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DEVBLOG: PVP COMMUNIQUÉ - Discussion Thread


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4 hours ago, Musclethorpe said:

Remove the ability to go into build mode while the PvP timer is active. There is no legitimate reason why players should be doing this during a battle.

You mean to say that during battle the crew on a large vessel would not try to fix the damage, and instead just sit apathetically and watch the damage accumulate?

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1 hour ago, CptLoRes said:

You mean to say that during battle the crew on a large vessel would not try to fix the damage, and instead just sit apathetically and watch the damage accumulate?

No, I believe he is saying that you should not be able to just float around outside of the ship immune to all damage and plop down new parts because you are "repairing".  

 

Repair is fine.

Build mode is not repairing, it is building or refitting.  

 

 

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8 hours ago, Jake Arver said:

 

 

Not really and the way this is worded shows that NQ does not really understand the concept/mechanic. Tracking is directly related to transversal velocity as in; If there is no transversal velocity, the big guns will track just fine and probably one-shot the smaller ship. If the smaller ship uses it's agility to create transversal velocity which is higher that the tracking ability of the larger guns, it will be come (much) harder for the guns to track and hence, hit. I doubt DU actually takes transversal velocity into account or even calcutates it.

they still miss.

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I think the voxel nerf period is ridiculous. Players wanted shields in order to provide another way to protect themselves. Not keep the "same" survivability and just change the way it looks! Also, the star wars franchise would have been dead before it started if it had DU style combat, just saying.

Can we get different types of resources to gather instead of just clicking rocks? 

Energy management system - hunger/thirst/o2?

More money = better tech = more chance to win an encounter, but the death star didn't fall because the resistance had better tech. Pvp needs human skill element.

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My few opinions:

 

In the next meta, the biggest ship with the most weapons, engines, and armor will win again. Ships without voxel armor and will play shield will still lose in a balanced match (players and quanta).

 

Fighting at 30,000 km / h is very problematic, not to mention the problems with the server getting out of sync. An L ship should not be faster than smaller ships. These can't have the same firepower or range, but will need to compensate with increased mobility.
Once at 30,000 there is no more strategy.

 

Why not also engage the ships of Dual Universe on a principle of trinity? :
- Mobility (engines, tank ...)
- Defense (voxel and shield)
- Attack (weapons, ammunition, radar)

 

We have to take risks and choose our strategy according to our objectives or our adversaries. The game has to push the players to do it.

 

We must give a strategic role to each category of ship (idea of an example of specialization that could be done, we can also think of hybrids):
- Carrier
- Hunters
- Anti-hunters
- Supply / Cargo
- Radar / electronic warfare option
- Destroyer

- Cuirassier
- Tractor beam vessel
- Ship with anti-warp

-  ... 
We must force the players not to be able to do EVERYTHING. Give us tough choices.

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4 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

You mean to say that during battle the crew on a large vessel would not try to fix the damage, and instead just sit apathetically and watch the damage accumulate?

Yes because you need to build a good vexel, All exterior elements must be accessible from the interior

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UM, Transversal =angular velocity????

 

Also Please don't seed the market with shields and asteroid finders

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On 7/29/2021 at 9:57 AM, FuriousPuppy said:

this updates pros and cons

 

Pros

-weapon tweaking, to be more helpful for server performance

-Gold nerf, as a seasoned pvp player since start of beta, as long as it was pure gold any ship was too difficult to shoot and kill without 4 hours worth of ammo (not joking)

-Shields giving cargo, lighter pvp ships a better chance at surviving with the new voxel nerfs

-asteroids, something to fight over in pvp space finally. Pvp before had no objectives to fight over and was for pure bragging rights. Now we can benefit for putting our constructs in danger

-glitch ships seem to be addressed on the PTS although not completely fixed but thats a good direction to go in

-Fight Times, the most expensive ship will die if its shot at enough in pvp space and it wont take 4 hours to kill someone

-PVP is now super cheap, anyone can get into it and they should. Missions really helped build bank accounts to afford the inventory needed
 

Cons

-Exotic phased radars have no purpose? whats the point of locking someone out to 4 SU if the game only lets you see 2 SU by Default?

-Docked Cores with res nodes and VR Surrogates allowing random players to spawn on destroyed constructs and enter build mode to delete a ship they dont own or even shot at

-Sunk guns inside solid voxel mass are still not obstructed and can fire freely, as well as other elements like brakes/adjusters/engines

 

Suggestions

-Recycling elements with lost lives would be cool (scraping it down for parts or giving the option to repair it with new parts)

-Destroyed Constructs coming to complete stops when destroyed. (people VR over after the ship died and ride it with the momentum it had before death making it impossible to capture due to server desync)

-Upgrade server performance with other Tiered Elements (uncommon wings M, advanced retrobrakes, exotic adjusters) this will lighten the load of the server when ships are using walls of brakes and adjusters

-wrecks on asteroids? 

