Jump to content

These tax rates are absurd.


Vhaeyne
 Share

Recommended Posts

On 11/21/2021 at 11:47 PM, Vhaeyne said:

In addition, you pay weekly. So, debt starts after a week of unpaid taxes. 

 

To take an extended vacation from the game, I would have to bust my ass saving for it and come back ready to grind right away. I could potentially come back too broke to fire my tiles back up and make any money.

 


There is no debt. Provided you are properly subscribed and have your 5 HQ marked tiles, you will not go into “debt”for not paying your taxes during the period you are on a break from the game. The taxes are not retroactive. When you come back, simply pay it then. There are no back-taxes. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Khyriss said:


There is no debt. Provided you are properly subscribed and have your 5 HQ marked tiles, you will not go into “debt”for not paying your taxes during the period you are on a break from the game. The taxes are not retroactive. When you come back, simply pay it then. There are no back-taxes. 

 

sure, if you decide to stop the hundreds of industry units in your base

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I look forward to the changes. We need more reasons for player interaction in the game. We need reasons to go to other planets. Right now the entire economy is on Alioth and there is little financial sense to leave unless you are a miner. After all, sales are done on Alioth, so you may as well produce there.

 

By allowing automated mining and making resources exclusive to certain planets, a variety of geostrategicly valuable locations are created throughout the system. Long time mining operations will now be established on all the planets, and production will move off Alioth as the real estate becomes expensive to use.

 

There will be quite a bit more encounters for PVP, and in the future I look forward to entire wars over geostrategically valuable locations on distant planets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, lunaprey said:

There will be quite a bit more encounters for PVP, and in the future I look forward to entire wars over geostrategically valuable locations on distant planets.

 

Or the player base will just shrink..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea, i have to agree. 

 

What ever the mechanic that NQ thought about for justifying taxes is not a urgent one. 

 

The taxes should be dynamic in nature with small adjustments every month. 

 

When ever NQ sees the need to raise the taxes, raise them.

But dont start with and absurd value thinking about how it will be needed in 10 years when DU has 10M players. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

When ever NQ sees the need to raise the taxes, raise them.

But dont start with and absurd value thinking about how it will be needed in 10 years when DU has 10M players. 

 

There are not going to be 10M players ever. The ceiling for this game would be like 500k to 1M tops, "if" the game was good. Last I tried to look, the active population was around 8k and bleeding. I am sure this update did some damage to that number too. 

 

It is depressing to play right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is big talk from NQ and NQ fanboys about a big player increase after "launch"; who are these people? Anyone can play the game right now, there is no reason to wait to launch in most mindsets.

 

This is already a super niche genre, if done well is still not very popular as far as gaming numbers go.

 

So besides everyone that is or has already played, who else is going to join? No one, this game is dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Sevian said:

There is big talk from NQ and NQ fanboys about a big player increase after "launch"; who are these people? Anyone can play the game right now, there is no reason to wait to launch in most mindsets.

 

This is already a super niche genre, if done well is still not very popular as far as gaming numbers go.

 

So besides everyone that is or has already played, who else is going to join? No one, this game is dead.

A lot of peole don't want to play a Beta (especially with so much bugs as DU have right now).
Also right now there is a lot of mechanic-changing updates and tweeks going on, you can't be sure what to expect.
"Launch" will be consireded from people around there that a game now is in a stable state.
I personally have a lot of friends that like the concept of DU, but won't be playing until the game hits it realese date.

 

16 hours ago, Vhaeyne said:

I am sure this update did some damage to that number too. 

 

It is depressing to play right now.

From what i see (discord activity, flying constructs at distant planets, ingame chat activity) this update bring numbers up, not down. Not sure if this will last long, but that's my observations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, W1zard said:

A lot of peole don't want to play a Beta (especially with so much bugs as DU have right now).
Also right now there is a lot of mechanic-changing updates and tweeks going on, you can't be sure what to expect.
"Launch" will be consireded from people around there that a game now is in a stable state.
I personally have a lot of friends that like the concept of DU, but won't be playing until the game hits it realese date.

