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So, when is the game getting rolled back?


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1 hour ago, Burble said:

Umi, I'm sorry this has happened to you. I don't know how to fix it other than NQ gives you billions of quanta for recovery? But I don't think that would make you happy. If a rollback to before the mistake was really the only thing that would keep you playing then I vote for it, even if it would suck to lose a few days gaming. I would start from scratch on everything rather than kick out a person I would love to see enjoying the game.


 Having the riches you could have earnt with the warp beacons is not what would keep you playing. It was the goal of achieving it that kept you playing. It was in fact the grind towards an amazingly difficult goal that kept you interested, not the eventual quanta you might have earned now and then.

I would love to help, if there is anything you can think of. I certainly think NQ should pay for their cock up to players in your position.

 

Exactly, i was not doing to it for the quanta , i could have and been making more thru other means, i took it as a challenge to build ,most expensive schematic wise,  warp beacon production line  as a solo player, to achieve something similar to what you have done.

 

Im not a builder, so could not build an amazing racing track, or good looking ship(s), went for something im good at, which is being merchant/crafter.

 

To get me back to playing rollback would be sufficient, not the free quanta or schematics as compensation. What is the point having those , when everyone else has them too, in a game , where we are encouraged to specialize.

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After this mornings huge screwup and bot prices were reduced 100x, I've seen screenshots of 10s of billions in schematics, and have heard of people who bought items at the bugged prices and resold to

The only thing that saves this burning dumpster fire besides removing all ill gotten schematics or a rollback is to flat come out now and say there will be a full wipe before release. Seriously NQ, yo

Why is this such a hard thing to fix?  Just find those purchases in the database, refund the money to the player, and remove the schematics.  It might be too late by now, players may have already made

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DU  you have to do something.   Why does the player who works his ass off to get 80 mill in his wallet in 2 months get blown past by some player who now sits on BILLIONS for no work.  Are you saying all the hard work players do to earn money matters for nothing.  Hard work doesn't get you money. Being online when DU screws up and doesn't punish it or rollback the server gets you money.   If you do nothing your saying your hardwork doesn't matter and the lucky few who cashed in on this isn't a big problem.    If you wipe  you lose a major portion of the players.   If you do nothing you will lose a portion of the players and your reputation will be again stained  (3rd time btw)  but if you check the logs and see who bought stuff in that timeframe you retain both.  Do the right thing.

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Why is this such a hard thing to fix?  Just find those purchases in the database, refund the money to the player, and remove the schematics.  It might be too late by now, players may have already made millions selling them off.  But if they REALLY cared about the economy as much as they say they do, they could find out who bought one and reverse that purchase as well.

 

IDK, probably too late.  What a cluster****.

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The only thing that saves this burning dumpster fire besides removing all ill gotten schematics or a rollback is to flat come out now and say there will be a full wipe before release. Seriously NQ, you need to own this one way or the other. Either tell us all it doesn't matter cause it's all getting nuked downed the road anyway, or act like professionals and fix it.

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If they were smart, then every schematic purchased would have a timestamp and ID of the purchase event. That way it would be very easy to pick out a window of time that a schematic has changed hands. I can't imagine that anyone would try to implement an economy that is so important to the game without double-entry bookkeeping.

 

Any database developer that knows SQL could have identified the faulty transactions with an hour or two of labor. Really, there is no excuse not to invalidate those transactions or drop a negative balance on those accounts if the money is gone.

 

No need for a rollback. Just a few hours of following the money trail. Seems like that would be worth keeping the trust of many players, wouldn't you say? 

 

At least tell us which schematics and how many were purchased for almost free so the poor fools that are industrialists won't spend the money on those. Tell us which elements are tainted so we don't end up competing against somebody that has 100x more industrial capacity to build them. Or just take those schematics off the market. Do something!

 

I just spent the last two hours watching videos of upcoming space MMO's for 2021 on youtube. The DU concept still could have the best future, now if NQ could only stop screwing up..

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4 hours ago, Dupont said:

I can't imagine that anyone would try to implement an economy that is so important to the game without double-entry bookkeeping.

Probably exactly the case. Every time something like this happens (quite often), NQ completly impotent to do any smart (or even stupid) tracing, instead saying like, oh this is not BIG DEAL, we just allow everyone to keep billions made of thin air by our mistakes.

 

But yeah, its in way suicidal, because in such games healthy economy is everything.

 

For years I worked in MC servers administations, players probably totaly lynched us for something like this one. Once something like this happened, we always rolled back, despite some builders crying of wasted work (because they re-build it anyway, after some whining, but mucked up economy is forever).

