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DEVBLOG: THE FUTURE OF DU PART ONE: REFINING OUR PROCESSES - Feedback Thread


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23 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Sorry, but this is just the next iteration of "we heard you"

 

There is nothing substantial in this post, it does not commit to anything and just reiterates how NQ has failed to listen (which is not the same as hearing in case you wonder) to what their community is telling them.

 

That hey seem to think that much changed from Alpha is frankly very funny as they have just continued their attitude and ways from there with little to no change, that they seem to think or try to make the claim they did is probably the most worrying aspect of this post.

 

The proof wil be in the pudding here but based on the many previous attempts by NQ to spin their mistakes and shortfalls by not really taking ownership but pretend they will doe snot give me much hope for change.. But we'll see

 

oh come on, give NQ a break. I understand your concerns, but it's pretty clear that they have learnt their lesson by now. We all know that they are a good company at heart.

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Sorry, but this is just the next iteration of "we heard you"   There is nothing substantial in this post, it does not commit to anything and just reiterates how NQ has failed to listen (whic

Doing updates is fine but we need CONTENT like asap. We need new solar systems places to explore etc a actual working market without Ore bots etc, working mission system, NPC's to fight etc the list g

The effort to communicate more and involve the community in the development process is refreshing.  One thing that I think may help is if the snapshot used in the PTS was refreshed more frequently.  M

46 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Sorry, but this is just the next iteration of "we heard you"

 

There is nothing substantial in this post, it does not commit to anything and just reiterates how NQ has failed to listen (which is not the same as hearing in case you wonder) to what their community is telling them.

 

That hey seem to think that much changed from Alpha is frankly very funny as they have just continued their attitude and ways from there with little to no change, that they seem to think or try to make the claim they did is probably the most worrying aspect of this post.

 

The proof wil be in the pudding here but based on the many previous attempts by NQ to spin their mistakes and shortfalls by not really taking ownership but pretend they will doe snot give me much hope for change.. But we'll see

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

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lol gave invaluable feedback? you've lost over half your players due to NO customer service, not BAD i mean NONE at all, i opened a ticket the beginning of November when i lost a ship due to server error and had screen shots to prove it which i submitted and i think i got an email saying you guys closed the ticket just a week or 2 ago and nothing was ever done about it, that was before schematics.

 

Not to  mention MOST of the things you guys have promised the players in "coming  soon" patches you've failed to deliver on. The most recent being the mission system you hyped everyone up about, we all thought "oh finally some PvE stuff and a way to get quanta besides just login and the market and actually gives us something to do" aaaand here we are patched up with the missions system currently "disabled" though im sure itll most likely be disabled indefinitely.

 

Seems to me you guys are essentially a smaller shittier knock off of star citizen at this point until you can actually listen to your customers and follow through with atleast 1 of your promises.

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1 hour ago, willolake said:

I'm hearing a huge reliance on the PTS for farming out play testing, but I'm not hearing anything about what is supposed to motivate players to spend their time and energy in PTS. At the moment, I will never play in PTS when I could be "earning" with my time on the live server. I hope there are enough souls with time to spare to cycle on PTS changes for the thrill of bug hunting; may you be blessed.

 

I agree that this is a dilemma. Do I spend time experimenting in the PTS, or advancing my actual progress on the real server?

 

A suggestion that would help for those of us who build things: implement a JSON interchange format for blueprints, then allow us to copy/paste them, so that we can move them between the servers.

 

This would allow people to spend time building potentially complex things in the resource-rich PTS environment, then deploy them in the real environment. We wouldn't gain any material advantage - I could build a palace in the PTS, but I'd still only have a blueprint on the real server. However, the time on the PTS would become productive time, and we would be able to experiment with exotic materials, so we'd have an extra incentive to be there.

 

You could probably achieve this with another mechanism for moving blueprints, but I would suggest JSON because from time to time there are bound to be incompatibilities between the two worlds - a text based format is flexible enough for us to hand-mend things. Having a JSON format for blueprints would also open up a whole range of possibilities for external tools (material swapping, for example).

 

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15 minutes ago, Shaman said:

oh come on, give NQ a break. I understand your concerns, but it's pretty clear that they have learnt their lesson by now. We all know that they are a good company at heart.

