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Weak economy for at least another month or two maybe?


Underhook
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I dont have much quanta so I, like many others it seems have been selling ore.  I tried selling refined metals but they are even harder to sell.

There is a shortage of buyers so I have had to sell ore to buyers.  I decided it was time to do some math.

I have 4 hex currently producing T2 and T3 ore.

My estimated income per week is 12.5 mil less tax is 8.5 mil.  I'm not going to count calibration ore as it should roughly offset the MU that randomly turn themselves off.

After tax of 4 mil I'm left with 8.5 mil.  I have claimed a hex with a small amount of T4 and another with some T5 (currently HQ).

So, my next purchase will be a Rare MU for 23 mil.  So, thats 3 weeks away.  Income should then rise by 4.5 mil allowing for tax.  So total 13 mil.

My next purchase after that will be an Exotic MU .  Thats 64 mil.  So, another 5 weeks.

Then I'll be set.  So, this is based on current prices.  Mu prices might drop but so might ore prices.

 

The thing is.  I will not be purchasing anything from anybody (other than 2 MU) for the next 8 weeks at least.

If, many other players are like me, then, thats a long time with little economic activity.

Its also maybe going to be pretty boring, unfortunately.

 

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I wouldn't say economy any weaker or stronger as before. What you seeing right now is the effect of us gorging on meganodes at insane pace in the last 3 weeks before demeter. I will take a while for the estabilished players to burn through their hoards of ore/modules. 

 

In pure numerical values, prices buy/sell sit roughly at levels they were around patch 0.23.   Having said that it is real bummer to new players who aspire to get into production, as schematics have effectively become 3 times as expensive as they had been just a few weeks ago.  

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If the economy can produce everything cheaply through cheap ores, it helps us all. So you can build and produce everything cheaper, accordingly a loss in the PvP zone will not hurt so extremely.

So, as a society, we should take it easier and cheaper in this regard and help ourselves the most in general. High prices usually only help single individuals or isolated organizations to have a manipulative effect.

 

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6 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

The economy can't produce schematics and taxes won't get cheap either.

That's why NQ has to step in at this point, because we can't. If we need expensive schematics - then we have to earn Quanta through missions. Expensive prices at the market do NOT help, because quanta there are only shifted from player A to B and do not flow into the game. On the contrary, trading there takes quanta out of the game through taxes.

If the player would ignore the market and create his own market, we could all build up much cheaper and faster.

Schematics we need - currently - but no more, we have in our society all schemtaics that are available in the game, we should share this "knowledge" only more sensibly with each other and not exploit each other.

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5 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

If we need expensive schematics - then we have to earn Quanta through missions.

Industry (which schematics are required for) and missions are completely different gameplay. Forcing players who are interested in the one to do the other makes no sense. It will reather force them out of the game.

 

5 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

Expensive prices at the market do NOT help, because quanta there are only shifted from player A to B and do not flow into the game.

The last time I used the market I got something in return for my quanta. It seems you do not see the full picture. Low prices are good for players who prefer gameplay that involves quanta injection (e.g. missions) but they are bad for everybody else. With high prices it is the other way around. A healthy market should find the balance in the middle. Major changes like 0.23 and Demeter push the market out of the balance and there are always winners and losers. It sounds like you belong to the winners. Claiming it would help us all might make you feel better but it's simply not true - especially for new players.

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18 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

ndustry (which schematics are required for) and missions are completely different gameplay. Forcing players who are interested in the one to do the other makes no sense. It will reather force them out of the game.

Sorry, but that is part of the game. PvPers also have to do other things before they can shoot at others with their ships. Builders who want to build houses or ships also have to do other things first. I don't know anyone who does these "missions" because it's great to fly through space for hours. BUT, every player who does missions makes sure that there is more quanta in the system and exactly this quanta we need for taxes and schematics.
and yes, it is faster and easier, the more players fly these missions, so that not one player has to fly hundreds, but you can divide them.

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1 minute ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

Sorry, but that doesn't mean everybody wants or even needs to do that: "Make your mark in this new universe by playing whatever role you wish."

Exactly!
If everyone only did what they wanted, it wouldn't work anymore. We need quanta for this given system and players who bring them into the system, whether they want it or not. Those who only think of themselves in the system are selfish and only ensure that other players have to do more of what they don't feel like doing.

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3 minutes ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

 

 

... says somebody who speaks about "us all" when he actually means himself. Not everybody is like you and plays the game like you - especially not a new player. Get used to it.


