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The Great DAC Compromise Poll [Please Read Before Voting]

The Great DAC Compromise  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Please read the post before voting!

    • Option A
      34
    • Option B
      13
    • Option C
      36
    • Option D
      4


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In response to the recent issue of DAC's, and specifically about whether or not they should be allowed to be "stolen" ingame, I believe that this compromise may satisfy the desires of both crowds. I believe it also may add a perk for backers that may encourage more people to back (although I can see the downsides from the point of view of the community as well).

 

I'm asking that you please read through these options fully before voting in the poll. 

 

The "Eve Online Model" as referred to here is as follows:

 

- PLEX does not have to be converted into an ingame item immediately.

- You do not have to be in the same station as your PLEX to redeem it.
- You do not have to bring it into the game to redeem it.
- If you convert it to an ingame item, you can trade it to other players.
- If it is an ingame item it can be stolen while moving it through space if you are killed.

- Plex are otherwise safe in stations when not being physically moved through space

 

 

Option A - No DAC's are lootable regardless of when they are acquired. No DAC's can be "stolen". All DAC's are completely secure.

 

Option B - All DAC's are lootable regardless of when they are acquired. DAC's can be "stolen". All DAC's follow the "Eve Online Model". 

 

Option C - (The Compromise)

Kickstarter DAC's are non-lootable and are "safe" (ie pre-release purchased DAC's follow Option A.)

DAC's purchased after release follow the same mechanics that Eve does (ie post-release purchased DAC's follow option B.)

 

Option D - Other - Please Explain Below

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Copy and paste from other thread i propose this as option D

 

  • Players who buy DAC's off NQ will hold them in a digital wallet until they choose to use or to sell them. Selling them converts to a protected item until they are picked up. (I somewhat disagree with this one, once they are converted they should be lootable (seller took the risk to market them)
  • Digital DAC's can be used directly from the digital wallet a player may choose to never take them out of there.
  • DAC's in the inventory cannot be converted back to digital
  • Kickstarter DAC's are protected regardless (this may give them a higher value later on and potentially cause people to hoard them so a time limit should be applied)
  • According to the devs market items have to be picked up so the buyer must travel to collect his DAC but can choose to use it immediately adding to his game time (If he chooses not to use it immediately he must pick it up) This rule is here so he doesn't get kicked out of the game at the end of the month but also makes them fair game for large corporations moving DAC's

Regarding a time limit i suggest the number of months equal to the number of DAC's you actually received giving more value to higher packs while keeping it balanced still (might help the kickstarter cause) or a set timelimit of between 6-24 months after that time they are no longer protected

 

Edit apparently this is option C XD i was corrected by some eve players.

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Copy and paste from other thread i propose this as option D

 

  • Players who buy DAC's off NQ will hold them in a digital wallet until they choose to use or to sell them. Selling them converts to a protected item until they are picked up. (I somewhat disagree with this one, once they are converted they should be lootable (seller took the risk to market them)
  • Digital DAC's can be used directly from the digital wallet a player may choose to never take them out of there.
  • DAC's in the inventory cannot be converted back to digital
  • Kickstarter DAC's are protected regardless (this may give them a higher value later on and potentially cause people to hoard them so a time limit should be applied)
  • According to the devs market items have to be picked up so the buyer must travel to collect his DAC but can choose to use it immediately adding to his game time (If he chooses not to use it immediately he must pick it up) This rule is here so he doesn't get kicked out of the game at the end of the month but also makes them fair game for large corporations moving DAC's

Regarding a time limit i suggest the number of months equal to the number of DAC's you actually received giving more value to higher packs while keeping it balanced still (might help the kickstarter cause) or a set timelimit of between 6-24 months after that time they are no longer protected

That's Option C you stated. Read the description Yama provided.

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So, here's my take:

Firstly, I totally get why someone would want DAC's to be completely safe. They purchased them for real money, and they should be able to use them/trade them, go anywhere with them without worrying about losing them. I get it.  But, there's a whole bunch of gameplay that gets eliminated as a result of this method. The emergent gameplay that Dual Universe is striving for! 

 

In my opinion, there should be another choice to this post. It would look something like this:

 

  • DAC's are 100% secure to the original owner. Kickstarter DAC's aren't even handed out in-game until the backer wants them delivered. The buyer (directly from NovaQuark) is free to go where they please without risk of loss.

