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INSIDE NOVAQUARK: DEMETER EDITION - Discussion Thread


NQ-Deckard
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15 hours ago, ReconDo17 said:

I will say this SOMETHING MUST be done about the low number of asteroids in the SZ 12 to 19 per week and over 130+ in the PVP zone per week come on, mark my words there will and have been players quit already due to bugs, crashes, and now the looming update and the low asteroid count in the SZ will only add to that number of people that don't come back and quit all together.  

And not just more in safe zone. This whole patch could be acceptable if asteroids had larger nodes. having to mine 100 5kl nodes on an asteroid is not fun. Make some larger, make some smaller, make some in between. Vary the size of the asteroids, some even smaller than what currently exists and some even larger. Allow territory scanners to work on asteroids. when the ore drops below a certain percentage on an asteroid de-spawn it and spawn a new one. These are all things that would allow asteroid mining to become useful and tolerable.

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12 hours ago, Draqolas said:

@NQ
As one of the people who kept complaining alot about the game.

It's time I show my appreciation as well.
I felt like you guys had a big weigh on shoulders deciding on removing the active mining from planets. DON'T BE SORRY!
Most of players who actually achieved something in this game are sick and tired of earthworm mechanic and i'm personally incredibly happy for this update!! Those who want hand mine, still can and will on asteroid!
SO just give us more asteroids and problem solved.
Thank you so much for the auto-miners.
I'm personally against this sniping tile mechanic. I just hope that this buff for having multiple tiles next to each other will compensate for the sniping of best tiles.
I also hope that tiles will be rather balanced so people who joined later will not be forced to live in shadow of those who sniped best tiles.

Just adding more asteroids does not solve the problem. We need more variety of asteroid size, more variety of node sizes on the asteroid, and territory scanners to operate on asteroids. Also, asteroids should not ever show as discovered. that state should go away and only the rumor/undiscovered and broadcast state should exist. And broadcast should take a minimum of 1 hour after someone touched down on the asteroid.

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3 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

Yes, this.  People were scanning and selling the good tiles and that was the reward.  But now they can go back and look at all the old rejected scans and cherry pick any good ones in there.

I'm in two minds about it myself.  On one hand it's compensation for all the valuable tiles they probably hold now which just lost all their value.  On the other it *might* (depending on how much coverage people have) mean that the only way to get a good tile 2 days after the update is to buy one for a lot of money at auctions.  Which seems a bit rubbish really, I'd rather have a proper goldrush where we all go out and scan like mad to see what we can find.

Now I'm wondering if, because of this, the same seed *should* be used on the production and test servers so scans done on the PTS before the update drops are valid.  I mean, if you're going to let some players start on day 1 with thousands of valid scans and go straight to the best tiles, why not even things up and allow everyone else to pre-scan tiles on the PTS and do the same thing?

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On 10/21/2021 at 4:28 PM, Zarcata said:

Will this type of mining yield enough ore to meet current and future demand?
 

I think the idea of the 'Calibration Charges' is going to be a severe limitation on the game and only result in horrendous ore price inflation, as the limit this will place on the global extraction rate is likely to result in not anywhere near enough to supply the game.

 

I understand the idea for including the efficiency mini-game, to keep auto-mining from being set and forget (though in my opinion it should be - the game is set 10,000 years in the future after all) but the introduction of these charges putting an arbitrary cap on the extraction rate will only lead to a shortage of available ore, so sparking ANOTHER inflation in ore prices.

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SUGGESTION: Maybe this will help alleviate some of the terrain issues.  Since digging for mining is not really a thing anymore on planets, could we maybe get some better terrain manipulation tools? Like a selection box, or a cube shaped digging tool? These wouldn't affect gameplay, if they were locked to planetary use. Just a thought.

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19 minutes ago, Zarcata said:

"A beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs."

Do we have a complete feature set?
Maybe we should not even call this Beta.

But being a MMO, this is bound to have new features every patch, even after release.

The question is more about the state of each feature. Are all the options, menus, mechanics of each feature, complete? If yes then that specific feature is in beta stage.
So I could swing both ways on this being alpha or beta.

The bottom point is, either alpha or beta, Bugs are expected. And database resets are also expected.

