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A LETTER FROM OUR CREATIVE DIRECTOR - discussion thread


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4 hours ago, Cybob19 said:

Delete blueprints, they're able to contain skill buff levels, being able to fly instantly instead of spending hours designing a ship is an unfair advantage, and what about the creators who sold BP? The buyer gets to keep the BP but the designer gets his wallet wiped.

 

I hope you realize this makes no sense at all right?

 

While yes, retaining core BPs will retain the ELEMENT buffs the construct has, it will not maintainthe PLAYER buffs which really are as, if not more important.

 

And only retaining core blueprints actually AIDS the designers and builders as they do not need to redo their work and can start selling again as soon as they either get the materials or players have been able to build up their bank accounts again.

 

NQ has already been clear that CORE blueprints will be persistent across the wipe as well. Of course players whould not be able to retain the ships or blueprints they previously bought. You can only have core blueprints if you are the construct creator or if the construct is DRM free..

 

 

4 hours ago, Cybob19 said:

Everybody here is full of shit.

 

Frankly.. what you on?. You make very little sense, so please.. just sit down already.

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From time to time I get got and do the mistake to read here. Everything anybody could say is bound to be filled with narrative and age like milk, I am not excluding myself from that. It would be in the interest of everybody's dignity to just shut up and wait.

If by saying I make no sense you mean that my statements seem contractidory, let me try to untie it. I'm am against a total wipe, but I recognize that anything other than a total wipe can be twisted in the court of public opinion. So do this terrible mistake, let the narrative be around that ("they should never have total wiped"), I want people to have a miserable time in the first months and get real "buyers remorse" (concerning the wipe), but the game still to do fine in the long run... A tall effin order I know.

But I'd like to imagine some newb joining 3 years from now, who could only scratch their head reading through our stuff here, thinking of us as quite pathethic and too invested, and just be able to appreciate their time despite being late to the party, because of a total lack of siren calls for more wipes.

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There are so many ways to approach this wipe issue. total or partial wipe. And it already looks like a decision has been made. the wipe is partial, as I had imagined and written in other 3Ds they will leave the Core BPs which at this point in my opinion could be extended to all the BPs as it would eliminate the possible controversy of those who have played this title for years and never wanted create nothing of his own, but he always bought ships and buildings from others. After all, the advantage of keeping the BPs is quite relative in a world that starts from 0 before being able to use them again will pass a lot of water under the bridges, without considering that part of them will be useless according to the criteria dictated by the latest changes therefore : Why not extend them to all BPs? (it seems as if the game of those who have spent their time creating and designing things is worth more than those who have dedicated themselves to something else). At this point, since the partial wipe path has been decided, it is possible to extend it to other aspects of the game: such as credits and talents. Let's say that it might be an idea to keep a limit for each of them beyond which it is not possible to receive a release of the game. (Example credits: maximum 10M of quanta, Example talents: maximum 5M.) Personally I am opposed to certain compromises, since the partiality of things does not satisfy anyone. Those who expect to play a new game and those who expect to continue their game started years ago. But of all this personally I am not interested, for me they can choose the way they think is more right, what will influence my decision to play this title or not is the longevity vision of the game itself. in other words, if the system of resources remains static and limited with infinite waste of time in its vain search, for me the game is already over before even starting. In such case i will wait for SH to sell DU's code parts to other SH who will make it a more balanced game (hopefully) or else wait for some other game to come out.

 

What really surprises me is this silly dispute between wipe yes and wipe no of some players (I will only play if I can continue to have what I have accumulated so far, I do not play if they do not reset everything) as if all this had a real value apart from the time spent. A mmorpg that has no users that is not attractive but is not played for any reason whatsoever and that has a limited vision of its future projected by the cyclical nature of its users will never take off. And it will be of little use to have kept your assets in the game if you are the only few to play it. Think about it a bit.

