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Busterguy

When will the space safe zone be removed?

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2 minutes ago, Deathwatch said:

Oh boy, look it a holier than thou, anyway, for a game to survive there has to be a risk behind doing things other than basic tasks, if I can do everything with impunity including building a full OvP fleet in the safezone and then randomely popping out and shooting people why wouldn't I just stay in the safezones there's no reason for me not to, then you just end up with giant snowballed PvP factions, and that is not gonna end well for everyone that wants to live a care bear life in a safezone, because as soon as they leave they'll be met with massive PvP fleets that are ready and willing to destroy your small hauler that you just wanted some ore on

Wrong, for a game to survive It needs subs to pay the bills, can the PvP’ers pay all the bills by themselves?

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There only is a sink if you want it.  There are alot of people who are totally not interested in PvP or agression. People who build community or anything at all.

The idea they should be pushed in PvP is a fast way to just get them to leave.

 If you really want a sink, add energy and make something a source to actually burn for that energy, not this fuel but something meaningfull.

Calling the need for destruction something A game needs is strange, It is very true that destruction does more on a world scale in economics then general peacefull trade, indeed it totally destroys regular trade.

The same we will have here, the more PvP we will have the less ecoomy by markets we will see. Who in their bright mind will be so stupid to move goods to a market through PvP open terain when they can just use discord to trade stuff and fly directly to the spot?

Who will build a large base or city or market when it can be bombed because someone needs a resource sink?

 

Why would here be a need anyway?

At the moment i am building 2 bases with massive material needs, i already used about 30k m3 voxel material, somewhere around 300 large windows and about 20 Large containers, dont forget the lights, elevators, doors, All mined and taken from the ground, placed on sanctuary so nobody can destroy t and still by pulling this out of the system its a virtual resource sink.

Does this help the economy? Hell no, i had to mine it all myself as the daily quanta is broken for me since day 1.  Was I at any risk? Nope, not a single second. Did i need PvP to get my stuff? Not really and due to network issues, inventory errors and other bugs i probably lost the same amount of materials as that i used.

 

So why is more PvP needed for economy? Maybe, just maybe, less bugs, less lag, a safe entry to markets, an abundance to materials, and actual stuff on the markets that people need might help will help get a decent economy.

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7 minutes ago, Iorail said:

Mentality is too big of a word for them, got it make it simple sometimes 😂😂😂

now the only argument is to complain about my spelling? 🤣

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Pvp really doesn't make much sense in the ingame lore. Humanity escapes a destroyed home planet and comes to a new solar system to rebuild society. Where does conflict and self destruction help with that? Keep it to VR, if anything.

 

Sociopathy and psychopathy are mental illnesses that should have been solved and completely removed from such a society.

 

As Charlie Chaplin in the Great Dictator said, we should try to help each other; not profit from misery and despair.

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4 hours ago, Busterguy said:

Hello, now people are getting more advanced in the game and I’m seeing more people trying to get into PVP. When will the safe zone be removed around Alioth, madis and thades. I presume this is only temporary as the only true safe zone, in the end, should be the sanc moon of course.

 

I hope it happens soon so there is more resource drain in the economy. otherwise people are just going to sit on stacks of materials and the economy will be pointless 

 

An alpha tester who wants to kill new players, raid their base and make them leave the server. LOL :)))))))

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21 minutes ago, Eleete said:

An alpha tester who wants to kill new players, raid their base and make them leave the server. LOL :)))))))

Only to purge them of heretical ways. They must praise the all father.

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I don't know about you but I don't want to spend 2-3 weeks building an at most medium transport only to be ganked by someone who only specs PvP ships.  Yay, so you spent a month logging into the game to get your free credits and adjust your unattended talent tree. That shouldn't be a free ticket to gank everyone who actually puts effort and time into building something, and you know, actually plays the game to build their stuff vice camping out and buying a market fighter...

 

Just saying. I'd be happy with a "New World" type PvP system where orgs can battle it out for control of planets during declared war periods. 

