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What do you think about tax suspension?


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Do you REALLY think they will change ANYTHING FOR THE BETTER .... You should know better by now ... The game should simply STOP. Should be taken over by someone, anyone else, re-started the Development of the CORE GAME DESIGN, mark it for what it is - a PRE-ALPHA - start a Crowdfunding - and start implementing actualy GAMEPLAY FEATURES of an SPACE EXPLORATION game, an engaging, intriguing, mysterious universe, and not a Dead Universe.

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It was ironic.
 

It is enough to be in an organization of ten members to see the list of MU lengthening indecently.
 

But NQ will certainly never do this kind of information sharing.
Already we can't follow a ship in the atmosphere because of the desynchronization. I can't imagine the carnage of all the MUs sending all their info to the whole server...

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1 hour ago, Thunderblaze said:

I think they should increase the taxes after review.

They should also reduce the amount of charges, 10 is extremely generous... you can go almost a full 2 days before needing to use your charges! Heck, they also need to reduce the time period between taxation cycles, it should be daily- not weekly!

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Those are Rookie Numbers.

A million a day and a single charge per Skill Level so a maximum of five saved charges.
Charges regenerate at an hour per charge.


That'll keep the players on their toes and provide hours of continuous "quality DU content" (TM).


Damn, I shouldn't give them ideas.

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On 1/11/2022 at 10:19 AM, blundertwink said:

Per this announcement, taxes are now suspended for two weeks to give NQ time to "revisit the tax rate". 

 

I wonder what they will actually change...? Personally, I think they need to change the frequency of the tax, not just the amount. A weekly upkeep creates a psychological pressure that will make the game seem like a chore no matter what the tax amount is, but that's just my opinion as someone that can't play every day. 

 

If they simply halved the tax rate, would that be good enough...or do they need more fundamental changes with this system? 

 

NQ really has no idea how to institute sinks properly so that they arent just knee jerk reactions to problems that they initially created due to again not knowing what they were doing and compounding the problem. The thing is they could have started with 100k taxes per tile and stepped it up every month to find the sweet spot but instead they just went and made casual players and new players so cumbersome trying to wipe the server of constructs they should have seen it being a problem but instead the devs litterally laughed as they introduced the system and said suck it your going to pay taxes even when the players were like this system is not going to work and will destroy the economy since it was going to create a treadmill to flood the market with ore that would eventually need market manipulation to take all that ore out of the markets which again compounds the problem they initially introduced with missions and the tax system that was going to take it out by then needing to give more unlimited quanta to take the ore out with more unlimited quanta.

 

NQ just throws things out there with little to no consideration of the actually systemic issues plaguing the game. They know they need to do something to avoid a wipe but they cave too easily when this game needs sinks just not so in your face and linking needing 100 territories vs 1 tile with 100 miners and taxing miners themselves or industry units rather than tiles directly since the real problem is everyone is spamming out too many things people dont need in general since nothing leaves the game ever unless you are the 5% of the people who actually PvP.

 

The thing is that they need quanta sinks, resources sinks, wear and tear sinks based on parts usage, and a slow erosion based system in conjunction with a simple tax system that is 100K per taxes with mining disjointed from the main tax factor.

 

What MUs needed was a prospecting system:

  • 1,000,00h for 10 L/H permanantly for T1 ore on 1 tile
  • 2,000,000h for 10 L/H permanantly for T2 ore on 1 Tile
  • 3,000,000h for 10 L/H permanantly for T3 ore on 1 tile
  • 4,000,000h for 10 L/H permanantly for T4 ore on 1 tile
  • 5,000,000h for 10 L/H permanantly for T5 ore on 1 tile

 

  • 20,000,000h to add T2 ore to a tile permanantly with 10 L/h starting
  • 30,000,000h to add T3 ore to a tile permanantly with 10 L/h starting
  • 40,000,000h to add T4 ore to a tile permanantly with 10 L/H starting
  • 50,000,000h to add T5 ore to a tile permanantly with 10 L/H starting

 

Its all about the carrot and stick approach. When NQ just doles out stick based punishments like taxes and laughs and sais suck it your going to pay taxes and at the same time drops a half baked mining system rather than making it something people would be happy to spend millions or billions gladly on like the prospecting system above to get rid of huge amounts of billions or trillions out of the system for minimal gains that could lead to having all your miners on a single tile or baking in the taxes so that each upgrade adds 1-5,000h per upgrade so that you dont need 100 tiles but can get the same production over time as 100 tiles and only needing 1 tile and using your org to upgrade 1 or more tiles to make them actually viable is another story rather than just making each tile pretty much worthless by large so you need to pay taxes to actually break even, progress, and still have enough resources left over to make parts or voxels.