 

I've been here for about 3.5 years. I have seen about 6 of these posts in that time, the first one about a year after pre alpha started. They are all the same in context and they all promise NQ will do better.. and then they really don't until the next post where they rinse/repeat.

 

Could this be the last one of these? Maybe and I hope so for sure, but I reserve the right to be skeptical until proven wrong in this case. Let's agree to hope for me being wrong. The "marketing speak" words are all there but at the same time, there is a lot of substance missing and frankly there is a good bit that really is not really aligning with the facts very well.

 

TL;DR .. it is a lot of words that really say very little

 

We'll see..

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What we are building here is ground breaking, it has a lot of potential for both NQ to make profit as well as player to experience an unprecedented MMO content, But with out honest feedback synergy is wasted.

 

A very positive push to right direction this is, thank you and keep it up we are here to help.

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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

I've been here for about 3.5 years. I have seen about 6 of these posts in that time, the first one about a year after pre alpha started. They are all the same in context and they all promise NQ will do better.. and then they really don't until the next post where they rinse/repeat.

 

Could this be the last one of these? Maybe and I hope so for sure, but I reserve the right to be skeptical until proven wrong in this case. Let's agree to hope for me being wrong. The "marketing speak" words are all there but at the same time, there is a lot of substance missing and frankly there is a good bit that really is not really aligning with the facts very well.

 

TL;DR .. it is a lot of words that really say very little

 

We'll see..

My friend, you seem bitter. And for as long as you have been here, it is understandable. However, now that there is a new CEO, give this new CEO a chance is all we are saying.

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12 minutes ago, Coeptis87 said:

lol gave invaluable feedback? you've lost over half your players due to NO customer service, not BAD i mean NONE at all, i opened a ticket the beginning of November when i lost a ship due to server error and had screen shots to prove it which i submitted and i think i got an email saying you guys closed the ticket just a week or 2 ago and nothing was ever done about it, that was before schematics.

 

Not to  mention MOST of the things you guys have promised the players in "coming  soon" patches you've failed to deliver on. The most recent being the mission system you hyped everyone up about, we all thought "oh finally some PvE stuff and a way to get quanta besides just login and the market and actually gives us something to do" aaaand here we are patched up with the missions system currently "disabled" though im sure itll most likely be disabled indefinitely.

 

Seems to me you guys are essentially a smaller shittier knock off of star citizen at this point until you can actually listen to your customers and follow through with atleast 1 of your promises.

I totally agree with this. Their ticket system needs a revamp. They need another company to run it, instead of the one they have now. Most tickets get unanswered. That is a good place for NQ to begin to fix things.

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10 minutes ago, UnscriptedVert said:

My friend, you seem bitter. And for as long as you have been here, it is understandable. However, now that there is a new CEO, give this new CEO a chance is all we are saying.

 

I expect that the new CEO is busy evaluating the viability to keep NQ alive by investing fresh money through the VC group he is CEO of as well. I _really_ hope he can do that and I certainly would love to see DU actually grow and become as close to the vision JC has as possible. For now, the company creating DU is on life support waiting for the verdict on being able to survive or not.

 

DU has great promise and it can be a massive game. NQ has so far not been able to really deliver on their promises and yes, I believe that the removal of JC from a decision making position may well have a positive effect over time. All I am asking for is they stop being unrealistic, look at what they can do in how much time and commit to doing that. If it takes two more years to deliver a release then that is fine with me and if they deliver a solid plan/roadmap and ask us for support through a cash shop or additional pledges then there is a real chance I may do that too..

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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

I expect that the new CEO is busy evaluating the viability to keep NQ alive by investing fresh money through the VC group he is CEO of as well. I _really_ hope he can do that and I certainly would love to see DU actually grow and become as close to the vision JC has as possible. For now, the company creating DU is on life support waiting for the verdict on being able to survive or not.

 

DU has great promise and it can be a massive game. NQ has so far not been able to really deliver on their promises and yes, I believe that the removal of JC from a decision making position may well have a positive effect over time. All I am asking for is they stop being unrealistic, look at what they can do in how much time and commit to doing that. If it takes two more years to deliver a release then that is fine with me.

Agreed. Given time, we will see what this new CEO can do.