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Okay, a few things.  Any game without risk will become boring once you get past the challenge of building a bunch of interesting ships and a big factory.  Since DU has no NPCs to shoot you in the far reaches of space, it relies on players to make the risk.  Thankfully, there are a few of us that have happily stepped up and provided some risk in a few places.  As to PVP being a poor sink for resources, nothing could be further from the truth.  A PVP ship is a purpose built ship with no concessions to doing anything but filling it's combat role.  Slapping some guns on a cargo ship does not make it a PVP ship, it makes it an expensive cargo ship that can shoot things that don't move.  Building a fleet is an expensive endeavor, one that will only get more expensive as the meta progresses.  Supplying ammo and fuel to a fleet is also quite expensive, military engines in particular are quite thirsty.  It's also not trivial to haul all the juicy loot back to your base, especially when you get those transport ships that someone has been filling with days worth of T3 mining.

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This is rich. I love threads like these because someone at some point is gonna accuse us of being psychopaths and sociopaths.... You likely will get banned for that if you keep it up. They don't allow name calling here. 

 

Risk vs reward is the most honest and realistic resource sink there is if there is no NPCs or PVE. You guys call PVPers the minority... But why are some of you activating mutual defense treaties? And why are some of you complaining regarding removing safe zones if there are no pvpers out there? 

 

There are massive pvp orgs in this game.... We will fight each other. We want to fight each other... We plan on waging war on each other. But we are gimped at the moment. So because we are so limited we have to hunt the easy prey. Turn us loose and let us run... We will find each other and be less likely to be camping your slow boat routes. 

 

Or keep it the way things are and the moment you try to come out we will shoot your ships.... Interdiction is a planned feature as well... What happens then? 

 

You may have to work with other orgs.. in a team game.... Who would have thunk it. 

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praise the sun!
lolol

Seriously.
PVP will reach everywhere. Sooner or later, excluding the promised zones.

But whether it helps the economy or not is another matter.

And I'd like those who want pvp to stop justifying it as a useful mechanic to make the game work.

I find more honest people who tell me they want to blow up other people's ships because they find it funny than someone who insists with this nonsense that it will help the economy.

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6 minutes ago, Thor Wotansen said:

Okay, a few things.  Any game without risk will become boring once you get past the challenge of building a bunch of interesting ships and a big factory.  Since DU has no NPCs to shoot you in the far reaches of space, it relies on players to make the risk.  Thankfully, there are a few of us that have happily stepped up and provided some risk in a few places.  As to PVP being a poor sink for resources, nothing could be further from the truth.  A PVP ship is a purpose built ship with no concessions to doing anything but filling it's combat role.  Slapping some guns on a cargo ship does not make it a PVP ship, it makes it an expensive cargo ship that can shoot things that don't move.  Building a fleet is an expensive endeavor, one that will only get more expensive as the meta progresses.  Supplying ammo and fuel to a fleet is also quite expensive, military engines in particular are quite thirsty.  It's also not trivial to haul all the juicy loot back to your base, especially when you get those transport ships that someone has been filling with days worth of T3 mining.

Uhm.. you just keep a scrap in your inventory, repair said ship's core, "collect" your ship and stick it in your pocket, and fly back to your base in your new ship....

I don't see any "challenge" you speak of by ganking cargo ships and calling it "PvP". Might as well add NPCs since the challenge level will be the same or higher. PvP isn't needed at all in open space unless folks are compensating for something. The only challenging PvP is between two PvP ships and I doubt folks hitting cargo ships have anything around that will get them to attack another purpose built PvP ship.

 

Ergo my suggestion is for NQ to establish a "war" system for orgs to claim and tax planet markets and only allow PvP for those flagged mutually.

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3 hours ago, FryingDoom said:

Oh and elites entire economy IS player driven. Just its not forced PvP.

No it isnt, it is bot driven with a player overlay, Elite is a miss mash of several games loosely joined together in a sudo MMO that isnt really an MMO.  

 

2 hours ago, Busterguy said:

because this is a pvp game? the end goal of this game is blow shit up and fight each other over territory. Not hold hands planting flowers around your base 24/7

No it isnt a PvP game, sorry but you are 100% wrong there, it is a civilisation building MMO, a pillar of civilisation is war, which means it will be a part of the game, it WILL NOT be the main driving factor, NQ has been very clear about that and it shows in its development plan.

 

1 hour ago, Emptiness said:

No, the end goal of this game is to build a thriving civilization.

 

Pvpers are the emotionally disturbed and should be rooted out and exterminated with prejudice.

This is actually what I think SHOULD happen, it should be up to the community to protect itself from pirates, the issue as always though will be the solo players, they will refuse to play in larger groups and because of this will be very open to attack, they will cry, seen it in loads of games.