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2 hours ago, Neuritico said:

After all, the advantage of keeping the BPs is quite relative in a world that starts from 0 before being able to use them again will pass a lot of water under the bridges,

 

Given that in this game early landgrabs can remain permanent, it's relative, as relative as being able to train a skillcategorie to lvl2-3 during the time it takes a newcomer to design a functioning ship able to haul 3 territory scanner and move to other planets, meanwhile the big boys are allready scanning... In a new meta where there can be no players with odd reserves of rare and exotic ressources because ownership of these is gatekept by landclaims and people camping undiscovered asteroids on the closest rim, with ready designed ships... yes the ability to compete is very relative to say the least. As relative as NQ's ability to dillute previous excesses with hyperinflation through daily quanta, if everybody has 5 figures more previous fortunes become very relative yes... I thought the inherently unfair thing was whales multi'ing missions, not the people who grinded for their ore,  apparantly that's relative too...

 

You know what's clear cut and offers no relative attack angles? A total wipe.

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After a full wipe any org who still can be bothered to remain active is going to be scanning and mining key planets and dominating asteroids in a couple of days, control alien cores after a week and claim key territories faster then you can say "quanta cash flow funnel".

 

So ANY perceived fairness or level playground gained from a full wipe is nothing but an illusion, since all it does it make the game harder (and boring) to start for newbs with no existing player infrastructure to discovery and lean on, and easier for large orgs to correct past mistakes and use their experience and numbers to gain dominance.

 

And all this just so that a few dedicated players get to feel special for a short while (at the expense of people who has been supporting the game for years) until it is back to normal, and new players will be in the exact same position as they are today when joining the game.

 

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We just made a full circle and we are back to the beginning of wipe or no wipe... /smh

 

43 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

After a full wipe any org who still can be bothered to remain active is going to be scanning and mining key planets and dominating asteroids in a couple of days, control alien cores after a week and claim key territories faster then you can say "quanta cash flow funnel".

This proves the wipe to be valid and that knowledge is advantage enough.  Then the next paragraph tries to defend no wipe...

52 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

So ANY perceived fairness or level playground gained from a full wipe is nothing but an illusion, since all it does it make the game harder (and boring) to start for newbs with no existing player infrastructure to discovery and lean on, and easier for large orgs to correct past mistakes and use their experience and numbers to gain dominance.

Twinking and seal clubbing are a negative to player retention. Doesn't matter what skin you put o it. 

Difficult for new players because there are no twinks?  how? that's such a bizarre thing to say.

Boring?  I wasn't bored when I started playing, and I avoided all of you.  In fact, the reason we got .23 is because all of us builders and small group players were ignoring all of the 'billionaires'.. we were having fun.  Them, not so much.

You don't think new builders want to be involved in building a new world, so their things can be discovered by later players?  

 

52 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

And all this just so that a few dedicated players get to feel special for a short while (at the expense of people who has been supporting the game for years) until it is back to normal, and new players will be in the exact same position as they are today when joining the game.

All of this is to SAVE THE GAME.  The game is DYING and needs to maximize new players... NQ is min/maxing new player retention, just like we min/max our toons.  +5 STR doesn't mean much on gloves, but when you put it on all your gear it starts making a noticeable difference and that's why we do it.  Maxing out new players is the most important thing right now.  

Knowledge is advantage enough... you said it in your first paragraph.

 

Can we talk about the systems in the current game that feel like more work than fun?

or

What gives you confidence that NQ can pull this off, or what gives you lack of confidence?

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1 hour ago, Hazaatan said:

This proves the wipe to be valid and that knowledge is advantage enough.  Then the next paragraph tries to defend no wipe...

Your argumentation is very flawed. Your quoted sentence proves only the "knowledge is advantage" part. The rest is just dogmatic opinion.  

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4 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

All of this is to SAVE THE GAME.  The game is DYING and needs to maximize new players...

The only thing that can keep a MMO alive for more then a short while is player retention. And that is something DU has very little of, regardless of full wipe or not.

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7 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

After a full wipe any org who still can be bothered to remain active is going to be scanning and mining key planets and dominating asteroids in a couple of days, control alien cores after a week and claim key territories faster then you can say "quanta cash flow funnel".

