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DEVBLOG: PANACEA 'REMEDIES" ON THE WAY - Discussion thread


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1 hour ago, Gottchar said:

I like the changes, but was also hoping that the calibration loss over time could be reduced, while also reducing the gain rate for charges.  So that user have the same amount of units with the same output, but can (and have to) calibrate less often.

 

Calibration grace 48 > 72 hours

 

Done.

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3 minutes ago, Tional said:

 

Calibration grace 48 > 72 hours

 

Done.

Missed the part about gain rate. Gottchar's idea was to have the same number of miners with less frequent calibrations, this update will instead encourage the placement of additional MU.

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One of the big problems at the moment, IMO, is that autominers are generating too much ore which is causing the markets to crash due to oversupply.  Already there are T3 ores selling for less than T2 and some of the T2 prices are getting close to the T1 prices.  These changes will effectively give everyone the ability to run 30% more mining units (because of the 48->72 hour thing) and will make it much easier to run more units at high efficiency by removing the requirement to use charges every day.  Isn't this going to lead to even more ore on the market, producing even more downward pressure on prices? 

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27 minutes ago, Taelessael said:

Missed the part about gain rate. Gottchar's idea was to have the same number of miners with less frequent calibrations, this update will instead encourage the placement of additional MU.

 

"So that user have the same amount of units with the same output, but can (and have to) calibrate less often."

 

That part was included already. You can ignore them for 3 days (72 hours) instead of 2 days (48 hours) at 100%, then recharge in VR 2 days after that. So, same number of units, with the same output, and can (and have to) calibrate less often.

 

If you choose to place more MUs, that's your choice. And the choice that will be made by many.

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

One of the big problems at the moment, IMO, is that autominers are generating too much ore which is causing the markets to crash due to oversupply.  Already there are T3 ores selling for less than T2 and some of the T2 prices are getting close to the T1 prices.  These changes will effectively give everyone the ability to run 30% more mining units (because of the 48->72 hour thing) and will make it much easier to run more units at high efficiency by removing the requirement to use charges every day.  Isn't this going to lead to even more ore on the market, producing even more downward pressure on prices? 

This

 

Need more incentives to PVP.  Random shipwrecks and non-valuable ore (due to ore being too cheap) on asteroids won't be enough. Making the ore on asteroids in PVP space both unique (not on any planet) and needed (in most recipes) would do it. Only one unique type would be sufficient.

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Its good to see the QoL improvements for MUs and giving more options that running an AFK mining op by opening up harvesting as a path to mining that should have always been an option to slow down voxel based mining from the start.

 

The animation simplification was also a good step forward as it felt like you had multiple screens that were all essentially the same thing. Personally I thought they just needed the base screen and hitting calibrate in the same screen without opening up any other screens and then the output ore could all have been done in 1 simple screen without all the time spent making the animations.

 

 

As far as suggestions go: (Mix & Match or take your pick)

 

A: Adding Sinks to the entire mining system

 

Mining has long needed a sink beyond the fuel consumption needed to get to a mining location or MU pickup/calibration locations. Mining should at the very least cost fuel depending on if you are in atmo or space but also that it should require the same tier or higher boring or drill bits to actually dig through the rock as well as via harvesting in order to gain resources.

 

Mining is always the root of all evils in this game and before when it was finite resource based not having sinks for mining across the board while needed at the time was not as much as a priority as much as it is needed now with infinite resources and different avenues of mining with Asteroids, MUs, Calibrations spawns, or Harvesting culminating to having so much of an influx of ore coming into the system that is generated automatically over time, or by burst gains from calibrations, rocks, or mass influxes when asteroids repop.

 

Something needs to give to take ore out of the system. Calibration Charges only serve to slow down that process by only allowing so many miners to opperate at 100% efficiency for so long limiting how much ore can come in by the tile L/H rate.

 

 

