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NQ, Griefers are a problem

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1 hour ago, [BOO] Sylva said:

They eventually patched in that you had to drop a TCU before placing a static core to solve the issue. 

 

NQ basically nerfed their game instead of taking a firm position on this. They have a habit of working around issues, impacting everyone, instead of fixing them and this was a fine example of that.

 

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37 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

If DU goes tits up - it won't be because of walls but complete and total lack of end game. Just a grind within a grind within a grind to speed up the grind. You know - same reason Worlds Adrift died...

It's almost like development is being led by someone that's never made a game before....yet has promised one of the most ambitious MMOs of all time...? 😏🤷‍♂️

 

To the OPs point, I think you should expect a good amount of abuse in DU -- because honestly the gameplay elements do seem like an afterthought. Letting players help balance things (figuring it out once the tools are in place) probably sounded better on paper than it does staring down the barrel of lost subscriptions... 

 

Unlike Worlds Adrift, at least DU is extremely expensive to run and has completely unpredictable costs since players can congregate en masse at any time...

 

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10 minutes ago, michaelk said:

It's almost like development is being led by someone that's never made a game before....yet has promised one of the most ambitious MMOs of all time...? 😏🤷‍♂️

 

To the OPs point, I think you should expect a good amount of abuse in DU -- because honestly the gameplay elements do seem like an afterthought. Letting players help balance things (figuring it out once the tools are in place) probably sounded better on paper than it does staring down the barrel of lost subscriptions... 

 

Unlike Worlds Adrift, at least DU is extremely expensive to run and has completely unpredictable costs since players can congregate en masse at any time...

 

JC hasn't been griefed enough and hasn't griefed enough frankly.

 

It was pretty funny to watch the most recent stream when he said that he doesn't want automated turrets of any kind....

 

Right now the griefing is just for lulz.

 

Wait till territories are on the line and EVE style warfare doctrine goes into full effect - you know - when you win by utterly demoralizing your enemies and causing them to quit the game in frustration through any means necessary. You know, the same way you won at ARK, ATLAS, Empyrion etc....

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The responses on this makes me want to be as far away as possible from you guys... cringy, unnecessarily belligerent and down right childish to say the least. What this guy is doing is a form of griefing but same as drugs people will do it no matter what so there is very little way of stopping it, just make it as much unfun for them as possible, think about it, he could be out there playing the game but no, he prefers to be there building an ugly wall just to piss you off, really just ignore him.

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10 minutes ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

The responses on this makes me want to be as far away as possible from you guys... cringy, unnecessarily belligerent and down right childish to say the least. What this guy is doing is a form of griefing but same as drugs people will do it no matter what so there is very little way of stopping it, just make it as much unfun for them as possible, think about it, he could be out there playing the game but no, he prefers to be there building an ugly wall just to piss you off, really just ignore him.

Please do not gatekeep how DU should be played. If someone wants to build a wall, they can, this is all part of the intended emergent gameplay.

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so, dude build a wall on his/unclaimed hex - and you were smart enough to build a runway that starts from non-yours hex. What is the problem here? If I will decide to build a big factory near your runway, will you run to the NQ support ticket crying how me bad player influencing your gameplay by minding my own biz on my own hex? The problem here is not a griefer but an issue with texture load - so you may write NQ a ticket to fix it instead. If we go and start to report all people on neighboring hexes that bother us - that guy can go and write a ticket that he is tired of your ships smashing his wall and each time he has to remove the wrecks

 

And that streaming menacing reminds me of this:

 

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1 hour ago, Mordgier said:

Please do not gatekeep how DU should be played. If someone wants to build a wall, they can, this is all part of the intended emergent gameplay.

There is playing a game how you like and there is doing something with the express purpose of hurting someone else's gameplay just for the fun of it, not saying it should be wrong or it should be forbidden but it is an asshole move, don't get me wrong I'll kill you in a PVP game and take loot from you but killing you just for the fun of it don't know man it feels wrong to me but that is just me a normal person with barely any trace of psychotic behavior in me, EVE had its share of psychopaths its normal that some of you ended up here.

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11 minutes ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

There is playing a game how you like and there is doing something with the express purpose of hurting someone else's gameplay just for the fun of it, not saying it should be wrong or it should be forbidden but it is an asshole move, don't get me wrong I'll kill you in a PVP game and take loot from you but killing you just for the fun of it don't know man it feels wrong to me but that is just me a normal person with barely any trace of psychotic behavior in me, EVE had its share of psychopaths its normal that some of you ended up here.