3 hours ago, Iorail said:

It doesn’t matter what the PvP’ers want or what the PvE’ers want, it all comes down to what generates the most money for the game so it can continue to exist. If the PvP’ers are getting bored because people are staying in the safe zone, fight each other, stop trying to force everyone to your play style. End of story. Now, just opening a PvP thread every few days is not going to change anything, could have posted in the other 2625 threads about this that already exist that sank to the bottom of the forums for lack of interest.

It actually shouldnt come down to what generates the most money, it should come down to the integrity of the developers to build the game they set out to build, without caving into pressure from either side.  If games where just designed to be 'popular' they would all look like fortnight, I LIKE niche games, I DONT like niche games that are turned into mainstream ones due to players forcing their playstyles on other, be that PvP or PvE.

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1 hour ago, Emptiness said:

Pvp really doesn't make much sense in the ingame lore. Humanity escapes a destroyed home planet and comes to a new solar system to rebuild society. Where does conflict and self destruction help with that? Keep it to VR, if anything.

 

Sociopathy and psychopathy are mental illnesses that should have been solved and completely removed from such a society.

 

As Charlie Chaplin in the Great Dictator said, we should try to help each other; not profit from misery and despair.

Complete rubbish, war and conflict are human nature sadly, man has ALWAYS sort conquest through use of arms.  YES a lot of people would want to settle in a civilised way but plenty would be happy to do it by force. It should be up to the civilised players to push the evil players from that society, NOT the devs to give them safe spaces to protect their pixels.

100% bet that the majority of players crying about pvp and safe zones are also solo players.  EVERY game I go to they do the same thing.  join and MMO, play solo (why do they join an MMO in the first place), complain that they can do everything large groups can, complain that they are getting 'zerged' even though they could easily be protected by playing in a bigger group.  They have no interesting in being part of 'civilisation' they want to be hermits but they also want the game changed to suit them.

 

]I was sincerely hoping that this game would finally give me what I was looking for, a true MMO sandbox where players police it themselves but sadly looks like it is going to be washed away in pixel tears and safe zones.

 

This has nothing to do with people being allowed to play 'how they want to play' it should be down to EVERYONE accepting the way the DEVS want you to play.  The game cant be made to suit everyone, so go with the devs vision or step aside.

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1 hour ago, Emptiness said:

Pvp really doesn't make much sense in the ingame lore. Humanity escapes a destroyed home planet and comes to a new solar system to rebuild society. Where does conflict and self destruction help with that? Keep it to VR, if anything.

 

Sociopathy and psychopathy are mental illnesses that should have been solved and completely removed from such a society.

 

As Charlie Chaplin in the Great Dictator said, we should try to help each other; not profit from misery and despair.

There is death and wars and murder in life. Do you really think that if a portion of humanity went to a new solar system, without any laws there wouldn't be people running around and killing other people? You should thank NQ that they have given you a safe zone.

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24 minutes ago, Leogradance said:

praise the sun!
lolol

Seriously.
PVP will reach everywhere. Sooner or later, excluding the promised zones.

But whether it helps the economy or not is another matter.

And I'd like those who want pvp to stop justifying it as a useful mechanic to make the game work.

I find more honest people who tell me they want to blow up other people's ships because they find it funny than someone who insists with this nonsense that it will help the economy.

I am an industrialist who NEVER instigates fights at all but I am 100% behind full open pvp.  I have a LOT at risk with this attitude, I have territories on 8 planets BUT I do strongly believe that open pvp with only limited safe areas (AS CLEARLY ADVERTISED) is the right solution.  I fully accepted the loses that would bring, because it also bring the risk to my endeavours.  Sorry for multiple posts but wanted to reply to everyone and the copy paste was doing my head in.

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No problem with PvP, and no problem with extending the zones, but to implement PvP as a sink hole is just not the way to go.

If we need something its a nice reason to actually have an economy or loads of materials and frankly, any PvP will only get better If there is an abundance of materials. Having everyone cheap ass on their materials as there aint much or the risk to loose them is to high will not help to get nice worthy PvP.

Good mats, good industry, good production, perfect ships and nice holes. No sinkholes, a game needing sinkholes to draw something out is badly organized and designed.

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10 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

No problem with PvP, and no problem with extending the zones, but to implement PvP as a sink hole is just not the way to go.

If we need something its a nice reason to actually have an economy or loads of materials and frankly, any PvP will only get better If there is an abundance of materials. Having everyone cheap ass on their materials as there aint much or the risk to loose them is to high will not help to get nice worthy PvP.