  1.  All forms of mining need an energy source to opperate:
    1. Solar Panels & batteries to both keep MUs opperating during the daytime but also that you can add more panels to store up enough energy during the nightime and having battery 1-100% charge being the efficiency so that if you have max efficiency for free.
    2. Generators and fuel Tanks so that you can link a generator to the MUs on a tile and have Fuel Tanks linked to the generator to power the MUs consistently at the cost of fuel to keep a consistent 100% effiency
    3. Tools need to run on batteries or fuel as well so that harvesting tools, scanners, detectors, mining tools or a sifting tool needs some sort of power source in which to opperate and dig. Solar Panels should be able to also chage battery cells that can be used instead of fuel but should run out more quickly or drop in efficiency the lower it goes vs fuel always running at a consistent 100% and if you are in atmo then it uses Nitron and if you are in Space then it uses Kergon.
  2. Add in Boring Bits, and drill bits to the game:
    1. Boring bits should be a means to increase the static base rate of L/H of an MU so that while it has a base sink of fuel or power to run the MU or Tools it has a component that you can use a Boring Bit for MUs that increases the L/H to overcap production at the cost of a consumable resource that is based on whatever tier you are mining you need an equivelent tier Boring bit or higher. So if you are mining T1 for instance you can use a Boring bit that is T1-5 and get a much higher yield using T5 Vs T1 or that T5 uses T5 boring bits and adds minimal gain so that lower tiers are worth over capping since you would get a much more extended use out of the bits before they wear down.
      1. Boring Bits should wear down slowly with Every 10-100KL mined so that the more you overcap the boring bits the longer they last vs equivelent tiers.
      2. The more you overcap the boring bits you get +20-25% more per tier that so by using Boring Bits you can double the yield to 125% for the cost of using equivelent or higher ore based Bits.
      3. Boring bits should come in XS-L sizes, Basic-Unique grades, and come with Indusrial, Durable, or Diamond tags for addtional perks or specializations so that it lasts longer, does it faster, or give more gains or by going with higher grades or tags wears out faster and has a lower threshold of how many Liters it can gain before it wears out unless you go with a Durable tag vs gaining more or cutting time.
    2. Drill Bits should be the Tool Based version of the MU boring Bit but are used exclusively for Mining Based tools like the Harvesting Tool, Scanner Tool, Detector Tool, Mining Tool, or Sifting Tool so that while it has a base sink of fuel that must be present to even opperate those tools in atmo or space the player can opt into using drill bits to customize their mining tool so that they get more out of the experience in a faster time, get more, or can do it longer since the bits are more a conumable based mining buff that is a semi sink but more carrot than stick than the fuel sink as a trade off players can use or not use.
    3. Destructive Elements. Destructive elements should become part of the game again and could also be part of the buff system to extend the life cycle of elements either by temp or permabuffs when spending calibration Charges to improve something.

 

 

B: Make charges into a temp or permanant buff system:

 

If sinks like fuel and energy are added to MUs/Tools then it opens the door to converting Calibration Charges into a much less tedious and more meaningful System in general if instead of giving temporary efficiency gains it could be used as a buff based system that is either temporary or permanant in nature.

 

For instance if it is treated as a temporary buff based system using a charge on say a rail gun could for example boost its stats temporarily by 25% for 24 hours, or calibrating a container could lower its weight by 25% for 24 hours, or calibrating an enine could boosts its stats by 25% for 24 hours, or an engine, adjustor, industry unit, you name it by 25% for 24 hours in which you have choices on how to spend the temporary buff on a much wider range of elements vs MUs alone by the role you like to play most to get more out of your gameplay. Or save them up for a rainy day to blow more charges at once or group boost haulers PvP fleets, MU operations, or Industry by what you actually want to do rather than being bound to MUs as a netflix version of DU that constantly nags asking "Are you still playing?"

 

Or reversely converting Calibration Charges so that it is more like a leveling system in which you can add stats directly to elements when you use a charge and select which stats you want to permanantly buff if say for a rail gun you wanted to boost the range by +10KM, or +damage by +1000 to a specific type, Or to buff your shields to absorb a certain damage type. Same could be true for anything in the game for thrust, atmo heat resistance threshold, lift, L/H on a miner, fuel cost reduction, -weight, +HP, and anything else you can think of that makes things better over time sinks we dont have destructible elements and it gives a good avenue of improvement across the board for all elements from PvP, Piloting, Mining, Industry etc that still conforms.

 

Though I think that the only real difference between applying a temp buff vs permanant stats increase should be done by if the element is claimed and bound to yourself or your org in which personal ships should get better boosts than orgs since you could in theory group buff an element with permanant stats which should be a thing vs temporary buffs that are only applied to unclaimed elements.

 

In regards to spending Calibration Charges as Buffs to the Destructive Elements system in Permanant or Temporary buffs the life cycle of how many lives an element has could be built into the Charge Buff system in the sense that if you calibrate the core you could add +1 break to the core for 24 hours or if you claim the element you can then add +1 break as many times as you want to essentially make it unbreakable to losing it and needing a replacement just as any other element if you so choose but at the same time making destructible elements more of a feature of the game in which unless you calibrate cores or any other element you get only 1 break and or that XS-L cores cost more, Basic-Uniuq costs more, or tags like Military, Freight, Maneuvering, Industrial, Durable, Efficient, etc also costs more chrarges inherantly vs the temprary buff and permanant buff respectively.