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everybody incl. NQ, I do have some questions regarding Demeter Mining update

 

  1. Will a mining unit work without having a tile scan first?
  2. Is the ore amount on a Demeter tile infinite?
  3. 1:12:30 in the video: If I scan the tile before Demeter update, then the scan result for that tile will get updated to the new tile values after Demeter update?
  4. How about ocean only tiles - will there be ore for mining as well?
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some questions about how to setup mining and industry:

 

  1. Is it possible after Demeter to have a static construct placed overlapping multiple territory tiles? The idea being that all the ressources of these multiple tiles get fed into the same industry running inside the same static core to avoid manual ore transfers. AFAIK there is no automated way to have multiple static constructs share the same containers / ressources.
  2. Server reset - will the mining units reset as well? Have they to be restarted manually by the player after server reset as currently with industry?
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some thoughts:

 

  • NQ wants to make players work / log in frequently / spend time and money (subs)
  • de-relict tiles will be cleaned up eventually by salvage - bad for some great looking abandonded constructions

 

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My main concern with auto-miners is that just like the current planets were scanned and all the good hexs were taken, won't this very quickly happen for the hexs which contain good resources as well.

 

While this is good for the people who log on in the first hour or two of the patch coming live and going through there old scans, how about the people who show up a day latter, a week latter, or join the game in three months time?

 

Every title in the safe zone with a good ore will be taken, and new players won't be in a position to contest outer planet hexs because if they are still safe zone they will largely be gone; and if they have the safe zone removed they will be protected by players who have good resources and good bank to guard them.

 

While I see one option as adding more planets or a new system, this will just make the place look even more empty as the player base spread over the galaxy.

 

The only solution I would see is that new solar systems are added and each is only then added one planet at a time. This will cause dense migration to a new safe planet. The new planets will need to be richer resource wise, otherwise why would the current userbase who already have good claims move along.

 

Just curious what the thinking is for new players long term options, other than being forced to join an org, with these new plans.

 

Oh and please release a new system, I want to explore, even if I have to travel for a week or more in a ship to get there! 

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6 hours ago, sysadrift said:

There's like five people who got rich from exploits.  A wipe would make a very vocal minority (of the already limited number of people who still play) happy, and the rest would leave. 

 

I am pretty sure the number of people returning AND the possible new influx woudl far outnumber those who would leave. No one is advocating a complete wipe, we'r etalking a reset with all constructs removed and delivered to inventory as blueprints, Quanta erased and talent points returned to the pool.

Many saying how they'd leave really would not, if they are still playing at this time, they woudl just dig in and start over. IMO NQ has nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing such a wipe. You may not agree, and that's fine.

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1 hour ago, CoyoteNZ said:

My main concern with auto-miners is that just like the current planets were scanned and all the good hexs were taken, won't this very quickly happen for the hexs which contain good resources as well.

 

While this is good for the people who log on in the first hour or two of the patch coming live and going through there old scans, how about the people who show up a day latter, a week latter, or join the game in three months time?

 

Every title in the safe zone with a good ore will be taken, and new players won't be in a position to contest outer planet hexs because if they are still safe zone they will largely be gone; and if they have the safe zone removed they will be protected by players who have good resources and good bank to guard them.

 

While I see one option as adding more planets or a new system, this will just make the place look even more empty as the player base spread over the galaxy.

 

The only solution I would see is that new solar systems are added and each is only then added one planet at a time. This will cause dense migration to a new safe planet. The new planets will need to be richer resource wise, otherwise why would the current userbase who already have good claims move along.

 

Just curious what the thinking is for new players long term options, other than being forced to join an org, with these new plans.

 

Oh and please release a new system, I want to explore, even if I have to travel for a week or more in a ship to get there! 

Why would you think all the good tiles would be gone in a few days, weeks, or even months? I still find mega nodes on Alioth. We are mining a Malachite mega node now.

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9 minutes ago, tlcjwb said:

Why would you think all the good tiles would be gone in a few days, weeks, or even months? I still find mega nodes on Alioth. We are mining a Malachite mega node now.

I'm talking about T4 and T5 which are rare as ants teeth. I have friends who are sitting on 1600+ scans. Not because they were waiting on this, just because they had them. As soon as they are on, they'll be searching through those scans and going for gold (pun intended).

 

I may be wrong, and the fact that you can only keep so many mining machines going will probably help, but it comes down to an expanding game with a non expanding resource.

 

The other issue is, either the tax will be high enough, that the game feels like a chore as you can't take a break for a few months without risking losing your hex, or the tax will be so small that the rich people will have dozens paid in advanced for years.

