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PANACEA (0.28) UPDATE NOW AVAILABLE - discussion thread


NQ-Wanderer
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I want to share my mistake to reinforce the need to be able to pay Quanta to reset talents. I spent my refunded points on corp talents first and as a result I spent all those points on talents I will never use. To be clear that was my fault for not paying attention. This and many other reasons is why there is a need to be able to pay Quanta to reset talent points. Even if has a long cool down since this seems to be taboo for reasons I don't understand. On good note I'm seeing lots of positive feed back about the Vertex Precision Tool so I think that might be a win.

Edited by Namcigam
typo
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Are Territory units included to Inactive Asset Requisitioning (IAR)?
If not please add them to IAR on upcoming updates.

 

Also we should be able to use IAR-Market tile rules to dynamic constructs parked without permission on our own territories or org territories.

Tagging tile as visitors welcome could increase parking time/lease.

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49 minutes ago, kulkija said:

Are Territory units included to Inactive Asset Requisitioning (IAR)?
If not please add them to IAR on upcoming updates.

 

This is what territory upkeep is for. :)

 

40 minutes ago, kulkija said:

Is there a conflict between Promo video (1:21) where player repairs abandoned construct's core and this note from patch-notes:

image.png.b8eb70ae60bec4414908e7f0b1a3ceac.png

 

https://youtu.be/c1B0s6ttFpg?t=81 

 

The video content was created quite some time before the change was implemented, as such the video might be slightly out of alignment. But yes, it does now require core elements to replace core units.

 

15 minutes ago, Endstar said:

Appears like Super Legates giving core slots to their org needs a bit of a review. 

 

Could you be a little bit more specific? 

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Dare I say...
The Vertex tool is quite well done.

it is easy to tell which vertex is selected.

it has the two BIG asks i needed. you can set the step (grid) size to ONE. you can see the current location of the vertex in numerical format.

 

All in all this rocks.

ps, the release notes failed to mention that holding down the ctrl key when pushing the directionals will quad-step the increment. handy.

 

Thank you folks!!!!!!!!

Now if you would just add the "hide the hand tool in build mode" checkbox I have been BEGGING FOR, I will truly be a happy camper.

 

Thanks much.

Tordan

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It appears to me that the VPT has some problems either with a bug or with UX design in general. When I click on a vertex the selected vertex position seems to default to a position far from where it was before you selected it. This forces the user to make more changes than they should have to when repositioning a vertex.

When you select a vertex with the VPT, the position of the VPT tool vertex representation should be where it was before you selected it.

Edited by TobiwanKenobi
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3 hours ago, Namcigam said:

I want to share my mistake to reinforce the need to be able to pay Quanta to reset talents. I spent my refunded points on corp talents first and as a result I spent all those points on talents I will never use. To be clear that was my fault for not paying attention. This and many other reasons is why there is a need to be able to pay Quanta to reset talent points. Even if has a long cool down since this seems to be taboo for reasons I don't understand. On good note I'm seeing lots of positive feed back about the Vertex Precision Tool so I think that might be a win.

 

Credit where credit is due Deckard has helped me correct my mistake. He didn't have to but he did and I am grateful. ?

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6 hours ago, NQ-Wanderer said:

Hello Noveans,

 

Panacea is live! Please continue to share your opinions; we’ll be keeping a careful watch on this forum thread for your comments regarding the Panacea update.

 

Surface Harvester: After playing for so long picking up rocks off the ground is a really jagged pill...I'm skilling up talents but I dunno if I can commit to that... but I'm willing to try 

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Is there some way to start over (entirely)?  Every time I try to play it seems like I am stuck in a tutorial tower littered with hundreds of husks of other people's tutorial constructs.  I purchased way back in Kickstarter, so maybe that's the problem (stuck in some early build location)?

 

Thanks.

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NQ,

 

Issue with VPT tool : when you select the voxel, it jumps far from its original place. ( If you do it after re-login - first placement is in place, not jumping away ).

Basically it remembers the last position of the voxel you worked with, and if you select another voxel, it will jump to that position ( delta X, delta Y, delta Y ) of previously edited voxel.

 

// M

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As an experienced voxelmancer, I have problems with a few aspects of the VPT. These issues make it awkward and unintutive to use.