 

 

  1. Change Calibration Charges to a Buff based System so that instead of being a cap to mining it becomes a larger part of the game that makes things better for a 24 hour period or permanant for small boosts to all stats on any element in the game
    1. Temp Buff based Calibration Charges apply to any element you have not claimed for yourself or your Org. If it is bound to you via claiming the elements then you can spend Calibration charges to inherantly buff the Element for 24 hours only and can stack up to 5 or T5 buff any element in the game via group calibrations.
    2. Pera Buff based Calibration Charges apply to Claimed elements only since there is no real way to distinguish stats improvements easily on the market and should be reserved for those who are not selling those elements and since they have claimed them for their person or org it should allow players to improve elements with permanant stats increases which cost a charge to add minimal stats over time or to add more break counts to elements. Depending on the stats it should either upgrate the cost for percieved tiers once you cross a certain threshold so that T2 stats upgrades cost 2 charges or so on with no upward limit so that you could theoretically have T100 stats if you have an entire ore funneling their charges into a PvP ship or Fleet where it takes 100 charges per tip for an upgrade you can bank as you go.
    3. If destrictive elements were added back into the game any break could/should reduce the buff counters across the board by 1 so that it is in a way permanant but at the same time there is at least some form of a death penalty that reduces the break counter by 1 but also any additioanl buffs to allow stats by -1 or a break and a loss to 1 random stat by -1 regardless of tier or focus on the furthest calibrated stat to degrade.
    4. Mining Units & Calibration Buff Charges should also give buffs for L/H for unclaimed MUs opperating but at the same time Claimed personal or Org MUs should allow for players to upgrade the miners for mining specific tier ore outputs and also being allowed to spend charges on claimed personal and org TUs to also upgrate their tiles or add other ores available to that planet to their tile as well by adding a small amount of L/H respective of the tier to how many charges it costs to at say 10 L/H to the tile permanantly so if you want to add T1 ore L/H it costs 1 charge to gain +10L/H vs T5 ore costing 5 charges to add +10L/H to a specific ore available to that planet. Or making it cost a lot more charges to potentially add an ore not available to the planet and penalizing charges so you only gain +1L/H instead of +10L/H as well as additional charges for the priveledge so tiles are always static to what was generated but also that you can add value over time or tie the L/H to the tax system for upgrading the resource pool of the tile so that Every 100L/H per ore is 50-100,000h added to taxes above the base cost to allow for upgrades but also to take quanta out of the game for those who want to do more with fewer tiles to be more in line with owning more tiles or eventually being able to add more miners to one tile as you get more ore as well as make more use out of low L/H ores not really worth mining on select tiles.

 

In general this would open up a much more fun and robust use of calibrations so that it removes the time stop for calibrating MUs exclusively and allowing all elements to take use of the system as a buff rather than a punishment or time restriction if all mining tools/units required a fuel or power source, could be buffed or upgraded depending on if they are claimed/unclaimed so that they can be sold and allowing for both a temp and permanant buff system or research system to be added to all elements to make every role in the game more fun in general wether you are a miner, pilot, industrialist, or PvPer everyone benefits rather than one role in the game being punished.

 

C: Bring Back Territory Ore Pools

 

Territory Ore Pools should be added back into tiles beyond the L/H ores and while there is no longer voxel based ore, the tile can then be made to either spawn ore each day or require and Ore Generator to pull that ore out of the ground and seed it as the calibration rocks so that you can make more use of how much ore you can pick up from a tile per week as well as per month if ore pool respawn rates are replenished so much during each tax cycle so that if you mine out all the spawnable ore in a couple of days each weekly tax cycle will respawn 25% of the ore in that tile each week and 100% every 4 weeks on top of the potential ore pool you can spawn on the surface via Ore Generators to suppliment between cycles so that there is always something to do.

 

And while onworld voxel ore has been moved to asteroids and NQ wants to keep the foxus to running asteroids I think that over the course of a week you should with effort be able to pull similar numbers you can with quick gains on asteroids in terms of KL via MUs generating ore constantly costing fuel and depositing ore directly into containers vs having to chase down calibration rocks, but at the same time offering an Ore Generator that will also constantly spawn rocks on the surface from the ore pool that are the calibration rocks to actually make surface mining worthwhile on top of the talent upgrades so that Asteroid mining is in line with MU/OG combo production and spawn rates over a week period with 25% of the spawnable tile ore pool being replenished each week or 100% every 4 weeks in a steady flow.

