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DUAL ACCESS COUPONS - STATUS UPDATE - discussion thread


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2 hours ago, Evoson said:

Think about it unless you gather all things needed and build without buying or selling off others it will affect you . Also eventually DACs will cause  inflation . Your progress towards the goals you want in game will be affected , your goals is you winning if you just want 2 to 5 tiles and gather all stuff make  all stuff and do not trade with others sure you could build up to what you want and be satisfied but it may take a while . But if you trade with others you will be affected and your goals take longer .

I don’t see that as winning or losing. There is no first place.

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1 hour ago, Doombad said:

I don’t see that as winning or losing. There is no first place.

Don't  worry you will see what I mean if you play after release . Give it a couple months or so then you will be like oh I get it . If you played other games with them you would have already figured it out .

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$20 is nothing.  Go out to eat recently?  Order food in? Even fast food.... *insert other forms of entertainment here. 

 

We should be paying $50 a month. But that's not happening anytime soon.  And realistically I see du moving to a ftp model. Where micro transactions for skin's, skill boosts, core slots, territory tax tokens come into play. 

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10 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

LOL .. I do hope you are trying to be funny...

 

 

Player driven economy vs Just NQ cashing out, I don't see how thats funny?

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17 minutes ago, space_man said:

Player driven economy vs Just NQ cashing out, I don't see how thats funny?

 

You're suggesting that NQ allow/include the possibility to generate tokens in game that have a hard real world value, hence will draw in shady/criminal/scammy organisations who will exploit this and exploit actual people to generate $$$ in a game.

 

Your idea is basically a goldsellers dream.

You can make money in game and then buy a DAC in game for Quanta,allowing you to effectively play for free, yes. This is something we know wil lbe possible. But allowing what you describe "will DACs be craftable by the players the high tier ores and plasma?" would be a very, very bad idea.

 

You may have misspoke and meants something else instead, but of not then your idea/suggestion is terrible.

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For @GEEKsogen and anyone else wondering how many DACs they will receive. Here is a quick overview:

 

image.png.78798ad6f53b2779eff0ef5675e6e71a.png

 

Note:

  • Early bird variants receive the default number of DACs for their given tier - see Kickstarter page
  • Founder accounts do not gain any additional DACs from supporter packs - see Support Article
  • These numbers could change so be sure to stay up to date with your DU news
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On 5/19/2022 at 9:37 PM, Evoson said:

Don't  worry you will see what I mean if you play after release . Give it a couple months or so then you will be like oh I get it . If you played other games with them you would have already figured it out .

I have played beta long enough and other games for decades. I get it. There is no winning anything in DU. There is no game loop you can win.

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5 hours ago, Doombad said:

I have played beta long enough and other games for decades. I get it. There is no winning anything in DU. There is no game loop you can win.

And that was the great thing about DU ie. make your own game. But it did not fit the PvP crowd that wanted to play iteration 2364 of the same old game. And so DU is now slowly changing to something .. not DU.

 

And this is probably the biggest mistake NQ did early on. They had a great foundation for a more open world building focused MMO, but wanted to please everyone by doing everything. And we all know how easy (not) that is..

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I just downloaded DU yesterday for the first time. I was not able to log in and there was no explanation why. Then I bought a one month game access and could log in. I stayed in game for about 8 hours and never saw another avatar on a Saturday.  Loved what I saw so far and very minor bug or two. 

 

Question, why is NQ charging a monthly fee if a) they are going to wipe, b) still in beta, and c) empty of players. And how do you sell stuff if there is no one to buy? 

 

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12 minutes ago, VrArchitect said:

Question, why is NQ charging a monthly fee if a) they are going to wipe, b) still in beta, and c) empty of players. And how do you sell stuff if there is no one to buy? 

A full wipe on release was never the intention but it has been a hot topic since early beta. The playerbase and even the developers have been divided on the issue. We are still not 100% sure a wipe will take place but the game is expected to release soon so the devs are currently trying to figure it out. If you want to contribute to the discussion, this is the most recent thread.

 

As to selling things on the market, there are fewer active players than normal right now (some reportedly are snoozing until the wipe debate is settled) but also keep in mind transporting goods in DU is expensive and time consuming. This has resulted in several "popular" trade hubs dominating above all the rest.  You will likely need to offer a substantial discount or a bulk order to sell goods at one of the less popular markets.

