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A LETTER FROM OUR CREATIVE DIRECTOR - discussion thread


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7 minutes ago, Captain Hills said:

may I ask you what you've  spend since beta start ?

 

pro wipers also have their reasons

- no sub, no *losses & hate inequality

 

*money&time

ok, ill see where this is going.  I stopped at .23, then came back to see changes and already canceled my sub.  I have spent about $90 on the game. And a lot of time.  Fun time, until .23  

I'm not an alpha tester, or DAC holder.  

Your move.

 

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39 minutes ago, Hazaatan said:

Your move.

I'm not fingerpointing. And I'm in the mid 50 if that helps.

But there are some who played much longer and payed much more - the math is simple, they'll loose a lot - and you not that much.

 

For the game, a full wipe possibly attracts more players you're right - but also respect the math for those who've spend much more cash and time then ppl like you, who threw the towel long time ago.

 

BTW.: I'll only loose time with my pledgelevel - but I fully respect those running more the one account because this finally also helped NQ to this point where we're now.

 

So, a WIPE is okey for me - but at least keep the TP because it stands in a direct proportion of what anyone has spend.

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5 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

ok, ill see where this is going.  I stopped at .23, then came back to see changes and already canceled my sub.  I have spent about $90 on the game. And a lot of time.  Fun time, until .23  

I'm not an alpha tester, or DAC holder.  

Your move.

So... lets see if I have this strait...
You're sitting here in this thread advocating for everyone that plays a game you don't intend to play yourself to lose all their stuff because this will somehow auto-magically cause new people to become interested in the game... and because you have decided the game is dying (it isn't great, but it isn't exactly gone yet either) this makes mocking/insulting the people that disagree with you because they don't want to lose all the work they've invested their time in acceptable?

...

 

Once lost, neither trust nor reputation is easily regained. NQ said beta was soft-launch. While they may lose some old players on a full wipe, enough will stick around (at least for a little while) that any new players gained will learn not to trust promises that their stuff wont be deleted. DU has its problems now, and a wipe might fix a few, but can it really afford one? "All your stuff that took hundreds or thousands of hours to get might be permanently deleted to try and fix a bug or two and undo some poor development choices regardless of the developers saying you'll keep your stuff" isn't exactly a great thing to have a reputation for.

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3 hours ago, Taelessael said:

NQ said beta was soft-launch. 

 

Actually no, they did not. JC said "IF you want to cal lthis a soft launch then sure..", which is not exactly the same thing.

 

And here also lies the problem which spans across al of this, NQ refusing to take anysort of accountability or ownership of their actions and always pointing at "reasons", "circumstances" or others. For a moment that seemd to change in April last year when they posted the three devblogs as they kind of did admit mistakes were made in the first two but then went right ahead and fell back to their usual self in the third.

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you should reset everyone

 

you only have to give back the game time you have played for a year you have a year of free time

 

all your money all your assets are to be reset

 

 OR possible bonus This is a x2 experience for the period that you have played before

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wipe everything or dont wipe

 

its such an easy decision holy [filtered].

ask yourself

do you want make many new players pissed just to make a few hundred veteran players happy.

a wipe should always mean NO ADVANTAGE FOR ANYONE and lets be real, the veterans have a huge advantage anyway because experience and knowledge.

 

do a full wipe or declare bankruptcy

 

do you really wanna listen to the same 50 faces of this forum or do you care about thousands of potential new players? as i said such an easy decision.

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33 minutes ago, Niemand said:

wipe everything or dont wipe

The problem with another global wipe is twofold:

  1. Money has been taken from many for two years now which can't just be ignored
  2. At several times NQ has made a clear statement they would NOT do another global wipe again unless absolutely needed.
     

Would I personally be bothered by another full wipe? No, if that would happen, I'd be fine and just start over, even if that also meant no blueprints.

 

I agree that even on a complete reset, backers and beta key holder will have a massive advantage, knowing the game well and especially if some group up they will bounce back and get ahead from the rest very quickly.

 

Do I think NQ has the option? Well sure, technically they do. But the fallout and potentially long-lasting bad rep it would result in may not be what NQ is looking for.

