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DevBlog: The Maneuver Tool and Disconnecting Ships - DUscussion thread

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11 hours ago, Pleione said:

Use your space brakes until you have zero motion.  I do it all the time, parking my L core ship outside of the build zone of the space station so I don't accidently scoop up smaller ships docked there.

Thanks  ...... but ..... I'm going to assume you never built a space station within a planets gravity.

I built 1.2SU from Alioth.  We can come to a complete stop but gravity will just pull the ship down as soon as you get out to place the core

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27 minutes ago, Underhook said:

Thanks  ...... but ..... I'm going to assume you never built a space station within a planets gravity.

I built 1.2SU from Alioth.  We can come to a complete stop but gravity will just pull the ship down as soon as you get out to place the core

You are correct.  I always build my stations in zero G space.

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Honestly I dont know why NQ just doesnt make the maneuver tool based on weight rather then neutering it into oblivion. If you could still move ships as they are now but make it weight based it would still be useable but you would have to baby it with larger cores to move it at the same distance we have now.

 

Like if you are trying to move a ship that is fully loaded with ore it should act much differently then an empty ship and also different from a small ship vs L core ships.

 

There are a myriad of uses for this tool and all of them are completely necessary

 

I dont know how many times we parked our ship on a flat surface with all landing gear planted flat and for whatever reason the ship tries to fall off the ledge and we had to catch it with the maneuver tool. If I could only move a M/L core 50m this would become impossible to both catch a ship and to put it back onto the surface plane. The one time we didnt catch it the whole thing blew up even falling a small distance. I dont want to be punished for that when it should not happen yet it happens semi frequently.

 

The other aspect of this is that now if you go anywhere off world 75% of the surface of most planets are either extremely hilly or mountainous if they arent swiss cheesed out from mining. With this system you could only land in pure flat valleys and no longer land on 75-80% of surfaces. If youi cant lock your ship into an artifical hover it tends to slide. And if it slides long enough or bumps into something as its momentum goes you will take damage or worse potentially have items destroyed for no reason on top of the loss of the maneuver tool.

 

And if you cant get within the max of like 2km of 75% of the surfaces with mines going down 500+m on top of that how are we supposed to mine everything if your ship is sliding or you have to spend a rediculous amount of time teraforming everything just so you can mine there. It just seems like a huge time sink for no reason.

 

Or if we are doomed to suffer the stupid 50m bs we should be able to walk while using the tool and maneuver it in the 50m limit I would be ok with that.

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29 minutes ago, Warlander said:

 

 

Or if we are doomed to suffer the stupid 50m bs we should be able to walk while using the tool and maneuver it in the 50m limit I would be ok with that.

They are changing to to 128m range. Dev posted that on page 9.

 

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6 hours ago, NQ-Naunet said:

Happy Friday, Noveans!

I'm coming to you with a few more answers/clarifications for your reading pleasure. :) I really appreciated everyone's patience while I rode the merry-go-round of feedback handling.

 

Alright, let's dive in!
 

To start, I think it's prudent to address the question of "why did you make a tool change without fixing [insert bug description here] first?"

  • As predictable/banal as this may sound to some, it's worth saying; while we are forever working hard to fix *all* current bugs, certain issues will be looked at before others. We deeply respect your opinions about our priorities (NQ is especially fortunate to have a community full of game-dev-savvy people), but we simply won't be able to please everyone no matter what direction we take. We ask that you continue to trust in the internal knowledge we have (combined with your feedback) when it comes to bug fixes paralleling feature development and/or changes.

Alt+F4:

  • As many of you are relieved to see, we fixed a longstanding limitation to the feeling of continuity in DU; quitting the game should never stop a ship! The recent changes we've made ensure that as soon as any player sees a construct, that construct will remain visible to everyone in the vicinity. So, using Alt+F4 during a fight will no longer 'freeze' your ship. Instead, she'll still be simulated for any other player who is still there. (And if nobody is around you, you won't have to worry about a thing!)
  • By making this change, we hope to prevent players from "gaming the system" using Alt+F4.
  • Of course, we'll be keeping a close eye on your feedback and will rebalance things accordingly to make sure this gameplay pillar keeps retains its depth!

