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Bernarr

Piracy != Griefing

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I'm seeing a lot of people associating the noble lifestyle choice of Piracy with low-class griefing. This is completely untrue. While some pirates may be griefers and some griefers may be pirates, Piracy is not Griefing.

 

Griefing is the simple act of doing something to anger someone. Destroy a project or what have you.

 

Piracy is a way of life. We provide those fringe services you may not be able to find through completely legal means. We also provide completely illegal services to law-abiding citizens who may have need of our particular skills. Smuggling, spying, espionage, sabotage, information brokering, to name a few of these services. We get our hands dirty so yours stay clean in the public eye. 

 

Does this sound like something you'd be interested in? The first thing you need to do is read over our Articles of Agreement-

http://www.chucklingcasket.com/articles-of-agreement/

If you have any questions, you can message me here, jump on discord ( https://discord.gg/x928Zpm ), or use our contact form ( http://www.chucklingcasket.com/contact-us/ )

 

This being said, if I come across some disgustingly ugly structure, I will level it, and I will grief you until you build something beautiful to make up for whatever monstrosity I destroyed initially.

 

Are you in an organization, but want to have a safety net along with some extra coin? Contact me and we can work something out  ;)Yes, it involves you being a spy.

 

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Shooting anyone you come across outside of a safe-zone at your own discretion is considered a use of game mechanics and, if anything, is encouraged.

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I can't tell if this is a discussion post or an advertisement.  ;)

 

Regarding the former, I agree with you completely, that piracy does not equal griefing. I can't think of anyone here on the forums being significantly outspoken about griefing and pirating being the same thing, but perhaps that's just because I'm never looking.

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Well, it was started as a discussion.. Then I got sidetracked for a while and when I came back, lost my train of thought so ended it with an advertisement lol

It wasn't just on the forums, a lot of discord people make the same assumption.

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The value of stability, of law, and of order are directly proportional to the cost of the risks and threats that exist in any closed system. Accepting this, I sincerely hope that piracy, crime, and conflict exist in great numbers. I have personally always understood the distinction between piracy and grief, though many grieve following piracy.

Discovering the balance between law and lawlessness is the adventure of emergent systems.

...while you contemplate the need for fortified bunkers to face the threat of piracy or the need for epic weaponry to acquire juicy loots, please remember SLI is here to satisfy all comers.


 

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Just thought I would chime in here.

In my opinion, an act of piracy ceases to be such when the pirate inflicts undue or unnecessary ​harm to someone or something whether it be before, during, or after they have accomplished their goals.

 

Let's say the object is to steal something, and in this case, it can be done easily without killing the targeted player or destroying something of his. If the "pirate" then proceeds to level the target's base, he has crossed the line between piracy (stealing something) and grieving (causing undue harm).

 

That is a drastic example, but I think you guys get what I mean. I am looking forward to all the challenges that will arise from pirates in the game, I just hope there aren't too many who consider ANY collateral damage as just "part of being a pirate". If you are a skilled​ pirate, then you should be able to obtain your objective with minimum damage to the target, unless of course dealing damage is​ the objective!

 

So, how skilled do all you pirates intend to be?.......just saying. :D

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I just do whatever I want as long as it's within the EULA - I don't really care about labels this community will give me. If my victims feel like I'm a griefer - well, so be it.

 


Let's say the object is to steal something, and in this case, it can be done easily without killing the targeted player or destroying something of his. If the "pirate" then proceeds to level the target's base, he has crossed the line between piracy (stealing something) and grieving (causing undue harm).

 

lol. Can't say more about this

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Just thought I would chime in here.

In my opinion, an act of piracy ceases to be such when the pirate inflicts undue or unnecessary ​harm to someone or something whether it be before, during, or after they have accomplished their goals.

 

Let's say the object is to steal something, and in this case, it can be done easily without killing the targeted player or destroying something of his. If the "pirate" then proceeds to level the target's base, he has crossed the line between piracy (stealing something) and grieving (causing undue harm).

 

That is a drastic example, but I think you guys get what I mean. I am looking forward to all the challenges that will arise from pirates in the game, I just hope there aren't too many who consider ANY collateral damage as just "part of being a pirate". If you are a skilled​ pirate, then you should be able to obtain your objective with minimum damage to the target, unless of course dealing damage is​ the objective!

 

So, how skilled do all you pirates intend to be?.......just saying. :D

a) Losing 99% of your assets (trading goods, items, ships) is a possible outcome of piracy. That, to some people, may cause some grief. Sure, it's not a direct attack, but it's part of the game's mechanics. 

 

B) I plan on razing many a person's base to the ground. I don't believe in eye for an eye, I like to hand out destruction without having a provocation towards it -- or a profit, as far as piracy is a concern.

 

c) The point is causing enough destruction, that people give up in hopes of their ships' not being totalled in the process. Infamy is the only trait a pirate needs, not persuasion.. Talking with the prey on an ambush is bad-guy folly #1. No smart pirate will give you time for your reinforcements to arrive.