 

But NQ makes half baked systems with no fore thought to the consiquences or the band aid fixes to problems they create. The only reason they are reversing course is because they are losing players like many told them would happen and they thought they knew better and as per usual they simply dont.

 

Like they could have set up destructible elements to have more than 3 deaths or by tier that or grade or by tag so that they were reasonable but then went and didnt single destroy cores that broke the system. Sure it was based on user error for the most part but during that time there was a lot of lag, bugs, glitches that broke parts and still randomly break parts for no reason to this day or blew up your ship or where your ship randomly just decides to fly itself and blow up. It needed to be more forgiving but they went ham on 3 strikes your out.

 

Its the same with taxes. Its too much too often the same as it is with the MUs. Taxes would have been more acceptable if it was every 2 weeks or the same with MUs where you get a week of efficiency at 100% and have to touch them once a week. The problem is that you spend more time then not at sub optimal efficiency and having to run all over the place not being able to do what you want most of the time and then what time is left you are picking up and selling ore for no real reason just to cover tiles and you have little to no time to actually do what you want in game that is the real problem with the taxes.

 

Calibration needs to go or be changed to requiring nitron or other fuels to just keep MUs running so you dont have to touch them after the initial start. You dont really get much ore as is other than the calibration ore which should just be either automatically spawned every hour or just added to the output of the machines since every 36 hours you get the equivelent of 4.5 tiles and it is far too tedious as it stands.

 

It also chains players down to wherever you set up the tiles as you need to be within range of the tiles since the bonus is dependent on the size of the cluster and since you can pretty much keep up 13 or so tiles along with using the HQ tiles to get more bonuses on border tiles to make it worth it.

 

Seeing as anything below T3 no longer matters it proves that ore does not really matter in the long run or the geographic location it comes from and since you can pretty much farm T1 ore and trade up to T3 at a 1:1-1.5 exchange rate it shows that the ore really is not worth it or that people are still holding onto large sums of hoarded ore. Seeing as even T4-5 ore is 4-6:1 T1 ore why even go through the trouble of mining and transporting the ore when you dont even need to jump through all the hoops for the same byproduct at the end. 

 

I just wonder what the next knee jerk reaction is to all the problems they have created will be.

 

 

 

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[filtered] yeah let's gate every tile such that they're all the same, that way there is no need for trade and specialisation, god forbid strategy should have anything to do with. No give everyone the same, linear and singular path to success. While we're at it fix all prices so a player knows in advance how much they earn in a given time, and fix them such that no matter how disjointed the players plan from the ingame economy is, all strategies, no matter how poorly thought out, need to allways reward the player equally. That oughta create ambition and a player driven universe.

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⚠️ Maybe sarcasm in general should be urgently marked with many smileys or a sarcasm warning,
otherwise NQ might actually implement some ideas to him false belief.
 ⚠️

Edited by Zarcata
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Sorry for the sarcasm. Sometimes I am just baffled. <- this was allready written before zarcata posted. ngl you had me in the first half because I'm feeling kinda guilty I might have went overboard. Anyway...


Here is something I've read more than once recently: players going bankrupt since demeter. And really like, what? I don't get it, did they just pay 3 weeks of tax in advance, on god knows how many tiles, see how it goes? Seriously what's the worst tile you ever scanned, do you happen to live on a similar tile, if so why? Not trying to be condescending here just trying to think through it. You wanted to sustain your tiles by selling ore. You needed 1 000 000 per tile. T1 will allways sell at least 25 quanta. That's 40k T1 a week, any liter above is pure profit. I mean if it's that what you want, a foolprof low effort way to have a passive income.

40k divided per 7, that's 5714 liter a day, 238 liter an hour. Basically, 2 basic mining units L can sustain a tile with a few talents trained, not necessarily up to level5, what's left over is for you. You can further boost income with adjacancy bonus, the guy with the white wolf avatar claims to manage a 7 tile flower with one account IIRC, I'd be interested to know how he splits up his calibrations. If he doesn't want to divulge his strategy that's fine too, but let's have transparancy instead of narrative, if you're unhappy show us your worst scans and tell us why you'd wanna stay there, what are your best scans in comparison if you have no particular reason for staying?