 

Both are a issue.

 

Its like Carriers on Elite Dangerous. Sure I saved up the billion+ to buy one, but I don't have one as I like to take breaks from games; come back six months latter. But with a tax or you lose all your toys you are forced to a schedule.

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1 hour ago, Jake Arver said:

we'r etalking a reset with all constructs removed and delivered to inventory as blueprints, Quanta erased and talent points returned to the pool.


Are we?  I heard what NQ said in the Q&A and it was nothing like that.  I heard them say, for example, that they wanted to make things as close to a clean slate as possible.  Keeping talents is nothing like that -- for example experienced players have fully boosted PvP ships on day 1 while new players need to wait a month just to get L gun chair boosts to max.

I think we really need to hear more from NQ about this topic.  A lot of people have stopped playing right now just on the suggestion of a wipe.  Why bother to mine, for example, if the rewards are about to get deleted.  I started playing at the start of beta *because* they said there would be no more wipes.  I had to stop after 0.23 because the way I want to play was just unviable.  Now I've been able to play again for a while, but now I'm stopped again waiting to see what happens and getting frustrated about that.

Can we just get some decisions made about this so we can get on with playing?

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6 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

Elite Dangerous?

Can't remember, but I'll take your word for it :)

 

The difference is in Elite dangerous, it's not that dangerous. You can quickly gain money with little risk. First doing trading, then doing exploring or mining. You can play completely in a non PvP group or solo if you wish. You aren't running out and grabbing territory which once you have you get to keep and everybody who joins latter has to travel further further to get the same benefits if they can find them at all.

 

Missions and Mining seemed to be the main way for noobs to make money in DU, and now you are taking away the ability to grind the mining to get ahead.

 

You can't compete in industry for ages as you are competing with people with a huge talent head start and probably better supply lines.

 

You can't compete with mining as there are hardly any safe zone asteroids and it takes awhile before you have the skills and resources to try and poach from the others.

 

You can't compete in trade (like ED) as people in the market are more talented.

 

It's going to make the new user experience feel slower and more unfair, or have people pressured into orgs to follow directions/orders in the hope for scraps handed down from the elite.

 

No I don't have a solution, just concerns.

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1 minute ago, CoyoteNZ said:

Can't remember, but I'll take your word for it :)

 

The difference is in Elite dangerous, it's not that dangerous. You can quickly gain money with little risk. First doing trading, then doing exploring or mining. You can play completely in a non PvP group or solo if you wish. You aren't running out and grabbing territory which once you have you get to keep and everybody who joins latter has to travel further further to get the same benefits if they can find them at all.

 

Missions and Mining seemed to be the main way for noobs to make money in DU, and now you are taking away the ability to grind the mining to get ahead.

 

You can't compete in industry for ages as you are competing with people with a huge talent head start and probably better supply lines.

 

You can't compete with mining as there are hardly any safe zone asteroids and it takes awhile before you have the skills and resources to try and poach from the others.

 

You can't compete in trade (like ED) as people in the market are more talented.

 

It's going to make the new user experience feel slower and more unfair, or have people pressured into orgs to follow directions/orders in the hope for scraps handed down from the elite.

 

No I don't have a solution, just concerns.

OK, about half of what you say there has nothing to do with wiping, and a chunk of it will get worse after a wipe.  For example the biggest, most organised PvP groups are going to rebuild fastest after a wipe and will get to those PvP asteroids before everyone else, then defend them, use them to get better weapons, etc.  


You won't be able to compete in trade either after a wipe if talent points don't get reset.  And even if they do the hardcore industrialists will train multiple alts to get their skills up faster than everyone else, as will the competitive PvP orgs to make money.  Schematics will gate the casual players from the market, allowing the serious players and big groups to own it again and it will be just like it is now after a few months.  Because they way it is now is the way the game tends to go with the current mechanics and those aren't changing.

Mission runners will get back mission ships, run 100million+ per day in packages and cause massive inflation in the market again.  etc.

I don't play ED myself, but I knew people who did and I did follow it at the time.  I remember the players were saying exactly the same things before launch -- some people had got rich from exploits which were no longer possible and nobody else would be able to catch up.  If I'm honest that was one of the reasons I didn't play it at launch and also the reason I started DU in beta *when they said there would be no more wipes*.
 

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