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Poetic justice for schematic abusers


Dupont
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I believe the easiest, cleanest, and painless (for the innocent) way to deal with the "low cost" schematic debacle is to simply reverse the transactions from the market logs.

 

For everyone that purchased an affected schematic during the time when they were 1/100 of their normal price, simply subtract 99% of the normal price from their account. If the person still has that schematic, then they can sell it on the open market.

 

If they don't have the money in that account anymore due to money laundering, then it should be allowed to go negative so they can work off their greed.

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8 minutes ago, Dupont said:

I believe the easiest, cleanest, and painless (for the innocent) way to deal with the "low cost" schematic debacle is to simply reverse the transactions from the market logs.

 

For everyone that purchased an affected schematic during the time when they were 1/100 of their normal price, simply subtract the normal price from their account. If the person still has that schematic, then they can sell it on the open market.

 

If they don't have the money in that account anymore due to money laundering, then it should be allowed to go negative so they can work off their greed.

 

What about people who unwillingly bought this .... in that time I bought several schematics on different planets (which is how I am earning quanta right now) and I was absolutely NOT AWARE of all this going on --- I didn't even pay attention to the prices that much, just bought some on outer planets then flew back to Allioth and put them on sale, which is what I have done several times since the 0.23 patch.
Maybe I even did not buy any of the "cheap" ones - I don't know.

 

 

 

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Well then you will end up paying the same amount for that schematic as everyone else. If you really need it then keep it and use it.

 

If you purchased it for making illegal profit and laundered it at a discount then oh well. You either get to pay off the discount or stop using that account.

 

If you are truly in the business of buying and selling schematics then you should be aware of the prices. Your argument is kinda weak.

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There is no justice here.

 

People exploiting, using bugs, using mistakes of NQ with markets, insider info from ATV (my favorite) -- everything you can imagine. I do not know or heard if anyone was ever punished for something like this. But I know how well people doing with their ill-gotten assets. Some are not even making this secret, bragging with stuff openly.

 

In poetical way, you only punished if you for some reason play totaly honestly, "as intended" -- you less competetive and NQ can steal your hard-earned progress with something like 0.23. Or do wipe, when loss of control will be obvious.

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5 minutes ago, sHuRuLuNi said:

 

What about people who unwillingly bought this .... in that time I bought several schematics on different planets (which is how I am earning quanta right now) and I was absolutely NOT AWARE of all this going on --- I didn't even pay attention to the prices that much, just bought some on outer planets then flew back to Allioth and put them on sale, which is what I have done several times since the 0.23 patch.
Maybe I even did not buy any of the "cheap" ones - I don't know.

The chance of you buying by accident dozens of schematics in that particularly small timeframe without realising you were paying 1/100th of what you used to pay since 0.23 came out is really, really really really... ... really low.

 

Btw, a debt worth billions might be avoided by simply creating a fresh new account, you could abandon every construct you own and claim it back with your alt. Sure you'll lose months of talents but if the debt is too high it's easier to start from scratch, you'll eventually catch up again.

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7 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

People exploiting, using bugs, mistakes of NQ with markets, insider info from ATV (my favorite) -- everything you can imagine. I do not know or heard if anyone was ever punished for something like this. But I know how well people doing with their ill-gotten assets. Some are not even making this secret, bragging with stuff openly.

 

In poetical way, you only punished if you for some reason play totaly honestly, "as intended" -- you less competetive and NQ can steal your hard-earned progress with something like 0.23. Or do wipe, when loss of control will be obvious.

The so often mentioned "ATV-Insider Info exploits" that barely ever happened. 

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you shouldn't be asking NQ to be punishing the greedy. YOU should be the one punishing the greedy, this is an open world MMO that's supposed to be emergent and interconnected, you want justice, just wait till you can get it. (Because there currently are no systems in place to support emergent civilisation building)

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If NQ enacts poetic justice once in a while, it would go a long way towards people thinking twice about abusing an obvious exploit. Otherwise its a free-for-all and credibility of the game drops to near zero. 