 

Effectively, having existing player retain talent points to respec will not have the massive negative effect on new players some seem to think, I've shown the math on that several times now and it’s just not there. In fact, new players will greatly benefit from this as they join orgs with such players.

 

 

And herein lies one of my points about he "internal discussion" NQ keeps bringing up. I can absolutely see them consider these options around the wipe and I can see how making the choices needed can take time and be difficult. I can't however see how the choice between "wipe yes/no" is still a thing because if it were, the consideration of the first point would not be given the time it needs as we're very quickly approaching release at this time. 

 

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On 6/9/2022 at 4:41 AM, Cergorach said:

 

WTF? What gay part? You have issues...

 

Your assumptions are that my 'advantage' is more important then the health of the game. Do you have any dependable data that a TP wipe will attract so many new paying players that it will compensate the players that will leave due to the TP wipe AND get more players/accounts on top of that? I seriously doubt that...

 

Just from myself, you would have to get five paying customers to get ahead. Not just returning players that have already payed their dues during KS/Patronage and now have a ton of DAC or lifetime subscriptions, actually paying customers now.

 

I played/payed DU on the basis of a persistent universe, if that persistence isn't there, I would never have started. There are very few game play loops in DU and very few are actual fun, so I wasn't playing for fun, I was playing for satisfaction/gratification. Compare it to real life: You can work for crap pay, but work on an awesome project, you're not working for pay, but for the satisfaction of that awesome project. Then someone burns it down, all your labor gone... Now, there is of course the option to work for top pay (play), after you're done, they can burn it, piss on it, but you still got your pay. DU pays balls in gameplay, absolutely horrific! If I had known they would burn the place down for launch, I would just not have spent the time and the money. I would have played more Satisfactory, Dyson Sphere Program, Elite Dangerous, maybe even some Star Citizen, etc. That would have given me way more gameplay, but just not any long term satisfaction/gratification. That longterm satisfaction/gratification is why I played/payed DU.

That is so true I completely agree with you on this one, could not have said it bether myself 

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13 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

You are going to pay for 5 accounts after launch?  You where the same guy that tried to use 1 account as the reason to be upset.  That's $75 a month...

on an unfinished game whos odds are not looking good.  $75... a month.

Anyone can spend their money anyway they want.  But when you justify to yourself that $75 a month, to have an advantage in unfinished game, is a good idea... no one should every take your advise on weather the game wipes or doesn't.

You are not leaving the game, wipe or no wipe.  You are coming in hot, ready or not.

I'm paying for four, so you would need five to get ahead. (I know, I know... Reading is difficult) 😉

 

And who's paying $15/month per character per month? I generally subscribe with a year subscription, those are currently  $83.88/year. So four would be $335.52/year and not $60/month. Unless they price raise again... Then we'll see...

 

@Captain Hills I've spent almost $500 on DU subscriptions since beta. Started with one character, added one at a later date, then added two other characters...

 

If I spent a lot of time/effort on a game, I have no issue with paying for that. As for spending money on something and how much, that is something between me and my wallet. I'm not judging you on your alcohol intake (yes I am)... 😉 But how much you spend depends on how much you earn, how much time/effort you spend on something, and how much you value it. People playing a sport will spend more on that in a year and will have spent less time doing that.

 

As for me not leaving the game... It's a matter of trust and a future spending of time, effort, and money. NQ has pretty much 'spend' any trust they had, this is (for me) the straw that will brake the camel's back... Time for me to cut my 'losses' and move on. For others it will be any wipe, period. That will make them quit permanently and they are still clinging to the hope that NQ will see the 'light' and not wipe at all (I think that is entirely unrealistic). Others will indeed gripe and moan, but keep playing/paying anyway, no matter the 'abuse', they are 'locked in' as you said. But with an absolute clean start I have NOTHING that is 'locking me in' anymore...

 

As far as not listening to me. Let me ask you something, does a company want customers that are around for decades and spend hundreds, if not a thousand dollars plus per year on their services (per player) or does it want dayflies that are around for a few months, maybe a few years and then moan and gripe about price increases due to inflation (paying a single subsciption)? I know what I would want as a business...

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19 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

LIF got shut down becaue effectively XSOLLA refused to pay them which meant they ran out of money to keep the game alive, not becaus ethe did a wipe.