 

From what i see (discord activity, flying constructs at distant planets, ingame chat activity) this update bring numbers up, not down. Not sure if this will last long, but that's my observations.

 

Of course, I want nothing more than for you to be right. I did not pop on the forums because I hate DU. I came here to voice my concerns. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The game is not dead.

 

This is a technology problem. A single server with thousands of players each creating their own objects.

 

It will be difficult for the game to die since technically this game does not require other players to play it. You can solo and do your own thing and essentially you are just playing legos in the cloud.

 

The future of the game though needs to encourage players to join together to take on common challenges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/24/2021 at 6:20 AM, Vhaeyne said:

Last I tried to look, the active population was around 8k and bleeding. I am sure this update did some damage to that number too. 

You are just making stuff up now, there is NOWHERE you can see the pop and general consensus is the game has got busier since patch for obvious reasons - people coming on to try stuff and protect their assets.

Autominers are not the only way to make money in this game, not sure why people are so obsessed with ORE.  I made billions hardly doing any mining.

- you can make stuff and sell it (using purchases ore)
- you can design stuff and sell BP (someone I play with sold three ship recently for 185 million EACH)
- you can do missions
- you can mine asteroids

Soon you will be able to find and take other peoples abandoned assets.  Think even a fraction outside the box and there are a lot of ways for even new players to pay the bills and make a good profit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

You are just making stuff up now, there is NOWHERE you can see the pop and general consensus is the game has got busier since patch for obvious reasons - people coming on to try stuff and protect their assets.

 

https://mmo-population.com/r/dualuniverse/

 

The entire Discord only has 20k users. Half of those users are not even active...

 

8k is likely a generous estimation of the player population.

 

Most of what I see in #discussion on discord are people talking about how shitty NQ or how NQ don't care to fix or balance "X".

 

If there is positivity out there, I have not seen much of it.

 

8 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

Autominers are not the only way to make money in this game, not sure why people are so obsessed with ORE.  I made billions hardly doing any mining.

- you can make stuff and sell it (using purchases ore)
- you can design stuff and sell BP (someone I play with sold three ship recently for 185 million EACH)
- you can do missions
- you can mine asteroids

Soon you will be able to find and take other peoples abandoned assets.  Think even a fraction outside the box and there are a lot of ways for even new players to pay the bills and make a good profit.

 

Finding and taking other people's stuff just because they did not pay their taxes is the most low-life way to play a game I could possibly imagine.

 

There is nothing balanced or rewarding about taking advantage of a shitty tax system. The game would be better off if the shit just got deleted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Vhaeyne said:

 

https://mmo-population.com/r/dualuniverse/

 

The entire Discord only has 20k users. Half of those users are not even active...

 

8k is likely a generous estimation of the player population.

 

Most of what I see in #discussion on discord are people talking about how shitty NQ or how NQ don't care to fix or balance "X".

 

If there is positivity out there, I have not seen much of it.

 

 

Finding and taking other people's stuff just because they did not pay their taxes is the most low-life way to play a game I could possibly imagine.

 

There is nothing balanced or rewarding about taking advantage of a shitty tax system. The game would be better off if the shit just got deleted.

In your opinion...... love people who think that their playstyle choices should be trust onto everyone.  Salvaging is salvaging, one mans trash is another mans treasure.  You are probably the sort of person who thinks pirates are evil too.  Well done for ignoring the other items on the list too lol.

BTW that population graph is completely made up, no idea where it gets its figures.  I would suggest population is probably lower than that, it is a beta, the game is still being made and a lot of people wont pay to play a beta, still cant work out why people are bothered about pop in a beta game.  Personally I am taking it casually until I see what the ACTUAL game is like before I start busting a blood vessel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

In your opinion...... love people who think that their playstyle choices should be trust onto everyone.  Salvaging is salvaging, one mans trash is another mans treasure.  You are probably the sort of person who thinks pirates are evil too.  Well done for ignoring the other items on the list too lol.