 

Credibility of game integrity is very important for a game in which people decide to invest months of effort. 

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In the words of Forrest Gump "Sh*t happens" and the words of most catholic mems "Carry On".

Lesson of the day, you wasted X time thinking about something else and just as much posting.

Mind you, my play time is mine, mine along, who the heck should have shiz to give about wtf I'm doing, if I'm cheat or otherwise...

K, I'm done ratting, just sick of seeing sh*t posting on forms.

NQ should just make a dedicated rant area to consolidated this kind of feedback. Guaranteed someone's would be drunk while reading them though. Then move them from anywhere else.

 

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Just now, Haku0814 said:

Mind you, my play time is mine, mine along, who the heck should have shiz to give about wtf I'm doing, if I'm cheat or otherwise...

 

Perhaps a multiplayer game isn't for you then?

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21 minutes ago, vylqun said:

The so often mentioned "ATV-Insider Info exploits" that barely ever happened. 

You know that this is just the same as saying, indeed you are right? "Barely ever happened" is the exact same as "It happens just not so much"

 

Dont want to go into the "Barely 18"

 

Thank you for the confirmation that data/information from the ATV is used in actual Beta to profit.

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17 minutes ago, SpiceRub said:

you shouldn't be asking NQ to be punishing the greedy. YOU should be the one punishing the greedy, this is an open world MMO that's supposed to be emergent and interconnected, you want justice, just wait till you can get it. (Because there currently are no systems in place to support emergent civilisation building)

That makes absolutely no sense... 


I don't care if you feel they deserve it or not, but let's for argument say you wanted to punish them, then how, pray tell, would you go about punishing an anonymous person who purchased billions worth of 99% discount schematics?

I'll wait here...
 

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2 hours ago, vylqun said:

The so often mentioned "ATV-Insider Info exploits" that barely ever happened. 

Not true. 

 

1) Starting conditions of new world at Beta release were leaked. Not a big deal (on surface), but was used to some extent to grab best spots faster/figure out optimal rush strategy. I knew some details in advance.

2) 1st attempt to intdocude wrecks was (most likely) leaked, this why many most valuable things were found almost instantly. Yet, I have no solid proof on this one.

3) 2nd attempt to introduce wrecks (locations) was 100% leaked, this why NQ introduced silly "loot limit" to do at least some damage control without aborting whole event. I had leak about this in advance.

4) 0.23 patch principal info (90% accurate) was at least 10 days before in hands of many interested parties, who without delay started to use it for profit, bying things to sell after (I had this info too, via my "press channels", as all other). For some people such inside produced hundreds of millions of speculative money. 

 

This is only what humble me knows, likely its much more to this.

 

 

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From the NQ post on why we nead a anti-cheat system:

In short, If you make Rules, Act on Them, or do not bother to make them at all

 

What is authorized or forbidden

  • Modifying the game files is forbidden, (except for the "Game/data/lua" folder (this is the only location where you can add or modify files).
  • Modifying the game cache is forbidden (by default it is located in the directory C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\NQ\DualUniverse\) ;
  • Reading or modifying the game memory is forbidden.
  • Disabling, modifying, or attempting to evade the anti-cheat in any way is forbidden.
  • Playing at the same time with two or more accounts is authorized, but please note, that any form of automating multiple accounts is forbidden
  • Helping someone, or driving someone, to do forbidden actions is obviously forbidden too.
  • Discovering or knowing an issue, bug, or exploit and benefiting from it instead of reporting it to Novaquark is forbidden.
  • Sharing accounts between different people is forbidden. Any action performed on your account is the responsibility of its owner. The Customer Support team won’t be able to help regarding any issues happening due to account sharing. The owner is responsible for any action made with the account.
  • Trying to degrade the game performances of other players for any reason is forbidden.
  • Creating new Lua files for debugging purposes is authorized as long as these are new files imported from in game scripts. In this case, you should put the files in the Game\data\lua\ folder to be able to import them.
  • Using macro programs (like AutoHotKey) or similar hardware tools is authorized as long as you don’t automate gameplay. We consider gameplay as automated (and, thus, forbidden) when the macro or script:
    - Takes decisions based on game feedback
    - Executes actions for more than a few seconds
    - Executes without any user input or when not actively playing the game.
    For example, using a macro to keep a button pushed instead of maintaining it is authorized. But using a macro to send a message every hour is forbidden, especially if you are not even in front of your screen.

