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Staggering Upkeep - Discussion thread


NQ-Pann
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I've been a bit busy the last few days, but am i understanding correctly that all of my HQ territories were randomly assigned for me?

 

I haven't checked yet but i sure hope it's easy to figure out which ones are HQ now, and that i can untag them from the Map.

 

I'd be a bit grumpy if i have to travel to each TU separately to undo that.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Atmosph3rik said:

I've been a bit busy the last few days, but am i understanding correctly that all of my HQ territories were randomly assigned for me?

 

I haven't checked yet but i sure hope it's easy to figure out which ones are HQ now, and that i can untag them from the Map.

 

I'd be a bit grumpy if i have to travel to each TU separately to undo that.

 

 

It’s not random. It’s a priority script taking in the number of personally owned static constructs on the tiles you also own. (Statics owned by orgs/others have no effect). 
 

I don’t agree with tiles with 0 assets on them being auto assigned but currently it will do that also. So if you have no statics for the script to count I suppose it could be random. 

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Sorry though this would be off topic in here... reposting, since my thread is locked.

 

I don't believe a player vs. NQ dynamic is productive.

Despite the real player pain points that seem to get harder to swallow with changes like today, and things like the implementation of taxes which have caused some of us major loss, and as I see it balance issues to chores vs. fun. On NQ's side it is a communication issue that keeps flaring up the community. Understandable we as player in a vacuum of information will come up with our own assumptions for the reasons of changes, and it won't work to NQ's favor.

That said, I believe NQ keeps hoping we will do something more positive than the threads of angst. Honestly though, we as a community are in a vacuum of actionable guidance. Without an option or path that feels productive layed out for us, I think people will default to the most basic, simple, direct thing, verbally take up arms and flame NQ on the threads, cause we have no other tools available to us other than protest to vent/process/respond to the pain of some of these updates...


Viable reasons NQ did what they did...

Staggering: Server strain, I can wait 3 additional days, this isn't worth getting fired up about. Pretty simple.

 

HQ'ed Tiles: Avoid forcing players who have inactive subs to resub just to protect assets. Honestly, they are damned if they do here, damned if they don't. If they didn't do this they are the greedy company trying to force people to resub so they don't lose their stuff. If they do this they are liars that just want to rob us of fun and rights to loot and pillage... There isn't any information here to help me understand why they did this, I can only assume.

I don't see a scenario here where NQ walks out of this without looking like NQ vs. Community. 

All that said, letting us know there are technical issues that could harm the server would be a good call.
"Following last Tuesday's maintenance, we monitored the effect of territory upkeep as it was applied for the first time to the live server." - Pann

 

HQ'ing 5 tiles and not providing any information, is exactly the type of thing breeding the mistrust between NQ and community... This is where NQ has the opportunity to improve in communication so it isn't a developer vs. player dynamic. When players are not given clear explanations, we as a community come up with our own answers, and our imaginations are far worse, and much more negative at this point than reality on any given change.

@NQ-Pann @NQ-Deckard

 

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Coming from the PvD thread or Player vs Developer dynamic thread.

 

After NQ went from alpha to beta they stopped making content and pivoted to a Player VS Developer in which they gave us things and we broke them and it seems like they spend a lot of time trying to close all the things they dont like us doing and they inevitably give us more things to abuse with each patch. Its not a dynamic as much as it has become a cycle in which the devs are acting like GMs instead of Devs in their reaction patches.

 

Its an interesting twist on a distopia genre to MMOs of building a civ before falling victims to the enevitable back slide of runing a game or virtual government in a game like most tyrants become and end up doing when they turn from content creators into digital warlords.

 

Its either benevolence or wrath.

Edited by Warlander
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4 hours ago, Anopheles said:

No risk gameplay is not gameplay.  The auto HQ'ng nonsense is taking responsibility away from players to protect their own stuff in a game that was sold as a player run experience.

 

Nope. You wanted an easy (defenseless) kill to loot. NQ said No, now you are frustrated.

it's a normal reaction.

 

But you should encourage NQ to add actual fun stuff to do in the game.