Regarding the 50m restriction:

  • Based on feedback from all of you, this has been increased to 128m, which is the size of the largest build zone!

As for concerns about moving unwanted constructs from player-owned tiles go (@casegard):

  • We've seen some solid points raised about how the maneuver tool was being used to clear away constructs - the scenario quoted above being a great example. We're currently thinking hard about a viable solution for this!

AGG:

  •  As mentioned previously in this thread, the intended meta for AGG will reveal itself in 'atmo PvP'. We acknowledge that it currently functions as a temporary solution for hauling heavy loads from the ground into space, and that players like to leave their ships hovering above their base. We will consider formally implementing an “anchoring” at high altitude feature in the future! :) 

I sincerely hope this has been helpful to everyone, but please continue to deliver your (welcome) feedback here.

Have an excellent weekend!!




 

 

So if 128m is the base do you have any preliminary figures on what talents for the maneuver tool will add onto the max distance?

 

With current Talent numbers would equal out to 192m with the base which seems both odd but also that it really does not add much if anything to the max. Is there going to be a rework to the talent or is the 64m added through the 50% increase by T5 maneuver tool talent going to remain the same.

 

Is it also possible to get those talent points back as a refund since it is now really a broken tool? Had I known this was coming I wouldnt have put points into it.

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17 hours ago, NQ-Naunet said:

As many of you are relieved to see, we fixed a longstanding limitation to the feeling of continuity in DU; quitting the game should never stop a ship! The recent changes we've made ensure that as soon as any player sees a construct, that construct will remain visible to everyone in the vicinity. So, using Alt+F4 during a fight will no longer 'freeze' your ship. Instead, she'll still be simulated for any other player who is still there. (And if nobody is around you, you won't have to worry about a thing!)

 

Very bad way to implement this in my opinion. It should be so ONLY in space pvp. Distance in planet atmosphere should be much less. I'd say it should be the build zone of the core and only if someone with move tool or pilot rights is within it. If you load a ship in atmosphere and the game crashes in a populated zone like near a marketplace (happens regularly by the way), at least one person is bound to be in range of seeing your ship and it will crash.

 

+There are gonna be those people that will fly close to a disconnected ship so that it crashes on purpsose for a laugh.

 

A mechanic like magnetism or tow beams that lets a ship pull another ship from a distance to stop ships in pvp would be a great idea. It could also be used for towing or slowing something down in general. Would be a fine gameplay addition to resque ships/organizations. 

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13 hours ago, Emptiness said:

Why do some people have the game crash so often, and others almost never? I've been playing off and on since Sept 12th and I've had maybe 3 or 4 crashes in total. Same for random disconnects.

It depends heavily on where you are in the game, on your hardware and you internet. Plus it also happens randomly regardless. If you live at a planet/area with low population, you won't notice it as much. Come to my large alioth base which is near an organization tile and tell me again that everything is fine. My 1070Ti can barely handle it. Each time i fly a short trip and return to my base i have to restart the game because when i look to the direction of the org i get 5 fps. If your graphics card has anything less than 8 gigs you cant play there period. if it has less that 11 gigs you cant play in 1440p resolution. My system besides my graphics card is a beast and my internet is fast and stable, still the game crashes 1-2 times a day. Does this sound stable to you?

 

@NQ-Naunet I know that the graphics settings are locked high for testing purposes but you might want to reconsider and let us dip them a bit. Soon i'll be needing a new graphics card to play at my base.

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Echo'ing some of the concerns here - Unintentional disconnects and one of the updates suggested will cause problkems.

I have a decent PC, a decent connection to the internet, and have only suffered 3 forced disconnects.  ONE was my fault forgetting about upcoming maintenance, but the other two were random - I suffer far fewer of these than other players.  However, In those instances, I was landing from high altitude.  Allowing a ship to continue on its path without a pilot in place will likely end up in 1 of 2 scenarios

1) the ship hits the ground - Probably destroyed.

