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If Talent Points are wiped would NQ compensate us with DAC?


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I've pretty much stated that if NQ wipes Talent Points (TPs) then I'm gone as a paying customer. But I might be persuaded to stay if NQ would compensate us paying customers with DACs equal to our paid subscription time during Beta. I would still feel that everything during beta was pretty much for nothing (and what has happened before might very well happen again), but I would not feel as if I was bend over and taken by a lamppost... ūüėČ The DACs would give us the option to use that paid for subscription time as we please, either sell it in game for quanta or start multiple characters for the relaunch.

 

My questions:

1.) Would that be an acceptable compromise for you, the player?

2.) Would you stay with such a compromise after wipe/relaunch?

3.) Would NQ handing out DAC like that be realistic, as that's pretty much game time they are paying for twice.*

 

*On the other hand they did destroy the first time they charged for it (beta) with a wipe.

 

Note: This isn't so much a discussion about a wipe, how to wipe, when or if. But about possible compensation if a complete wipe occurs.

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NQ needs every cent they can get, they will not "refund" time spent with DAC if they wipe.

 

There is really only two sensible options.

  • No Wipe
  • Wipe with talen points and core BPs retained

 

While each has their pros and cons sure, if you apply some logic (I know this is hard to do with NQ), you can only find one possible outcome.

  1. It just would not make any sense for NQ to need 6+ months to make up their mind about a wipe being done or not. In fact, I am pretty sure it was ALWAYS the inent to wipe at launch/release. Their discussion wil lbe about how and when, not about if.
  2. If NQ had made the choice to not wipe, there is absolutely no reason I can think of they would not have announced this already, hence I must exclude that option and so I end up with the wipe again.
  3. As NQ has no way to compensate customers who subscribed over the last two years, they really only have the option to refund talent points to the pool as these reasonably represent the value these subscriptions have.
  4. Core blueprints have always been a commitment to be retained and they should 

 

And so, the only logical and IMO entirely reasonable assumption/expectation here is that NQ will do a wipe with core blueprints retained and talent points retruned to the pool

 

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Where is the source of the core blueprint commitment? What is different to the statements at the beginning of beta "we want to avoid wipes, its the last blablabla option"? 

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14 minutes ago, merihim said:

Where is the source of the core blueprint commitment? What is different to the statements at the beginning of beta "we want to avoid wipes, its the last blablabla option"? 

In just about any discussion on the wipe two things have been clear:

No more full/global wipes like before beta start, unless absolutely needed. This wipe is not that so it does not apply here.

Whatever we do, you will not loose your constructs in that you will retain blueprints. This does apply

 

The blueprint commitment goes back as far as early pre-alpha

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You're right, that's absolut. 
I'll just trust you on the source, I think I remember reading that once. 

Then I also have to retract my statement that it would be unfair not to wipe the core BPS. Because then it was clear from the start that there was a residual risk of loss for everything except for the core BPs. 

Thanks for clarification

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Honestly I would stay regardless of compensation. My time spent in DU is an experience and I don't mind reliving it again especially now that we have so many new avenues for progression. With that said, I do sympathize with players who feel differently about it and want to maintain some of their hard earned progress. However, if talents need to be reset, compensation using DACs is pushing it as this essentially boils down to NQ issuing every single beta player a partial refund. To be clear, any expectation of a 1:1 ratio of playtime compensated with DAC is completely unrealistic. DU is much more than a talent point simulator and if you are one of those players who subscribed, queued up talents, but never went past the tutorial then you seriously missed out regardless of whether you get to keep those talent points.

 

With that said, I am one of the early backers and thus was not required to pay the monthly subscription. Perhaps that invalidates my opinion on this matter? Either way, I am quite interested to see how others feel about this, hopefully we can stay on topic.

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36 minutes ago, kulkija said:

How about Beta keys. Will they keep their talent points.

Those talent points are not related to subs.

They are. Someone paid for their kick starter and got beta keys so NQ has been paid for them. If NQ treats beta accounts differently than any other in terms of talent points there will be a lot of (even more) upset people.

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1 hour ago, Yoarii said:

They are. Someone paid for their kick starter and got beta keys so NQ has been paid for them. If NQ treats beta accounts differently than any other in terms of talent points there will be a lot of (even more) upset people.

There are two types of beta key:

- The ones you paid for via KS.

- The ones that NQ gave away to every streamer that was willing to look at it and other promotions. My main got even beta-keyed last year due to support trying to fix and issue they couldn't fix with regular accounting...

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I don't see why in case of wipe you should keep your talent points.
I don't see how that is justified any more than a reserve of quanta or ore.

You paid for access to a game, not to store talent points.

If you chose to pay not to play and only accumulate talent points. It was your risk taking.

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13 minutes ago, Knight-Sevy said:

I don't see why in case of wipe you should keep your talent points.

 

Your character accrues talent points because you paid a subscription fee on your account. once you stop paying, the talent points stop coming. They are directly linked to the account having an active subscription and so represent the time you paid for in game.

 

When the wipe happens, those talent points are, in fact, what you paid for and so an expectation of these points being returned to you is fair.