-this one is kinda extreme, I would remove XS guns, make S guns automated only, make M guns attach to a pilots chair instead of a gunner's chair and make M cores ships the new "Fighter" type, and introduce a reloader unit (transfer unit basically) to reload the ammo containers for all weapons that works on all constructs

-Make a friend or foe system? you have a transponder element in the game, but I need to use custom scripts to use it and it doesnt really work that well... I wish we could openly declare war on enemies and promote allying with our friends. At the moment all ships are viewed the same. 

 

I think this is all good. A few things I would like to add.

1. Because building your own ships and bases is core to the game you cant just nerf voxel armor and not get massive voxel cubes. So I would leave voxel Hp the way it was based on mass and instead add a lot more resistances to the half tier voxels like Plastic Steel Carbon fiber exc like Plastic should be 90% resistant to electromagnetic but 0% to Kinetic Exc for all of the voxel you have the resistance mechanic in the game use it. Then nerf voxel by boosting weapon damage 2x or more.

2. To deal with lag reduce the number of weapons a seat can use so there all the same as Railguns just make weapons that are supposed to shoot more shoot faster or do more damage or hit with a burst of impacts like a 3 barrel cannon shoots calculate hit/miss if hit do 3 hits from the one shot if miss nothing more needs to be done reducing lag.

2. Make all weapons have the same range no matter the sized. So the XS Railgun and the L railgun should have the same ranges. So range changes by type of weapon not size. But like Engines make the Tracking be what changes with size XS have near perfect tracking L have very slow tracking. Because we make are own ships weapons meant for a size of construct cant be balanced so make them for attacking a type of construct like a real weapon would be designed based on what it needs to kill. Remove the weapon restriction by construct size so large weapons can go on XS Cores again.

3. Shields should recharge during combat every 30-60 seconds or so with a fixed amount of health and a shield should always negate all the damage from a shot no matter how powerful it is or how low the shield health is so no ship can be taken out with one shop this is why super small ships that can dodge 95% of hits still just die to the one L weapon shot that hits them.

4. There should be different types of shields with different resistances so that switching shields and damage types matters make a shield operator seat that can turn shields on and off and change resistances every 30-60 seconds the delay so that the server can have time to update to all the clients new hp and resistances.

5. Now that we have shields remove the fixed dodge chance from core size and add it to shield size so there is a reason to pick a smaller shield size, and let ramming do damage if the shield generator is off.

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14 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

You mean to say that during battle the crew on a large vessel would not try to fix the damage, and instead just sit apathetically and watch the damage accumulate?

Repairs aren't done in build mode.

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L-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

L-Weapon damage -> 75% dmg to M-Core

L-Weapon damage -> 50% dmg to S-Core

L-Weapon damage -> 25% dmg to XS-Core

 

M-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

M-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to M-Core

M-Weapon damage -> 75% dmg to S-Core

M-Weapon damage -> 50% dmg to XS-Core

 

S-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

S-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to M-Core

S-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to S-Core

S-Weapon damage -> 75% dmg to XS-Core

 

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to M-Core

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to S-Core

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to XS-Core

 

 

Radar detection depending on the cross-section to the target , engines/brakes on or off, External material and speed.

Bonus: When active engines are pointing at the enemy, detection is even easier.

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3 hours ago, HappyDevil said:

L-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

L-Weapon damage -> 75% dmg to M-Core

L-Weapon damage -> 50% dmg to S-Core

L-Weapon damage -> 25% dmg to XS-Core

 

M-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

M-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to M-Core

M-Weapon damage -> 75% dmg to S-Core

M-Weapon damage -> 50% dmg to XS-Core

 

S-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

S-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to M-Core

S-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to S-Core

S-Weapon damage -> 75% dmg to XS-Core

 

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to L-Core

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to M-Core

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to S-Core

XS-Weapon damage -> 100% dmg to XS-Core

 

 

Radar detection depending on the cross-section to the target , engines/brakes on or off, External material and speed.

Bonus: When active engines are pointing at the enemy, detection is even easier.

An L ship is supposed to be Endgame not the underdog. Balance the game needs more than just make current Meta class the worst performer. 

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I like the idea of all ranges being the same except for advanced rares and exotics, so we do not get again that situation we had with the infamous xs cube of death meta one had no chance to defend yourself with a bigger ship. I wish weapon sizes be scaled down to previous sizes so we do not have to redo Gunpods for all our ships. Like the Railguns are so big now that they take away all attention from the design of the ship. Shields sizes should also be scaled down and be core locked in my opinion because if you saw the size of the L shield it feels unnatural to fit it in a small frame like XS. For sure it won't be a Sci-Fi fighter look with that shield. For a small xs fighter is even the xs shield too big and limits the design. DU is about to have fun in building but the elements should be complementary and give you many options. I feel limited by these new changes in PvP because for the lack of the voxels life now we have to build really big and make huge blocks or else go the opposite as small as possible on a M, L frame like an element ship. This current Meta allowed L PvP ships not to be a Cube and had many shapes and we had fun building them.

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As mentioned above: 
 On 7/30/2021 at 10:01 AM, CptLoRes said:
You mean to say that during battle the crew on a large vessel would not try to fix the damage, and instead just sit apathetically and watch the damage accumulate?