BTW that population graph is completely made up, no idea where it gets its figures.  I would suggest population is probably lower than that, it is a beta, the game is still being made and a lot of people wont pay to play a beta, still cant work out why people are bothered about pop in a beta game.  Personally I am taking it casually until I see what the ACTUAL game is like before I start busting a blood vessel.

 

If being a vulture is a valid play style then DDoSing the server every time something doesn't go your way should be a valid play style too.

 

Why not? "It's how they choose to play the game!"

 

Playing as a vulture literally invalidates every play style NQ has tried to balance. 

 

There will be a mad dash to get all the people's shit who quit for a few weeks, and then there will be less than 8k people with a bunch of shit they did not earn. GG

 

I ignored the other shit in your post because those are not the ways I choose to play the game. I gathered for myself and I built for myself. That was my play style and it was valid. I liked it. Everything me and my friends have we earned together.

 

The mission system is busted, and the asteroids are a fucking shitty underdeveloped mechanic. The devs manually add asteroids to the game one day a week. That is just shitty. The giga-brains at NQ can get a whole procedural universe going, but they can't automate asteroids in an intelligent way?

 

The population graph may not be 100% accurate, but there is zero reason to doubt that it's not in the right ballpark for this specific game. Before seeing that graph, I would have estimated that maybe 2k people play this game daily. I have played private servers with populations between 500 and 1000 with more active YouTubers, Streamers, Discord, Forums and Reddit. There is barely a web presence for this game. That population graph could very well be overestimating by a lot. 

 

Why am I so bothered by the game's population in beta? Because I have played betas where the devs refused to be sensible, and the game died on or before launch. Crowfall, Darkfall: New Dawn, Ever Quest Next. Many other decent MMORPGs are gone now too because the devs wanted to choose pay to win mechanics or just outright ignored what the players wanted. 

 

Also, there is the part where when I invested to Kickstart this game. I wanted the game they pitched in the video. Not this shit.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Vhaeyne said:

 

If being a vulture is a valid play style then DDoSing the server every time something doesn't go your way should be a valid play style too.

 

Why not? "It's how they choose to play the game!"

 

Playing as a vulture literally invalidates every play style NQ has tried to balance. 

 

There will be a mad dash to get all the people's shit who quit for a few weeks, and then there will be less than 8k people with a bunch of shit they did not earn. GG

 

I ignored the other shit in your post because those are not the ways I choose to play the game. I gathered for myself and I built for myself. That was my play style and it was valid. I liked it. Everything me and my friends have we earned together.

 

The mission system is busted, and the asteroids are a fucking shitty underdeveloped mechanic. The devs manually add asteroids to the game one day a week. That is just shitty. The giga-brains at NQ can get a whole procedural universe going, but they can't automate asteroids in an intelligent way?

 

The population graph may not be 100% accurate, but there is zero reason to doubt that it's not in the right ballpark for this specific game. Before seeing that graph, I would have estimated that maybe 2k people play this game daily. I have played private servers with populations between 500 and 1000 with more active YouTubers, Streamers, Discord, Forums and Reddit. There is barely a web presence for this game. That population graph could very well be overestimating by a lot. 

 

Why am I so bothered by the game's population in beta? Because I have played betas where the devs refused to be sensible, and the game died on or before launch. Crowfall, Darkfall: New Dawn, Ever Quest Next. Many other decent MMORPGs are gone now too because the devs wanted to choose pay to win mechanics or just outright ignored what the players wanted. 

 

Also, there is the part where when I invested to Kickstart this game. I wanted the game they pitched in the video. Not this shit.

 

That DDoS effort is probably the stupidist thing I have read on this forum and that is saying something. Going to love to see your posts when territory war comes.......

Really not surprised the game isnt as active on the web, it isnt live yet and it is not finished. Why would you overly market a game which is not complete, you just get angry people like you.  The fact they have not even HINTED at Steam yet for example, shows where they are in development IMHO.