 

  1. Tile ore pools should be added back into the game
    1. MUs still use the L/H model but since Charges wouldnt be needed in the meta if fuel/energy were the efficiency metasink the Calibration Rock Spawns should just be added into the L/H across the board as you dont or shouldnt need to chase rocks ever if all that ore just went into a container directly like it should the MU is collecting.
    2. Ore Generators should be added to the game so that with the ore pool number after each ore type L/H number should be what the OG can spawn on the ground rather than the 20L rocks so that harvesting is actually worth doing and made better by talents. OGs should be the other half of MUs to where MUs generate ore into containers and OGs spawn the ore underground directly onto the ground with the calibration rocks without having to do calibrations so that either you want to mine the ore or you just want to collect it and since you can do both its a better system overall.
  2. The Tax Cycle should be the metric by which how much of the ore pool Ore Generators can spawn each week. Since MUs just constanly produce on L/H the ore pool should also have a consistent replenishment that is once a week that when taxes go through it adds 25% of each ore back into the tile so that if you dont touch the ore for a month you can drain it all and spawn it on the surface as slow or fast as you want and it has a finite amount you can grab at your leisure.

 

There should be options so that if you dont like chasing calibration rocks you just run an MU and all the ore just goes into containers and the calibration rocks are just added back into the L/H directly since fuel/energy since would make charges obsolete with converting it to a buff system and would nto need to calibrate for ore it should go into the container and not need to collect rocks onless your container is full and it just keeps spawning the ore around it.

 

As well as having another option via a tile ore pool for org miners to have something to do each week that is actually worth doing if the ore pool is tied to an Ore Generator that has a sepperate ore pool to spawn additional ore onto the surface you or your org can mine that is similar to the old tile ore pools that replensihes the pool each week that also runs on fuel/energy to allow for surface ore mining even if its not voxel based to be similar to how much you could mine and if you own multiple tiles it always gives something to do.

 

 

D: Tile Spawn Tables:

 

Rocks dont need to be the only thing that can spawn in a tile as a potential resource that can be collected by players.

 

Many other things could also be added to the spawn table of tiles that have a % chance of spawning like any other MMO as far as spawns go and can be another form of salvaging as well.

 

  1. Instead of just raw ore Pure Refined ore could also be made into rock forms so that you get more bang for your buck every so often.
  2. Scrap can also be turned into random boken looking parts that when harvested simply generate scrap of that type in your inventory.
  3. Broken or damage parts can be spawned instead of rocks that a player can use the repair tool to locate on the ground that must first be fixed before the harvest tool can be used to put it into your inventory since it could be considered abandoned parts, space jump that fell down.
  4. Rusted away ships where most if not all parts are permanantly destroyed and voxel parts are missing for sections of ships or wrecks of whatever size have ended up somewhere in the world.
  5. Actual damaged/undamaged ships that spontaniously end up on your tile that could as a substantial amount of your ore pool instead of spawning rocks, pure rocks, parts, etc that have a cost associated with your tiles ore pool that can spawn randomly at a low spawn rate.
  6. Adding the rocks and ore calibration rocks to asteroids as well that do not show up on scanners but com in the form of 20L-25kl you can encounter between nodes that also come in raw or pure ore from harvesting them.
  7. Static cores could even be used as spawnable salvageable constsructs as well in the form of vaults, satililies, or any sort of thing attached to a structure above or even below the surface that was not there before that is static in nature.
  8. Even things like treasure maps, wreck locations, or even scan results in random containers could be used as spawnable elements where it does not have to be a physical thing.
  9. Higher than T5 parts could be deployed as salvageable parts or random things like XL cores could also be part of the spawn loot table for tiles
  10. Alien crash landings, alien ship parts, ancient elements etc that are T6-10 could also randomly be introduced as well to spawns.

 

This would be a lot more insteresting than just mining raw ore if you could come across pure ore a lot less frequently that comes in the same sizes as the calibration rocks as well as scrap, broken ship parts spawns, undamaged ship parts spawns, parts of ships, wrecks, damage or damaged ships that have the abandoned system in play before you can claim it makes for a more insteresting system than just small Liter amounts in rocks.

 

As above so below as they say and I think the same should apply to space as well with the wreck system or asteroids to where it might show up as a basic asteroid but when you get there it could be a pure iron asteroid, it could be some kind of massive ship that looks like an asteroid, it could be some kind of weapons platform that fires at you that appears like an asteroid, or instead of just a soil/ore asteroid it could be a massive meganode of ore with a thin sheet of soil.