Why did XSOLLA (payment provide) refuse to pay them?

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3 hours ago, Cergorach said:

Why did XSOLLA (payment provide) refuse to pay them?

 

They're a scammy, awful company led by an irredeemable ass, with rates twice as high as industry standard because they know game developers don't understand web dev.... 🤷‍♂️

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12 hours ago, Taelessael said:

You're sitting here in this thread advocating for everyone that plays a game you don't intend to play yourself to lose all their stuff because this will somehow auto-magically cause new people to become interested in the game

No one said this.  If I was done with the game I wouldn't be here.  Everyone that is here is not done with this game.  I came in to see the changes, now I'm waiting to see the final release version.  No one said that a wipe will magically make new players.  The release of the game will bring in new players, the wipe will keep the most here.  

 

12 hours ago, Taelessael said:

because you have decided the game is dying (it isn't great, but it isn't exactly gone yet either)

What do you think the definition of dying means?  You literally defined dying.  The dictionary definition is; approaching death.  Which we both correctly defined.

 

12 hours ago, Taelessael said:

because they don't want to lose all the work

You get to keep your BP.  More importantly, the game... is approaching death.  Your time and effort is being traded in for the best chance at survival.  

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On 6/9/2022 at 3:41 PM, Cergorach said:

Your assumptions are that my 'advantage' is more important then the health of the game. Do you have any dependable data that a TP wipe will attract so many new paying players that it will compensate the players that will leave due to the TP wipe AND get more players/accounts on top of that? I seriously doubt that...

The wipe is not to attract new players, how would they even know?  The release of the game is to attract new players, the wipe is to keep as many as possible.  What your doing is twinking and seal clubbing and now trying to justify it.  All the data around twinking and seal clubbing is that it is a bad experience for low level or new players and it makes people not want to play.  Correct me if im wrong, but there is no example of twinking and seal clubbing increasing the players of a game, only decreasing.  

Happened in WoW with twinking in BG's and open world pvp. Happened in world of tanks with tier 2 tanks. WoW and WoT had to make changes to limit or get rid of twinking and seal clubbing for the health of the game.  Every open world pvp survival game turns into a seal clubbing game. 

It's not just pvp based either, it is also economy based when gamers want to monopolize or corner a market with their massive advantage, and it causes players to not want to compete.  This is not new,  you pretending to not know is also not new.  You want to twink and go seal clubbing and your trying to hide it behind nonsense excuses. 

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Honestly I get the frustration of not knowing the future and all the worrying and fear that it can lead to but this is getting excessive. Can we put the brakes on the arguing and maybe lighten the mood a bit? There was a lot more to this letter and most of us have already expressed our opinions regarding the wipe in the other threads. Both sides of this debate have merits, and no one is wrong for feeling a particular way. Remember NQ has the final say along with the power to overcome obstacles and, if needed, make compromises. They are the ones you need to convince.

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6 hours ago, Cergorach said:

I'm not judging you on your alcohol intake (yes I am)... 😉 But how much you spend depends on how much you earn, how much time/effort you spend on something, and how much you value it.

I'm now a bit confused my idealistic DUFriend. My english isn't the best I have to admit. So let me sort some words. I'm fully on your side. You possibly just didn't get em the way I've expressed myself, namely in a positive sense for ppl like you - spending so much. 

 

Meantime you've spend more then me obviously without having one char @livetime. And that's what I respect. Supporting the dream NQ once announced to us, the SciFi Nerds we are.

 

From who did you get that info with the alcohol ?

Not that it isn't true, but I never outed myself - me wonders.

 

In the hope these words addresses the my correct standpoint @Cergorach

You - having all those chars running - are one of the MOST affected players and I'm fully on YOUR side.

 

I'm only on one char plus one beta-key I've spend to one of my friends ..

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To be honest it is all smoke and mirrors.  A lot of what was stated in this Newsletter are things promised in 2021.  Why not show some of the early systems for TW, Recycling etc?  We can give you some feedback early on so you can develop it but equally it gives us something to get 'excited about'.