 

  • Upon trading the DAC to a 3rd party, the item now becomes tangible in-game and can be looted and traded further. This still provides the original owner to transfer the DAC to a 3rd party safely, so long as the 3rd party uses the item immediately, or stays/stores the item in safe zone.
  • Looks like I just described the PLEX system!

 

This allows for a entire market/economy to exist and provides the "diamond" for pirates. If people are going to get in the business of dealing DAC's, they should also be willing to accept the risks of losing  their goods. 

 

In my eyes, this system covers the original buyer from accidently losing the DAC for some stupid reason, but still provides emergent gameplay to form around the DAC currency. It also allows the DAC's to be traded securely within safe zones. So those who want to use them purely as in-game time don't have to worry, while those who are looking to get into the emergent gameplay surrounding DAC's have something to lose. 

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Seems good, but this poll is kind of a trap. There has already been a poll, people voted majority to not have these be stealable items. I won't allow this thread to become a justification for a conceptual free-for-all on DAC's dropping on death.

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It doesnt do as much good as it sounds for them to be a loot-able item.

I'm going to go against this

 

Unlike in eve, there are no NPC stations to sit them in. theyll exist somwhere in game at all times available to be taken.

 

Everyone makes this sound like it'll destroy the game if you can't steal DAC's from people. I'm not convinced stealing DAC's is useful for the game as a whole. Its simply an interesting mechanic for them, but its not really fair in either direction. DAC's themselves arent particularly fair and making them lootable is just another injustice.

 

Either way is percieved as something not fair. If people with money can buy DACs not fair. If people can't steal DACs somehow also not fair.

I respect NQ's decision to make them non lootable.

 

Why would anyone ever move a DAC, even if its a physical item just use a tag mark it as yours and you are the only one with the right to pick it up, leave it in the Novark field area, and leave. Realized there is technically one safe area.

 

I'm not about strong arming NQ to make decisions or using perceived leverage against them I hope they stick to making choices they believe are logical and not bending because the community clammors for something that is opinion.

 

Great games have been wrecked in both directions, communities asking for questionable mechanics, and devlopers turning their back to community opinion.

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Why would anyone ever move a DAC, even if its a physical item just use a tag mark it as yours and you are the only one with the right to pick it up, leave it in the Novark field area, and leave.

 

 

 

NQ could implement a feature that requires DAC's to be moved away from the safe zone. Additionally, they could create a maximum storage capacity of DAC's within a safe zone. Something big, like 20-40, or more, but still low enough to stop the hording of hundreds of DAC's that could be earned/purchased/stolen/looted using a PLEX-like system. 

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I'm going to use very short and simple sentances to underscore this point.

 

Regardless of the options in play - ALL OF US need to be aware of a fundamental key, immutable fact:

 

The success of the game determines the value of the DAC.

 

Let me say that again slowly in a different way.

 

NovaQuark provides Platform as a Service (PaaS).

 

They do not do content.

 

They do not make the community.

 

That is for us and us alone.

 

If the game tanks, DAC's are effectively worthless.

 

If the community is shit, divided and un-inclusive, and the emergent gameplay doesn't occur, the game tanks.

 

EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF US HERE WILL DETERMINE THE SUCCESS OF THE GAME.

 

IT IS ON US TO MAKE OR BREAK THE BUSINESS MODEL.

 

Regardless of the option you may vote for above - remember this immutable fact.

 

The technology may be NovaQuark's, but the experience we make as a community is ours and ours alone. That is the real value DAC's reflect and what should be of highest concern to each and every one of you.

 

*end rant* 

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I can understand why people want them to be non-lootable, which is why I am in support of the "compromise" myself.

 

I think that alleviates the fears of backers that they will lose their DAC's that they paid for, and gives an incentive for kickstarter backers. 

 

There would certainly be a large supply of kickstarter dac's coming into the market as the game launches, but after a while they would disappear from the market and their value as a non-lootable item would be negated by the fact that people are mostly buying them to use them rather than hoard them.

 

Post-launch DAC buyers would have to be aware of the terms of buying them, and it's not such a difficult mechanic that it's impossible for people to figure out. Eve has managed to survive with their plex model for quite a while now. 

 

 

 

I might even be in favor of a mechanic where DAC's can't be destroyed, but rather they are dropped or kept in your inventory when you die based on some other probability.

