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about the tile ownership

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so, since you need to hand craft ownership devices to control a single tile, how the heck can you ever control a whole planet? are you supposed to hand craft and place into every hexagon a unique territory control unit?

i cant see that working out with a space game that has hundreds of planets.

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"How the heck can you ever control an entire planet", you ask? With tons and tons of work and teamwork. Which is how it should be. One man cannot control a whole planet; 10, or 100 people cannot control a whole planet. You would need a huge group and team effort to do so, which I personally feel is exactly how it should be, and I'm sure many others would agree.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by the second point. You only need one territory unit to control that section of territory, so with tons of planets it gives the opportunity potentially for that lone wolf to own and control their own little section of the universe. After all, the objective of the game isn't to control land, this isn't the middle ages.

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DU isn't supposed to have "hundreds" of planets, it's supposed to have potentially millions.... Anyways...

 

I imagine that it wouldn't be the entire planet you need claim units on, so much as a large enough (%70 - %90?) share of the planet. 

 

Taking "ownership" of a planet should not be an easy task by any stretch of the imagination, it's literally a planet load of resources, there should be an incredible amount of investment necessary to take on such a feat. That doesn't even begin to touch on the investment in defense resources necessary to do it. 

 

It's worth noting how many territories were displayed on Alioth alone from the May Dev Diary :

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It should never be something that one person or a small group of players can take on by themselves in any reasonable timeframe. I mean sure if you spend months or years amassing thousands of claim units, then maybe you can find an untouched planet and spend countless hours placing all of the claims yourself while at the same time hoping nobody else stumbles onto the planet.

 

Otherwise, it's likely that only extremely large and well-funded organizations or alliances will be able to pull off something like that.

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I'd go as far as to say even large groups should have trouble owning a planet, rather they'd be forced to form alliances with other groups in order to take control of a planet for a common goal.

 

Precisely how I think it should be, it shouldn't be easy to completely control a planet.  Creates a much more dynamic universe, especially if those groups begin to have conflict :P

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It's worth noting how many territories were displayed on Alioth alone from the May Dev Diary :

 

 

 

New Dev-diary!? Going to DU youtube page now.

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ATMLVE I just love your comment about middle ages, and it is just that.

 

I don't see benefit on owning a planet by little groups when they are not even be capable to defend it (by its size mainly). Because if you say the benefit is to have right over the terrain exploitation it have no sense when the group interested in said exploitation can just remove you from the planet.

 

I hope it will works like @Hades said.

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so, since you need to hand craft ownership devices to control a single tile, how the heck can you ever control a whole planet? are you supposed to hand craft and place into every hexagon a unique territory control unit?

i cant see that working out with a space game that has hundreds of planets.

In addition to what the others said: yes, it shouldn't be an easy grab and go. You need dedicated members for such a task. It's a social mmo after all

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First off, now that you point out that info panel Yama, that is a huge number of territories! 50,000!? That's huge! I mean, I guess the numbers were already there to realize it'd be that big, but it really hits hard seeing it listed there. 

 

Secondly, I don't thing you need to control a lot of territories on a planet to control it. I think it is more about the control you can exercise over it. If you can shoot down anyone else who tries to set up on the planet, you have control of it. Likewise, you could control 90% of the territories but if you can't control what people do on it, that planet is not yours. Planet ownership seems like it is more of an informal thing. You might have TUs around your cities on the planet and maybe some key facilities or locations, but you don't need every tile covered. 

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Basically its biggest army diplomacy first, formal territory units second?

 

Of course there is an alternative, at least when stargates come to the game. If you find a star system and build the only stargate that leads to that system, it doesn't really matter if you build territory units if you can control the travel through the stargate and have enough power to stop anyone coming the old fashioned way and building a second stargate. 

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First off, now that you point out that info panel Yama, that is a huge number of territories! 50,000!? That's huge! I mean, I guess the numbers were already there to realize it'd be that big, but it really hits hard seeing it listed there. 

 

Secondly, I don't thing you need to control a lot of territories on a planet to control it. I think it is more about the control you can exercise over it. If you can shoot down anyone else who tries to set up on the planet, you have control of it. Likewise, you could control 90% of the territories but if you can't control what people do on it, that planet is not yours. Planet ownership seems like it is more of an informal thing. You might have TUs around your cities on the planet and maybe some key facilities or locations, but you don't need every tile covered. 

 

I agree, its not the amount of territory control units you have placed but how you excercise the control on a planet or a certain amount of land mass, you can as Void said for all accounts have TU's all over the planet but not being able to control the area, then those TU's are no use at all, obviously the application of TU's also pertains to permission rights as well so its not like they are not necessary but controlling a whole planet is not needed according to me, unless ofcourse setting up shields to make them semi-safe zones require one to place a territory unit before hand.

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Basically its biggest army diplomacy first, formal territory units second?

 

Of course there is an alternative, at least when stargates come to the game. If you find a star system and build the only stargate that leads to that system, it doesn't really matter if you build territory units if you can control the travel through the stargate and have enough power to stop anyone coming the old fashioned way and building a second stargate. 

 

That is definitely a viable strategy too. Though there may be ways around it, so people would probably not want to rely solely on that for security and control. 

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lol, Lights, centuries of cryosleep, walks out of novark for the first time, its night...looks up, sees stars, wow look what i just discovered, +900 star exploration points for lights.

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As we can see there are more than 50.000 TU on Alioth. But how many of those are actually ocean?

We can perhaps get into a situation, where a planet is actually controlled largely by an alliance, but still only 40% of the planet is owned by them, because ocean TU's might not bring profit. That means even owned planets (those with oceans) could have international waters for example.