 

I am not talking about all of us, but about me and how I see things. Moreover, I am talking about how we could build something better as a community. It's an idea, not a commitment.

I also think they have no idea how I play this game. Could it be that they have come to regard the issue itself as somewhat beside the point?

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3 hours ago, Zarcata said:

Sorry, but that is part of the game. PvPers also have to do other things before they can shoot at others with their ships. Builders who want to build houses or ships also have to do other things first. I don't know anyone who does these "missions" because it's great to fly through space for hours. BUT, every player who does missions makes sure that there is more quanta in the system and exactly this quanta we need for taxes and schematics.
and yes, it is faster and easier, the more players fly these missions, so that not one player has to fly hundreds, but you can divide them.

 

Honestly if NQ:

  • Uncapped the 30kmph speed limit for missions since you are forced to slow boat would make them better overall not just for missions by cutting down travel time.
  • Cut taxes in half per week or have taxes every 2-4 weeks on some kind of solar cycle as a standard alioth calander since we pay taxes once per year and not every month in RL so this system is quite jarring and disrupting to players.
  • Added Destructive Elements back in.
  • Added PvP cores to further allow PvP and also take more ore/parts out of the game with destructive elements and allowing PvP in atmo since you are flagging for PvP by using a PvP core that can be destroed inside the bubbles since you opt into PvP everywhere and PvP ends when your dynamic/static cores get blown up. But you opt into it and are willing to lose what is in the core.

All of that would do more to cut down on travel time for a Quality of Life pass that has been needed for a while. But also cutting taxes by half to slow down the forced speed tredmill or need to flood the market by 50% but then allowing Destructive Elements inside the bubbles based on a players skill or random mishaps to take items out of the game. Or opening up PvP in atmo with an opt in PvP core system to allow people who want to fight anywhere in the game to fight other people in the bubbles and not just in space that is optional and you choose what you want to lose in a PvP dynamic/static core and once destroyed, claimed, or salvaged PvP is over until you want to do it again or can afford to participate again.

 

Its time to simply and open up the game a bit. Something drastic needs to be done to turn this game around and those points will do more in the immediate future than anything else NQ can do to keep strangling people.

 

On top of that NQ actually needs to use the taxes collected and put it into an account and use that with the market manipulation script as how much NQ can buy from the market per week or every 2-4 weeks if the tax cycle changes. NQ should also have events using taxes collected to spawn basic PvE content as well by buying ore/parts and using that to automatically fill a blueprint for various cores as fighter wings or armadas in general. NQ could easily put a bunch of ships in a core with more weapons than players can put on ships and make some kind of rudimentary content if they put down XS cores with 2-3 small fighters, S cores with 5 or more fighters, M cores with medium/heavy fighters or a giant fighter wing, M cores with heavy fighters or a big ship suppoerted by different small, med, heavy fighter support, L cores with battleships, fighters, or XL cores with Armadas of giant carriers, battleships, fighter groups, etc.

 

They dont even need to move as much as have scripts to target and move the aim of the core at what they are aiming at if players fire on the fighters, battleships, carriers, or armadas. They have enough firepower to make you think twice but it creates the framework for group based or raid based content to happen.

 

NQ at some point could have GMs/Devs take control of them and move them if they dont want to add some basic AI to respond to PvP, or to move around space via a waypoint system autopilot has already to respond to where cores are being destroyed.

 

If the only way to get XL cores was by raiding NPC Armadas in basic PvE content in space it would make people have to fight them.

Edited by Warlander
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9 hours ago, Underhook said:

I dont have much quanta so I, like many others it seems have been selling ore.  I tried selling refined metals but they are even harder to sell.

There is a shortage of buyers so I have had to sell ore to buyers.  I decided it was time to do some math.

I have 4 hex currently producing T2 and T3 ore.

My estimated income per week is 12.5 mil less tax is 8.5 mil.  I'm not going to count calibration ore as it should roughly offset the MU that randomly turn themselves off.

After tax of 4 mil I'm left with 8.5 mil.  I have claimed a hex with a small amount of T4 and another with some T5 (currently HQ).

So, my next purchase will be a Rare MU for 23 mil.  So, thats 3 weeks away.  Income should then rise by 4.5 mil allowing for tax.  So total 13 mil.

My next purchase after that will be an Exotic MU .  Thats 64 mil.  So, another 5 weeks.

Then I'll be set.  So, this is based on current prices.  Mu prices might drop but so might ore prices.

