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a survey on everyones .23 thoughts in 3 questions


what is your view on the .23 update?  

66 members have voted

  1. 1. was .23 a good update?

    • yes
      21
    • no
      38
    • im not sure
      7
  2. 2. are you excited for .24?

    • yes
      20
    • no
      17
    • i dont know
      3
    • ill wait and see
      26
  3. 3. how do you feel about NQs decision making?

    • very bad
      17
    • bad
      22
    • im in the middle
      16
    • good
      2
    • very good
      5
    • im not sure
      4


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6 minutes ago, Snipey said:

.23 was an excellent update. It lacked a basic thought of how an economy works. The only job to make $ is dig and its very boring. Had .23 came with this mission system people would not have flocked out of the game as fast as they did.

I do not agree. While I understand the purpose of the schematics I find it a terrible design to not being able to replicate one once I've bought it.

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6 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

I do not agree. While I understand the purpose of the schematics I find it a terrible design to not being able to replicate one once I've bought it.

I think snipey was being sarcastic, and is on a similar page you are. 

 

16 minutes ago, Snipey said:

.23 was an excellent update. It lacked a basic thought of how an economy works. The only job to make $ is dig and its very boring. Had .23 came with this mission system people would not have flocked out of the game as fast as they did.

yep, well put (also perma destruction contributed alot)

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12 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

I do not agree. While I understand the purpose of the schematics I find it a terrible design to not being able to replicate one once I've bought it.

This is a joke right? You understand how an economy works? You are talking about something worse than when players were able to get a huge discount on schematics for 30 minutes.
 

7 minutes ago, ELX987 said:

I think snipey was being sarcastic, and is on a similar page you are. 

No.

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8 minutes ago, Snipey said:

This is a joke right? You understand how an economy works? You are talking about something worse than when players were able to get a huge discount on schematics for 30 minutes.
 

No.

i meant with the "excellent" statement, my bad i should have clarified

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47 minutes ago, Snipey said:

This is a joke right? You understand how an economy works? You are talking about something worse than when players were able to get a huge discount on schematics for 30 minutes.
 

No.

It has nothing to do with economy, it's just  lazy design, given I have the machines and the materials it makes no sense that I cant run 2 machines simultaneously with the same instructions.

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On 2/11/2021 at 9:25 AM, Fra119 said:

It has nothing to do with economy, it's just  lazy design, given I have the machines and the materials it makes no sense that I cant run 2 machines simultaneously with the same instructions.

I agree. The lore sucks goats. Who are we paying? Why do they need our money. 
 

I hate bots with a passion: we’re basically paying magic potion NPC BOTS for stuff. Just like players being able to disintegrate megatonnes of the finite ores week by week by selling them to NPC bots and removing them from the market, ultimately fucking everything up to the point where PvP is ENTIRELY superfluous in terms of resource sink. 
 

personally I think they could  have just made all the industrial machines more expensive from the start with high tiered machines being geometrically so.
 

Then make researching the schematics a thing and allow groups to use or sell schematics and allow schematics then work for a whole factory by placing them in a central industrial schematic manager or something. 
 

what is the physics behind schematics only being able to enable bolts or magnets on a single machine. 
 

Thoughtless immersion breaking reasoning.  
very poor effort considering JC has a PhD. Although that may be why he left academia in the first place, who knows....

 

... harsh, I know, but the lack of even basic consistency or even any robust logic in some cases would not bode well for someone in any sort of critical analysis or research field. 

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A lot of people will declare 0.23 a bad update since it removed the industry gameplay for some people (also removing the possibility of being independant) while not having added another gameplay.

So a lot of people may say "no" to "was 0.23 a good update" but in fact they may dislike the removal of industry gameplay but not the shematics addition.

 

So I think you should separate that in 2 questions: shematics and not being to be independant anymore.

 

Other than that I think shematics force specialization which is a good thing for the economy (so not everybody is independant).

 

Job system gonna add content for most people and should help I think.

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For me worst part of 0.23 (even besides other endless things to discuss, pros and cons), that way it was implemented caused heavy population damage in situation when DU was already not exactly crowded.


I think there is no need to explain to MMO vets how dangerous is population bleeding for such games...

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12 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I agree. The lore sucks goats. Who are we paying? Why do they need our money. 
 

I hate bots with a passion: we’re basically paying magic potion NOC BOTS for stuff. Just like players being able to disintegrate megatonnes of the finite ores week by week by selling them to NOC bots and removing them from the market, ultimately fucking everything up to the point where PvP is ENTIRELY superfluous in terms of resource sink. 
 

personally I think they could  have just made all the industrial machines more expensive from the start with thigh tiered machines being geometrically so.
 

Then make researching the schematics a thing and allow groups to use or sell schematics and allow schematics then work for a whole factory by placing them in a central industrial schematic manager or something. 
 

what is the physics behind schematics only being able to enable bolts or magnets on a single machine. 
 

Thoughtless immersion breaking reasoning.  
very poor effort considering JC has a PhD. Although that may be why he left academia in the first place, who knows....

 

... harsh, I know, but the lack of even basic consistency or even any robust logic in some cases would not bode well for someone in any sort of critical analysis or research field. 

JC has a PhD? Well that explains a lot. Most Doctorate level academics are so smart that they have forgotten about human nature and how the world really works.

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0.23 was actually good in principle, the intention was good. NQ blew it on the implementation and failed due to a lack of actual understanding why the patch was needed and rolling it out ill prepared, into a game not ready for the change and for the wrong reasons. So that made it a bad update and it scores a No

 

I am not at all exited for 0.24 and have expectations for it so low that I'd actually be surprised if NQ manages to not meet them but I can see them do just that. for that reason, a No again.