 

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In before somebody says: restarting a game is the most fun aspect, I don't get it seems you guy just don't wanna play, seeing a ticker do 90 ticks a minute is the greatest gameplay experience I ever had. It can only be topped by watching a ticker do 90 ticks a minute inside the platonic ideal of absolute and eternal fairness.

 

 

You guys just dont want nobody to reach lvl 5 before NQ goes bankrupt.

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They wouldn't compensate you with DAC. 

 

I think it would be fair for them to compensate you with free play time, but not via DAC because in theory the more DAC there are in the wild, the less value they have...so if they do hand out more DACs, they'll probably anger backers that spend hundreds or thousands to have a pile of DACs on launch (although I can't imagine most backers are all that happy, anyway). 

 

At a certain point you just have to step away -- sunk cost fallacy is a real pain, but does anyone really believe DU will ever actually launch the features discussed in the latest post?

 

I mean actually develop the features, not implement an MVP and call it a day as they've done so many times before. 

 

Nothing has changed in how they approach the game's design or development in the last few years, I don't see any reason to believe release will change anything. 

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6 hours ago, blazemonger said:

And so, the only logical and IMO entirely reasonable assumption/expectation here is that NQ will do a wipe with core blueprints retained and talent points retruned to the pool

 

 

I never considered that they might wipe talent points until yesterday.

 

But you've pointed out so many times that if they have good news, there's no reason not to share it.  The only reason to remain tight lipped is if they have bad news.

 

Why would they specifically mention that they won't be wiping core BPs, but not mention talent points?  Seems like an easy opportunity to gain a little good faith from the player base.

 

 

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My trust in NQ is at an all time low, so nothing would surprise me any longer.

I can already see the youtube video thumbnails clearly .. "Dual Universe how could you!!", "How Dual Universe stole from players!" and so on..

So maybe NQ/DU will finally get the mass attention they always wanted, just not the right kind.

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Lets not speculate to hard here. I agree that keeping talents would be the ideal outcome provided of course that it does not substantially conflict with the overall progression curve, experience, or appeal for new players and also does not pose any significant technical limitations. Its really up to NQ to figure out how to assess all of that extra stuff and then justify their decision. I think the idea behind this thread is to figure out how player's perceive talent points and what kind of importance/worth they attribute to it. This kind of player insight is interesting and could prove useful regardless of whether or not talents get reset. 

  • Are their any other forms of compensation that you could equate to talent points?¬†(ie: cosmetics, quanta, elements)
  • How many talent points do think are required to be able to effectively take part in your given profession?
  • If you are an org leader do talent points play any role in the initial recruitment process?
  • For pvpers, does/should a skilled new player with a low talent count stand a chance against an¬†unskilled¬†veteran with high talent count?
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Just adding my opinion...

 

Talent points are the only thing we cannot rebuild or otherwise regain through playing the game, other than waiting for another two years to get back where we are today. If nothing else persists, talent points must.

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I think dev's initially did the best they could to deliver the game they promised. As soon as they needed more money to continue, private investors punked us in hopes of profit.

Instead now EVERYONE is screwed.

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AKA there are many possible outcomes, only one will win, and most of us will be unhappy about it.

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9 hours ago, Rokkur said:

I think dev's initially did the best they could to deliver the game they promised.

Maybe their best wasn't good enough? Don't get me wrong, I liked what I saw at the start of beta, that's why I started DU. But what I'm hearing now, the amount of cheating that occurred that the 'devs' didn't touch at all, besides eventually fixing the bug that made it possible, but not rolling back the results is mind boggling. On the other hand, the devs could individually have delivered topnotch work, but a game is something greater then it's component parts and if you mismanage that, you'll get a mess. No direction/leadership is an issue, and if the internal wipe or no wipe discussion is still going after 2+ months, they are running a democracy instead of a company...

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I have to say that DAC compensation would be something that I would be happy with in exchange for a wipe (and it might even get me playing again after the wipe to see if I still want to), but I don't think that they could compensate in large enough volumes for this to be viable.  I have a couple of characters which were actively training and playing since beta day 1.  If someone has a 1 year old character, I think I should get something more than they do and that means they'd need to give me a significant amount of DAC.  Assuming everyone thinks that getting a 1:1 ratio of time played:dacs is silly, say you got 1 DAC for every 4 months or so of playing time.  I'd be getting 6 months of DAC for each of my accounts, which is great!  I'd be able to play for 6 months without paying any subs, and that's what I would do.

 

But I think the main reason for finally releasing is to generate more revenue for NQ by turning beta players into subscription players.  If loads of the subscription players have 6 months for free then that's not going to work very well for NQ.

 

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21 hours ago, blazemonger said:

 

Your character accrues talent points because you paid a subscription fee on your account. once you stop paying, the talent points stop coming. They are directly linked to the account having an active subscription and so represent the time you paid for in game.

 

When the wipe happens, those talent points are, in fact, what you paid for and so an expectation of these points being returned to you is fair.

 

 

When you play the game your character accumulates ore and quanta by carrying out several activities because you have paid a subscription fee on your account to play. once you stop paying, the ores and quanta no longer arrive because you have stopped playing. They are directly linked to the account with an active subscription and therefore represent the time you have paid in-game.
 

When the clearing occurs, those quanta and ore are, in fact, what you paid for and so it is fair to expect that those quanta and ore will be returned to you.

Easy.

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