But he is able to loot the ships that core themselves against the wall - so there is profit here - not just the delicious tears. Although I am sure that Mr Build A Wall is watching this thread with only one hand free because the OPs tears are exactly the release they were looking for - and now they are here in public for him to screenshot for their discord where they are all laughing at you.

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6 hours ago, michaelk said:

If they want to stop a behavior, it's easy -- just fix the technical issues or game rules that make griefing possible.

 

The rules of the game shouldn't be a guess. If you can do it, it is legal. If you shouldn't be able to do it, the game should not let you do it...not an underpaid and overworked GM prone to human error. 

 

So in this case, there's no such things as actionable exploits, as such, right? If it can be done in game it's legal... So that means, If you can dupe, it's legal until the game rules change. If you can teleport goods from one end of the system to the next, its allowable until patched, if you can destroy a sitting ship in the safe zone or fly floating cubes of voxels and see through 10m of steel, its cool... until it doesn't work any more.

While that would be the ideal situation, NQ have already made it clear that (in the first two cases, at least) that this is not how they intend to handle it...

But true, thought, NQ are already showing those signs of inconsistency in handling things you mentioned.

 

 

5 hours ago, Mordgier said:

lol at you thinking that piling dirt is an exploit.

 

You may have had a case if they were making a net from floating voxels

No. the actual exploit the OP was talking about here was the late razzing in of the altered voxels, often too late for an incoming ship to spot.... Bang, a wall suddenly appears right in front of them, destroying their ship.

But they are also just basically antisocial and make the game look cheap and nasty, like abandoned Second Life tiles.

There was a similar case which NQ explicitly declared griefing and that was where a player was digging under other's bases, making the bases impossible to reach on foot and also damaged the carefully constructed aesthetics.

5 hours ago, [BOO] Sylva said:

They didn't do anything when someone mined out underneath one of NG's bases either. They eventually patched in that you had to drop a TCU before placing a static core to solve the issue. 

No, but they did subsequently release one of the only clear decelerations they have made so far on what they considered griefing.

Undermining NG's base was done before any declaration on what was and wasn't acceptable gameplay and any "Punishment" they gave out would have rightly been deemed arbitrary and would not have helped.
 

2 hours ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

The responses on this makes me want to be as far away as possible from you guys... cringy, unnecessarily belligerent and down right childish to say the least. What this guy is doing is a form of griefing but same as drugs people will do it no matter what so there is very little way of stopping it, just make it as much unfun for them as possible, think about it, he could be out there playing the game but no, he prefers to be there building an ugly wall just to piss you off, really just ignore him.

  and
 

1 hour ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

There is playing a game how you like and there is doing something with the express purpose of hurting someone else's gameplay just for the fun of it, not saying it should be wrong or it should be forbidden but it is an asshole move, don't get me wrong I'll kill you in a PVP game and take loot from you but killing you just for the fun of it don't know man it feels wrong to me but that is just me a normal person with barely any trace of psychotic behavior in me, EVE had its share of psychopaths its normal that some of you ended up here.


I used to live in the UK as a child, and the government spent good money cleaning up our shithole of a city... They put down clean paving stones, spruced up dank town squares with statues, saplings and lighting and improved the infrastructure for the ageing population by covering bus stops with roofs and glass windows to keep the rain off elderly passengers while they waited.

it suffices to say that a small minority insisted they wanted to live in their former shithole, so they found that using a steel ballbearing they could easily crack all the paving stones and that with a crowbar, they could bend all the statues and snap the trees and then with marker pens they could draw penises and write c**t on all the lights. And if they timed their kicks just right, they could break the toughened glass on all the bus stops in town without using a tool.

So I moved to Tokyo. Thankfully, people in this city are more conscientious than they are in my hometown, vandalism is all but non existent.

And it is the digital version of vandalism, plain and simple. And I'm sure there's a psychological reason why vandals exists in some societies and most games.
 

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10 hours ago, [BOO] Sylva said:

They didn't do anything when someone mined out underneath one of NG's bases either. They eventually patched in that you had to drop a TCU before placing a static core to solve the issue. 

They did do something to those individuals when they mined under the base.  That is one of the main reasons they brought out the TCU at that time and implemented the new build zone policy where you can't place cores down near each other.

 

So in essence, bringing up issues here can have a positive effect for the community.