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Dhara said:

Why is this such a hard thing to fix? 

 

Ok don't take this too seriously but a guildmate a while back provided a possibly answer as to why NQ has NOT ever in any way rolled back to "previous backups"........they simply can't.  Because more than once it would have Made WAAAAAY more sense to rollback a day or a few hours in order to fix a humongous issue caused by a hotfix/patch.  There is a mind boggling amount of data going back and forth between the client and servers, hourly.   A "complete backup" of all game data and player data may simply not exist.  The game itself at current patch, sure.  But all the player data and state of the universe.  Possibly not.

 

NQ may simply not be able to do it.  At least not yet.  They can obviously track and make changes to market trades, as we got a refund on schematics.  So they could probably nix all the schematics bought for certain ticket items at a time.  A reverse of what they did last time with the schematics price drop and refund.  But they would have done so by now, and they havent.  Which is worrisome into itself.

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51 minutes ago, Revelcro said:

NQ may simply not be able to do it.

 

If they can't correct the fallout from a blunder like this, their core game design in the backend is just plain bad. Sure, you can't expect NQ to accommodate for any possible thing to go wrong, but in a game where the economy is so important and where you as a company actively try and shape the game to cater to the economy you have to account for a possible mistake like this.

 

This should be no more than a database query to see who bought items in the time the prices were off and see whether these same players sold any items they bought during that time since then and undo all of that. If NQ does not have the ability to track these transactions then their database design is just wrong and not suited for purpose.

 

If they did their homework, this would be a very easy thing to fix in place without having to do any major surgery. The fact they have not done so yet an actually never have indicates to me that unfortunately they have not thought this through well enough and are limited by a bad database design,  which frankly would not surprise me at all. That they show no sign of ownership in this and seem oblivious to the fact they need to change this is an even bigger concern and it also asks the question what else did they not do to be able to properly manage the game.

 

NQ is making the game up as they go it seems, without an actual structured plan, just a broad outline.

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Maybe they can't go past the market transaction. I mean, they probably have a log of what's being sold/bought on the market, but after that they are blind.

So to avoid what happened back when they reduced the price of the schematics they just leave things as they are.

 

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17 hours ago, Burble said:

The funny part is that almost the entire playerbase (that does not frequent these welcoming and positive energy filled forums) don't even know what happened thus enabling them to keep enjoying the game just the same as before.

 

Back in the pre-alpha days the forums used to be very positive. Almost to much so, with hardly anyone asking hard questions or wanting to face certain facts. The overall negative vibe we have today is the fault of NQ, and nobody else.

 

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16 hours ago, Lethys said:

What did they do? Kick me from ATV , which is pointless anyway because of inactivity. wanted to leave after I asked a question  after ONE YEAR they still responded with: "it will be amazing. Just wait a bit more". and since I was one of the few hard critics there anyway, it seemed convenient to kick me.

And on the topic of overly positive forums. I do remember noticing back then how NQ had a tendency to only invite vocal YES people to the ATV, and thinking to myself how such a skewed view would not lead to productive and realistic testing.

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

If that is the case, the game backend is simply designed badly. See my comment above yours.

I'm with you in this. 

Remember how they handled the refunds for the first wave of schematics, I see 2 possibilities there, either there is something NQ can't physically track or they do not have the manpower (or the will) to go through every single line of log and fix the mistakes.

 

Also, someone stated there's no id on items, so I wonder how are they handling dupes?

I mean duping is fairly common in mmo, how can they prevent or react to duping if they can't check if 2 items have the same id?

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NQ were quick to react to the mistake once it was noticed, fixing the markets.  (Suggestion: a way for NQ to freeze markets ingame when necessary to deal with such situations, or flag movement of items from market for later review?)

 

Taking a whole day to consider the action to be taken is reasonable.  Deciding on do nothing is, as I and I presume most of the playerbase would agree, not.

 

Have NQ looked at any game data on the purchases made whilst the error was live?  I would hope that was part of their decision making process.  How many schematics and other items were snapped up by players?

 

We understand this is a beta.  That there will be bugs, glitches, mistakes, going forward til proper release (and after.)  Not dealing with issues like this in the early game phase for a game many hope to play for years does not present a good image.  Please NQ, resolve this issue neatly.

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1 hour ago, Aaron Cain said:

NQ Please sent us a "we hear you" Topic on this!!!

 

Problem with NQ is that they may hear us, but they are not listening and never really have.

Their focus has already shifted to the next patch and fixing the many broken mechanics (hardly anything in game actually works properly) is just a distraction from progress.