2) If piloting in space, the ship hurtles into space - possibly lost

 

Is it possible to detect the alt-f4 (or similar) abuse and differentiate it from an unintentional disconnect?
if not, there will likely be more players unhappy with the game due to loss of ship (which = time, effort, imagination, graft....) through no fault of their own.

 

If its a priority call, I would welcome stability and performance over... say... Scavenger hunts.

 

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40 minutes ago, Rimezx said:

Very bad way to implement this in my opinion. It should be so ONLY in space pvp. Distance in planet atmosphere should be much less. I'd say it should be the build zone of the core and only if someone with move tool or pilot rights is within it. If you load a ship in atmosphere and the game crashes in a populated zone like near a marketplace (happens regularly by the way), at least one person is bound to be in range of seeing your ship and it will crash.

 

+There are gonna be those people that will fly close to a disconnected ship so that it crashes on purpsose for a laugh.

Yeah I always land about 1-2km away and walk my ship into container range with the maneuver tool so I can sell things or I get 0fps and come out of it comepletely destroyed. I built my computer this feb and I dropped $2k on it and it still barely runs this game unless nobody is around.

 

There have been times where I fly to the market and crash, repair, crash again, collect rocks since you cant mine within a 15km radious of the marker, repair, mid air collision, gather/repair, then run out of gas on the way back and crash 30+km from my base. The new markets dow help but it is only a matter of time before they get cluttered up with random shit and abandoned ships too and the process continues.

 

But I fully agree that within your own territory and not just your cores should still allow for maneuver tool hover lock as it is now. Or everywhere but space.

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Honestly the maneuver tool nerf wouldnt be such a big deal if docking was not an absolute train wreck.  Patching log-breaking is not a big deal and I could use a bit of adrenaline while flying.  But docking my ships several times a day is already a horror show and this patch will just make it worse.

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I 100% agree with these changes, that are necessary to make the world more believable and add consequences to messing up at high speed.

However I am concerned about 2 bug that would make these change extremely problematic currently :

1) When in a ship travelling at fast speed but not in a seat, the elements have the tendency to flicker or even disappear.

When the pilot seat disappear due to this bug, you can no longer take back control of your ship, so the only way to stop is to log off.

2) When jumping out of an Anti-Grav ship (anti-grav ON, ship immobile, above 1000m), the anti-grav sometime decide to stop working and the ship falls.

This bug seems a bit random, maybe linked to the presence of other players nearby.

Since my anti-grav ship is not meant to go bellow 1000m and have no way to climb back on it's own, my only way to get it back up is the use of the maneuver tool.

Due to this bug I systematically force-respawn to "freeze" my ship before jumping off.

 

So until both of these issues are addressed I think these changes must be postponed.

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5 hours ago, zerofg said:

I 100% agree with these changes, that are necessary to make the world more believable and add consequences to messing up at high speed.

However I am concerned about 2 bug that would make these change extremely problematic currently :

1) When in a ship travelling at fast speed but not in a seat, the elements have the tendency to flicker or even disappear.

When the pilot seat disappear due to this bug, you can no longer take back control of your ship, so the only way to stop is to log off.

2) When jumping out of an Anti-Grav ship (anti-grav ON, ship immobile, above 1000m), the anti-grav sometime decide to stop working and the ship falls.

This bug seems a bit random, maybe linked to the presence of other players nearby.

Since my anti-grav ship is not meant to go bellow 1000m and have no way to climb back on it's own, my only way to get it back up is the use of the maneuver tool.

Due to this bug I systematically force-respawn to "freeze" my ship before jumping off.

 

So until both of these issues are addressed I think these changes must be postponed.

 I dont need an exact replica of reality to make sense. After all its supposed to be sci-fi in like the year 9000ish yet we are bickering over reality as we can comprehend in the year 2020. And still we have just the slighest of sci-fi elements we pretty much arent allowed to use like warp drives or light speed, or plasma, nuclear, fusion, anything lol.

 

We have anti gravity yet we shouldnt be able to move a ship? Wtf is that lol.