 

What happens to cheaters ?

  • Our policy is to not issue automatic bans. There is always a human review when the anti-cheat system detects any unauthorized behaviour. Nonetheless, you may temporarily be kicked out of the game if the anti-cheat cannot initialize correctly.
  • Sanctions include (at the discretion of the Novaquark team):
    Removing access to the game, temporarily or permanently (aka ban),

    - In case of recurring offenses, the player may get a hardware ban (in this case, the player won’t be able to play the game with any current or future account, even if those accounts were never used for cheating).
    - Plus any action required to revert any change made to the game world (removing Quantas or items, restoring constructs state, etc.).
    - This list is not exhaustive and may be updated by Novaquark as the team sees fit.
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15 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

You know that this is just the same as saying, indeed you are right? "Barely ever happened" is the exact same as "It happens just not so much"

 

Dont want to go into the "Barely 18"

 

Thank you for the confirmation that data/information from the ATV is used in actual Beta to profit.

Your reply shows ignorance. Ofc, i would be stupid to deny that it could happen. I dont know every member of ATV-Member so i can't say it never happened just because i didn't see anything of it. But you will always have a few ppl who exploit the good will of others, that doesn't make it a common occurance or anything that has significant impact, and it certainly doesn't mean you should just generalize your assumption for all ATV members.

3 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

2) 1st attempt to intdocude wrecks was (most likely leaked), this why many most valuable things were found almost instantly. Yet, I have no solid proof on this one.

3) 2nd attempt to introduce wrecks (locations) was 100% leaked, this why NQ introduced silly "loot limit" to do at least some damage control without aborting whole event. I had leak about this in advance.

4) 0.23 patch principal info (90% accurate) was at least 10 days before in hands of many interested parties, who without delay started to use it for profit, bying things to sell after (I had this info too, via my "press channels", as all other). For some people such inside produced hundreds of millions of speculative money. 

 

i can say for certain that no positions or similar were leaked in the ATV discord, if anything was leaked then in personal contacts which wouldn't require you to be ATV.

And as far as i remember it was said beforehand that schematics were coming, just not how expensive they would be, so anyone could figure out it will probably impact the economy and buy stuff before that. Ofc, ppl with access to the test server could be rather sure that it will impact the economy, which is also a reason why i said it barely ever happened and not it never happened. But in the end everyone who follows what NQ says in interviews etc. could make some assumptions about what was happening.

 

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34 minutes ago, Haku0814 said:

In the words of Forrest Gump "Sh*t happens" and the words of most catholic mems "Carry On".

Lesson of the day, you wasted X time thinking about something else and just as much posting.

Mind you, my play time is mine, mine along, who the heck should have shiz to give about wtf I'm doing, if I'm cheat or otherwise...

K, I'm done ratting, just sick of seeing sh*t posting on forms.

NQ should just make a dedicated rant area to consolidated this kind of feedback. Guaranteed someone's would be drunk while reading them though. Then move them from anywhere else.

 

 

You're actually (and I quote) "sh*t posting" (with an asterisk instead of the i in shit because maybe people won't be offended when you replace the i in the word shit with an asterisk) by complaining about people having opinions you don't...

You didn't even have to read this thread. It's not like it was in a digest that was forced down your throat by JC as a condition for playing the game. This is a *thread based* forum. Grow up and learn to choose what to read and what to ignore, ffs... 

 

LOL

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ignorance is bliss, we see that in the response to this issue.

Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups and i do believe nobody here thinks every ATV member does it, But it should not be possible at all.