 

Question 3 gets a "Bad" from me as I have to give them points for intent (which I believe to be good) even when execution and follow through is terrible.

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For playing it’s been terrible.

 

for the shear entertainment or watching the forum gripe, the devs squirm, and similar.  It’s been like extra value on my 6 month sub.  Honestly  more than I was expecting since I was planning on ditching the game after PvP was implemented, while waiting for an eventual EVE style Wormhole update (to increase permeability of PvP/PvE boarders, and provide mass/scale limiting PvP).

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12 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I hate bots with a passion: we’re basically paying magic potion NOC BOTS for stuff. Just like players being able to disintegrate megatonnes of the finite ores week by week by selling them to NOC bots and removing them from the market, ultimately fucking everything up to the point where PvP is ENTIRELY superfluous in terms of resource sink.

I do see where you are coming from, and I even agree to up to a certain point. But the economy in DU is at best "an early version" like most other things in the game, and bots for better or worse are currently the only way to injecting new cash into the economy (they also remove I know, but still).

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13 hours ago, Fra119 said:

It has nothing to do with economy, it's just  lazy design, given I have the machines and the materials it makes no sense that I cant run 2 machines simultaneously with the same instructions.

Can you run two copies of Windows, without an additional license?  Not sure why it makes no sense, the schematics let you run one machine, to run two, you need two.  What is confusing?

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0.23 Patch in a nutshell compared to a famous IKEA slogan:
"Are you already playing or are you still mining?

 

No but seriously, all the schematics made the whole game unattractive for <5 players. And I still play together with others, so "go to a bigger org where you get mass instead of class" is not an option. If it's frustrating and also not convincing in group play, then something is wrong. But hey, at least you get enough pittance when you team up. And that's for doing nothing. Exciting gameplay looks different to me. But no one at NQ seems to understand that. 

0.24 will not solve the core problem. They will try to treat the symptoms, but the disease will remain. Basically, if you read the devblog on the mission system, it will come down to just writing what you do today in the system. But that won't expand your activities or make PvP more lucrative if you haven't done it before. 

 

And until the full game loop is in, you're carrying mechanics that were either started and never polished, or put so far behind that you wonder why you'd need to finance in the current state a tech demo / showroom demo, what people can build. Well, what does finance mean. You don't have to if accounts are still active and running from January. NQ also can't seem to decide whether to have a subscription model or not. :D 

 

It is a bitter pill to swallow in the current state. We can only hope that the patches after 0.24 will be more interesting. But I don't expect it before late spring.

Until then, the question will be how long the players will put up with this. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

Can you run two copies of Windows, without an additional license?  Not sure why it makes no sense, the schematics let you run one machine, to run two, you need two.  What is confusing?

Schematics are not the os, they are the .pdf file you need for your printer to print the document. Or the .STL file for your 3d printer, I bet you don't need to pay the same model twice in order to print it from 2 printers simultaneously.

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52 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

Schematics are not the os, they are the .pdf file you need for your printer to print the document. Or the .STL file for your 3d printer, I bet you don't need to pay the same model twice in order to print it from 2 printers simultaneously.

You dont get to make that choice, NQ does......

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Of course NQ is the one making all the decisions when it comes to game features. But that doesn't mean we the players have to like them, especially when they are obvious efforts to time gate the play time in a subscription game that is severely lacking features.

 

And just like NQ get to decide when and how to implement features, we get to decide if we want to play a game with such features. And if enough people decide they don't want to play that game, whatever NQ decides will no longer be relevant.

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Personally, I don't see the point in schematics if NQ is planning on implementing power.

 

Power seems like a much more intuitive and realistic way to gate industry -- and one that would be easier for new players to understand and afford. As a design concept, schematics don't feel like they really fit -- it's a clumsy solution to the core problem. 

 

The point of alpha/beta isn't to have a balanced game. That would be an absurd goal that requires an extremely detailed plan -- game design discipline that most studios couldn't achieve, never mind NQ.

 

I don't think 0.23 was "horrible" -- but I do think it was a major waste of time that could have been better spent on feature development.

 

Schematics were a balance change, and balance changes don't really add anything to the game, they shuffle around the parts that already exist.

 

Why spend time balancing a game that isn't done? You'll need to revisit as more features roll out, regardless...I get that they promised "no wipes" -- that doesn't somehow make it more plausible to balance an alpha/beta as you go. 

 

NQ is really slow at dev -- it might be a different story if they were faster, but they aren't. They should have invested the time it took to develop 0.23 into finishing features rather than trying to balance the very incomplete features they already have.

 

That's why I actually agree with them ignoring the schematic price exploit -- they're slow enough as it is without distractions, their only goal should be finishing the game's core features so that the discussion of balance actually makes sense. 

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I love 0.23, it's the reason I came back into the game.  There are finally ways to make money that aren't mining - you can buy ores and resell industry items at profit.  It's just a small step, can't wait for more, but it's something - I have made a personal oath to never mine again and have been having a blast finding alternate ways to make money.

0.23 created an economy driven by investment, which is awesome.  If you're sitting on 1bil quanta, it's not doing anything - but if you buy the schems and ores and start producing warp beacons, you're averaging 6milq per day of profit

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1 hour ago, Moosegun said:

You dont get to make that choice, NQ does......

Ofc, I was only saying that imho it's a bad/lazy design choice. 

I mean, if they blindly picked a game among all the sandboxes/building games out there and shamelessly copied it we would have had a system a thousand times better, but hey, schematics (and bots) were probably the easiest and quickest way to solve their problems and they went for them.

Mind that schematics and bots are also currently the main source of damage to our economy, that says a lot (always imho).

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