 

There really needs to be a lot more variance rather than 20h-500h rocks that go up into the 10-25kl rrange. For instance NQ could also spawn tons of rocks on/in the asteroids in the dirt between ore nodes for example that dont show up on a scanning tool that could be the same as ore calibration rocks that also are a lot bigger that take longer but have a random payout up to 25kil that could take 5 mins non talents to mine and perhaps like 2.5 with talents before the gain boost.

 

 

E: Sifting as a feature:

 

Even during when voxel mining was a thing players either didnt collect the massive quantities or dirt or only used dirt, sand, snow, or canyon soil for teraforming which was a missed oppertunity for the most abundant and yet least used resource in the game that oculd have been used to slow down mining so that the dirt, sand, snow, and canyon soils could have been used in a nanocrafter or industry sifting unit to gain small trace amounts of ore via sifting as an actual feature of the game.

 

But now with no voxel ore in the game there is another chance to turn it into a feature that does not rely on actually digging anything or to turn dirt into another unintended form of mining in the process leading to the same pitfall of needing a geometry reset.

 

Sifting like all other mining tools should rely on fuel/energy in order to generate resources that should intentionally be made specifically different from existing soils and be called differently from them so people do not dig up sand, snow, dirt, or canyon soils and be named something like Soil, Sediment, Clay, Peat, Chaulk, and or just rock so that it has a distinction that can be collected from a Sifting Tool

 

The Sifting Tool simply is just a cloned Mining Tool that does not actually dif and has two functions of Collect or Sift in which it generates the different materials and like the scanner tool it has options to where you can just collect the resource, Collect and Sift, or Sift as its three options so that you can simply choose what you want it to do on the fly hitting tab and selecting the three options like the Scanner tool selects ore types. 

 

A player must have the collect dirt option turned on in their inventory to generate the resources into their linked container. If you are just collecting the player will generate more soil resources faster or they have the option to collect and sift at the same time which slows the collection and sifting process down to do both at the same time, or once the player has filled the container to a certain point without filling it can then switch to the sift function to turn it all into small amounts of ore with each craft so that it creates another way in which to generate different ores that still uses gas as all mining tools should.

 

  1. Add a Sifting Tool to the game by cloning the Mining Tool, making it not actually dig and still generate resources, give it three options like a Scanner Tool so that you can Collect, Collect/Sift, and Sift that relies on fuel/energy to opperate that generate clay, top soil, chaulk, salt, or rock depending on location that is different than sand, dirt, snow, or canyon soil to avoid dirt mining leading to another geometry reset since a Sifting Tool does not actually dig vs generating siftable resources to a linked container.
  2. Sifting takes the different resources and generates trace amounts of ore for each type in 1-5L per sift up to 25L max with takents every sedong or could of seconds at the cost of fuel/energy and uses 100L worth of the resources to consistently generate ore via RNG.
  3. Sifting could also be a way to generate the gems NQ once wanted to add into mining to make it worthwhile to do that could be used in various crafts
  4. Thes new types of sediment could additionally be used as new forms of teravoxels even if they arent traditioanlly gained from digging or be base elements for making rock based ores like taking rock+Chaulk and making limestone for instance (just a thought).
  5. Sifting could also be a way to add some kind of industry type units to ships such as having industrial sifter Elements on ships in a Scoop based element that collects more of the soil resources without digging, and an actual sifting unit that runs on hydrogen and oxigen (H2O) and fuel in order to have some kind of exclusive industry type system for ships to make ship based mining a thing.

 

This type of system would do no actual damage to the game but still offer a new type of feature in which if you have MUs running, you have already exausted your Ore Generated tile ore pool, and are waiting for asteroids to pop you still have something you can do or go exploring on your planet or any planet, or as a new player you can sift on land you own/dont own that does not really affect anything but still generate roughly the same equivelent amount of dirt a mining tool did via talents in terms of speed/gain, size, etc but uses clay, salt, peat, chaulk, or rock it generates as the sifting materials so people dont dig out whole moons again to sift.

 

F: Ship Bsed Mining:

 

With Sifting adding a Ship Based Mining component that like all suffestions here uses fuel/energy as its source as both a sink but a power source can be used to allow ships to also become a mining source when MUs are running, OG ore pools are exausted, or waiting on asteroids to pop you can still have something to do to generate more resources.

