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Ask Aphelia Episode #9 - Schematics Edition Discussion Thread


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Just now, Sawafa said:

The difference here is you can get ores very easy in very big amounts, but schematics supply is quite limited. Even with markets. Something similar, by the way, goes about plasma and T5 elements.

Not if you can't make enough warp cells or ship elements to go get the stuff.

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1 minute ago, FatRillos said:

Not if you can't make enough warp cells or ship elements to go get the stuff.

The time will show. But, if you can't afford warping you still can use usual slowboating... Do not see problems here. There were time when warp cells price was 15k+ (even 30k+, if i remember correctly), and it was OK. All will cost much bigger prices than what it's now.

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6 minutes ago, Sawafa said:

The difference here is you can get ores very easy in very big amounts, but schematics supply is quite limited. Even with markets. Something similar, by the way, goes about plasma and T5 elements. Som because of this limited supply of schematics it's not directly equal to just a new resource.

 

So the band aid holding the entire game's economy together will be a highly limited resource that can be gained in an infinitely increasing scale depending on how many accounts you're willing to pay for.

 

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Its obvious that neither side will win this conversation, and that NQ doesn't care about player input.

I have already made up my mind that these changes kill the game for me. There is nothing that is going to happen at this point, short of NQ not deploying the changes that will get me to continue playing, and supporting DU.

However since NQ is looking for ways to "Fix" stuff I think we should apply the same schematic fix to PVP.  Its easy.

1. All weapons now need a Charge to be able to fire. (Oh and they will still need ammunition)
2. you can buy a Charge from Aphelia so that you can make additional charges 
3. you have 5 slots to produce additional charges to apply to your weapons. (Small time and quanta investment will apply)

so that now it can cost millions of quanta to fire your weapons in PVP. This way you really need to think about if you should fire or not.  This should cut down on the amount of people engaging and PVP and solve the whole issue.

Granted I think this is the stupidest idea ever. Much like applying the exact same ideas to industry. But ask yourself if we as the player base stand by and say nothing at what point does the AFK timer BS stop. When will be able to just play the game in the sandbox we were promised and have a good time.
 

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2 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

So the band aid holding the entire game's economy together will be a highly limited resource that can be gained in an infinitely increasing scale depending on how many accounts you're willing to pay for.

Hey you want to join our org. if we combine our band aids we might be able to make a ship

 

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7 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

So the band aid holding the entire game's economy together will be a highly limited resource that can be gained in an infinitely increasing scale depending on how many accounts you're willing to pay for.

 

The same was said about Mining Units before intoducing them into the game. But look, now we have a decent amount of not needed ore. I think something similar will hapen with schematics. so it will not be so "highly limited" resource. But it's impossible to us, players, predict it right now.

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at this point why not keep the actual schematic system but allow us to use that new system you guys made to purchasse them instead off running all over the planets to get them and forget the consumable part. this would be a compromise most ppl would agree on

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1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

My point is that Industry already has all of that.   To make things you need stuff, these new schematics are just more stuff, you can call it a schematic, or Pure Iron, either way it's just a component in a recipe.

 

While I can see your argument, I also feel you are missing the point. It's not about "another ingredient".

But let's, for argument's sake, go with that for amoment.

If I need Pure Iron in the recipe and it runs out:

 

  1. Open the input container
  2. Drop more Pure Iron in
  3. Close container

 

If  the runs on the schematic run out:

  1. Open the industry element interface
  2. Click "Stop" 
  3. Click the "Schemtic Bank" tab
  4. Drag the new schematic to the element
  5. Click the "Schemtic Selection" tab
  6. Select the relevant item to make
  7. Click the "Production" tab
  8. Click "Start"
  9. Close the interface

 

This whole thing is, yet again, NQ not doing any actual analysis of the process they are changing and how their changes will affect the user experience. It is coding devs doing what a game designers and/or UI/UX designer should be doing under control of a project manager who gets the final call on whether it all makes sense and should question anything that doesn not.

 

The lack of a proper vetting process is possibly the biggest issue NQ has in how they operate. And I say that because if an actual project manager wuodl be involved here, this would not even have passed the design stage, becaus ethe procerss is not working.