 

I would also be in favor of a mechanic where DAC's can't just "disappear" because they're not looted in time. Rather they could return to the inventory of the person who dropped them. 

 

 

I just don't want to see a situation where they become a secondary form of currency or way of storing irrevocable value to an asset simply because they can't be stolen. 

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"They do not do content."

 

Yea... I think they do.  They created the DAC.  In effect, they created a commodity for the game.  In fact, they labeled it a 'Dual Access Coupon' commodity.  It was not created just for a coupon game time ticket.  I had to think about this today after taking a very small part in the DAC debate via Discord.  Initially, I was very much against having this item lootable if acquired from the KS but there's no difference between purchasing the DAC via KS or doing an advance purchase or whatever method.  A purchase is a purchase.  

 

I think it should be a fully lootable item and one that can be destroyed.   When there is little to be lost, people don't care.  We see this over and over in other games where actions have no consequences.  Would you be driving through a really bad neighborhood in your shitty Jeep that has no working tail lights and have a paper bag of 20k sitting next to you?  As long as there is a way to safely store the item...   If I want to take a chance and transport a cargo of DAC's with the possibility of losing it, well give me the freedom to make that decision. 

 

There will be other features that will come up on our radar that we won't agree with or will think that NQ has lost their minds over.  We have a responsibility to give the company feedback and tell them if we are not in agreement with a game feature.   If it makes sense and the feedback is vocal enough, they will listen because they don't have to answer to a big publisher and so far this company has demonstrated an open door policy to fan based feed back.

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Fair point. I should really say "They don't do community", or "they don't do content (that's not DAC's or raw voxels and character models n trees n stuff) ;)

 

(Actually non KS DAC's could actually be a nice actual physical item if they were really heavy / required actual transport. Like if DAC was represented as a rare ore or some such... Gold Bars in the RL sense (vs fiat currency)

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Im tired of hearing about emergent gameplay concerning DACs, if you want emergent gameplay, how do you justify DACs existance in the game world? Its a real thing to sell,trade that gives you game time to play. Your emergent play should only care about real game items that you use. All of your arguments to promote the stealing of someone elses game play time are completely ridiculous.

 

I honestly hope they do not go to this play style, and if you guys drop over i wish ypu well in eve where you can do this.

 

I am sick of seeing this community attack the new members, and i am also sick of you all thinking that your idea is the only way this game should work. Guess what, a lot of people dont want to steal a 12 year olds month of game play, and we think it should be protected from scum bags trying to steal it.

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Im tired of hearing about emergent gameplay concerning DACs, if you want emergent gameplay, how do you justify DACs existance in the game world? Its a real thing to sell,trade that gives you game time to play. Your emergent play should only care about real game items that you use. All of your arguments to promote the stealing of someone elses game play time are completely ridiculous.

 

I honestly hope they do not go to this play style, and if you guys drop over i wish ypu well in eve where you can do this.

 

I am sick of seeing this community attack the new members, and i am also sick of you all thinking that your idea is the only way this game should work. Guess what, a lot of people dont want to steal a 12 year olds month of game play, and we think it should be protected from scum bags trying to steal it.

 

My thoughts re: emergent are just kicking ideas about around that sort of thing - more an "well, if you're going to have them in there, then how about this".

 

At a stepping back level - abso-fricken-lutely. First and foremost - stealing is stealing if it's real money we're talking.

 

In-game (non-KS) "DAC" really should be something you don't pay real cash for, but is just a thing you can spend in-game cash on should you wish. Which one would hope would mean you then redeem said DAC straight away against your play account because there's no actual point to "holding on to it" in that sense. The DAC's one might buy from NQ's online store similarly probably shouldn't be transferred to inventory for selling on the market - simpler to just have micro transactions of x $ = y DU bucks.

 

"i am also sick of you all thinking..."

 

(Do be careful with generalisations though - not all of us think we have any real idea how anything should work - it's NQ's party really. ;) Other than that - on point IMO.)

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Im tired of hearing about emergent gameplay concerning DACs, if you want emergent gameplay, how do you justify DACs existance in the game world? Its a real thing to sell,trade that gives you game time to play. Your emergent play should only care about real game items that you use. All of your arguments to promote the stealing of someone elses game play time are completely ridiculous.