 

d) I am a knave who prefers ambushes and long-range surgical strikes with missiles Skill is irrelevant when you can blow the propulsion off a target's ship and then pummel them to submission from a distance.

 

Beyond that, I am in favor of griefing a person, especially as a retaliation for "talking big". It's a good demosntration of "speak of the Devil and he may appear".

 

BUT, I am not in favor of people harassing people in a game. Blow their ships, be civilised. They blow your ships, be civilised.

 

Cheers.

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Let's say the object is to steal something, and in this case, it can be done easily without killing the targeted player or destroying something of his. If the "pirate" then proceeds to level the target's base, he has crossed the line between piracy (stealing something) and grieving (causing undue harm).

 

And no. Technically, they have crossed the line between piracy (the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea) and murder (the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another), not withstanding that the definition of piracy within it implies a premeditated unlawful act of aggression which is highly likely to result in the death of some or all involved.

 

Technically in the above scenario, there is no clear griefer (ˈɡriːfə/) (in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment).  

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I told you people don't seem to understand the difference between piracy and griefing. "OH MY GOD YOU KILLED MY PIXELS, Y U GRIEF ME?!?!?!" Don't like death being part of the game yer playing? Stay in safe zones where there is no PVP or go play farmville and pvp some potatoes.

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I feel that the community team may have quite a bit of work on their hands with all the "HE DONE GRIEF ME" reports. Lets just hope they don't get a shoddy automated system to deal with it.

 

In terms of the definition of certain actions (robbery at sea = piracy, killing someone is murder, etc.), none of them will be against the rules as NQ has no rules for ingame activity. It's when you start doing things whilst not in character (like verbal harassment in chat or disclosing where you live and threatening to kill you irl) is when NQ becomes involved. Yes, your character can vow revenge against their character. No, you cannot threaten/blackmail them with irl information (especially if it is personal or sensitive).

 

As a butler once said, some people (griefers) just want to watch the world burn. As long as it does not spill into real life (or bypass ingame systems, like a bug), then NQ does not need to do anything.

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I feel that the community team may have quite a bit of work on their hands with all the "HE DONE GRIEF ME" reports. Lets just hope they don't get a shoddy automated system to deal with it.

 

In terms of the definition of certain actions (robbery at sea = piracy, killing someone is murder, etc.), none of them will be against the rules as NQ has no rules for ingame activity. It's when you start doing things whilst not in character (like verbal harassment in chat or disclosing where you live and threatening to kill you irl) is when NQ becomes involved. Yes, your character can vow revenge against their character. No, you cannot threaten/blackmail them with irl information (especially if it is personal or sensitive).

 

As a butler once said, some people (griefers) just want to watch the world burn. As long as it does not spill into real life (or bypass ingame systems, like a bug), then NQ does not need to do anything.

I agree, I want to see the world burn, but I wouldn't go for harassment in-game or outside it. I believe at 50 missiles, I got my point across. And for revenge" in-game, I would just let bombs do the talking for me. I mean, if I am hired to level an industrial complex because capitalism is cutthroat, tough luck, whoever the owenr of said industrial complex may be. I don't have a beef with you, I just follow the Emergent Gameplay I chose dive into.

 

I hope NQ just focuses on harassment in conversations via an automated system that detects words used and then an admin going thorough the highlighted areas to determine if there was indeed verbal abuse going on, or at least, to get an understanding of the context involved if a person reports said conversation.

 

However, I do hope there's no "report the guy who I tried to gank up to but had a carrier fleet behind him" button, for all those "pirates" who can't understand the golden rule of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."

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However, I do hope there's no "report the guy who I tried to gank up to but had a carrier fleet behind him" button, for all those "pirates" who can't understand the golden rule of "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."

 

If they don't understand that they shouldn't be flying something they can't afford to lose, they aren't pirates. 

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Way i like too see it is if a player comes at you and dies many times trying to revenge kill you thats their problem.

 

If you repeatedly hunt that specific player for no significant reason and make their game a misery then thats griefing it has nothing to do with piracy and calling yourself one is an insult to piracy.

 

But targetting a specific organisation due to war or whatever and happening to kill the same player repeatadly is not griefing theres a fine line.

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Someone can view watching their ship blow up as 'griefing' if they feel so inclined. Hey, if it was a bling capital ship then who's to argue? On the other hand, if said ship dies in a fire outside the well defined borders of Arkland, then who's to stop it? If the game is modeled in this fashion then cry havoc. 

 

That's the allure of a sandbox game. You get out there and make it what you want it to be. Do whatever it takes. You want to see the universe as black and white? Go for it! You like a world in shades of gray? Do it! Dynamic stresses are what makes it worthwhile. Persevere and survive. Make an experience worthy of a thousand tales.  

 

Long live Bretheren of the Coast!

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The thing is it doesn't matter what each individual player's definition of griefing is.

 

It only matters what NovaQuark's definition of griefing that necessitates action on their part, is.

 

There are plenty of things players can do in a pvp game that may cause other players grief.  But that's not the same thing as griefing.

 

To me "Griefing" is not the act of pissing off another player.  It's the whole process of someone wanting to piss off another player so badly in their tiny little head that they cross a line that requires a moderator to step in.