Good mats, good industry, good production, perfect ships and nice holes. No sinkholes, a game needing sinkholes to draw something out is badly organized and designed.

It needs sink holes to generate an economy for other members. If there is no demand or serious demand there is less need of supply... And you guys don't make money? 

 

This is like the most basics of economics. People don't want you to buy less.. they want you to buy more so they make more... Dafuq?

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Wow, this thread never had a chance.  

 

 

Forget space PVP, thats for gankers and griefers and nothing more.  I won't be happy until the FPS base attack portion of the game is in beta.

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3 hours ago, Emptiness said:

No, the end goal of this game is to build a thriving civilization.

 

Pvpers are the emotionally disturbed and should be rooted out and exterminated with prejudice.

Daphne?

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Who knows, maybe NQ will keep the inner triangle a safe zone. I don't really mind either way.

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1 hour ago, Moosegun said:


100% bet that the majority of players crying about pvp and safe zones are also solo players.  EVERY game I go to they do the same thing.  join and MMO, play solo (why do they join an MMO in the first place), complain that they can do everything large groups can, complain that they are getting 'zerged' even though they could easily be protected by playing in a bigger group.  They have no interesting in being part of 'civilisation' they want to be hermits but they also want the game changed to suit them.

That's exactly how it is. Mostly at least.
The point is, it's not wrong.
It is a voice in the choir, who wants to be heard. The same way you make yours heard and express your opinion.

It doesn't matter if you can't understand the reasons for playing solo in an MMO. Nobody can understand everything about everyone. What is important is that they recognized the existence of different points of view.
Which is what happens in an MMO, which is basically a social container.

And if you accept the risk of pvp and what it entails is your choice. That others may or may not share.
This does not automatically give you wrong or right.
You accept it.
Others don't.

Personally: this is a game. I'm here to have fun. If the pvp becomes insiscriminate and everywhere, I will move to the sanctuary moon and greetings. I'll dig there and probably get bored and drop the game.
Do you know why?
Because pvp in a sandbox MMO makes me shit in my hand. I'm honest.
It's not the pixels.
But the comparison. The sense of helplessness and abuse that I would suffer, the idea of being attacked while I'm doing something that has nothing to do with pvp.
I don't have to "be strong". It's a game. I have to have fun. If I don't enjoy it, I cry and quit.

This is what happens to non-pvpers.
I don't care if you understand it or not.

I care that you understand that if you don't understand or share a thing that isn't automatically wrong.

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9 minutes ago, Leogradance said:

That's exactly how it is. Mostly at least.
The point is, it's not wrong.
It is a voice in the choir, who wants to be heard. The same way you make yours heard and express your opinion.

It doesn't matter if you can't understand the reasons for playing solo in an MMO. Nobody can understand everything about everyone. What is important is that they recognized the existence of different points of view.
Which is what happens in an MMO, which is basically a social container.

And if you accept the risk of pvp and what it entails is your choice. That others may or may not share.
This does not automatically give you wrong or right.
You accept it.
Others don't.

Personally: this is a game. I'm here to have fun. If the pvp becomes insiscriminate and everywhere, I will move to the sanctuary moon and greetings. I'll dig there and probably get bored and drop the game.
Do you know why?
Because pvp in a sandbox MMO makes me shit in my hand. I'm honest.
It's not the pixels.
But the comparison. The sense of helplessness and abuse that I would suffer, the idea of being attacked while I'm doing something that has nothing to do with pvp.
I don't have to "be strong". It's a game. I have to have fun. If I don't enjoy it, I cry and quit.

This is what happens to non-pvpers.
I don't care if you understand it or not.

I care that you understand that if you don't understand or share a thing that isn't automatically wrong.

Great post but you have slightly missed my point, I am not interested in my opinion, I am interested in the DEVS sticking to THEIR opinion, which has been very open and honest from the start, that there will be limited safe spaces (sanc moon) and the rest will be self governed open pvp. 

I am interested in large player made governance, I am interesting in building a civilisation and civilisation comes with unified defence.  I have no issue with solo hermit players at all, I have an issue when they want to divert the game from the devs stated path.  If people do not want open pvp, why did they buy a game which open publicised it would be the case, I will tell you why, because they knew if they complained enough it would change....... and I can see it coming.  Solo hermit do nothing to contribute to civilisation, nothing to make the world bigger or better, they just offer soft targets when the fighting does start.