And remember all of that is just for the low effort foolproof way to turn a profit. I am aware that sticking to that businessmodel, currently the "obvious" instinct is to increase the worth of the output of each MU, by going for more expensive ore. Thus the prices of higher ores keeps falling, and oh no maybe will stop hauling higher ores to the safezone alltogether... except then prices will raise again it might take a while but they will, and in the meantime if the price of the ores is anything to say about the price of the elements, the relative buying power of somebody who joined the game just yesterday is way higher compared to what it was 4 months ago. I don't monitor the prices of elements, but fuel and scraps are cheap at the moment. In my eyes all of this creates opportunities for trading playstyles.

It took schematics to make me care about quanta, I could have solo grinded this until all the ores in all the planets got sparse, still havent touched a milliliter of the t4 and t5 I hoarded... So as I said it might take a while for the prices of those ores to rise again, but eventually everybody will want to fly the hottest stuff, I strongly suspect I am particularely patient when it comes to that.

Let us have a look at the big picture here:

Before we had a theoretically infinite supply of quanta, and a finite amount of ore. Now to be clear, many act like it was allready all tapped, but tell you what I found and bought about 4 T1 meganodes, all in a 120km radius around D6 as late as spring-summer 2021. But ultimatively the ore supply was finite.

Now we have both an infinite supply of quanta, in form of missions, and an infinite supply of ore, but are very much only capped by the time it takes to enact those mechanisms. NQ was well advised to act prudently and not shower us in ore, it could only have delivered another talking point to the wipists. As it stands, I'd prefer less pressure to play too, less of a hamsterwheel, just let us split up our time into less frequent but longer sessions, but still persistence does need to be rewarded (I've elaborated my precise thoughts on MU rebalancing somewhere in this forum earlier). And then all would be fine for a moment, a cheap supply of ressources, means we can play and fill the worlds with megaprojects more easily, there are still huge ressource sinks to fill in that regard, but they're more like landfills rather than actual sinks. Long term a lack of sinks will be an issue but that's not where we are right now.

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7 hours ago, Sabretooth said:

So if taxes are suspended, are players now massively claiming former owned tiles for free now?

Since you dont have to pay the 2 weeks tax. Kinda "free" looting.

No. I just claimed a tile and tax is due in 3 days. It seems tax is suspended for old claims only.

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6 hours ago, Overstimuloredom said:

Before we had a theoretically infinite supply of quanta, and a finite amount of ore. Now to be clear, many act like it was allready all tapped, but tell you what I found and bought about 4 T1 meganodes, all in a 120km radius around D6 as late as spring-summer 2021. But ultimatively the ore supply was finite.


 

This is not quite true.
Explanation:

The ore on the moons and planets was "theoretically" finite before Demeter, but due to recurring surface ore it was already infinite at that time. The ore to dig out was also only partially infinite, because the total ore in the solar system was so much that we players can still mine years of it, it would not have been temporally possible to let it become "empty", the same applies to the information that one could bring new planets / moons or if necessary a complete solar system into the game at any time by NQ, so that there would have been no ore shortage.
The only thing that limited ore was the number of players times the available time per player.

Now hardly anything has changed in this respect. Whoever wants to set up MiningUnits and then receives depending on calibration and care every hour ore or every 24 hours surface ore. At the same time, each player can also visit the asteroids to mine ore there, whether safe zone or PvP area, currently there are many asteroids with a lot of ore deposits. At the same time, this deposit is replenished every week.
 

Conclusion: Neither then nor now is ore infinite, because there is a natural limit. (Number of players and time per player)


 

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9 hours ago, Sabretooth said:

So if taxes are suspended, are players now massively claiming former owned tiles for free now?

Since you dont have to pay the 2 weeks tax. Kinda "free" looting.

Unless they have changed it,  the requisition process continues even if the tiles go inactive. I had a few tiles that I claimed and never paid tax on, and had no problem with the requisition of those static constructs.  You just need to complete the requisition after the requisition timer is up, and before the tile goes abandoned( 3 days  ). You may be able to complete the requisition after the tile goes abandoned , but I haven't tried that. 

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Classic psychological manipulation. Make you eat shit until you are almost dead then offer a brief reprieve in a grand act of charity and understanding. Soon you'll be eating shit again and will have forgotten how the cycle controls you and keeps relieving you of your money. 

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