 

People will get mad when there's PVP and sometimes people may feel a bit of grief when they loose a ship or something.  But it shouldn't feel so bad that it ruins anyone's day.

 

Griefers are the ones who try to break that balance.

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The thing is it doesn't matter what each individual player's definition of griefing is.

 

It only matters what NovaQuark's definition of griefing that necessitates action on their part, is.

 

There are plenty of things players can do in a pvp game that may cause other players grief.  But that's not the same thing as griefing.

 

To me "Griefing" is not the act of pissing off another player.  It's the whole process of someone wanting to piss off another player so badly in their tiny little head that they cross a line that requires a moderator to step in.

 

People will get mad when there's PVP and sometimes people may feel a bit of grief when they loose a ship or something.  But it shouldn't feel so bad that it ruins anyone's day.

 

Griefers are the ones who try to break that balance.

in my opinion, as long as the whole poop-fest doesn't spill in the real world, it's not harassment, which is the only thing NQ should intervene in.

 

Blowing up a ton of ships or even an entire space station, that's just emergent gameplay. Spewing a sewer's worth of a vocabulary to someone for blowing your ship up  or spewing a sewer's worth of slurs to someone because you blew their ship up, is harassment and should be punished. 

 

Blow up ships, just don't be uncivilised. That's the fine line between piracy and griefing. In EVE, I have been blown up quite a few times by pirates, I never bothered sending a message and even when they started to strike a convo as of the battle, I maintained a civilised approach and discussed the fight which I lost or won.

 

There's a difference between being a ruthless pirate and being a vicious person by trying to inflict agony through humiliation of someone witth insults.

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I agree with most of the sentiment here.  Griefing can be defined in many ways from person to person.  Killing a fellow player in a PVP game via the act of piracy is not griefing, IMO.  I personally plan on doing my fair share of killing (and dying) in this game.  Otherwise, I don't want to play.  I'm tired of vanilla games that cater to people who don't want any actual game play in their games.   IMO, if you don't want to die - ever - then don't play a game with PVP in it.  Simple solution.

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1: I don't play these "games" for the gameplay - I play them to live in an evolving online world/universe.

2: My preference is that occurrences of pvp combat would be about the same as the occurrences of pvp combat in the real world.

3: More asshole gamers who grief and kos simply because they can without suffering the pains they would have to deal with in real life.

4: But that's what safe zones are for DU.

5: Piracy != griefing  A number of ways to schedule conflict with players who are interested in conflict without griefing players who aren't interested in conflicted. Griefing should be character v character rather than players griefing players.

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in my opinion, as long as the whole poop-fest doesn't spill in the real world, it's not harassment, which is the only thing NQ should intervene in.

 

Blowing up a ton of ships or even an entire space station, that's just emergent gameplay. Spewing a sewer's worth of a vocabulary to someone for blowing your ship up  or spewing a sewer's worth of slurs to someone because you blew their ship up, is harassment and should be punished. 

 

Blow up ships, just don't be uncivilised. That's the fine line between piracy and griefing. In EVE, I have been blown up quite a few times by pirates, I never bothered sending a message and even when they started to strike a convo as of the battle, I maintained a civilised approach and discussed the fight which I lost or won.

 

There's a difference between being a ruthless pirate and being a vicious person by trying to inflict agony through humiliation of someone witth insults.

meh

Can't humiliate me via words. 

Sticks and stones....

It is possible to ruin my experience by destroying in a matter of minutes what I've spent hours, days and weeks building.

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meh

Can't humiliate me via words. 

Sticks and stones....

It is possible to ruin my experience by destroying in a matter of minutes what I've spent hours, days and weeks building.

Which, as the Devs have said, you can rebuild with the way the deployment of core units work (core uits create a voxel grid and save it as a "map" more or less, which can be saved as a blueprint).

 

While you may have a thick skin, many a person do not share that distinct social evolution feature. Some people get offended if you win a fair fight with them and say "GG" - I know many an archer in Landmark got a bit touchy when I said "GG", because hey, how dare I know how to play with a shield and sword and some Damage Return armor.

 

I mean, we got to expect some people won't understand the concept of "borders" at first in the game. They wil lget into an area they shouldn't and they are gonna be ganked by pirates and the poop-fest will reach astronomical levels of saltiness, with reports being thrown around. That's what people have to distinguish. Going into a dangerous area? You got ganked? You lost your overly expensive mining barge (essentially a giant container in DU's context) ? Tough luck, risk and reward. Sometimes, the risk is too high and if the money ain't worth the risk, don't take it.

 

Where I'm going with this, is that yes, I may ruin your (or anyone's) fancy base, but it's not NQ's fault you built it out of a safezone (or within a territory unit's protection bubble / shield. 

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They didn't get offended by you saying GG. They didn't agree with you that the fight was fair.

(Especially since the PvP combat in Landmark was never considered to be well-balanced by weapon choice.)
 

We'll have to see how easy or difficult it is to travel between safe zones without being griefed.
And we'll have to see the degree to which the DU design caters to and supports griefing.

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