 

I touched on the Sfting Tool and also the Ship based element for the scroop/Sifter elements that could be used to collect new different soil types from dirt, sand, snow, canyon soil to produce trace amount 1-25L and -5L potentially per tier per sift and maybe more for industrial ship mining elements. But Ship Mining Elements could also be in the form of some kind of tractor beam or magnet type element to where if you are hovering over ground rocks or even the calibration rocks the Ore generator produces it could act like alien abductions with just a blue light that shines down to where the tractor beam automatically collect a number of rocks per second or X amont of liters in rocks per second with the tractor beam or by some kind of magnet.

 

 

G: DROIDS!

 

I think that it is time to start introducing NPCs into the game via droids as pets that serve a multitude of functions that a player can only have one out at a time to suit the need at hand. 

 

Droids should come in ground based hover, or flying droids in which can do various things like a player can such as repairs, harvest/mine, refuel, fly, act as a targeting comuter/gunner, Industrial assistant, combat droid (if when hand weapons are introduced), etc in which they can do things up to a certain range independent of the player but acting solely on their behalf and can use the players inventory to help do its tasks.

 

  1. Repair/Refueling droids could fix broken parts automatically or top off MU fuel tanks, ship fuel tanks, create fuel if needed or repair broken elements, turn permanantly broken parts into scrap, as well as repair org members ships as well as refuel depending on what droid you have out.
  2. Mining/Harvesting droids would help dig tunnels on asteroids when they find ore or harvest rock spawns on planets or when a player comes across harvestable rocks or gems inbetween asteroid nodes. Onworld they would fly around and auto collect rocks to a certain range to help aid in resource aquisition outside the players spheere of harvesting range so tht they dont constantly mine the rocks you can. Mining/Harvesting Droids could also set waypoints to good densities of rocks as well or point you to the nearest rock with some kind of resource waypoint if there are none nearby with some kind of blue waypoint.
  3. Droids would run on fuel/energy and cannot heal themselves unless an org member is in the vacinity with a repair droid.
  4. Droids could should have some kind of upgrade system of XXS parts that are the same as ship parts scaled down for droid scale and perhaps XXXS parts that players could potentially attach to themselves as a means of customization like putting hover engines under their shoes or the rocket boosters on as a jetpack or like wings for glding or additioanl lights to their helment/shoulders.
  5. Droids could be another charge sink if Calibration Charges we changed to a buff based system that was permanant or temporary if the elements are claimed or unclaimed for permanant statsgains or a temporary buff.

 

Droids would help make things a lot easier if it cut down on monotony or aided in what the player is already doing and have it help do that much more on top of it.

 

H: Mining Instances

 

Since voxel mining does too much damage to the game to be persistant onworld mining should just require a mine elevator Element that has a surface component that must be planced on the ground with the base of it in the ground itself in which players can enter the mine shaft hit the button to go down and when they do the doors close and it then it starts to descend down at which time it loads the instance which is just a small starting area around the exit to the mine shaft elevator.

 

I think that such instances should either have a time component or a structural integrity component that the more the player digs and destroys up to a certain point the mine loses integrity and a mine collapse is immanant and the player has to decide how much is enough or they risk collapse and death and losing what they would have gained.

 

Perhaps there could be other components like using the flattening tool along with the smooth tool and being able to build structural supports, beams, and minecar tracks that can persist between mining runs so that players can keep structural intedrity as much as possible until the area is dug to the point it collapses anyways.

 

But props like beams, lights, rail tracks, mining carts (containers that can be pushed), and other mining elements could make for a cool experience tht just requires the player to leave and have a linked outside inventory large enough to fit into or the overflow will be lost.

 

It could also create a group mining/building/engineering game until it collapses due to being dug out too much and a new instance is created.

 

  1. A mining instance could simulate the old version of mining in a way that saves on the escalting costs of of a persistant versions of the old mining system while still offering the same experience within tiles.
  2. If a mine collapses it should have a 2 week to 1 month cooldown on each tile a player/org opens up.
  3. Digging should deplete the structural integrity meter in the instance the more tunnels or shafts you dig unless players spend voxels to create structural beams or using some kind of structural beam element that maintains a small amount of integrity to be able to keep mining.
  4. Track systems should also be able to be placed that are element based that comes in straight track, curves, switches, cross tracks, etc that mining carts can be placed on that act as a mobile pushable inventory source for mining within the tile that has a shorter range than a traditional container.
  5. Potentially mining train engines to move the mining carts.
  6. Being able to place other elements like lights and other things in the mining instance.
  7. When structural integrity is low enough there should be some kind of temor type sound that plays according to the structural integrity meter as an audible que that the integrity is lowering or collapse is immannt if the sound is loud enough at which time it is either your opportunity to pack up all the elements, bank the ore, and cut your losses or risk losing all of what is down there.