Personally I enjoy asteroids, I enjoy the community, I enjoy selling stuff to people and buying stuff from people. I enjoy going to the casino and race nights.  I LOVE risk, I want to be attacked, I want to be able to lose stuff.  I want to be able to salvage stuff.  I DONT want to "gather for myself and build for myself" like some sort of hermit.  That is a gameplay style I really dont understand in a sandbox MMO, might as well go play a coop game.  But I have no issue if that is what you want to do, all good.  Just that one of us is enjoying the game and enjoying the content NQ is adding and the other isnt, doesnt make the stuff I like invalid.

"Playing as a vulture literally invalidates every play style NQ has tried to balance." What exactly does it invalidate? and why are they even trying to 'balance' anything now, nothing is valid until some sort of territory conflict is added, NOTHING.  Also, pretty sure that construct being abandoned and scavenging has ALWAYS been on the cards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kobayashi said:

That DDoS effort is probably the stupidist thing I have read on this forum and that is saying something. Going to love to see your posts when territory war comes.......

Really not surprised the game isnt as active on the web, it isnt live yet and it is not finished. Why would you overly market a game which is not complete, you just get angry people like you.  The fact they have not even HINTED at Steam yet for example, shows where they are in development IMHO.

Personally I enjoy asteroids, I enjoy the community, I enjoy selling stuff to people and buying stuff from people. I enjoy going to the casino and race nights.  I LOVE risk, I want to be attacked, I want to be able to lose stuff.  I want to be able to salvage stuff.  I DONT want to "gather for myself and build for myself" like some sort of hermit.  That is a gameplay style I really dont understand in a sandbox MMO, might as well go play a coop game.  But I have no issue if that is what you want to do, all good.  Just that one of us is enjoying the game and enjoying the content NQ is adding and the other isnt, doesnt make the stuff I like invalid.

"Playing as a vulture literally invalidates every play style NQ has tried to balance." What exactly does it invalidate? and why are they even trying to 'balance' anything now, nothing is valid until some sort of territory conflict is added, NOTHING.  Also, pretty sure that construct being abandoned and scavenging has ALWAYS been on the cards.

 

There won't be any posts from me when the territory wars come. I already talked it over with my org mates. None of them want to play if there are handout caches from players who already quit all over the place. If you could PvP for them, that would be one thing, but they ain't going to have atmo combat in time for that.

 

I love Risk vs Reward too, but I also don't love being a slave to a game every 13 weeks and I don't love people getting their free shit from their vulture play style with no risk.

 

I hope this game continues to satisfy you, and I hope it does well on Steam. Have a good rest of your day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Vhaeyne said:

 

There won't be any posts from me when the territory wars come. I already talked it over with my org mates. None of them want to play if there are handout caches from players who already quit all over the place. If you could PvP for them, that would be one thing, but they ain't going to have atmo combat in time for that.

 

I love Risk vs Reward too, but I also don't love being a slave to a game every 13 weeks and I don't love people getting their free shit from their vulture play style with no risk.

 

I hope this game continues to satisfy you, and I hope it does well on Steam. Have a good rest of your day.

This is a space civilisation MMO

You want to be Obi Wan - living self sufficient on your own
I want to be Han Solo - trading, taking risks and being a character in the community
Some people want to be empire - blowing up everyone that isnt them up in space
Some people want to be pod racers - making tracks and taking part in races
Some people want to be sand people - scavenging and salvaging the stuff others leave behind (people get free stuff with no risk from auto miners??? and safe zone missions)
Some people want to be space miner
Some people want to be industrialist
Some people want to be venue owners - space casinos, cool locations

Some people want to be ship / building designers - selling there wares to other players
etc

Not really sure how people enjoying these other play styles really effect you and your game to be honest, each to their own.  I am pleased NQ are opening up more of these gameplay paths and hope they continue to do so.

One thing I will say is, the people I know who really enjoy this game, are the ones who are most involved in the community side and are less tied up with solo survival style gameplay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is that with each new change NQ makes, fewer and fewer of those options seems like valid ways to be successful (relative term) in this game. And that is what make players leave.