 

Also welcome to DU. We have a great community so don't hesitate to reach out if you run into trouble or want to socialize. Popular hangouts include the In-game general chat and support channels as well as the official forums and discord. There is also a reddit and facebook if that's your thing.

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On 5/21/2022 at 9:57 AM, blazemonger said:

 

You're suggesting that NQ allow/include the possibility to generate tokens in game that have a hard real world value, hence will draw in shady/criminal/scammy organisations who will exploit this and exploit actual people to generate $$$ in a game.

 

Your idea is basically a goldsellers dream.

You can make money in game and then buy a DAC in game for Quanta,allowing you to effectively play for free, yes. This is something we know wil lbe possible. But allowing what you describe "will DACs be craftable by the players the high tier ores and plasma?" would be a very, very bad idea.

 

You may have misspoke and meants something else instead, but of not then your idea/suggestion is terrible.

 

Could you please be nice. I thought it was a great idea.

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On 5/21/2022 at 7:42 PM, RugesV said:

You have that backwards plasma will be craftable from dac

Thinking about this again, they should actually require every type of plasma to make one DAC so that there is more trade, and less possibly of some org owning everything.

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It may sound attractive but being able to generate gametime without anyone needing to pay NQ the physical cash defeats the whole point of charging a subscription fee. If NQ wants to be generous and provide avenues for free gametime (which I strongly oppose) then it would need to be heavily controlled (ie: not tradeable/giftable) to prevent the kind of black market activities Blazemonger is referring to.

 

Also I think having DACs be a physical in-game object is a bad idea in general (especially given how complex the RDMS can get). A website implementation sounds much better and will hopefully lead to fewer new players getting scammed.

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37 minutes ago, space_man said:

Could you please be nice. I thought it was a great idea.

 

I have been very nice.. But can't believe anyone seriously thinks that creating these tokens in game is even remotely a good idea.

 

Seeing how you seem to only double down on that idea, I can only say.. I'm speechless about the level of oblivious  you are displaying here. I'm sorry but I find it very hard to take what you are saying here as someone being genuine in their opinion/ideas.

 

And that is me still being nice..

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45 minutes ago, space_man said:

 

Could you please be nice. I thought it was a great idea.

 

Bottom line:  NQ is not a charity, its goal is to make money.  It does that via subscriptions and the creation of a game worthy of people paying that subscription.  Being able to craft a DAC, although perhaps personally (for you) desirable, defeats the core income goal.

 

In my opinion:  DACs should be limited to their role of being a reward.  e.g.  An extension of the subscription model.  So founders, that paid significant funds up front, get rewarded at release with the ability to play for a number of months directly associated with the quantity of funds they paid.  That is what was published during initial fundraising and is not only fair, its probably legally required.

 

I could see DACs (likely singular) being given out to players who uncover major bugs and whom go through the effort of writing up detailed enough bug reports that enable the developers to find and squash that bug.  Of course, that would be controversial (why did Sam get a DAC and I didn't...) and would likely require some bug report scoring mechanism which was included in a reply.  Something like:  "You were the first person to report this bug so earned 0.5 point, your bug report was clearly written (0.1 points), you provided a scenario that was repeatable (0.3 points), and you included illustrating screen captures (0.2 points). This bug affects everyone in the general population (0.8 points).  Congratulations, your score is above 1.0 and therefore we have placed a DAC in your inventory.  Thanks for the great work."

 

I'm vehemently against being able to trade DACs.  Doing so is a gold bot's wet dream. 

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DAC's are the mechanic that NQ will use to keep selling you the game after you already have payed the subscription. It is that simple.

And players being able to generate their own DAC's would lead to deflation of the actual game subscription worth in RL, and that is the last thing NQ would want.

 

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13 hours ago, blazemonger said:

And that is me still being nice..

 

I feel no optism here. Maybe you should find something to look forward to.

 

I want the goal of collecting the materials, quanta for the schematics, designing the ships to fight over the resources, pvping to get the materials, having to group up to grow a larger stake in the market or make connections to trade the end game materials. That gets me excited to play the game again, but that means there needs to be a full game loop, and without DAC I don't see it happening. The simple game loops that exist will not drive more growth, the game is getting stale for many. In good part by NQs own fault of not communicating that well.

 

But back to game loops. For many of the players, there is no major game loop, to date. Sure there are npc missions, and sure there are/were many builders, and sure some people like PvE mining in the safe zone, but what's the point? To pay taxes? To have more ships? As a solo, the game is limited. It ends up being just a simple version of space engineers, a crappy Factorio, and a terrible econ grinder.