 

On the other hand this type of system could be used again in an instanced simulator in many of the same ways as a VR type experience in some kind of distant solar system to where a mining colony has been established and requires surrigates to VR to this solar system and mine.

 

At which point players collect as much as they can in very much the same way as they do now and should have the ability to create mining carts, beams, tracks, light sources, etc and place them down to keep structural integrity in the area and players can work together to mine and in exchange since you cannot take the ore with you NQ pays your account in credits or quanta instead of ore which you could use to buy ore or whatever as a sort of persistant instance that still collapses every so often due to players digging too much and a new mining location is generated the following week and collapses at the end of the week if players dont keep the integrity high enough for it to continue to persist before it collapses.

 

Edited by Warlander
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I'm not getting why some ppl think the MUs are responsible for the low ore prices... My MUs don't generate that much ore... But mining asteroids does. And the drop in prices af the weekends shows that too. IMO it's having asteroids spawn only in weekends that causes everybody to rush out and mine them all (safe zone), and then flood the market. Spreading out the roids over the week would remove this "gold rush" and flooding every weekend.

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30 minutes ago, DevilsOwn said:

I'm not getting why some ppl think the MUs are responsible for the low ore prices... My MUs don't generate that much ore... But mining asteroids does. And the drop in prices af the weekends shows that too. IMO it's having asteroids spawn only in weekends that causes everybody to rush out and mine them all (safe zone), and then flood the market. Spreading out the roids over the week would remove this "gold rush" and flooding every weekend.

Mining units can generate quite a lot of ore.  I have some Acanthite tiles which generate a little over 1 million Acanthite per month.  That's probably the equivalent of a couple of hours' mining every single day and quite a few asteroids worth and it's very low effort.  It wasn't very hard to find the spot so there are probably a lot more like it which other people have.

And now they're giving me 30% more capacity so I can go look for some other ore type as well.

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Regarding the changes ... 

 

Changing the calibration from 48 to 72 is likely just resulting in 1/3 more MUs, as you can maintain more MUs with the same amount of charges... And it doesn't change the "job like" part of "having to" recalibrate at a "fixed" time for your MUs to run optimal. 

 

But changing the degrading rate of calibrations to be dependent on time elapsed would make if more flexible. So instead of a fixed rate of degrading, it would increase over time. This would make it so that it would not matter as much if you recalibrate like a day late, making it more flexible to when you "have to" calibrate again = making the game less of a job you "have to do" at a certain time, but a game you can play more flexible when you have time.

 

Adding even more skills one have to get to make the game "playable" is not the solution to the boring and tedious task of picking up spawned rocks... It's still will be a tedious job...

 

Sure having then spawn at the same spot, would remove the "having to run all over the place" part... But you still would have to pick those rocks up... One by one... 

Edited by DevilsOwn
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18 minutes ago, Zeddrick said:

Mining units can generate quite a lot of ore.  I have some Acanthite tiles which generate a little over 1 million Acanthite per month.  That's probably the equivalent of a couple of hours' mining every single day and quite a few asteroids worth and it's very low effort.  It wasn't very hard to find the spot so there are probably a lot more like it which other people have.

And now they're giving me 30% more capacity so I can go look for some other ore type as well.

Not all can have good tiles to mine... From what I have seen you where lucky. 

 

And yes, you are right about the 33% more capacity... It's not good... Just going to make ppl place more MUs

 

Personally I will not place more MUs, but it will give me 33% more charges I can sell... 

 

Btw it only takes me a day or so to mine 1000kl of mixed ore from an asteroid... And I don't have to pay tax to do so 

 

Edited by DevilsOwn
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With the previous version we had infinite ore and infinite quanta, with a daily fastidius works

But now it's insane, before MU generate ore at about 7quant/liter
and now it will be about 3quanta/litre !

I realy don't see how NQ will clean the economie, we have infinite ressource and infinite monney =(

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4 minutes ago, Aranol said:

With the previous version we had infinite ore and infinite quanta, with a daily fastidius works

But now it's insane, before MU generate ore at about 7quant/liter
and now it will be about 3quanta/litre !