---
ISSUE #1: Strange cursor behavior.
As stated in the VPT devblog:
"-[Press] The End key to send your cursor to the last confirmed coordinates. (This also happens by default when you change vertices.)"

Please change this! Or at least give us an option to change the normal setting. The cursor should not default to the last confirmed coordinates, it should default to the current vertex coordinates. The use-cases for a last confirmed start position are few - players usually want to start at the current vertex coords. Having to press 'Home' every time I select a vertex is awkward.

---
ISSUE #2:  Difficulty in selecting vertices that are distant from their natural position(0,0,0).

Situation: I have a thin voxel plate that is 1/14vx thick. (The top of voxel is squished down to 1/14vx above the bottom) I want to select one of the top vertices, but I can't. The tool only allows me to select the bottom vertex. I am forced to place another voxel above the thin plate that stretches down to meet the plate and gives me something to click on where the vertex I want to select is.

Solution: Give us an alternate mode for selecting vertices that selects actual voxel vertices rather than selecting a vertex origin point. Or better yet, make this the default method. (This has always been an issue with selecting voxels with the Select Voxel Tool; one that we get around by pasting a normal voxel in the spot that we want to select, selecting the spot, then undoing. I hope we can find a solution to these problems that doesn't involve workarounds by the player.)

---
ISSUE #3: Difficultly in properly viewing the vertex you're editing, especially if it's down at your feet.

This one is self-explanatory. I can't really see what I'm doing when the vertex is down at my feet or otherwise far from my POV. Of course we have the vertex coordinates to give us information on the vertex, but that leaves visualzation difficult.  I don't know how we could go about improving this besides allowing players to phase through voxels and elements in build mode, which I know is off-limits. Perhaps a player-view zoom feature could be helpful - usable with a hotkey? Binoculars built into your nano-suit helmet. :P

---

ISSUE #4: My avatar arm and tool is, as always, in the way. Can my avatar be an amputee?

Edited by TobiwanKenobi
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10 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

It appears to me that the VPT has some problems either with a bug or with UX design in general. When I click on a vertex the selected vertex position seems to default to a position far from where it was before you selected it. This forces the user to make more changes than they should have to when repositioning a vertex.

When you select a vertex with the VPT, the position of the VPT tool vertex representation should be where it was before you selected it.

 

Press home :)

 

We actually have the last position in memory. Which is quite practical when you have several blocks to modify one after the other.

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7 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

 

Press home :)

 

We actually have the last position in memory. Which is quite practical when you have several blocks to modify one after the other.

But it's not practical at all when you're trying to modify a voxel normally, which is the typical situation. Copy paste is what we use when we want to modify a bunch of voxels in succession. Imagine if every time you tried to copy a voxel, it instead copied the previous voxel that you pasted unless you specifically told it not to. That would be awkward. I clicked on the vertex to edit that vertex, not to edit the last vertex I edited.

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12 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

It appears to me that the VPT has some problems either with a bug or with UX design in general. When I click on a vertex the selected vertex position seems to default to a position far from where it was before you selected it. This forces the user to make more changes than they should have to when repositioning a vertex.

When you select a vertex with the VPT, the position of the VPT tool vertex representation should be where it was before you selected it.

 

3 hours ago, m0rrtson said:

NQ,

 

Issue with VPT tool : when you select the voxel, it jumps far from its original place. ( If you do it after re-login - first placement is in place, not jumping away ).

Basically it remembers the last position of the voxel you worked with, and if you select another voxel, it will jump to that position ( delta X, delta Y, delta Y ) of previously edited voxel.

 

// M

 

3 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

ISSUE #1: Strange cursor behavior.
As stated in the VPT devblog:
"-[Press] The End key to send your cursor to the last confirmed coordinates. (This also happens by default when you change vertices.)"

Please change this! Or at least give us an option to change the normal setting. The cursor should not default to the last confirmed coordinates, it should default to the current vertex coordinates. The use-cases for a last confirmed start position are few - players usually want to start at the current vertex coords. Having to press 'Home' every time I select a vertex is awkward.