Please note that all of my opinion are solely based on NQ giving us all the tools we need to properly implement player made security / defence.  I STRONGLY believe that this includes some sort of robust offline protection, and generally strong defence.  NQ have also gone on record that they will strongly favour the defender AND that offence pvp will have to be planned to be successful.  Still interested to see who they are going to achieve this.

Did like the shitting in my hand comment lol

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5 minutes ago, Leogradance said:

That's exactly how it is. Mostly at least.
The point is, it's not wrong.
It is a voice in the choir, who wants to be heard. The same way you make yours heard and express your opinion.

It doesn't matter if you can't understand the reasons for playing solo in an MMO. Nobody can understand everything about everyone. What is important is that they recognized the existence of different points of view.
Which is what happens in an MMO, which is basically a social container.

And if you accept the risk of pvp and what it entails is your choice. That others may or may not share.
This does not automatically give you wrong or right.
You accept it.
Others don't.

Personally: this is a game. I'm here to have fun. If the pvp becomes insiscriminate and everywhere, I will move to the sanctuary moon and greetings. I'll dig there and probably get bored and drop the game.
Do you know why?
Because pvp in a sandbox MMO makes me shit in my hand. I'm honest.
It's not the pixels.
But the comparison. The sense of helplessness and abuse that I would suffer, the idea of being attacked while I'm doing something that has nothing to do with pvp.
I don't have to "be strong". It's a game. I have to have fun. If I don't enjoy it, I cry and quit.

This is what happens to non-pvpers.
I don't care if you understand it or not.

I care that you understand that if you don't understand or share a thing that isn't automatically wrong.

Then this game isnt for you. Same people cry over and over about being ganked in eve. I dont give a fucking shit what their reasons are, because they are wrong. Point blank. Because the DEVELOPERS of eve said high sec isnt safe. The DEVELOPERS of NQ said the majority of the universe will be open pvp. I don't go to carebear games and whine and complain why I can gank someone, instead I just go to a game that let's me (eve).  People will argue about money, saying a developer should do whatever brings in the most money but that is just absurd. They are trying to make a game, their game, and a somewhat unique one. 

 

Here is another thing, I'm more valued customer than the solo carebear. There is no denying it. A lot of my pvper friends in eve sub lots of alts with our credit cards, and purchase lots of Plex. Same will happen in DU. Some months me and a buddy would spend over 1k a month on eve. He subs 12 accounts with his CC, I do 6. And we buy plex packs. NQ already knows they if they go back on their promise of freedom and open world and player driven they will lose massive money, because at that point they are backing off on the original vision they sold us on, the reason we even backed the game.

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

Then this game isnt for you. Same people cry over and over about being ganked in eve. I dont give a fucking shit what their reasons are, because they are wrong. Point blank. Because the DEVELOPERS of eve said high sec isnt safe. The DEVELOPERS of NQ said the majority of the universe will be open pvp. I don't go to carebear games and whine and complain why I can gank someone, instead I just go to a game that let's me (eve).  People will argue about money, saying a developer should do whatever brings in the most money but that is just absurd. They are trying to make a game, their game, and a somewhat unique one. 

 

Here is another thing, I'm more valued customer than the solo carebear. There is no denying it. A lot of my pvper friends in eve sub lots of alts with our credit cards, and purchase lots of Plex. Same will happen in DU. Some months me and a buddy would spend over 1k a month on eve. He subs 12 accounts with his CC, I do 6. And we buy plex packs. NQ already knows they if they go back on their promise of freedom and open world and player driven they will lose massive money, because at that point they are backing off on the original vision they sold us on, the reason we even backed the game.

Great post although i dont agree with the last bit, I run four account currently, which I will almost certain sub all four, being a pvper doesnt give you the sole right to be a hardcore player.

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1 minute ago, Moosegun said:

Great post although i dont agree with the last bit, I run four account currently, which I will almost certain sub all four, being a pvper doesnt give you the sole right to be a hardcore player.

Maybe the phrasing is wrong, but more valued because there is open world pvp.  And this may be anecdotal, but I've known lots of highsec carebears who run 4+ accounts. But sub with plex. Where does that plex come from? Me and people like me. From 10 years playing eve, generally speaking, I've noticed the person that is more into pvp buys more plex packs. Which = more money.

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