space wrecks.  More content is a positive, so look forward to that.

 

I would like to see MORE asteroids! More in pvp space.

 

I do appreciate you needing to look at the metrics before making future decisions.  We are in beta!

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Glad you have provided another, better way to play sound in game but would like to request some more functionality:

 

system.repeatSound([string],filePath) --Repeats sound file until soundStop()
system.playRandom(folderPath) --Play random files in a folder
system.playList(list, folderPath) --Plays sounds in a folder in an order pre-defined in a table.
system.getTOC(folderPath) --Returns list of filenames in a folder

 

Edited by LeeFall
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On 1/18/2022 at 4:19 AM, ReconDo17 said:

So in the announcement of the "Panacea" update which its of note to know the meaning of that word as a start to what I am about to say. Panacea means a solution or remedy for all difficulties or diseases, so to that end and based on what was said and I quote, " We recognized that we fell short in the aftermath of the Demeter release." This is an understatement at best, NQ killed the economy in a matter of hours upon this release for some they were happy or elated as prices of goods and ships fell in the days after Demeter. Also what NQ managed to do was drive a good number of builders, industry makers, ship creators, content creators away from the game just after the release and then slowly over the last few months more and more have left for other titles. Some may have come back here and there but the amount of time they now spend in DU has diminished greatly. One great ship builder and extremely talented voxel mancers Damphousse have left the game for good as of now and closed their ship showroom on Alioth for the foreseeable future and incase your wondering they have also removed their ships from the DU creator site as well.

 

Indeed there were a few good things that came from the Demeter update for some people that still play this game, many were happy that megas and ground mining were removed but then soon found out that things said by NQ about auto mining were not true like being able to recalibrate in VR. Yes you can do it but at what cost your talents no longer work in VR so your wasting time doing it this way as you are not getting the full benefit of the miner. In the year that I have been playing this game although not as long as most but I have watched NQ very close in the correspondence they put out or update announcements released. In doing this I have learned to read between the lines and dig deeper into what they are really intending to do in whatever update they are releasing at the time. More often than not most people only read and believe what they want and argue to the death to defend it which is laughable most of the time and quite hilarious to both watch and read. In looking at the wording of this new looming update its a play on words really, its like that favorite jacket you wear in the winter all warm and cozy that makes you feel all warm toasty but really your sneaky roommate stripped the liner out of it and now your out in the cold. I will admit when I read the announcement I was like hey they are going to listen this time but again reading between the lines it seems once again that NQ is going to dribble a few things here and there like what seems to be case to keep most players interested. Like the ability to requisition ships or dynamic constructs good right or miner API, camera LUA API changes to name a few. However, there is much more bad that is looming if this goes forward and I am afraid it may drive the reaming few 5 same people I see in chat away (being facetious) ok maybe the same10 people in chat. What do I mean by this well for starters the element stacking and NO I am NOT talking about the old crap that was pulled by stupid PVPers and some ship builders. I mean get in your favorite ship and pay attention to the screen a red warning box will appear and tell you that your favorite ship will soon be rendered inoperable due to elements being too close to one another i.e. brakes, engines, etc, etc. If implemented as it reads and NQ once again despite them saying they basically failed at the last update and once again fail to listen to the community this could be the end of this game except for those 10 players mentioned before.

 

I am not trying to be negative here, I always try to see the positive but after the last few quite dismal updates it really is what I have come to expect from NQ and the reading between the lines almost always turns out to be true as they didn't listen to the community that actually plays the game. What is the bottom line that I am trying to convey to NQ, well if you go forward and once again don't listen to the community and just oil that loudest squeaky wheel again, you are just driving the point home that you don't care what the community has to say. Element stacking is bad yes but placing elements close to or even in the case of Atmo brakes on top of or stacked together like crackers is not bad and indeed serves a purpose. Looking at this looming update on face value which all we can do at the moment it seems this is going to break most ships currently in the game, you will not be able to deploy BPs that have these issues i.e. elements too close or voxel complexity too high etc. If Nq doesn't listen I am afraid this is going to drive the few builders we have left away and that will spell the end of the title until NQ truly listens to its payer base.

Yeah, and precisely because he left, he is posting an advertisement for a new ship in the official discord today. Yeah .. well yes

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Quote

Organization construct ownership (construct slots): a new way of assigning available construct limits to organizations.

 

I'm weary of what exactly this means... if it's a new way to allow non-legates to deploy and limit constructs in an org then that's cool. If this is going to be a system by which I can use my personal core slots for my org then that's going to be a disaster. The average person with a private org uses a ton of cores for landing pads, a factory or two, "fun" buildings, ships with different purposes, ship showroom/garage, pvp stuff if they participate it that, etc. Personal core limits are not even CLOSE to enough for anyone taking this game seriously. Not only that, but serious players have 2 or more accounts and leverage an org to allow easy sharing/rights between accounts. PLEASE don't approach this feature with a sledge hammer.