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As a coder I am biased, but instead of “IF IT’S BROKE, FIX IT” I'd rather hear “IF IT’S MISSING, LET THE PLAYERS ADD IT”.


I get that most players in the long-run may be more interested in using stuff than building it. I also get that you may worry that opening up more flexibility is a Pandora's box that could lead to game-balance problems later. However, to quote that well-known fan of open-world sandbox space simulations, Voltaire: "Perfect is the enemy of good".

 

This is still a beta. You have a finite number of designers and coders at NQ, and a lot to do. You have another army of both out here in the game: stop trying to do everything yourselves! If you give us more API hooks and better tools, we will prototype things for you, and we will fill in a lot of the gaps for now, whilst you focus on the infrastructure.

 

With a modest number of additional hooks I'd say that we could have a community-run mission system and player markets already; they wouldn't be perfect, but they'd exist! If the community adds something and NQ later replaces it with something built-in, few people will complain as long as it is an improvement... and if it's not an improvement then arguably you should be spending your time on something else instead.

 

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I agree with Blaze.  This is clearly a generic customer pacification message.  "We hear you and will make stuff better"

 

Seriously, the their three goals are ...

'Gather feedback earlier' - They have been getting constant feedback since launch.

"Change their process to allow them to take feedback into consideration"  - What?  You need a process to allow you to stop ignoring feedback?

"Improve the quality of releases"  - They are going to do this by postponing releases  Yes, slower content releases is what this game needs.

 

So basically stop ignoring customers, and actually test updates.  I mean, not that those are bad things, but they are kinda basic practices every business should do, not something that will save a game on life support.  

 

And yes, I saw the part 1/3... Just above a month old post about 0.24 Phase One.  

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My feeling is they pandered to the wrong playerbase, designing and building is great, but only remains interesting for so long. DU needs its economy, pvp, space flight etc as much as the other side of the game and I hope they balance it out better.

Plus NQ will have to think seriously regards performance, they need players to enjoy the game, that means optimizing the hell out of it, to allow mid range systems to play the game too.

 

Hopefully they'll work something out.

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So 0.25 is around the corner because we get all these updates? 

 

I doubt they learned anything, future will tell if this is the new way of communication or just another "we heard you". 

Can't really say I hope it's true this time, they first have to REALLY communicate for a long time before I even remotely give them any credit 

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This game would benefit greatly from PvE. It would also benefit from Avatar vs Avatar combat. It would also benefit from 'STRUCTURED PvP'. So I really hope the DEVS are all playing 'Empyrion' (the real 'daddy' of this game, not Minecraft or eve) and learn how to do this properly and transfer it to an MMO. If Empyrion was an mmo and had voxel building, this game would not have any players because everyone would be playing that. So far: This game is fun and addictive, and its the ONLY voxel builder in town, so it has no competition. THAT WILL CHANGE! 

 

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Hello, I am a Legate of 1 Org and Super Legate of a sister Org under it, Here are my thoughts:

1) I am glad that NQ as a company is not going under and continuing to try to fix things within DU

2) Many people have made mention of the Combat side of things that need to be fixed, I agree with them on all 4 points

3) While mining is somewhat boring I believe I have an easy fix for the Economy of the game until you have fixed/upgraded mining:
Take out the Market Bots for Raw Ore and instead put back 1 market bot per market that is always looking to buy every Element at a standard rate.
This will put the focus on players selling ore to Orgs so that the Orgs can make Elements to sell to each other, other players, and to the market bots.
This will also put a floor on the price of elements which is one of the biggest problems of the game right now.
I have already put together a spreadsheet for all aspects of the game and, while it was tedious and took quite some time, it was not difficult. If you put a price of 20 quanta per liter of T1 ore as a base line you end up with a very easy formula to work with.
I feel that while mining is supposed to be a big part of the early game, the mid game is supposed to be more about what to do with your factory and your ships, as of right now there is little reason to even have a factory as a solo player or even as a small Org. This would fix that issue quite nicely.