 

So ANY perceived fairness or level playground gained from a full wipe is nothing but an illusion, since all it does it make the game harder (and boring) to start for newbs with no existing player infrastructure to discovery and lean on, and easier for large orgs to correct past mistakes and use their experience and numbers to gain dominance.

 

And all this just so that a few dedicated players get to feel special for a short while (at the expense of people who has been supporting the game for years) until it is back to normal, and new players will be in the exact same position as they are today when joining the game.

Could not have said it in a best way 👍

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17 hours ago, Cybob19 said:

 

Given that in this game early landgrabs can remain permanent, it's relative, as relative as being able to train a skillcategorie to lvl2-3 during the time it takes a newcomer to design a functioning ship able to haul 3 territory scanner and move to other planets, meanwhile the big boys are allready scanning... In a new meta where there can be no players with odd reserves of rare and exotic ressources because ownership of these is gatekept by landclaims and people camping undiscovered asteroids on the closest rim, with ready designed ships... yes the ability to compete is very relative to say the least. As relative as NQ's ability to dillute previous excesses with hyperinflation through daily quanta, if everybody has 5 figures more previous fortunes become very relative yes... I thought the inherently unfair thing was whales multi'ing missions, not the people who grinded for their ore,  apparantly that's relative too...

 

You know what's clear cut and offers no relative attack angles? A total wipe.

All that you wrote is very true. But you missed something: when the game is officially released that day it will not be the starting line for all present and future players that we hope this title will be able to count, some will start immediately others after days others after months, which is why what worries you now will be cause for just complaints in the future. at this precise moment I'm sure there will be players who have the exact coordinates of the lots, in the various planets, more profitable in terms of resources and if you think about it, they won't even need to scan the terrain because the resources are static in the planets and more and more limited the more they go up in tier. if a periodic reshuffling of the same with random spawn does not take place it is evident that whoever arrives first and knows the coordinates takes everything, and you can safely say that it is the end of the game. At the current state of the game, a full or partial wipe solves only 20% of the problem and postpones the remaining 80% to the near future.

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11 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

After a full wipe any org who still can be bothered to remain active is going to be scanning and mining key planets and dominating asteroids in a couple of days, control alien cores after a week and claim key territories faster then you can say "quanta cash flow funnel".

 

So ANY perceived fairness or level playground gained from a full wipe is nothing but an illusion, since all it does it make the game harder (and boring) to start for newbs with no existing player infrastructure to discovery and lean on, and easier for large orgs to correct past mistakes and use their experience and numbers to gain dominance.

 

And all this just so that a few dedicated players get to feel special for a short while (at the expense of people who has been supporting the game for years) until it is back to normal, and new players will be in the exact same position as they are today when joining the game.

 

Your point of view might be right ,but first of all i'm not so confident in the altruistic nature of perfect strangers: if you do something you do it for your own gain not for the desire to be the good Samaritan. and above all what you suggest is to leave everything as it is so there is no solution whatsoever in the short or long term. At this point I ask you what need is there to formalize the release of the game? And why start this title that has now reached such a level where many have already developed everything, you can already find everything you need around, and why should I sponsor this title in my community of players? moving in here en masse when that minimum of competition you can draw from this game  it's over? Honestly, as a new player who wants to play a similar game, I am not interested in what others have done and in finding the food ready, I am interested in what I can do with my friends. After all, the game is all here, if you remove this aspect too, there is really nothing left.

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10 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

The only thing that can keep a MMO alive for more then a short while is player retention. And that is something DU has very little of, regardless of full wipe or not.

I'd disagree

 

While yes, player pop is currently low, if not very low, NQ would set themselves up for a better chance of gaining traction early on post release if they wipe as, correct or not, the PERCEPTION of a level playing field will support that happening.

 

Obviously, if NQ just does the wipe and then follow up with.. being NQ .. nothing will change and they will see the exact same thing happen as 2-3 weeks after beta start, a sharp decline in server pop. The wipe should be a starting point and NQ must stay alert and follow up with actions to retain players after that or they will fail to do so. My fear is that this is exactly what will happen.