Yes because you need to build a good vexel, All exterior elements must be accessible from the interior

I think having a skilled engineer on board should have this benefit. If I have a mechanic and spare parts, In battle, I would order them to repair / refit. what's the point of being able to carry spare parts if you can not deploy them? I do understand a need for skills to balance the speed of placement, maybe during combat.
Have a skill that governs this, faster mechanics could save your bacon !! This adds value to players on your ship that have taken an active interest in skills that indirectly influence the pvp outcome. Mechanics could be a part of your flight crew and charge for their services. Etc.

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51 minutes ago, SnoaKitten said:

As mentioned above: 
 On 7/30/2021 at 10:01 AM, CptLoRes said:
You mean to say that during battle the crew on a large vessel would not try to fix the damage, and instead just sit apathetically and watch the damage accumulate?

Yes because you need to build a good vexel, All exterior elements must be accessible from the interior

I think having a skilled engineer on board should have this benefit. If I have a mechanic and spare parts, In battle, I would order them to repair / refit. what's the point of being able to carry spare parts if you can not deploy them? I do understand a need for skills to balance the speed of placement, maybe during combat.
Have a skill that governs this, faster mechanics could save your bacon !! This adds value to players on your ship that have taken an active interest in skills that indirectly influence the pvp outcome. Mechanics could be a part of your flight crew and charge for their services. Etc.

 

Yeah, no. You should not be able to remove an entire engine during battle and replace it with a new one. Repairing on the fly is just fine, but your "skilled engineer" should be put to use after the battle (PvP timer) has expired.

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On 8/1/2021 at 1:50 PM, Musclethorpe said:

 

Yeah, no. You should not be able to remove an entire engine during battle and replace it with a new one. Repairing on the fly is just fine, but your "skilled engineer" should be put to use after the battle (PvP timer) has expired.

Explain to me why I shouldn't. I might be inclined to agree. but just saying no to say no, doesn't give a good argument.

 

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29 minutes ago, SnoaKitten said:

Explain to me why I shouldn't. I might be inclined to agree. but just saying no to say no, doesn't give a good argument.

 

It's a bit off topic but I agree. The thing you forget in this gameplay mechanic is that you need the engine with you in order to replace it. How many engines are you willing to risk bringing with you and take up valuable cargo space?

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20 minutes ago, TempestKitty said:

I like the idea of a repair system that you fit to ships, and then you just put scraps into system. It comes online when taking damage, and amount repaired and speed of repair still denoted by the type of scrap in the system. 

See, I can get on board with that too. I think its obnoxious and silly to sit there and do nothing though. No one in there right minds would do nothing at impending destruction.

 

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4 minutes ago, SnoaKitten said:

See, I can get on board with that too. I think its obnoxious and silly to sit there and do nothing though. No one in there right minds would do nothing at impending destruction.

 

I agree 100%!

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1 hour ago, Serula said:

It's a bit off topic but I agree. The thing you forget in this gameplay mechanic is that you need the engine with you in order to replace it. How many engines are you willing to risk bringing with you and take up valuable cargo space?

Mass costs thrust as well, the balance for this is already mostly in place. carrying spare medium and larger engines can incur large fuel costs for maneuvers. Protecting your cargo containers is also a consideration, spare engines don't do you any good if they are also scattered to the void of space cause you lost your cargo to the firefight.

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2 hours ago, SnoaKitten said:

Explain to me why I shouldn't. I might be inclined to agree. but just saying no to say no, doesn't give a good argument.

 

Build mode while in combat allows for all kinds of unintended silliness, not to mention effortless maneuvering around the outside of a ship in motion with practically no consequences. Furthermore it extends time-to-kill, which they were trying to reduce, and finally in the spirit of all things sci-fi completely "unrealistic" when it comes to the essence of space combat fantasy.

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13 hours ago, Musclethorpe said:

Build mode while in combat allows for all kinds of unintended silliness, not to mention effortless maneuvering around the outside of a ship in motion with practically no consequences. Furthermore it extends time-to-kill, which they were trying to reduce, and finally in the spirit of all things sci-fi completely "unrealistic" when it comes to the essence of space combat fantasy.

I disagree and here's why. We are wearing suits that infinite jet pack and are open masked in space(EDITED FOR CLARITY) The tech is even present for warp drives, Creating a tether whether conventional or not, is entirely in the realm of possibility with tech levels that are present in DU's universe already. Why can't we unbolt broken metal in a gun fight? I do understand what you are implying Time to construct destruction is too long. This is being addressed. 

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They didn't revamp pvp at all. They just changed the stats on the already existing pvp. 

 

PvP still requires no skill on the gunners part. The only part of pvp in DU that requires skill (still not much skill) is piloting to align tradjectories, but that only affects pirating (shooting unarmed haulers) since you don't need to try that hard to get near someone that is also trying to get near you.

 

PvP needs to be completely redone, not merely changing the stats on guns... As it stands, PvP is just a matter of who has the biggest most expensive ships. No skill in it at all!

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