Between every group of rightious players are a few rotten apples, and even some applepies. the point here is that if information is used for gains the NQ rule-set should be set in action and that does not happen. The only people i know that have been kicked from ATV all were critical to NQ or their data/account/database/login systems. I have not heared once about a kick due to missuse of information.

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5 minutes ago, Aaron Cain said:

Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups and i do believe nobody here thinks every ATV member does it, But it should not be possible at all.

 

And your solution would be what? Ban ATV from playing the game on the normal server? Forbid all interactions one week before a patch? Or rollback all accounts of ATV members each patch? I know it might sound quite absolute what i'm saying here, but i just want to point out that there is nothing you could do against assymetrical information, and i definitely don't expect NQ to publish all patch notes in advance, even tho it might be a good solution, it wont cover all information that test server players have access to.

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To answer your question:

just answer me then: what is NQ stand on cheaters, what is their defenition of one and do they act according to their policy? If using information gotten in ATV to profit in the real server is not classified as cheating then NQ should do nothing, If it was told previous to ATV players there would be consequenses, they should act.

 

But then why only throw critical people from ATV and not the people who use gotten information for personal gain? Only reason i can think of is that it is stated in the agreement that you may use the info but are not allowed to be critical or disclose issues.

 

I have been in alot of closed alphas but never have i seen one that still was active during beta with only a very small select group. normally there would be a test server where everyone interested Could test new things and a full disclosure on test server patchnotes was given, Or testing was done completely by the company itself and payed testers. In Dutch we would call this contraption Binding the Cat to the bacon.

 

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50 minutes ago, vylqun said:

And your solution would be what? Ban ATV from playing the game on the normal server? Forbid all interactions one week before a patch? Or rollback all accounts of ATV members each patch? I know it might sound quite absolute what i'm saying here, but i just want to point out that there is nothing you could do against assymetrical information, and i definitely don't expect NQ to publish all patch notes in advance, even tho it might be a good solution, it wont cover all information that test server players have access to.

That's exactly how they should behave, release informations before the patch and have a session of public test, you know, the things that usually happen in all mmos.

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2 hours ago, Fra119 said:

The chance of you buying by accident dozens of schematics in that particularly small timeframe without realising you were paying 1/100th of what you used to pay since 0.23 came out is really, really really really... ... really low.

 

Btw, a debt worth billions might be avoided by simply creating a fresh new account, you could abandon every construct you own and claim it back with your alt. Sure you'll lose months of talents but if the debt is too high it's easier to start from scratch, you'll eventually catch up again.

 

 

Well, I don't think I bought any of those then. All the ones I bought seemed to have normal prices (starting from a few million quanta). 

The remark that if I was really into buying and selling abd then I must have paid attention to the price is also not quite so. 

What I do is: say I look for a schematic, see that it costs 2 million, and is only available in Lacobus. Then I fly to Lacobus, buy 10 of those and put them on sale in Allioth for 2.5M each. 

 

I did not notice any schematic with "absurd" prices like 20.000 or so. 

 

Also I was busy finishing my Capital Ship (illyria, nice ship, check out the video) and in the meantime started building another one. 

 

This is why I said it is possible I bought some of those, but if you are saying the prices were 1/100th of the regular price, then nah, I don't think I even saw any. 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, vylqun said:

The so often mentioned "ATV-Insider Info exploits" that barely ever happened. 

 

So you mean that org buying up L core stock en-mass for no obvious reason  prior to 0.23 was just a co-incidence ;)

 

Seriously though, I would not want or be able to say it was ATV using insider info as we do not know if and when ATV was aware of the changes coming and it would not surprise me if NQ only involved ATV a week or two in advance at most but still.. someone somewhere was given inside info and it was used to pre-empt changes.

 

Someone did though.. and not for the first time

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Could be that the server load with the an insane amount of voxels is so large that also logging separate ID's for every item in the game is not done to save the server.

Could also be that NQ wanted a certain amount of high level items to be on a black market basis and have intentionally created the illegal trade avenue with this move.

just random thoughts.

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