We have a tool but no mounted version that can do more? Wtf is up with that?

We have flight scripts with anti grav lock and yet we punish everyone who isnt using it? Wtf is up with that too?

 

I can keep going but you get the point. It does not need to be an exact replica simulation of the 20th century. We have futuristic weapons and yet we are flying around with fossil fuels yet trying to nerf the hell out of any of the sci-fi elements because someone might actually use them? Solid plan...

 

Either we embrace the Sci-fi aspects of this game or it needs to all be nerfed across the board including Pvp. We supposedly can build arc ships and yet somehow we made it to another galaxy/solar system on just elbow grease, a bunch of fossil fuels, and more warp cells then an arc ship can hold? lol yeah right when you can barely get to other planets and back and still carry frieght?

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On 11/25/2020 at 10:00 PM, GraXXoR said:

You’re new around here... so you might want to take a rain check on the unbridled umbrage on display there... Physics on the other hand knows the game very well and more importantly knows how NQ goes about fixing bugs (or not... which is the problem). 
 

So how about taking a bit of a chill pill and try to read a bit more closely before shooting from the hip?

"new around here.." LOL!!! 😂🤣  . Give it a rest. It doesn't matter who you are , using privileges to get ahead of everyone else on the forum as rude. The only shooting at the hip is someone like you trying to establish a right to speak before someone else and that's not what we're here for. So.. you can at ease with that chill pill stuff and stop offering people to use drugs to resolve to an answer. 

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5 minutes ago, theshockcabletv said:

Calm down kid. It doesn't matter who you are , using privileges to get ahead of everyone else on the forum as rude. The only shooting at the hip is someone like you trying to establish a right to speak before someone else and that's not what we're here for. So.. you can at ease with that chill pill stuff and stop offering people to use drugs to resolve to an answer. 

You might want to re-read physics original post. Nowhere does he mention his personal community. Hes saying "our community" in reference to the DU community from the perspective of NQ. 

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5 minutes ago, Noddles said:

You might want to re-read physics original post. Nowhere does he mention his personal community. Hes saying "our community" in reference to the DU community from the perspective of NQ. 

You're not understanding I don't care who this guy is . At the time I wrote my reply he was asking for a forum section dedicated to community leaders. He may have changed the wording, rewrote the post. Yet the message was that he wanted a separate post that way "community leaders" could list the problems their community gives.  I don't think that should be a thing.

 

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On 11/28/2020 at 12:46 AM, NQ-Naunet said:

Happy Friday, Noveans!

I'm coming to you with a few more answers/clarifications for your reading pleasure. :) I really appreciated everyone's patience while I rode the merry-go-round of feedback handling.

 

Alright, let's dive in!
 

To start, I think it's prudent to address the question of "why did you make a tool change without fixing [insert bug description here] first?"

  • As predictable/banal as this may sound to some, it's worth saying; while we are forever working hard to fix *all* current bugs, certain issues will be looked at before others. We deeply respect your opinions about our priorities (NQ is especially fortunate to have a community full of game-dev-savvy people), but we simply won't be able to please everyone no matter what direction we take. We ask that you continue to trust in the internal knowledge we have (combined with your feedback) when it comes to bug fixes paralleling feature development and/or changes.

Alt+F4:

  • As many of you are relieved to see, we fixed a longstanding limitation to the feeling of continuity in DU; quitting the game should never stop a ship! The recent changes we've made ensure that as soon as any player sees a construct, that construct will remain visible to everyone in the vicinity. So, using Alt+F4 during a fight will no longer 'freeze' your ship. Instead, she'll still be simulated for any other player who is still there. (And if nobody is around you, you won't have to worry about a thing!)
  • By making this change, we hope to prevent players from "gaming the system" using Alt+F4.
  • Of course, we'll be keeping a close eye on your feedback and will rebalance things accordingly to make sure this gameplay pillar keeps retains its depth!

Regarding the 50m restriction:

  • Based on feedback from all of you, this has been increased to 128m, which is the size of the largest build zone!