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On 1/10/2022 at 5:22 PM, Zarcata said:

The space wrecks, will these be found directly in space and thus be considered a source of danger? So I like to travel through space, mostly with the 30,000km/h. 

Question: If such a wreck then comes towards me and I can't avoid it because of the distance, the speed or simply because I'm AFK on a 5 hour mission flight, will it therefore kill me and destroy my ship "somewhere in space"?  

Will space then be just as dangerous as all those hemlines of constructs or voxel libraries in the air?

Is it possible to make such constructs simply transparent to "fly through" from 1,000 km/h and only active when approaching slower?

 

@Zarcata Reply from the Game Design team:


"Space wrecks are sitting still in space (making them in motion would create too much problem to catch them). It’s true that you have a - very - small risk to be on a trajectory on a space wreck or an asteroid when you fly in space, but the probability is incredibly low. Moreover, all space wrecks (unlike wrecks buried on planets) are displayed on radars. So you would need to be incredibly unlucky AND not check your radar once in a while to have a chance to bump into it and take some heavy damage / destroy your ship. Comparatively, you have more risk to use a “pipe” (a travel trajectory used by many players) and collide with another player ship sitting still in space because the player has disconnected. Even this case is very rare."

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On 1/12/2022 at 8:42 PM, Zarcata said:

It would be much more interesting if the asteroids were replaced by a whole asteroid belt, constantly moving in an elliptical orbit through the solar system, without any timer or respawn times.
If most players play on weekends, why don't the asteroids respawn already on Fridays, to have no waiting time on Saturdays, when where which asteroid could appear? The whole Saturday is only a waiting loop

 

@Zarcata Reply from the Game Design team:

"We are not sure to understand what you mean by that. Asteroids are (re)generated on Saturday, 00:01 at Australian time, which means it should be roughly 2:00 am on North America western coast, 4:00 am on North America easter coast, and 10:00 am Paris time… which means you don’t have to wait much for asteroids, even if you are in Europe."

 

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On 1/12/2022 at 8:43 PM, CptLoRes said:

My personal favorite [solution] is to have a huge circular asteroid belt that is slowly rotating and running trough the entire DU universe, spawning in when asteroids entering the universe at one end and de-spawining when leave again at the other end. And this asteroid ring belt would then be positioned and scaled such that asteroids first appear in PvP space before eventually passing thought safe zones as the ring rotates. Meaning that higher tier materials would be made available first in the PvP space, and whatever is left over would eventually be made available in safe zones as the asteroids glide through it.

 

@CptLoRes Reply from the Game Design team:

 

"This is a nice idea. However, the way we deal with space in DU makes it very complicated, if not impossible, to have moving planets/asteroids. It is a fundamental choice we made years ago, long before alpha. Our single shard nature makes it very difficult to deal with constructs that would be in the way of a moving asteroid, or player reconnecting inside of it."

 

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On 1/12/2022 at 5:30 AM, FatRillos said:

If they are under the ground and there's no reason to dig underground any more wouldn't you say that's fairly poorly implemented then? Maybe throw us a bone and let the scanners pick them up.  

 

@FatRillos Reply from the Game Design team:

"Finding wrecks buried in the planet underground is supposed to be a challenge. As they are in general extremely valuable, they shouldn’t be found with a snap of fingers. If you want “easy to find” wrecks, you have the space wrecks. You might think it’s poorly implemented, but our intent is to keep some difficulty to this kind of exceptional reward."

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On 1/11/2022 at 1:52 AM, Sostraphaios said:

What will the tax rate be in space?

What shape will the space territories take? (I.e. hexadecahedron, or by space territories do you mean huge zones encompassing large areas surrounding each planet, or something else)

Will I need to race to claim the space territory my space cores are in?

Will space markets be player-owned or aphelia-owned?

Will players be able to influence, and benefit from, the market taxes at these markets?

Will space TW only apply to space territories outside of the safe zone?

 

@Sostraphaios Reply from the Game Design team:

 

"There is no tax rate (upkeep) planned in space.
There is no plan to have “space territories'' working in the same way as planet territories. We used the word "territories" in a wrong way, at least not in the same way we do on the surface. They will be more like "spots" to own. More information is coming soon.
You won’t have to race to claim the “space territory” your space cores are in.
At first space markets will be Aphelia-operated. Then we will discuss the topic of player-operated space markets. As for players influencing/benefit from market taxes in space, several possibilities are studied. But in the idea of a player-market, the player (or most probably the organization) must have an incentive to operate it fairly. So yes, the original design involves player-defined catalog and taxes. But keep in mind that:
- player markets are not on the launch pad for now
- we will learn a lot from space markets to adjust the design, that is not frozen yet.
And yes, Space TW will only apply to space territories outside of the safe zone."