 

Currently the game is dead, empty, quiet because of the Wipe Hype no one is sure what asset is going or staying and that makes it even worse.  If I know 100% everything but BP's are going I'll get on, fly my stuff, PvP like you want us to to test for you knowing if I die (lets face it its likely I'm going to be outnumbered) I wont give a hoot.  However not knowing means I'm still cautious on asset loss.

 

This past week I've seen more of my org quit/cancel subs than any other week as they are bored as hell, fed up not knowing about the wipe and wont put the time into the game until they know one way or another if it is worth to do so!.

 

We need answers and a roadmap.  Remember its been a few months since the last big update was launched so by that a new one si due around the corner (yes I originally read no more major patches but this post kinda says otherwise).

 

End of the day we just need to know to plan.  Sadly I'm spending less and less time in game and chilling in other games which is a huge shame.

 

Thanks

 

Honvik

Premier of the Empire Org

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3 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

The wipe is not to attract new players, how would they even know?  The release of the game is to attract new players, the wipe is to keep as many as possible.  What your doing is twinking and seal clubbing and now trying to justify it.  All the data around twinking and seal clubbing is that it is a bad experience for low level or new players and it makes people not want to play.  Correct me if im wrong, but there is no example of twinking and seal clubbing increasing the players of a game, only decreasing.  

Happened in WoW with twinking in BG's and open world pvp. Happened in world of tanks with tier 2 tanks. WoW and WoT had to make changes to limit or get rid of twinking and seal clubbing for the health of the game.  Every open world pvp survival game turns into a seal clubbing game. 

It's not just pvp based either, it is also economy based when gamers want to monopolize or corner a market with their massive advantage, and it causes players to not want to compete.  This is not new,  you pretending to not know is also not new.  You want to twink and go seal clubbing and your trying to hide it behind nonsense excuses. 


Even if they did a full wipe, players starting say.. 6 months after launch would experience the same thing. It’s the nature of the beast, and a game like this we’ll be back in the same situation in no time. It’s a somewhat short sighted non-solution IMO.

 

In every MMO I’ve played, this has existed on some level, and the remedy was almost always the same. Join an org, be mentored and geared, and learn from more experienced players. Having an established player base willing to help new comers is a plus, not a hinderance.

 

 I think accepting this as a matter of fact and giving new players a leg up is far more helpful than bumping everyone back to the Stone Age for launch. I’m not saying some kind of reset couldn’t be beneficial, but I don’t see how a full wipe works as a solution long term.


 

They can easily make starting talent pool higher as time goes on, and give new players an xp boost the first 30-60 days. Maybe even bump up daily rewards, or keep it the same and give them items/resources along with quanta. Since there are no actual levels in the game, that’s the only thing I think could work.

 

The fact of the matter is, it’ll be a persistent issue, since they’ll always want new players. Unless they add something for newbies to get a leg up, you’ll be looking at the same situation down the road.

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4 hours ago, Hazaatan said:

The wipe is not to attract new players, how would they even know?  The release of the game is to attract new players, the wipe is to keep as many as possible. 

 

They will know because it will be announced and marketed as such. The wipe and a subsequent "head start" period is a marketing tool to get as many people as possible to sign up with what probably will be multi month subscriptions to get as much money as possible in the door at release.

 

A wipe, followed by a period of head start is always going to be attractive for many. It will probably include a special deal for beta key holders who will lose access at the point of wipe and so will need to sub if they want to stay.

 

  • Beta key holders get early access at wipe when take a 6-month sub.
  • New players can sub for a year to get in at the wipe and 6 months to get in halfway the head start, probably with a smal extra discount on the first period.

 

And the money will come in as many will fall for this.

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On 6/9/2022 at 10:25 PM, Hazaatan said:

His post was meant to call me crazy because I claim that knowledge is advantage enough in a video game.  His post was not an opinion piece.  

We are all whining, but whining over losing your massive unfair advantage is the worst kind.  

You are also whining, welcome to the conversation.