As for concerns about moving unwanted constructs from player-owned tiles go (@casegard):

  • We've seen some solid points raised about how the maneuver tool was being used to clear away constructs - the scenario quoted above being a great example. We're currently thinking hard about a viable solution for this!

AGG:

  •  As mentioned previously in this thread, the intended meta for AGG will reveal itself in 'atmo PvP'. We acknowledge that it currently functions as a temporary solution for hauling heavy loads from the ground into space, and that players like to leave their ships hovering above their base. We will consider formally implementing an “anchoring” at high altitude feature in the future! :) 

I sincerely hope this has been helpful to everyone, but please continue to deliver your (welcome) feedback here.

Have an excellent weekend!!




 

AGG in atmo pvp?. That will last a week, where combat hungry pirates, gankers , pvp orgs will swipe all planets destroying every ship belonging to solo players, small less active orgs causing them to retreat to safe zone , leaving only large active orgs .

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On 11/27/2020 at 5:46 PM, NQ-Naunet said:

Happy Friday, Noveans!

I'm coming to you with a few more answers/clarifications for your reading pleasure. :) I really appreciated everyone's patience while I rode the merry-go-round of feedback handling.

 

Alright, let's dive in!
 

To start, I think it's prudent to address the question of "why did you make a tool change without fixing [insert bug description here] first?"

  • As predictable/banal as this may sound to some, it's worth saying; while we are forever working hard to fix *all* current bugs, certain issues will be looked at before others. We deeply respect your opinions about our priorities (NQ is especially fortunate to have a community full of game-dev-savvy people), but we simply won't be able to please everyone no matter what direction we take. We ask that you continue to trust in the internal knowledge we have (combined with your feedback) when it comes to bug fixes paralleling feature development and/or changes.

Alt+F4:

  • As many of you are relieved to see, we fixed a longstanding limitation to the feeling of continuity in DU; quitting the game should never stop a ship! The recent changes we've made ensure that as soon as any player sees a construct, that construct will remain visible to everyone in the vicinity. So, using Alt+F4 during a fight will no longer 'freeze' your ship. Instead, she'll still be simulated for any other player who is still there. (And if nobody is around you, you won't have to worry about a thing!)
  • By making this change, we hope to prevent players from "gaming the system" using Alt+F4.
  • Of course, we'll be keeping a close eye on your feedback and will rebalance things accordingly to make sure this gameplay pillar keeps retains its depth!

Regarding the 50m restriction:

  • Based on feedback from all of you, this has been increased to 128m, which is the size of the largest build zone!

As for concerns about moving unwanted constructs from player-owned tiles go (@casegard):

  • We've seen some solid points raised about how the maneuver tool was being used to clear away constructs - the scenario quoted above being a great example. We're currently thinking hard about a viable solution for this!

AGG:

  •  As mentioned previously in this thread, the intended meta for AGG will reveal itself in 'atmo PvP'. We acknowledge that it currently functions as a temporary solution for hauling heavy loads from the ground into space, and that players like to leave their ships hovering above their base. We will consider formally implementing an “anchoring” at high altitude feature in the future! :) 

I sincerely hope this has been helpful to everyone, but please continue to deliver your (welcome) feedback here.

Have an excellent weekend!!




 

NQ ,

 

You are still not addressing the CURRENT issues and why the ALT+ F4 is used.

 

MANY OF US, are not "relieved to see, we fixed a longstanding limitation to the feeling of continuity in DU"  because this does not address the problem,

many of us face in game.

 

Alt+F4 is to combat the continual unresponsive gameplay, that happens at populated locations such as ANY market location on Allioth. 

 

If you want persistence of  gameplay , you need to address the game quality.

You need to be able to play the game without  your ship just randomly not responding.

 

"if nobody is around you, you won't have to worry about a thing!"

 

You're basically telling EVERY person that gets their ship destroyed near a market place due to your game not responding ,

"oh you don't matter someone was near you."

 

Not every one pvps  alt+ f4 our only way is to fix the dsyncs and lag making your ship become unresponsive.