 

After you blow past a billion, there isn't much left to the game. It turns into a grind, a daily calibration grind. Before you know it, the entire game is just one or two simple loops, and sure, maybe this DAC will turn into another simple little loop, but I feel like NQ has tried and tried and tried but yet failed to bring that masses into pvp space.

 

The risk vs reward options are limited. The big carrot needs to be added, and I'm sticking to it. We need to have a player craftable DAC, so that some industry people will need to work with some pvpers, who then work with ship designers, Lua coders, more industry players to source their elements, all who need to work with PvE players to get the fundamentals.

 

A major game loop opportunity lays before NQ.

 

Maybe it's not a big enough carrot, but I think with a good implementation it could be a turn around point for the game.

 

I'm sorry if you don't believe in their original ideas, I get it, they haven't really stuck to many of the original ideas. And NQ have made plenty of features that have had rough edges for way to long. That is a given. But I'm still holding on for the game to have some success. And yes that probably means a wipe. But that doesn't mean you have to nit pick every single detail. It's a game, if your not having fun or getting enough entertainment out of it, there are plenty of other options.

 

 

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1 hour ago, space_man said:

The risk vs reward options are limited. The big carrot needs to be added, and I'm sticking to it. We need to have a player craftable DAC, so that some industry people will need to work with some pvpers, who then work with ship designers, Lua coders, more industry players to source their elements, all who need to work with PvE players to get the fundamentals.

 

You seem to lack a fundamental understanding of what DAC is and represents. it is a REVENUE STREAM for NQ and as such it is one of the things, they will depend on to MAKE MONEY. your idea removes that purpose from the token and instead would make it a revenue stream for gold sellers and those looking to exploit the game for RMT in general.

 

If your objective is to provide a way to play without having to pay a subscription, you would do work in game to earn quanta and then buy a DAC using said quanta to then activate gametime with it.

 

DAC will be a tradable item in game yes, it can't ever be a craftable item.

 

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NQ is or will be miscalculating the demand for DAC in game.. 

 

The amount you pay for a quanta IRL will be stable, the amount of quanta you pay for a DAC in game will be determined by the market and will be dependent on demand. I do think that not many will be selling DAC in game unless it represents a good bit of value and as it stands there is not much in game that would accommodate this as everything is relatively cheap and easy to obtain.

 

I expect NQ will have the wrong expectations of DAC in game altogether, resulting in them likely introducing bots buying DAC in an attempt to establish a baseline price. That will also fail as the players who have DAC, especially in the early days of the server post release and wipe, will have all the knowledge and experience they need to get what they need/want without selling DAC in game to begin with.

 

There simply is no reason to sell DAC in game at all and there is no indicators that this will change anytime soon. the current pool of DAC will be used to fund accounts directly and I do not see DAC becoming much of an option in game.

 

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If they relaunch with bots buying DAC at a fixed price, that would be an absolutely hillarious repeat of history. Might even put in a hunny just to piss of wipists with a millionaire screeny 2 hours into relaunch.

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8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

NQ is or will be miscalculating the demand for DAC in game.. 

 

The amount you pay for a quanta IRL will be stable, the amount of quanta you pay for a DAC in game will be determined by the market and will be dependent on demand. I do think that not many will be selling DAC in game unless it represents a good bit of value and as it stands there is not much in game that would accommodate this as everything is relatively cheap and easy to obtain.

 

I expect NQ will have the wrong expectations of DAC in game altogether, resulting in them likely introducing bots buying DAC in an attempt to establish a baseline price. That will also fail as the players who have DAC, especially in the early days of the server post release and wipe, will have all the knowledge and experience they need to get what they need/want without selling DAC in game to begin with.

 

There simply is no reason to sell DAC in game at all and there is no indicators that this will change anytime soon. the current pool of DAC will be used to fund accounts directly and I do not see DAC becoming much of an option in game.

 

 

There isn't big enough sinks or actual valuable rare items. No NPCs to shoot. In eve even non pvpers will buy high end gear to run missions and wormhole sleepers.  Or buy plex to pay for pvp so they don't have to run boring missions. You are right the demand will be low for people to actually buy them to sell them for ingame quanta.  Like what you gonna do with the money? Pvp? As shown by the thread here fleet pvp only happens once every 6 months or so, and the rest is some small skirmish at asteroids.  The playerbase currently had billions, and people still don't really pvp.  DAC will be relatively meaningless in the games current state.

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