 

You're the kind of person that comes into the world and whine about that the world is unfair. You will never be happy until you let that go. The world will never be fair, nor will gaming worlds. There will always be peeps joining later when there are already multibillionairs in the game. So stop wining about my wining, because the only reason you want to see a wipe is that everybody start this game 'fair'. As for myself, yeah I'm whining, but not because I will loose the quanta. I've left billions behind in other games, like EVE online. My point is I've been working hard for atleast the past half year to get rich, because I don't want to worry about paying 500k per week for each territory we own. I don't want to stay working in this game doing boring mining mini-games, gathering abandoned stuff and doing boring missions just to make cash. I want to start and finish my creative projects. My point is I will have to do all the work again which I did to come to the point where I can relax and play the game I would like to. It would be easier if there was no tax on territories or maybe pay one fee for a territory to own it. And even if it comes down to a wipe then I will probably be a billionaire again and then again I have to listen to people like you whining how unfair the world is...

 

 

 

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I guess all the bickering here has no purpose, other than maybe NQ reading it and taking it into account when they make their decision.

A reset is probably unavoidable, but it's what Cergorach said earlier if it will be a complete wipe I will not be 'locked in'.

@NQ, I hope the game survives, that's the most important now, but it seems there are two poisons: you will loose people when you do a reset or you will loose people not doing a reset. So pick your poison, or maybe mix them and sip that cup. I think a wise decision would be to go to Steam with DU. If you do, honest communication and hard work fixing bugs and lag will be the keys to win the hearts of players. Please don't f*** this game up... With this I close my case, the whining and the bickering. o/

 

p.s. and please make a decision very soon about wiping or not or something in between. Many players are in limbo on what to do... keep making quanta if it will be gone soon? building great structures which will be taken down soon (and if it's a large structure we will need to start working again at launch to gather enough honeycomb to rebuild it...) so please decide ffs. Then we can also make up our minds to stay here or leave.

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19 minutes ago, Saedow said:

You're the kind of person that comes into the world and whine about that the world is unfair. You will never be happy until you let that go. The world will never be fair, nor will gaming worlds. There will always be peeps joining later when there are already multibillionairs in the game. So stop wining about my wining, because the only reason you want to see a wipe is that everybody start this game 'fair'. As for myself, yeah I'm whining, but not because I will loose the quanta. I've left billions behind in other games, like EVE online. My point is I've been working hard for atleast the past half year to get rich, because I don't want to worry about paying 500k per week for each territory we own. I don't want to stay working in this game doing boring mining mini-games, gathering abandoned stuff and doing boring missions just to make cash. I want to start and finish my creative projects. My point is I will have to do all the work again which I did to come to the point where I can relax and play the game I would like to. It would be easier if there was no tax on territories or maybe pay one fee for a territory to own it. And even if it comes down to a wipe then I will probably be a billionaire again and then again I have to listen to people like you whining how unfair the world is...

 

 

 

Why don't you quote one of my statements where I said fair?

You just made up an entire story around my name, just so you can jump into the conversation with... whining about work in a game, which is valid.

I have never said anything about fair.  I wanted us to keep our BP, i'm glad we get to keep our BP.  And I have said several times, that knowledge of the game and where to put your TP and what sells the best is advantage enough. This is all about new players and keeping them.  No one needs a massive advantage over new players.  With our BP and knowledge we have enough.  U

As for work, that is a valid argument and we should be talking it.  That is NQ's fault.  I agree with you on that.  I made a post on how the mining units are terrible and feel like a work every few days.  

Whining about the world being unfair, I didn't say that, again you just made that up.  This isn't about you paying for territories, this is another example of making a nonsense excuse on why you should keep your massive advantage that you got while the game was broken.  There was plenty of opportunities to use exploits to cheat the system into becoming a billionaire.  But of course, not you... you did all legit, no alts, no exploits, no cheating, right?  Just good old fashion hard work. /smh

 

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Delete blueprints, they're able to contain skill buff levels, being able to fly instantly instead of spending hours designing a ship is an unfair advantage, and what about the creators who sold BP? The buyer gets to keep the BP but the designer gets his wallet wiped.

 

 

At least be consistent you asswipists. What in that particular case we suddenly value player retention over an influx of newbies? What there couldnt be creators who make an elefant out of this mosquito like they did last time for the idiot who thought he could just dismantle aphelia buildings without consequences.

 

 

Everybody here is full of shit.

 

Just delete it all.

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