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yes but so far, oceans are just voxels., so you could just build on top of them, or even if you can go through them you can make platforms and clain the land

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yes but so far, oceans are just voxels., so you could just build on top of them, or even if you can go through them you can make platforms and clain the land

But can you mine for ressources on ocean territory?

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But can you mine for ressources on ocean territory?

possibly, depends if you can go through the voxels or not. i would say gathering voxels shouldnt delete them from the map though. otherwise you would see unrealistic "holes" in the ocean

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Maybe we should also ask first if it makes any sense to own an entire planet.

If the numbers are accurate and Allioth really has 50,862 hexagonal tiles, we can calculate the rough surface area of the planet. 
NQ stated that hexagonal tiles are 1km in diameter. With the formula for a hexagon's surface area A = 3/2 * √3 * a² , we can calculate that each hexagon has a surface area of roughly 0.65 km².

With 50,862 * 0.65 km², we get 33060 km². Let see, a Battlefield map is usually around 2km², Planetside's largest map is 64km² and Arma 3 has a map with 270km². You can fill the small Battlefield maps with lots of junk pretty well. When playing Planetside, you'll notice that there are vast, empty landstrips between the single stations. And Arma has whole regions of empty nothingness between many small settlements and bases. 
Let's say a bigger org in the future of around 1 thousand players manages to claim just half of the planet, since there's also a lot of water on Allioth. What would they do with 16500km² of territory? That is still too much for a thousand players to properly populate, so you either mine all the resources in a matter of months or you try build an infrastructure for a few dozen settlements or cities, again with landstrips of nothingsness in between them.

So, if the calculations are right, what would you do with a whole planet? Own it, invest resources into the TUs just to say you can own the planet but leave it uninhabitet to the largest portion?

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That is definitely a viable strategy too. Though there may be ways around it, so people would probably not want to rely solely on that for security and control. 

 

I assume you mean controlling only stargate, true, that way I noted one would also need enough (military) power to blow up anyone who tries to get around that. 

 

That goes back to my comment long time ago in how are you going to play the game thread far far away. I want org to control a system by monopolizing its stargate and then strip-mine the place to make Executor super star destroyers. Those should also help to keep the control. 

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not just that, but after you get the resources from  certain tile, that tile is basically useless. most tiles wont usually serve strategic purposes, as only the circumference and center tiles will usually be the strategic points of a large territory claim. not including infrastructure such as factories etc, but lets say you DO have all these factories and garages etc, you would have to have enough resources to make an infrastructure in each tile that has a specific, and beneficial purpose, but if every tile is mined, and every tile needs infrastructure, that means you would have to use the tiles own resources to create the infrastructure, and hope against hope, that you have enough after all of this to create ships, and disposable tools and resources etc, such as fuel.   

"But Light's" we could just bring in resources from other planets, and pay people to give us resources" well those two are problems, 

First of all, if you take a planets resources to support another planet, THAT planet then becomes a waste too, and a useless claim of land that takes massive resources to maintain the claim in the first place.

Second, to get resources you will have to exchange currency, which usually in economics is very firmly tied in with the exchange of resources in the first place, so you would just have to trade resources of equal value, which means you are now depleting your own land of resources, for less resources, even though they are more valuable, and in many cases your resources will be destroyed in scenarios such as your ships being destroyed. You could sell the land, but who would wish to buy land in a planet thats completely controlled by another faction? you would be surrounded by them and basically have to give in to their demands for them to not just conquer you and put the land back up for sale.

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Then again, does the claim have to be permanent? To my understanding TU or some related elements give certain degree of protection, so they could be really helpful even when you only use tile to mine. When the resource vein runs out just pick up your TU and take it somewhere else.  By taking elements with you and recycling the resources, the cost of sequential claims should stay reasonable/low. 

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Regarding planetary control, i think it's only necessary on a somewhat galactic scale if you want/need to control a region of space.  However, for our purposes, I beleive we're only interested in controlling resources or certain areas of interest on a planet. 

 

Question I have about tile ownership is just how much resource is there be in a tile?  Doesn't a TU controlled tile equal 1km area, which is then broken down into smaller areas?  Is there a mix of resources in those smaller areas?  How long will it take to mine everything out of the area?  If its mined out in a matter of weeks then the planet won't last long if you have a few thousand people on it, all mining away.  Will the resources respawn at some time?  Can you remove your own TU voluntarily to go mine a new uncontrolled tile?  As for those water tiles, can you build floating platforms?  Can the resources underwater be mined?  Will there be a need or a way to mine the atmosphere for resources like oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, whatever?  If not, then water tiles are a waste of tile space.  If resources are going to be depleted quickly then space exploration will be a main priority if only to find more resources.

 

Sorry for all the questions...been away for awhile and all these questions just popped into my head.  :blink:

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Regarding planetary control, i think it's only necessary on a somewhat galactic scale if you want/need to control a region of space.  However, for our purposes, I beleive we're only interested in controlling resources or certain areas of interest on a planet. 

 

Question I have about tile ownership is just how much resource is there be in a tile?  Doesn't a TU controlled tile equal 1km area, which is then broken down into smaller areas?  Is there a mix of resources in those smaller areas?  How long will it take to mine everything out of the area?  If its mined out in a matter of weeks then the planet won't last long if you have a few thousand people on it, all mining away.  Will the resources respawn at some time?  Can you remove your own TU voluntarily to go mine a new uncontrolled tile?  As for those water tiles, can you build floating platforms?  Can the resources underwater be mined?  Will there be a need or a way to mine the atmosphere for resources like oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, whatever?  If not, then water tiles are a waste of tile space.  If resources are going to be depleted quickly then space exploration will be a main priority if only to find more resources.

 

Sorry for all the questions...been away for awhile and all these questions just popped into my head.  :blink:

we literalyl just asked all those questions above XD (except for "mining" the atmosphere XD

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