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extremely flawed unthought out mining system that is bad now and extremely bad for the long run.


Snow
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Mining flowers with limited quantities people mass scan to sell and ore grief and can easily be grieffed

mining flowers people can claim the center of and pay 500k every 3 weeks to hold onto to further minimize access of flowers to other orgs. 

pvp players/pirate types can will/have done things like this. and people as they build up will build into abusing such a system

we need a new mining system, at bare minimum they need to get rid of the flower system raise the average ore rate and lower rarity of ores

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Pretty much all the T2 has already been claimed. 
 

many newbies will only get dregs and the asteroid system is obviously not working. You know you have a problem when there are less asteroids than major orgs. 
 

It is clear that NQ have created a game that will create a first tier of unmovable, impenetrable incumbents and leave nothing for the second tier.  Kinda like their ore. 
 

now if they brought in a planet where the ores shifted gradually over time that would be far more viable long term than the current system but totally unrealistic…
 

As it is, all the planets are basically pwned less than a month after the game went life. 


knowing that they can never find anything other than T1 again means many miner type players have left. 
 

Imagine creating an MMO where nearly all the key central assets are permanently locked down within 30 days without a chance to ever challenge them. 

 

thades is dotted with hexes that have a single TU and a single mining node. 
 

zero development, zero building, zero “sivileyezashun”. 
 

“but more planets” I hear some say…  sure another couple of week’s “gameplay” and those planets too will be devoid of anything but T1. 
 

to end my rant, or as the younguns like to say, TLDR:

 

The game is a paradox. It feels simultaneously deserted yet at the same time, the logistics of this game is only suited to  support triple digit player numbers maximum and is flawed at such a fundamental level that NQ will need to pull something spectacular out of their collective… hats … in order for this game to last past the year in any meaningful way. 

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8 hours ago, Jinxed said:

The game is a paradox. It feels simultaneously deserted yet at the same time, the logistics of this game is only suited to  support triple digit player numbers maximum and is flawed at such a fundamental level that NQ will need to pull something spectacular out of their collective… hats … in order for this game to last past the year in any meaningful way. 


I keep waiting to wake up to the news that NQ is out of money and is shutting down...

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1 hour ago, fusion94 said:


I keep waiting to wake up to the news that NQ is out of money and is shutting down...

I hope you mean you dread the day you wake to that news.  If you mean it as you are looking forward to the day that new comes I have to wonder why you are here in the first place.

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58 minutes ago, Wyndle said:

I hope you mean you dread the day you wake to that news.  If you mean it as you are looking forward to the day that new comes I have to wonder why you are here in the first place.

Something like hope and bitterniss? ^^

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I wasn't aware ore griefing was a thing, although it does sound like fun!  Are you sure they really are griefing though rather than wanting to sell that tile to someone (which is valid gameplay not griefing IMO)?  Did you contact them and try to buy it?

 

Even if the flowers are blocked, though, you still have all the calibration ore so I think as a tactic trying to block orgs from getting ore this way won't work.

 

I do agree with the comment above about having no way to challenge a claim though.  The game really needs territory warfare so if someone does 'ore grief' you then you have something you can do about it.

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46 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

The game really needs territory warfare

While this statement is true, it will not change the situation in the Safe Zone, where people will start out. Forcing people into the PvP zone in order to make prospecting "viable" is probably not a great way to encourage population growth.

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17 minutes ago, Kezzle said:

While this statement is true, it will not change the situation in the Safe Zone, where people will start out. Forcing people into the PvP zone in order to make prospecting "viable" is probably not a great way to encourage population growth.

There shouldn't be any good tiles in the safezone.

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Just now, Zeddrick said:

There shouldn't be any good tiles in the safezone.

OK, so there should and I'm trolling a bit here.  But IMO there should be limits to what's available in the safe areas of the game.  If you put a large amount of really good territory in the safe area people can claim it and keep it forever.  And nobody can ever take it from them.  For me that's a huge advantage for people just because they started the game first.

 

Really the vast majority of tiles should be contestable in some way to prevent people from sitting on them forever.  Perhaps not PvP, but then there needs to be another way for me to contest your tile.  Perhaps I can force a tax auction for it or something?

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3 hours ago, Wyndle said:

I hope you mean you dread the day you wake to that news.  If you mean it as you are looking forward to the day that new comes I have to wonder why you are here in the first place.

yes i'm dreading it but i'm also expecting it to happen...

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1 hour ago, Kezzle said:

While this statement is true, it will not change the situation in the Safe Zone, where people will start out. Forcing people into the PvP zone in order to make prospecting "viable" is probably not a great way to encourage population growth.

 

"Safe zone" was supposed to be the 20km Perimeter around the Arkship ... and that's it. That was in the Kickstarter time, which was logical, as in "if you go out into the wilderness you are no more protected" thing ...
Then everything got dumbed down, stripped, softened, features removed, and what we left is this "childs play" sandbox with no trace of original KS pillars left ... just a barren, dumb universe.

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6 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

OK, so there should and I'm trolling a bit here.  But IMO there should be limits to what's available in the safe areas of the game.  If you put a large amount of really good territory in the safe area people can claim it and keep it forever.  And nobody can ever take it from them.  For me that's a huge advantage for people just because they started the game first.