 

This is indeed the current design, after spending multiple hours testing with both approaches we decided that keeping the last recorded position offers far more utility to be able to apply the same change over and over again. That utility is essentially gone and very painful compared to just hitting the home key to send the cursor back to the currently selected vertex position. As such we included keys for doing all 3 actions, returning to last confirmed coordinate, returning to currently selected vertex coordinate, and centring to 0, 0, 0.

 

We may look into a toggle setting for this in the future and the feedback is much appreciated. :) 

 

3 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

ISSUE #2:  Difficulty in selecting vertices that are distant from their natural position(0,0,0).

Situation: I have a thin voxel plate that is 1/14vx thick. (The top of voxel is squished down to 1/14vx above the bottom) I want to select one of the top vertices, but I can't. The tool only allows me to select the bottom vertex. I am forced to place another voxel above the thin plate that stretches down to meet the plate and gives me something to click on where the vertex I want to select is.

 

You are actually able to move the selection with the arrow keys and page up and down, exactly like the place voxel tools. Similarly to the above mentioned control option to jump 4 steps in one go. You are able to mouse over a neighbouring voxel and use the arrow keys to maneuver to the vertex you want to edit before clicking to open editing mode.

 

3 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

ISSUE #3: Difficultly in properly viewing the vertex you're editing, especially if it's down at your feet.

This one is self-explanatory. I can't really see what I'm doing when the vertex is down at my feet or otherwise far from my POV. Of course we have the vertex coordinates to give us information on the vertex, but that leaves visualzation difficult.  I don't know how we could go about improving this besides allowing players to phase through voxels and elements in build mode, which I know is off-limits. Perhaps a player-view zoom feature could be helpful - usable with a hotkey? Binoculars built into your nano-suit helmet. :P

 

Sorry to say this is not something I have a magical solution for that's feasible. :) I'll share the zoom idea with the team.

 

3 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

ISSUE #4: My avatar arm and tool is, as always, in the way.

 

This is something we will be discussing internally.

 

3 hours ago, Musclethorpe said:

Can you give us any more information on space wrecks? Are they permanent? Do they respawn weekly? Can we replace their core/repair modules and fly them away?

 

They are not permanent, if not claimed they will eventually be replaced with a new one in a new location, they do respawn at regular intervals and you can indeed replace their core and repair them before flying them away in the sunset! ;) 

 

1 hour ago, kulkija said:

Does it include situation where un-subbed player has its personal tiles set as HQ

 

Not currently, but it may be implemented in a future update, as was stated to the same question during the Demeter release. 

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1 hour ago, NQ-Deckard said:

You are actually able to move the selection with the arrow keys and page up and down, exactly like the place voxel tools. Similarly to the above mentioned control option to jump 4 steps in one go. You are able to mouse over a neighbouring voxel and use the arrow keys to maneuver to the vertex you want to edit before clicking to open editing mode.

Oh wow. I never would have known. That should do nicely.

Thanks very much for your responses to those four issues.

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Dumb question: Where do I see total personal core slots for my character and how many are used?

 

[EDIT: Hang on. Someone just told me there's no way to see your total/used personal slots. So... I have to either:

 

(A) Wait for a warning that my character is over quota and hope it tells me by how much, to figure out what constructs I need to transfer to my org, build nothing new in the interim, and then hope there's enuf slots left in my org? OR

 

(B) Work my way through the construct list in the map clicking every construct to see if it's personal or org, write all that down, then get the calculator out to figure my personal cap by tallying up the +3s, +5s and +10s in Talents?

 

Frikkin frik.]

 

[EDIT #2: Just wonderful. Slots also not allocating properly. 10 slots missing (first 22 slots allocated only added 12 to the org). Ticket raised: image.png.1498172ea5e7bd7b673c8f7a893a4bec.png]

Edited by Megabosslord
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7 hours ago, TobiwanKenobi said:

ISSUE #4: My avatar arm and tool is, as always, in the way. Can my avatar be an amputee?

 

 

Yes I also regularly struggle with it, they should give us a key to swap arm, could also be used for RP/machinima purposes.

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4 hours ago, NQ-Deckard said:

We may look into a toggle setting for this in the future and the feedback is much appreciated.

I too thought this was bug at first, but I can see use for it. I do however rather press END to reach the same position, than having to press HOME every time I select a new vertex to edit. A toggle for this would be great.

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