I realy don't see how NQ will clean the economie, we have infinite ressource and infinite monney =(

My friend Aphelia has some schematics to sell you ;) 

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6 hours ago, Zeddrick said:

One of the big problems at the moment, IMO, is that autominers are generating too much ore which is causing the markets to crash due to oversupply. 

 

This.. very much.

 

NQ seems to think for some reason the taxrate was the issue and they seem to have figured that the calibrations were too.

 

Point is that neither really were the problem and the changes meean very little in context of  what is actually happening, bigger groups and orgs exploiting their unlimited supply of ore to stack up on cash.

 

All these enew changes really achieve is that bigger players/orgs now have virtually no impact from taxes, they donot need to pay tax for their inducstry to be running and by utilizing their org members HQ tiles they do not hav eto worry about lozing their (industry) complexes.

 

NQ really shows to not understand thei own game or their player base at all still and is just throwing stuff at the wall in the hopes some of it will stick and make people resub without any real thought going in to the impact the changees have. These changes effectively undo the taxes for anyone but the small/solo player.
 

They seem to not be listening to their playerbase at all, they just do what a select few whisper in their ear, a select few who only have their own interest in mind.

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As mentioned, we need an element sink otherwise why are we mining? Read the idea box for inspiration NQ.

 

Although it makes perfect sense to put the bonus ore right under the MU, it unfortunately mean that our special designed crafts and lua is headed to the trashcan. So we would love to see mechanics elsewhere in the game that call for specialized crafts of all sorts.  

Edited by StarWuz
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Great changes :) my only concern atm is the ore prices. I do suspect there are still many ore reserves out there from the past mega nodes, and surely NQ are watching the ore consumption production rate :) ? all good

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7 hours ago, Caerus said:

Need more incentives to PVP.  Random shipwrecks and non-valuable ore (due to ore being too cheap) on asteroids won't be enough. Making the ore on asteroids in PVP space both unique (not on any planet) and needed (in most recipes) would do it. Only one unique type would be sufficient.

 

I get that from a PVP oriented player that may be the case, the majority of players though see this differently I am sure. What we need is content which is worth the risk _without_ being effectively a feeder for PVP players. Asteroids outside safezones have no value to run unless you ar elooking for engagements. There is no rewards in PVP soace that justify the risk for anyone not interested in PVP engagements and what is there is way to easy for PVP players to camp/mark. 

We need something equivalent to PVE sites in 9yes) EVE, sites that drop loot which is valuable fo rthe economy, play into research, invention and industry and will retain it's value to be brought to market by the PVE player chasing/finding it or the PVP player chasing the PVE player.

 

The game does not need handouts for PVP players as that is not worth it for anyone but the few who seek the engagement.

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I was able to maintain solo 5 tiles worth of active mining units.  Selling the T1 ore alone from those tiles made me tens of millions a week. I could have done smarter things and made more.

Now I am able to control at least 10 tiles worth of mining units alone. There is no need for teamwork and maintaining large operations alone is now not only achievable, but easy. With an already easy challenge made easier there is much less satisfaction for me.

Edited by crowethecreator
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It's 50% more MU that you can maintain not double. To maintain the equilibrium we had before, it would have been required to raise calibration recharge time in equal proportions to MU grace period.

The changes are fine, but also very generous. But more than anything this forum proved it's utter uselessnes and I hope NQ is drawing conclusions from that. Seems the only thing this community can agree is the "we need more talking" talk, gonna spare you the mysoginist stereotypes that are rushing through my head...

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i just post my personal feedback here again after i wrote it for my organization members:

I am very much in the market trading... what happened the last few weeks is really abnormal. Some items have lost even 60-70% of market value!
Almost everything is (which was already only a flogging) now thrown on the market for even cheaper than the lowest offer ... and of course from player to player ...
The changes from the patch I personally find also again much too exaggerated.
-The industry without costs / rent operate ? . I'm curious whether they bring at some point still the energy system pure and whether they then also remove it 2weeks later again because 20Leute rummeckern ?
-MU charge extend. I find good in itself, but why to 50 ... ? doubled would have been perfectly sufficient.
-MU grace period or what it is called... 48h was fully okay - don't understand how you some can complain there. Actually, directly after Charge would start 100% a decay timer (would be at least in any other game so? ).
But here in DU (-where there should actually be a long-term incentive/sense/goal) everything is made too easy. And if you do change something, then a 179° turnaround is made right away with minimal resistance and it is simplified again....
I really don't know what to make of this, in part a lot of things have progressed since the change in leadership, but then NQ falls back into an old pattern of rowing back and also leave many long-standing problems such as "player driven market" untouched or make it even worse.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

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