 

I get what NQ is trying to do and can see why they are, but the way they go abaout it (ance again) just makes things worse and not better. ANd I'm sorry to say, but a common factor in all these mistakes is starting to emerge. Not laying blame there though, but I am laying blame with whomever is not managing this properly.

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I understand why this should be implemented.

But 5 copy slots is nonsence. industrialists must have some self-sufficiency and not rely in every run on copies availability on market

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2 hours ago, Lavayar said:

I understand why this should be implemented.

But 5 copy slots is nonsence. industrialists must have some self-sufficiency and not rely in every run on copies availability on market

 

The limitation seems not so much temporal as financial.
Figures that we have seen is 2,000,000 quanta per day to do research thoroughly.

A single character can still search for a fairly large amount of schematic over 24 hours.

 

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The schematics will be refunded at the current market value... if I check I can't even find in the market the schematics so what is the current price for them? To make the warp factory industry work again I spent a huge amount of quantas and a lot of time, How all this will be refunded? It is not that clear, the answer in the video was very fast and not detailed.

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why i always hate the changes in this game guys NQ make something what is don't make people loose progress in game why every time you make armagedon when i as a hardcore player loose my stuff in game (end most important  is i loose time what i spend to get any of that thinks ) money is not matter  My Life Time! is matter end when i play i like to have it least respect to my personal time what i spend to get schematics just think about one of my schematic cost  around 200 million just think how much time i spend to digging out ore end do other stuff to get schematics like that end now you just drop my live time in the binn!!!!!!!!!!! end other players who hardened by your armagedon updates et list to show players respect just live schematics what is already on hands of players as Master schematics!!!!!!!!!!

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I don't get it, these schematics are annoying as [filtered]. If u want to add a econemy, just add durability to those thruster, engines etc.

If a "item" drops under 30% durability it looses efficiency and need to replace it. It' so simple, i realy don't get it.

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Not sure if this was already suggested so will post my thoughts

 

Why not allow us to buy the schematic as a copy using this system for use or sale on market, but then also for a much higher cost allow us to buy the master copy which can not be sold on market but never runs out and has so many runs per 24 hours much higher than a copy say 10x and you are only allowed a max number of each master if the intention is to cap an ability to mass produce solo but a group can buy more masters and produce more together 

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3 hours ago, Eckarin said:

Why not allow us to buy the schematic as a copy using this system for use or sale on market,

 

6 hours ago, Yoarii said:

@NQ - will be able to pay for the copying using the organization wallet or maybe make our copy slots available to the organization?

 

the only fix to the schematic that NQ will allow is for you to purchase additional alts until you meet you SC requirements 

 

 

6 hours ago, Aviator1280 said:

The schematics will be refunded at the current market value...

 

what does NQ care about giving us the quanta back for purchased schematics, they are going to wipe the game anyway. Its just a carrot

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And what about those of us that bought schematics before the price drop, are they going to return at the same rate or are we going to get screwed again by only actually getting half our money back?

 

Not that it matters if they wipe the money anyway, it's all semantics. 

 

I still don't understand how we're trying to do final economic balance things before instilling very basic gameplay loops. This is madness to me.  Just seems like they're going to have to do all this again. 

 

I mean every time we've complained about a decision they've made, they tell us we're wrong and then months later they do exactly what we suggested in the first place. Happened with schematics with taxes with collision and obstruction. It's almost as if they are doing things under the veil of their customers are dummies and they know better. Then a few months down the line analytics tell them they we're idiots and we we're right and they finally do something that's inline with the game we actually want to play. 

 

Frustrating when they could just skip the stupidity and make the game people actually want to have fun playing and not treat like a second job.

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41 minutes ago, FatRillos said:

And what about those of us that bought schematics before the price drop, are they going to return at the same rate or are we going to get screwed again by only actually getting half our money back?

 

I can see this getting introduced around the same time NQ finally announces the wipe and so they will not have to bother with refunding.

 

I'm very much in the camp that expects to see DU being "released" within the next 6-10 weeks. As NQ will start charging DAC, I think it makes sens to expect a 1st of the months start and from that either 1st September (2 years after beta) or 1st October (5 years after pre alpha) would make sense.