4) We need some sort of replenishment of Territory Ore.
Due to the collapse of the economy after the .23 patch, a lot of the games ore was sold to the Market Bots in order to afford the Schematics.
Perhaps every 2-3 months, or every major patch, you could replenish 10% of all unowned tiles on a planet.
This would incentivize people to not take huge amounts of Territories as then those definitely wouldn't replenish.
It would also work to make people go scouting for those tiles that have been replenished.
Also if you simply reset those tiles completely then people wouldn't have tunnels all over the planet to have to contend with.
This would also work with my previous point for Orgs to have something to do with higher tier Ores in order to not have the market flooded with Warp Drives, but also make Warp Beacons something that everyone would want to try to get their hands on.
This would also give people a reason to have monthly trips to different planets to see whats going on there and to try to get their hands on a little of those juicy T4 and T5 Ores

5) I don't know what happened to the Mission System, but it seems you ran into some trouble along the way.
Right now a lot of players feel that there is little for them to do besides mine and build, this would help quite a bit towards re leaving them of their bordom.
Add in some NPC Missions for transport of cargo, a few NPCs that spawn at a specific location for a "Combat Mission", locate a derelict courier that just spawned for a "Black Box" of info, and the missions that Orgs would put out for others to accomplish and you would have a moderate increase in attention to the game.


6) Last, but not least, I know this has been an issue, and I do not have an answer, but something has to be done to allow players to at least fly near each other without having this massive de-sync and rubber-banding.
Perhaps you could make 1 of the planets a "Racer Planet" where there will not be Atmo/Ground Combat but instead make it an instance base world so that when you go to specific market or Territory you could enter a smaller virtual server where only a certain number of people could be on at any moment but this would allow them to race each other and not have those issues.
Again I don't know how feasible that would be but having some sort of "Portal" or "Entryway" to gain access to an "Instance" or like a "Dungeon" so that racing could be a thing would be a big deal

These are my thoughts and I hope you take them in the spirit they are offered, as creative criticism, not as a belittling of what you have accomplished. I am proud to say that I continue to play DU and I hope that, some day, this will be as big if not bigger than any other open-world sc-fi game. I Give huge kudos to everyone at NQ for what they have done and hope to see massive updates in the future.

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3 minutes ago, FrigoPorco said:

This game would benefit greatly from PvE. It would also benefit from Avatar vs Avatar combat. It would also benefit from 'STRUCTURED PvP'. So I really hope the DEVS are all playing 'Empyrion' (the real 'daddy' of this game, not Minecraft or eve) and learn how to do this properly and transfer it to an MMO. If Empyrion was an mmo and had voxel building, this game would not have any players because everyone would be playing that. So far: This game is fun and addictive, and its the ONLY voxel builder in town, so it has no competition. THAT WILL CHANGE! 

 

Yes, but JC's vision is more to the Eve side. They are still committed to deliver JCs vision of the game. No indication of any PvE. It would easily make me return to the game. That alone. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Taziar said:

Dude, you have two posts to your name, both of them consisting entirely of making childish insults at people.  Are you a Dev on a burner account or someone who failed so poorly at life you consider 'trolling' a fun way to spend the day?

Wait a second - because you trash the game with more posts, that somehow makes your posts more important?  If you hate the game so much, why do you bother coming here?  Why not move to another game? 

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5 hours ago, WooTiPanTz said:

Imo you forgot to mention one of the most important player feedback options THE BETA FORUM. What about all the responses to YOUR posts on the updates/patches. We need you to let us know you are reading our responses. For instance your post on: 0.24 Phase One - Discussion Thread NO Dev or staff have responded to the posts there. It seems you start posts but I rarely see staff respond or interact after that. For instance what are you going to do about the issues mentioned in the post referred to above?

I have been wondering about this very thing myself. Glad someone brought it up. Thought it was just me.

EDIT : Thanks to someone posting it, there is a working link for PTS now. It never would show up for me in the past. Now it works. Thanks to those posting this. I'll post it here in case others didn't see it.

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/forum/50-public-test-server-feedback/

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1 minute ago, Reagan said:

Wait a second - because you trash the game with more posts, that somehow makes your posts more important?  If you hate the game so much, why do you bother coming here?  Why not move to another game? 

 

My posts, whether you agree with them or not, were actual thoughts about the game.  Not posts consisting entirely of "Waaaaaaaahhh".  

 

Though I find it interesting that you, a brand new account jump to the defense of another brand new account and between the two of you have not talked about the game at all, and instead directly target people critical of it. I originally made the Dev comment somewhat in jest, but ...

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