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7 minutes ago, theshockcabletv said:

NQ ,

 

You are still not addressing the CURRENT issues and why the ALT+ F4 is used.

 

MANY OF US, are not "relieved to see, we fixed a longstanding limitation to the feeling of continuity in DU"  because this does not address the problem,

many of us face in game.

 

Alt+F4 is to combat the continual unresponsive gameplay, that happens at populated locations such as ANY market location on Allioth. 

 

If you want persistence of  gameplay , you need to address the game quality.

You need to be able to play the game without  your ship just randomly not responding.

 

"if nobody is around you, you won't have to worry about a thing!"

 

You're basically telling EVERY person that gets their ship destroyed near a market place due to your game not responding ,

"oh you don't matter someone was near you."

 

Not every one pvps  alt+ f4 our only way is to fix the dsyncs and lag making your ship become unresponsive.

Please provide your system specs.

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This post is related to the economy and the state of the game in general.   It seems we are lacking imagination or maybe some technical limitations I don't know about here.    what are your thoughts ? 

 

1. Make a new solar system.   "with some different rules"   no safe zones  territory warfare.....  

2. In this new solar system warp does not work  until we get some upgrade module for that solar system.  

3. A race of alien's inhabit this system or parts of it that have recopies or technology upgrades that you can limit how many of them are in game.   

 

 

This would encourage people to go out and fight them for Loot and encourage PVP to control that area of space.   It would also make it so that you can leave the original solar system alone as new players will need a way to get themselves off the ground while Not making the game completely ridiculous.   

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5 minutes ago, Fembot68 said:

This post is related to the economy and the state of the game in general.   It seems we are lacking imagination or maybe some technical limitations I don't know about here.    what are your thoughts ? 

 

1. Make a new solar system.   "with some different rules"   no safe zones  territory warfare.....  

2. In this new solar system warp does not work  until we get some upgrade module for that solar system.  

3. A race of alien's inhabit this system or parts of it that have recopies or technology upgrades that you can limit how many of them are in game.   

 

 

This would encourage people to go out and fight them for Loot and encourage PVP to control that area of space.   It would also make it so that you can leave the original solar system alone as new players will need a way to get themselves off the ground while Not making the game completely ridiculous.   

50 % of population doesnt care  nor want to  pvp, another 25% can live with it and occasionally will participate, only 25 % at best is interested  and treats it as main focus, make a full pvp system and barely anyone will be considering a move.

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1 hour ago, theshockcabletv said:

You're not understanding I don't care who this guy is . At the time I wrote my reply he was asking for a forum section dedicated to community leaders. He may have changed the wording, rewrote the post. Yet the message was that he wanted a separate post that way "community leaders" could list the problems their community gives.  I don't think that should be a thing.

 

You're arguing under a fundamental misunderstanding here. The original post is below, for reference:

On 11/25/2020 at 11:24 AM, Physics said:

May I make a suggestion for NQ up the chain. Take the suggestions CM’s are noting down from these feedback posts and authorise the CM’s to make a post, “following our community feed back here are the changes to the upcoming patch 0.23 and here is what we could not do because of x,y & Z. This will give us a feel good feeling that our input is having an impact on game direction.

NQ - the developers
CM's - The Community Managers appointed by NQ.

 

Nothing to do with players or org leaders.

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20 minutes ago, Umibozu said:

50 % of population doesn't care  nor want to  PVP, another 25% can live with it and occasionally will participate, only 25 % at best is interested  and treats it as main focus, make a full PVP system and barely anyone will be considering a move.

 

But in this solution everyone wins,  PVP people can PVP the PVE players can PVE and there would be a draw to fight whether its the other race or other players.   All the upgrades can be in the new systems and obtainable only through fighting.    if one org has the only means of making an item it gives a reason to fight for that orgs factory. 

I don't know its just 10 mins of thinking outside the box,  in this scenario  we will have more types of players.   The more types of gameplay we can integrate the more subs we will have.   You are correct  very few players are wanting the full PVP thing and it will force the ones who don't out of the game.  

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