 

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7 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

Nope. You wanted an easy (defenseless) kill to loot. NQ said No, now you are frustrated.

it's a normal reaction.

 

But you should encourage NQ to add actual fun stuff to do in the game.

 

Except no.  I wanted the responsibility put in the player in a, gosh, player run game.  Play the game (for ex subs), pay insurance, or a parking fee or think about where you are landing your construct.  Don't put awkward top down restrictions on free play.

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Can you please fix the messaging provided by the game when claiming territories? Because it's not accurate, not useful, cannot be clicked on to determine which hex/construct it's referring to, and suggests that dynamic constructs can also be requisitioned. Including dynamic constructs that are no longer in the hex. "Scan" and "temp1050" are not static constructs. They're dynamic constructs. And they're not in the hex. The territory is not named scan, or temp1050. The territories do have names, but those aren't the names. And I can't find out what territory the notification is referring to because those aren't the names.

 

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I agree with many others that those who have stopped playing for whatever reason should not get a free pass for not logging in and claiming HQ tiles. If they were still interested in the game they would take the 5 minutes to jump into the game and claim the tiles that are important to them.

 

I for one was looking forward to dismantling every abandoned tower in the game to remove these ugly, flying hazards from the game. Since these towers often have dozens of static cores, they will of course be the first tile set as an HQ if owned by a player. This makes it so there is now a 0% opportunity to remove these.

 

I agree that too much Dev interaction with the world goes against the games direction of a "Player made and run world" mentality. 

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I totally understand NQ's desire to do everything they can to give players a chance to know what's happening and keep their stuff if they want it.

 

But i think they could have accomplished that by simply extending the two week timer, for tiles claimed pre-demeter, to a month, or even two months.  Maybe send out a few emails.  Announce it on social media.

 

But it sure seems like this just locked up a huge percentage of tiles forever.  Is there any means at all to unlock these tiles, if the player who claimed them never returns to the game?

 

Other than a planned but unannounced full wipe...

Edited by Atmosph3rik
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On 12/10/2021 at 6:13 PM, Anopheles said:

I think unsubbed hqs eventually lapse, but it's still a horrible, top down solution that puts non/former-players of the game ahead of actually playing players 

Be carful what you wish for because that logic suggests the HQ tile system should be removed completely. Soon as you decide / need to take a break you fall in to the former player category. 

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57 minutes ago, Physics said:

Be carful what you wish for because that logic suggests the HQ tile system should be removed completely. Soon as you decide / need to take a break you fall in to the former player category. 

As it should be.  If the game is to be a representation of a dynamic universe, things need to be able to change.  If I fail to play, the world should roll over me.  

 

and the hq system is fine - if confined to actually playing players.

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45 minutes ago, Anopheles said:

As it should be.  If the game is to be a representation of a dynamic universe, things need to be able to change.  If I fail to play, the world should roll over me.  

 

and the hq system is fine - if confined to actually playing players.

 

Agrees. If you own a citadel and stop playing the fuel runs out. Goes into low power mode. Then after that goes into abandoned and all can be lost, even in highsec. Only real safety is NPC stations. And Sanctuary is the NPC station of DU.

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On 12/9/2021 at 5:30 AM, NQ-Pann said:

Auto-assignment is done as follows for each player who had 0 headquarters assigned. For each territory they own, starting with the highest number of static constructs owned by that player on that territory, we set the territory to be flagged as headquarters, with up to a maximum of five territories per player. This only applies to player-owned territories;

I have some questions regarding the Auto-Assignment of HQ to territories. 

There are numerous individually owned territories that we had our eyes on to salvage. If I understand this correctly they will all be HQ and therefore unavailable unless, they own other tiles. So how will we know this?  Will there be a way to tell if this tile's owner has others and if a particular tile will be slotted to be abandoned? How do we tell the difference in what will actually become available?   Right now we cannot inspect a unit and determine this. 

 

I'm too small and too new of a player that can afford to just go out to a random 'inactive' tile and waste the quantas and territory units in hopes that I can get it. 