 

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On 1/11/2022 at 10:09 PM, Namcigam said:

You don't really get much done in 2-6 hours of play time and I think most players fit in there because they have to work and life responsibilities etc. Right now I have more free time to play than I should and it's still a challenge to do these things. So I do believe that tasks in game need to be quicker more efficient so that people can accomplish more per hour of game time. The gains don't seem to justify the means as it is. Is it possible to double the space speed cap?

 

@Namcigam Reply from the Game Design team:

 

"We'll keep this feedback in mind. Thank you sincerely. We also use more metrics to adjust playing time and cover more use cases. Some players want to spend their life in the game, some others just have one-hour sessions, a few times a week. 
The mining units are a step in the direction of being less time consuming, since they operate while you are offline. I guess you cannot see the benefit yet, but as we balance this feature, you will have more possibilities to play at your own rhythm. Also, the max speed will be improved soon."

 

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3 minutes ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

 

@Zarcata Reply from the Game Design team:

"We are not sure to understand what you mean by that. Asteroids are (re)generated on Saturday, 00:01 at Australian time, which means it should be roughly 2:00 am on North America western coast, 4:00 am on North America easter coast, and 10:00 am Paris time… which means you don’t have to wait much for asteroids, even if you are in Europe."

 

 

It would seem the game design team indeed does not understand... the quite clear suggestion of making asteroids more of a "universal" part of the game and not a "starts on Saturday" event which pretty much means that unless you can play during the time they spawn within the first 24-48 hours you lose out on them.

PVP zone asteroids are mostly massive arrows screaming "PEWPEW HERE" pointing to where players are mining and eventually just handing the asteroid position to "pirates" as a freebee..

And to round this off, the community in general has been trying to make NQ aware of this since the introduction of asteroids on PTS and even before that, as the first devblog on it arrived.

 

That the design team "do not understand" here IMO is more a matter of bad communication (or lack thereof) internally as the feedback from our end has been plentiful, consistent and very clear for the better part of a 6 months now. This response really begs the question what NQ is doing with the feedback the community provides, many of which come with good and meaningful suggestions and clear pointers to how this could be done better.

 

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18 minutes ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

 

@FatRillos Reply from the Game Design team:

"Finding wrecks buried in the planet underground is supposed to be a challenge. As they are in general extremely valuable, they shouldn’t be found with a snap of fingers. If you want “easy to find” wrecks, you have the space wrecks. You might think it’s poorly implemented, but our intent is to keep some difficulty to this kind of exceptional reward."

 

Is the design team aware that players no longer have a need to dig into the ground as NQ removed ore from it? and do they realise that because of this, wreck which are buried are _much_ less likely to be discovered

 

Would he game design team recognise that this is not something that has just come up but has been discussed on the forums by the community and some interesting ideas were floated by the community to make this more interesting, engaging and fun? 

 

Things like special equipment like ground radar, creating a gameplay loop where players go out and scan for wrecks.

 

As with asteroids, it appears that none of the discussion happening on this and other topics reaches the design team so they may not even be aware of these issues and/or suggestions. But above all that, how can they not realize that changes that they themselves would have made to the gameplay, specifically mining, would impact this quite seriously and how come that they have not started to consider options to improve this? 

 

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I don't particularly like some of the answers, like the one regarding ships wrecks which highlight the problem of DU designers focusing on making exclusive content that most players will never bother with or experience, while what the game badly needs is more general content for all players.

 

This is the same issue as with the previous Easter egg hunt NQ did. While cool and clearly inspired by Ready Player One, it was only like 1% of the player base at best that had the time and resources to compete in the hunt. And for the rest it was only something we heard about but did not improve our game experience in any way other that making us feel left out.

 

But.. at least there is something resembling communication here now. Keep this up NQ!

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4 hours ago, NQ-Nyzaltar said:

 

@FatRillos Reply from the Game Design team:

"Finding wrecks buried in the planet underground is supposed to be a challenge. As they are in general extremely valuable, they shouldn’t be found with a snap of fingers. If you want “easy to find” wrecks, you have the space wrecks. You might think it’s poorly implemented, but our intent is to keep some difficulty to this kind of exceptional reward."

What's extremely valuable to you? The values from what I've seen are minimal, since they were spawned before the new engines, the total value of one of those ships is what, 10 to 20 mil quanta. That's a joke to anyone who actively plays the game. drop in the bucket really. I may be different because I have an income that doesn't rely on your vision of what actual gameplay is. If I did I'd be poor and would have quit long ago.

 

From what I've seen no one even gives a crap about those wrecks anymore. I'm the only person mentioning it. It's not even for me, it's for the newer players and anyone else that doesn't have a real reason to play the game. It's about installing reasonable gameplay loops that achieve player retention with mechanics already in game. Something extremely lacking as of late. 

 

If I wasted my time and went out looking for one of those wrecks, the time invested would in no way be reasonable or acceptable for anyone that could make millions of quanta by surface harvesting in the same time and be in a better place by ignoring them entirely. Ala poor implementation.

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