 

The thing is.  I will not be purchasing anything from anybody (other than 2 MU) for the next 8 weeks at least.

If, many other players are like me, then, thats a long time with little economic activity.

Its also maybe going to be pretty boring, unfortunately.

 

 

Well, I will try and help you a bit by suggesting you can do missions.

 

I have a spacebase near Thades market 1 (60km away), the pickup point for aphelia missions is 0.60SU away (but I can get there through space!!).

-I pick up all the Thades missions for the safe zone. Those are 7 in total: 2 to the moons, 3 on thades markets (bring up about 350k), and 1 for Madis and 1 for Alioth (about 1.5 mil)

- I fly back to my space base and load the 5 missions in an L-container ship and the other 2 in a bigger ship (at least about 400Kl)

- The 5 missions I keep in the ship for when I get bored of building and want to fly around. These 5 can be delivered in 1 hour and bring in 350k

- I take the bigger ship to madis and off-load mission 1 for 670k quanta, then I pick up the Thades and Alioth mission from the Aphelia station on Madis.

-Go to Alioth market 12 to drop of packet 1 and then to market 16 (1.12SU) to drop of packet 2.

-Go to the Alioth mission station and pick up the madis and thades mission.

-Go to market 6 (30km)and pick up the items you have bought.

-Fly home to Thades Space base and drop off madis missions, deliver thades missions.

 

This is all slowboat and takes about 5-6hrs to complete and will get you around 4.5 mil (without the 5 small missions that is)

Obviously, The first time you only have 1 Madis mission

 

Do this 1 time a week and you can pay for your 4 hexes and save money for the thing you want to buy.

 

That being said, I myself have lots and lots of fuel stored..

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58 minutes ago, Sabretooth said:

Do this 1 time a week and you can pay for your 4 hexes and save money for the thing you want to buy.

Problem is that the process you just described sounds less fun then my actual real job, where I make real actual money. So why would I ever want to pay NQ just to be able to work a second boring job?

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21 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

Problem is that the process you just described sounds less fun then my actual real job, where I make real actual money. So why would I ever want to pay NQ just to be able to work a second boring job?

I agree with your statement,

But your answer has nothing at all  to do with the OP problem and my suggestion.

 

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38 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

I would imagine that having mechanisms for generating quanta that players can stomach in the long run, is crucial to the overall economy?

 

Rats. The only "easy and tested method" is having pve rats.

 

Weaker/less valuable rats closer in the Alioth bubble. The further away the difficult, and more valuable, rats will be located. Whomever gets the most damage on the rat gets to loot the container(s); anyone can salvage the parts.

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14 hours ago, Sevian said:

 

Rats. The only "easy and tested method" is having pve rats.

 

Weaker/less valuable rats closer in the Alioth bubble. The further away the difficult, and more valuable, rats will be located. Whomever gets the most damage on the rat gets to loot the container(s); anyone can salvage the parts.

This is one of the most requested features from people I play with. Could even create dynamic missions, if someone fails to land the kill during an "encounter" a new mission could be created to salvage that players ship and kill the NPC that killed them.

NQ has been again NPC's... but... Aphelia is an NPC. Goldstar event referenced NPC's. let's get some proper NPC missions/adventure going. Please. Also... where are my pets? kickstarter promised pets. 

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18 minutes ago, MiroD said:

I'm just getting started and your comments are not encouraging. This means that players who play longer have an advantage that I can never make up for due to system changes - and I dream of quanta at night

 

Yes and no.

 

In persistent sandbox like DU veterans always have advantage in some areas.

- game is very complex, so learning all details takes very long time

 

How ever in sandbox like DU you set your own goals. So setting them suitable for your personal level, you will be fine.

Only One who may have advantage over you is yourself.

 

 

 

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On 12/10/2021 at 10:23 AM, Warlander said:

Honestly if NQ:

  • ...

Sorry, but the root of the problem is that the initial game concept was designed around a free market which no longer exists and does not appear to be coming back.  Central planning of complex systems inevitably leads to corruption and/or failure.  Single points of failure are the bane of complex systems, and central planning is the worst example of a single point of failure.

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On 12/10/2021 at 4:23 PM, Warlander said:

 

Honestly if NQ:

  • Uncapped the 30kmph speed limit for missions since you are forced to slow boat would make them better overall not just for missions by cutting down travel time.

Yes please!  I will be carrying a mission package in my PvP ship along with every other PvP player ...

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