 

On the other hand, once the wipe happens, we, as the existing player community need to stop bickering and bitching about the wipe and start growing our presence in game, bringing along the new players as we go. If that does not happen and the current player base just rushes in and continues their "everyone in their ow little bubble" kind of attitude, the game will also run into trouble and this time it will be on us.

 

So, this is a two-edged sword for sure, but it starts with the wipe and from there, each side (NQ and us) needs to do their part for the game to have a fighting chance.


And because this is how I view the chances for DU, I'd prefer to know when the wipe will happen as quickly as possible so that we can start preparing and set up an "out of game" framework to allow us to support new players as they come in. In that however, I do not expect NQ to have the realisation this would be beneficial to them and the game unfortunately.

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33 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

While yes, player pop is currently low, if not very low, NQ would set themselves up for a better chance of gaining traction early on post release if they wipe as, correct or not, the PERCEPTION of a level playing field will support that happening.

 

Obviously, if NQ just does the wipe and then follow up with.. being NQ .. nothing will change and they will see the exact same thing happen as 2-3 weeks after beta start, a sharp decline in server pop.

 

The way I see it there is no indication NQ will ever change.

 

And with that in mind I question the worth of burning bridges and generating even more negativity with the players who actually play the game despite all the problems, for a perceived chance that more players might be joining at release.

 

And I also suspect that any new player who will use the wipe as a decider for joining or not, is not going to be sticking around for long with DU in the state it is and NQ being well... NQ.

 

33 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

On the other hand, once the wipe happens, we, as the existing player community need to stop bickering and bitching about the wipe and start growing our presence in game, bringing along the new players as we go. If that does not happen and the current player base just rushes in and continues their "everyone in their ow little bubble" kind of attitude, the game will also run into trouble and this time it will be on us.

 

No, players should always be playing the way they want to within the framework set by the game.

So if NQ can't design a "community driven" MMO that actually makes players want to be a part of the community, then that is not on the players.

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14 hours ago, merihimRefin said:

Your argumentation is very flawed. Your quoted sentence proves only the "knowledge is advantage" part. The rest is just dogmatic opinion.  

No it is not all dogmatic opinion, you know it's not. 

You, and all the other 'no wipe', are just trying to protect your ill-gotten gains because that is the only thing you have left to argue over.  You're not fooling anyone, we can see you.  The excuses you come up with are so bad. 

The current player base can not support the game, or their would be no wipe...  Catering to a group that gives your game no chance of success is not good business.  You have to cater to a group that gives you a chance.  

Coming into a game where the twinkerbells have cornered the markets and grossly overpower the new players, at launch, is insane.  That does not create a welcome atmosphere...  

With a wipe, You will have a legit advantage in the game at launch with knowledge.

Why is your ill-gotten, massive, advantage more important than the health of the game?

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23 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

And with that in mind I question the worth of burning bridges and generating even more negativity with the players who actually play the game despite all the problems, for a perceived chance that more players might be joining at release.

 

Problem has always been constant changes which breaks players achievements.

- by nerfing engines breaks well balanced ships and throw hours of playtime into trash. This has happend so many times

- by adding lots of extra weight, (for no reason) to ship elements has same effect

- by implementing schematics did break so much work already done at factories

- lua changes which are not backwards compatible

- obstruction changes

- changes to colors and textures of voxels

- change of material requirement for Warp beacon 

 

This list goes on and on.

 

So many negatively effecting changes has been most poisonous to the motivation to continue.

I'm not the onlyone who has felt that Devs and Game designers want to punish players instead of creating interesting features.

 

Also about what is interesting is wery much lost.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Hazaatan said:

Coming into a game where the twinkerbells have cornered the markets and grossly overpower the new players, at launch, is insane.  That does not create a welcome atmosphere...  

With a wipe, You will have a legit advantage in the game at launch with knowledge.

 

After 1.5 years this situation will be exactly same. There will be super rich players versus new players.

How this situation can be resolved? New wipe every year ??

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13 minutes ago, Hazaatan said:

No it is not all dogmatic opinion, you know it's not. 