 

You want to be Obi Wan - living self sufficient on your own
I want to be Han Solo - trading, taking risks and being a character in the community
Some people want to be empire - blowing up everyone that isnt them up in space
Some people want to be pod racers - making tracks and taking part in races
Some people want to be sand people - scavenging and salvaging the stuff others leave behind (people get free stuff with no risk from auto miners??? and safe zone missions) (Only temporarily until tax changes are stabilized and there are no/few tiles left to scavenge)

Some people want to be space miner
Some people want to be industrialist
Some people want to be venue owners - space casinos, cool locations

Some people want to be ship / building designers - selling there wares to other players

 

Also notice that the options left are all mostly typical aggressive MMO/PVP style of playing, and it is likely going to get even more aggressive with new feature added later. But here is the thing. MANY people joined DU specifically because NQ told us we did not have to play that way in this game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

Problem is that with each new change NQ makes, fewer and fewer of those options seems like valid ways to be successful (relative term) in this game. And that is what make players leave.

 

You want to be Obi Wan - living self sufficient on your own
I want to be Han Solo - trading, taking risks and being a character in the community
Some people want to be empire - blowing up everyone that isnt them up in space
Some people want to be pod racers - making tracks and taking part in races
Some people want to be sand people - scavenging and salvaging the stuff others leave behind (people get free stuff with no risk from auto miners??? and safe zone missions) (Only temporarily until tax changes are stabilized and there are no/few tiles left to scavenge)

Some people want to be space miner
Some people want to be industrialist
Some people want to be venue owners - space casinos, cool locations

Some people want to be ship / building designers - selling there wares to other players

 

Also notice that the options left are all mostly typical aggressive MMO/PVP style of playing, and it is likely going to get even more aggressive with new feature added later. But here is the thing. MANY people joined DU specifically because NQ told us we did not have to play that way in this game.

Can you tell me first hand the racing people you have spoken too that have an issue, or the venue owners?  Or the ship sellers?  Because those that I talk too are cool. Or are you speculating?

You can still do all these things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know full well that I am somewhat exaggerating the problems to make a point.

Sure there are always some who manage to be successful at <whatever>, but that does not mean there is not a general problem there for most others.

So the point remains valid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, CptLoRes said:

You know full well that I am somewhat exaggerating the problems to make a point.

Sure there are always some who manage to be successful at <whatever>, but that does not mean there is not a general problem there for most others.

So the point remains valid.

Take racing for example, ANYONE can start a racing team with one of the current events that goes on.  It costs next to nothing.  OK, I have no doubt it is harder to start a track but that is where the community comes in.  Venue owners as well, taxes dont effect them at all actually, you HQ the venue and then no problem. Ship builders, again no problem.....

I still think NQ could do a huge amount more to improve community cohesion though, it is probably the area which could have the most effect with limited development time, just allowing players to find out what other players are doing and integrate, for me, that is civilisation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you are not seeing the general problem here. There is now a MUCH greater need for people to hoard quanta and push ore on the markets.

And that means there is also less incentive to spend quanta on others and do big projects just for the hell of it, which is how the race tracks got made in the first place. And after demeter it is less likely they would ever have been made in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect that everyone is currently too bussy with setting up their autominers to bother fixing their trade routes (missions), so income is gutted until people have their autominers in place (I suspect the weekend). Another week before the setup is running optimally, meanwhile, next week people will start to fix their trade routes and get their quanta income stream up and running again. People will be scanning and claiming for a while. After that the next landrush will happen with territories being abandoned. The issue isn't is that people won't have the quanta for that, but that they don't have the time for it for a while, too many changes at the same time that require player attention.

 

I personally expect that after the first month of Demeter I'll have a 150-200 tile domain with quanta to spare (after paying all my taxes), that is without actually selling any of the ores I mined. I actually don't want to flood the market with ore, I'll be producing product and consumables that will be sold (or used myself). I'll be converting a tile to a quanta bathtub just to swim in all the quanta... 🙂

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

yes, this was a bonehead move by NQ. Most will leave the game and never return, especially after all the hard work they put in. Freeport will disappear. Congratulations NQ, you just broke your game with this taxes thing. I get the mining/digging changes to save money, but the taxes thing, and the broken auto mining will just not work. Change it....or lose your player base. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...