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What an interesting thread.  I can sort of see both sides here.  However, I think there is a probable solution.

The pirate concerned has to go into PvP space to strip or rebuild the ships.  Either hunt him down (every single time) or pay a PvP clan to do it for you.

Isn't this an opportunity for game play?

 

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Don't worry - terrain walls will be the least of your problems. Once the air safe zone has been removed folks will be building rail gun turrets right at their property lines and devastating everything within 40km. 

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If this happened on sanctuary there would be no way around it since you can't claim more than 1 tile and can't move. So NQ may opt to do something in safe zones only. Technically, all 6 of your neighbors could build high altitude walls on every side. This problem was already theorized years ago in these forums.

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13 hours ago, w1r3dh4ck3r said:

The responses on this makes me want to be as far away as possible from you guys... cringy, unnecessarily belligerent and down right childish to say the least. What this guy is doing is a form of griefing but same as drugs people will do it no matter what so there is very little way of stopping it, just make it as much unfun for them as possible, think about it, he could be out there playing the game but no, he prefers to be there building an ugly wall just to piss you off, really just ignore him.

Fun is zero sum.

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I do understand the OP and the likeminded people's frustration: it feels bad when someone interferes with your gameplay and prevents you from having fun in a way that feels cheap or mean-spirited. I've played hundreds of hours of games like Ark, EVE, Rust, and the like. I've been on both sides of problems like these: griefed and griefer. My initial gut reaction in a sandbox game of this nature is to support the freedom of players to play the game however they like because that is, after all, the central ethos of this game and why it appeals to me and so many others. Some people will choose to grief and harass other players, and I consider them an important part of the game's ecosystem. Much in the sense that playing a game like Minecraft presents you with obstacles in the form of creepers or skeletons, a game like Dual Universe that will be driven primarily by players ought to present similar obstacles created by other players. Therefore, one of the most important aspects of gameplay becomes a player's ability to circumvent those obstacles by their own power. However, that is where we enter complicated territory.

 

If the actions of one griefer have the ability to inordinately impact the game experience of other players (both in number of players and intensity of the impact), then that is something that needs to be addressed quickly and efficiently. As has been mentioned, there are technically ways to mitigate or prevent the aforementioned grief from happening, and that's a good thing! But there should be even more options for retaliation on the part of the affected party here. You build a wall around my base? Well, I do X to respond to that, basically. And in this case X response to retaliate should be greater in effort than the initial offense, but not so great as to feel like you are required to invest a ridiculous amount to just avoid a simple grief.

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1 hour ago, Orangeferret said:

Fun is zero sum.

Lies, enjoyment depends on the individual

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20 hours ago, Mordgier said:

Claim that territory if you don't like it. If it's already claimed, too bad. He can build the biggest wall he wants in his territory. It's his territory. If you don't like it, check your HOA ordinances.....oh wait...

 

Also - you're not some special snowflake just because you stream - your attitude is more harmful than these walls.

(so many bad words unsuited to this forum I want to trow at you.... but let's try to say this in a civilized way, not that your"snowflake" comment was a good start for this.)

When PPL go out of their way, and without of any strategic gain, try to prevent other PPL to enjoy the game. that's called griefing.
They are even exploiting a game mechanic not intended to that purpose(dig control over that territory)

And yes, you can come up with 100 excuses for him to have some purpose with that wall. But are we 10 years old? Have we decided to ignore the obvious and go for the 0.01% chance?
 

Some context would also help to clear out that 0.01%. The op is an ex member of the griefer's org and could say that there are still some bad issues between them.

 

This is 100% griefing in a PVP free zone. And NQ should give a temp ban on the griefer.

Why a ban, instead of a warning? To set an example. So social challenged ppl can know that there are limits. 

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SO, FINALLY, THERE YOU HAVIT: NQ official response.. TBH, I’m equal parts surprised and not. Surprised they wrote their rules so clearly. Unsurprised that it will incur a manual solution rather than technical. 

 

  • Walls must not be placed with the intention of interfering with neighboring players. When players can not agree, the final decision on what is and is not acceptable is decided on a case-by-case basis by Novaquark staff.
     

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3 hours ago, BaconofWar said:

Don't worry - terrain walls will be the least of your problems. Once the air safe zone has been removed folks will be building rail gun turrets right at their property lines and devastating everything within 40km. 

except that will not be possible until you actually take over the TU for the tile you want to attack and that wil not be easy nor cheap

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