No. It is not a question of pro or contra wipe. It's about the fact that you infer more from a statement that is not contained in the statement itself. That is a logical mistake. 

 

False implications are a problem in discussions.

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1 minute ago, kulkija said:

 

After 1.5 years this situation will be exactly same. There will be super rich players versus new players.

How this situation can be resolved? New wipe every year ??

At launch.. did you purposefully miss that part, or accidentally?

ill-gotten gains... did you purposefully miss that part, or accidentally?

When the game is healthy and going strong, it can afford to win some/lose some.

The most important part of any game is the launch, prove me wrong.

 

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2 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

The most important part of any game is the launch, prove me wrong.

 

 

I can think of Fortnite (right, Fortnite. The Battle Royale mode came only half a year later!), also things like Eso (very bumpy start), GW2 (praised as the PvP / e-sport game, it then eventually changed the focus to PvE) and FF14 (driven against the wall because it was not contemporary at release). Very good that they have revised it).

 

I would rephrase the statement to say the essential foundations of a game must be in place for people to be retained. If people are already running away from you after 2 months, then you're doing something wrong. But if people stay with you after 2 months, even if things are not finished or even missing (See Star Wars Galaxies - Until the first expansion you couldn't even fly a spaceship and the "Star Wars" is missing in a "Star Wars" game), then the essence or the foundation of the game is right and can be expanded.

 

Will DU be able to do that? I don't know. But it has to become more than just Landmark in Space.

The restrictions or course changes make it hard for me to believe that. Missing AvA, Player Markets, for me this is not a sandbox but a game that NQ dictates how you have to play it.

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3 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

The most important part of any game is the launch, prove me wrong.

 

I'd say NMS proved you wrong. ;)

And Albion online had a very shaky launch too.. now, 7 years later they stil up and running, doing fine.

 

In general I'd say it's more how well the studio deals wit hte inevitable issues at launch, not the event itself.

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1 hour ago, SirJohn85 said:

I can think of Fortnite (right, Fortnite. The Battle Royale mode came only half a year later!), also things like Eso (very bumpy start), GW2 (praised as the PvP / e-sport game, it then eventually changed the focus to PvE) and FF14 (driven against the wall because it was not contemporary at release). Very good that they have revised it).

 

21 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

I'd say NMS proved you wrong. ;)

And Albion online had a very shaky launch too.. now, 7 years later they stil up and running, doing fine.

 

In general I'd say it's more how well the studio deals wit hte inevitable issues at launch, not the event itself.

I think only NMS is valid here, but it is lightning in a bottle.  They did an incredible job at recovering.  The launch was still a disaster, and it crushed the game.  How many games can come back from such a disaster?  How long did it take to recover?  Imagine if they had a good launch.  I think we would all like to see DU be another NMS, but NMS is B2P. DU is going to monthly sub, and that doesn't sound good.

FF14 proves my point.  That would be great for DU to go that route too, but they don't have that kind of money.

I don't know anything about Albion as I thought the game was stuck on low pop.

Changing game modes is like creating another game launch, as is expansions.  WoW has been suffering from shitty expansion launches for a while now, only to fix the BS they had at launch to get players to come back.

 

Out of the games that you guys mentioned, which ones started with the markets already cornered, player already maxed out and OP, and players already billions ahead in game currency?

Can you imagine fortnight BR with twinks at launch?

Imagine FF14 relaunch with the AH dominates by wealthy players at launch.

Imagine GW2 having twinks at launch in BG's...

You know that would not have ended well.  The players would have revolted, and a crippling amount of players would have rejected the games. 

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5 hours ago, kulkija said:

 

Problem has always been constant changes which breaks players achievements.

 

Absolutely, that is what happens when someone tries to pretend that a game is beta when in reality it is still alpha.

 

And all the underlying problems are still there, waiting to rear their ugly head. Like for example the fact that the game does not even have the fundamental functions/pillars in place to make it a proper beta, and they are talking about a release...

 

So saying we need a wipe to "fix the game", makes little sense when we all know there will be many braking changes after 'release' if the game is ever going to have a chance.

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