 

Pretty sure we'll get 1-2 weeks "head start" for backers and NQ should really take the oppoertunity to get beta key holders to buy subs by offereing them the head start as well if they do. So that puts the wipe 4-9 weeks from now.

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If Copy will cost quanta,why not just buy Schematic copies?

or better,player can use SCHEMATICS in all  industry unit when player studed.

Above all,Why must we spend so much time on industry.

There should be more way for players to spend their products (eg.more battle,npc,boss,Mission System),

instead of limiting productivity.

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This is one of the most stupid broken mechanics I've seen NQ not only suggest, but apparently they also have implemented it, and knowing how arrogant they are they ABSOLUTELY won't accept that it's a stupid idea, even with tons of feedback here in the forums, but will push it into production.

 

NQ managed to make Schematics even worse than they already were, and are in the way of making this game a completely "not-a-sandbox" game, by trying to shape their "player-driven" game and economy their own way.

 

Please, if there's one thing I *hope* NQ employees listen is how stupid this change is going to be, specially by making consumables something you need to go and get individual Schematics for. I'm sure this will be yet another exodus of players, and this time not only I'll leave with them, but I'll make sure to spread the word on how broken this game has became and how NQ clearly doesn't care about the player base, but just about making alt-exploitable (P2W) mechanics.

 

So much for this game...

Edited by Wolfram
Fixed typo
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How is it that you can get the message that the crafting system you implemented that had so many players stop playing because of how restrictive it was and how the barrier to entry was too high and decide the solution is to take the prohibitive system you have and then TIME GATE that construction process?

Like lets look at FUEL. A ship needs 10kL of fuel to fill a tank, each 100L of fuel needs 1h to create the schematic and around 3h of pures schematics to produce the hydrogen and fuel metals needed to craft that 100L of fuel. So we are looking at ~100h of timers to be able to fill a fuel tank which will run out in less than an hour of active flying.

How does this system make the game more accessible or more enjoyable? What purpose is this system supposed to serve? When is the game going to "find the fun" it spoke of rather than just continuing to make every system that is actually implemented more and more tedious and restrictive?

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3 hours ago, Azraeil said:

How is it that you can get the message that the crafting system you implemented that had so many players stop playing because of how restrictive it was and how the barrier to entry was too high and decide the solution is to take the prohibitive system you have and then TIME GATE that construction process?

Like lets look at FUEL. A ship needs 10kL of fuel to fill a tank, each 100L of fuel needs 1h to create the schematic and around 3h of pures schematics to produce the hydrogen and fuel metals needed to craft that 100L of fuel. So we are looking at ~100h of timers to be able to fill a fuel tank which will run out in less than an hour of active flying.

How does this system make the game more accessible or more enjoyable? What purpose is this system supposed to serve? When is the game going to "find the fun" it spoke of rather than just continuing to make every system that is actually implemented more and more tedious and restrictive?

It doesn't. That said, this is the feedback that NQ is looking for - how to balance the system.

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It seems to be a common theme here,

 

1. NQ, don't deploy the schematic changes

 

2. NQ doesn't listen to the community

 

Seems to me that at release DU will be DOA, kind of sucks since i put so much time into alpha and beta to "help test and structure the game"

 

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I like these changes for the most part. The original implementation of schematics did not solve the core problem of limiting production; it just added a grind before reaching the exact same state the game was already in. These changes will add actual scarcity to factory gameplay; of course that is why so many people are negative about it. The current situation of one player being able to scale up machines until they could completely saturate the market for multiple elements is not sustainable. The new system scales based on accounts, and so no matter the population it should have roughly the same impact.

 

The one thing I dislike about this system is how much it incentivizes alt accounts. It seems like every game mechanic added is easily abusable by alt accounts. Talents, gunning, missions, mining unit calibrations, and now schematic queues. It's completely insane how many accounts the game wants you to buy. Something really needs done about this; someone with 10h to play the game on 1 accounts should be able to accomplish just as much as another person with 10h to play the game on 20 accounts.

 

Basically, the game needs to get rid of all the AFK timers and make things based on active gameplay. If you aren't logged in doing something, you should not be progressing.

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