 

Really the vast majority of tiles should be contestable in some way to prevent people from sitting on them forever.  Perhaps not PvP, but then there needs to be another way for me to contest your tile.  Perhaps I can force a tax auction for it or something?

It could be done with a rent system, not saying it should, but it could. Again such a system is in place in EvE for office rent in stations, if the demand is high, rent rises, if people start abandoning the offices, prices drop.

In here you could have the base cost be 500k as it is for territory units, but if I fancy your plot I can offer to rent it at a higher price,  leaving the ball in your court, to offer more, ore give it up.

And to prevent too much abuse, you can only challenge a tile if it has a free tile adjacent to it, and also set a system in place so the challenge of a plot costs something, so you don't get challenge  griefing  and maybe a portion of the collected funds for a bidding war goes to the winner of the bidding.

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These auction games work in a large healthy economy but in the case of DU where there is extremely limited resources and only a tiny handful of sizable orgs, the richer players win. Ie. the players sitting on the tiles of T2 and the richest players (orgs) could eventually force all the other players off their own T2. 
 

im not a game designer, I have no idea how NQ can fix the conundrum they’ve found themselves in. 
 

 

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Well a game did this pretty well almost 20 years ago, infact 2 come in mind, first swg. Every so often all ore spots on planets shifted, so ppl had to rescan and move harvesters, maybe not perfect, a bit of tedious buissy work but it shook things up when the rich kids sat on the best spawn and could pay maintenance for years.

Secondly there's a little space game that clearly is an inspiration to DU where mining is not a problem, loads and loads of ore to mine, its the PLAYER driven economy that regulates if ppl bother mining, too much mining prices go down, not enough mining, prices increase.

I don't think there's a stand alone fix for each broken system in DU, it's a complete new vision to how things should work together, and then implementing them that's needed, probably too late for that after 2 launches, maybe should have got the game working and ready in beta, and THEN launch it, but who knows.

What was it Tod Howard said about launching unfinished products? Maybe nq were listening.

Edited by ZeeckZero
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9 hours ago, Jinxed said:

 

im not a game designer, I have no idea how NQ can fix the conundrum they’ve found themselves in. 
 

 

 

Well it might have helped if they actually listened to comments people already were throwing at them since alpha, but that seems to be an issue.

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It could be pretty simple if they would have gone with a system like SE has but it had to be a hard system and it had to be server stress friendly. 

Now we have a whole planet only building stuff with t1 materials.

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Shifting resources on tiles makes a lot of sense and it will also keeps the exploration aspect alive and making money off it. I do suspect that the TS will become obsolete.

 

As mentioned in another post there will be a similar situation like Eve moon mining where it was captured by big alliances basically forever.

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16 minutes ago, GallopingTortoise said:

Shifting resources on tiles makes a lot of sense and it will also keeps the exploration aspect alive and making money off it. I do suspect that the TS will become obsolete.

 

As mentioned in another post there will be a similar situation like Eve moon mining where it was captured by big alliances basically forever.

Except that having them static makes asteroid mining more important and a greater generator of content as well as the current system gives a bonus to those who have been here the longest from the wipe. 

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On 10/26/2022 at 10:38 AM, Snow said:

Mining flowers with limited quantities people mass scan to sell and ore grief and can easily be grieffed

mining flowers people can claim the center of and pay 500k every 3 weeks to hold onto to further minimize access of flowers to other orgs. 

pvp players/pirate types can will/have done things like this. and people as they build up will build into abusing such a system

we need a new mining system, at bare minimum they need to get rid of the flower system raise the average ore rate and lower rarity of ores

You fell into the trap we all fell into in beta.  This is a corporation game.  They don't sell it like that because corporations need mining drones.  You either join and org and be their drone or you drone for all the orgs.  It is by design.  YOU are playing wrong, not the corporations.  What happens next is an exodus of players. 

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I see that  the goals i set for myself to make this game fun are not possible. i dont like pvp so mining, building ect are goals that will keep me around. but when the ability to even find some t-2 or t-3 ore on this huge planet Alioth is already gone when i havent even finished my tri scanning ship.? i will try and find a way to enjoy game play but without changes to mining so we all have a chance to find a good mining spot i will lose interest.  The decision to only place a few large ore flowers of rare ore. is going to lead to only a few subscriptions for NQ. cant you see people need a goal? but if you force people to only play one way its not a sandbox. i played EVE since beta and even though they put rare ore behind pvp they still made it possible for the rest of us (the majority) to be able to have access with other methods, random spauns ect.

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Most of the territories that i claimed with T2 on them, have empty tiles nearby that i'm sure also have some T2 on them.  They might not be the highest yield, but it's still there, waiting to be claimed.

 

The two territories with Limestone that i claimed on Alioth, i found just by looking at the map until a found a territory with Limestone in the name, and i just went and grabbed two adjacent tiles.

 

If you're only scanning in totally unclaimed areas, only looking for the undiscovered T2 fields, so you can get the highest yield, that's going to be a lot harder to find.

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