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24 minutes ago, Valencia said:

I have some questions regarding the Auto-Assignment of HQ to territories. 

There are numerous individually owned territories that we had our eyes on to salvage. If I understand this correctly they will all be HQ and therefore unavailable unless, they own other tiles. So how will we know this?  Will there be a way to tell if this tile's owner has others and if a particular tile will be slotted to be abandoned? How do we tell the difference in what will actually become available?   Right now we cannot inspect a unit and determine this. 

 

I'm too small and too new of a player that can afford to just go out to a random 'inactive' tile and waste the quantas and territory units in hopes that I can get it. 

You can’t claim it till it goes in to an abandoned state anyway, The fact it went in to an abandoned state answers your question. ?

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On 12/10/2021 at 4:24 PM, ArmedBOB said:

If they were still interested in the game they would take the 5 minutes to jump into the game and claim the tiles that are important to them.

Only if they know that they need to do that. I'm not aware of any official information for those who don't follow the forums.

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3 hours ago, Hecticus said:

Am I wrong in assuming the purpose of the tax was to clear the land of abandoned constructs?
If not that, what is this supposed to accomplish?

 

The devs briefly mentioned this in a devblog but I will elaborate here for those interested.

 

Prior to Demeter, there were cases whereby some individuals and organizations owned several hundreds of tiles each. A very impressive feat, considering how prohibitively expensive claiming land could get, coupled with how little value it held. The ones who did this were gambling that its worth would skyrocket with the introduction of auto-mining and territory warfare. A very logical conclusion since the devs would need to add incentives to territory ownership in order to make said features viable. Then Demeter came and owning territories became profitable.  The developers introduced calibration limits to put a cap on how much quanta you could extract, but this alone was not enough. Players had already shown they were willing to spend vast amounts on land when it was worthless, what do you think they would do now that it had actual value? Territory taxes and the associated reclamation system were not introduced to cleanup constructs but to prevent an uncontrolled land-rush. Without these measures a single player could (in theory) slowly work their way up to owning a whole planet.

 

Now a more interesting question is why did they remove the scaling costs for claiming tiles, isn't that counter productive? I suspect this was in future consideration of territory warfare. Losing a single territory would be far too punishing under the old system and therefore disincentivise pvp.

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12 minutes ago, Msoul said:

 

The devs briefly mentioned this in a devblog but I will elaborate here for those interested.

 

Prior to Demeter, there were cases whereby some individuals and organizations owned several hundreds of tiles each. A very impressive feat, considering how prohibitively expensive claiming land could get, coupled with how little value it held. The ones who did this were gambling that its worth would skyrocket with the introduction of auto-mining and territory warfare. A very logical conclusion since the devs would need to add incentives to territory ownership in order to make said features viable. Then Demeter came and owning territories became profitable.  The developers introduced calibration limits to put a cap on how much quanta you could extract, but this alone was not enough. Players had already shown they were willing to spend vast amounts on land when it was worthless, what do you think they would do now that it had actual value? Territory taxes and the associated reclamation system were not introduced to cleanup constructs but to prevent an uncontrolled land-rush. Without these measures a single player could (in theory) slowly work their way up to owning a whole planet.

 

Now a more interesting question is why did they remove the scaling costs for claiming tiles, isn't that counter productive? I suspect this was in future consideration of territory warfare. Losing a single territory would be far too punishing under the old system and therefore disincentivise pvp.

Very well put. Also if I remember NQ started looking at other avenues of countering the player ability of grabbing huge amounts of land before adopting the Tax system. Example was the proposed Org changes forcing every org to have a super legate or be deleted and each character could only be super legate to 1 org.
 

Players pushed back against this route and NQ once again listened to their feedback and scrapped those plans and went with the tax system. 

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Well, that's news to me. SNR is kinda high around here. 

It's too bad they aren't aiming for a purge of abandoned constructs though. Lots of tiles might have decent resources under them which will stay untapped -not to mention all the abandoned stuff that will just remain clutter for the indefinite future. Seems farsighted and unfortunate. 

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