 

Meanwhile the 10 ton truck carrying the reality check and technical debt is catching up and eventually NQ will be the proverbial deer staring at the headlights just before it gets run over.

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3 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

And on the topic of overly positive forums. I do remember noticing back then how NQ had a tendency to only invite vocal YES people to the ATV, and thinking to myself how such a skewed view would not lead to productive and realistic testing.

ATV is mixed bag -- its obviously vetted, with idea to gather more "positive" (or at least -- on public) and "menageble" people. Some are... servile fanboys (to put it very mildly), but lot of decent smart folk too, who know game I think better then devs sometimes. Yet, irony, that NQ not even use this feedback to effective degree.

2 hours ago, Fra119 said:

I mean duping is fairly common in mmo, how can they prevent or react to duping if they can't check if 2 items have the same id?

I think its rabbit hole of sort, when you know less -- sleep better. As far as I know (and seen in private demonstrations), people have immense riches on hands from glitches and endless chain of NQ's muck ups going up to Beta start. At this point I feel myself complete idiot for doing some honest work in game, grinding mere cents, while some guy I know just pulled billion from thin air. This whole situation feels unsustainable for really long-term game.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

I think its rabbit hole of sort, when you know less -- sleep better. As far as I know (and seen in private demonstrations), people have immense riches on hands from glitches and endless chain of NQ's muck ups going up to Beta start. At this point I feel myself complete idiot for doing some honest work in game, grinding mere cents, while some guy I know just pulled billion from thin air. This whole situation feels unsustainable for really long-term game.

 

 

I bet I would quit after a week if I had this many money, ofc I would first please the whole community with a full scale replica of the tengen toppa gurren lagann :v

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I put the voxel in the wrong place, nqpleasewipeimmediately...

12 hours ago, qwertyboom said:

but if you check the logs and see who bought stuff in that timeframe you retain both.  Do the right thing.

This is the only good solution. Wipe is not and never will be

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2 hours ago, Stormar said:

NQ were quick to react to the mistake once it was noticed, fixing the markets.  (Suggestion: a way for NQ to freeze markets ingame when necessary to deal with such situations, or flag movement of items from market for later review?)

 

Taking a whole day to consider the action to be taken is reasonable.  Deciding on do nothing is, as I and I presume most of the playerbase would agree, not.

 

Have NQ looked at any game data on the purchases made whilst the error was live?  I would hope that was part of their decision making process.  How many schematics and other items were snapped up by players?

 

We understand this is a beta.  That there will be bugs, glitches, mistakes, going forward til proper release (and after.)  Not dealing with issues like this in the early game phase for a game many hope to play for years does not present a good image.  Please NQ, resolve this issue neatly.

 

If they are not planning a full wipe then this is not beta it's release. If they plan to leave all of these exploited stuff in the game forever letting the exploiters who are certainly your champions of 'no wipe' have their way just imagine TW's. This won't be the last screw up on NQ's part while changing all these fundamental systems. Something like putting a single schematic in the game can biff up and change the price of all schematics? Just imagine the complete disasters that will happen when people lose entire bases to PvP flags going wrong , or weapon exploits etc.

 

The only answer if they can't reverse this by going backwards on the transactions or a rollback is to say for certain there will be a full wipe before release. No magic BP's to keep your exploited this or thats, skills maybe , but nothing else , a full and proper wipe end of beta. Do that and no one cares anymore what they botch up along the way because it's all ethereal anyway.

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Indeed, and nobody will pay for playing Beta, and all players frustrated now will also stop playing beta, leaving only the few who always get the frackup news about 1 hr prior to it happening in their mailbox so they can get their ships ready to exploit.

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2 hours ago, Aaron Cain said:

Indeed, and nobody will pay for playing Beta, and all players frustrated now will also stop playing beta, leaving only the few who always get the frackup news about 1 hr prior to it happening in their mailbox so they can get their ships ready to exploit.

That's why noone will ever tell you about the wipe, and they will enforce their statement of "no wipe unless necessary" to keep you playing (and paying).

But it will come, we know, you know, NQ knows, stop pretending you don't see it.

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21 minutes ago, Fra119 said:

That's why noone will ever tell you about the wipe, and they will enforce their statement of "no wipe unless necessary" to keep you playing (and paying).

But it will come, we know, you know, NQ knows, stop pretending you don't see it.

Assuming they stay funded till release, which I doubt they will.

I stand by my F2P with MTX or shut down forecast lol.

 

Unless we got the SC mega whales that will bankroll NQ, that is always a possibility these days, NQ needa get their Visual Design guy fired up to pump out JPEGs and JC needa start promising jesus tech that will never come every quarter, instant cashflow.

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