 

I honestly hope they do not go to this play style, and if you guys drop over i wish ypu well in eve where you can do this.

 

I am sick of seeing this community attack the new members, and i am also sick of you all thinking that your idea is the only way this game should work. Guess what, a lot of people dont want to steal a 12 year olds month of game play, and we think it should be protected from scum bags trying to steal it.

 

 

Is this really what we've come to? Slinging insults back and forth at one another?

 

We're trying to have an open discussion about this to find a way that makes both sides happy, because there are passionate people on both sides of the issue (you wouldn't be calling people scumbags for disagreeing with you otherwise). 

 

Regardless of if you agree with their playstyle or not, those "scumbags" are going to be in the game one way or another, and they are just as much paying customers as the rest of us. Trying to exclude things that appeal to that style of gameplay simply because they make us uncomfortable thinking about isn't the right way to go about it. 

 

It's not like I don't have anything riding on this if they were lootable items, I'm getting 80 DAC's with my pledge and if I lost them all in-game that would be on me.

 

I mean really, look at at my posts here, do I really seem like the kind of person that's going to be a pirate? I'm interested in much deeper gameplay than that. Though I understand that it's an important element and style of gameplay that needs to exist. 

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Im tired of hearing about emergent gameplay concerning DACs, if you want emergent gameplay, how do you justify DACs existance in the game world? Its a real thing to sell,trade that gives you game time to play. Your emergent play should only care about real game items that you use. All of your arguments to promote the stealing of someone elses game play time are completely ridiculous.

 

I honestly hope they do not go to this play style, and if you guys drop over i wish ypu well in eve where you can do this.

 

I am sick of seeing this community attack the new members, and i am also sick of you all thinking that your idea is the only way this game should work. Guess what, a lot of people dont want to steal a 12 year olds month of game play, and we think it should be protected from scum bags trying to steal it.

 

i had a funny feeling i would regret involvement with this topic.  it really does bring out some very strong opinions and emotions which is understandable but I don't recall anyone being attacked.  I think I'm the newest person here and I certainly don't know how things should work, but I do enjoy reading (and sometimes taking part in the discussions) regarding the early evolution of this project.  There's a lot of knowledgeable and experienced ppl in here (much more than myself) and its interesting to see all the different viewpoints.

 

i'll elaborate on a couple things then i'll excuse myself from this topic forever more.  How do you justify DAC's existence if you want full emergent gameplay?  You don't.  We are discussing how we deal with DAC's being in the game (as a done deal) and how it should be handled.  That is a decision by NQ, for better or worse.  I would like to think that no one associated with this forum would be using the DAC shortcomings for stealing.  Maybe there are scumbags among us but personally I have had a very positive experience with everyone I've met in here so far, but here was the point regarding a lootable DAC:  No one wants to take anyone's lunch money so they cannot play DU next month.  Jeez, at least I hope not.

 

Buy your DAC, put it safely away (NQ needs to ensure this is possible), and use the dam thing to cover your monthly fee.  End of Story right?   However....  if you are going to use the DAC for another purpose (actually I can think of many) such as transporting a bunch of it somewhere so you can make a huge profit with another corporation or player... then yes, imo it's fair game.  

 

I hope that no one gets too stressed or assumes the worst regarding gameplay ideas and opinions.  If so, then I will bet that was not the intent.  Have a good evening everyone.  :)

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@yamamushi I hear you.

 

In defence of @GalloInfligo - I read his use of the word "scum bags" not as muck slinging in the debate, but rather, a term referring to real life, out of play people who are seeking to literally steal what is effectively real money.

 

If that's not the context in which he meant it - well - then @GalloInfligo - I must disagree - there must be a means or mechanic (community driven or otherwise) that allows for "friendly" in-game "redistribution of wealth" (piracy/covert ops between corps/outlaws etc), but in no way makes things a simple gank-fest (sorry Twerk n co) - there has to be risk on both sides, and reward, and more importantly, a feeling that even if one side or another loses, that the experience was FUN and not something that will make players rage-quit, or otherwise constitute RL actions which anywhere else would be considered pure cyber-bullying or predatory activity.

 

As you were.

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Is this really what we've come to? Slinging insults back and forth at one another?

 

We're trying to have an open discussion about this to find a way that makes both sides happy, because there are passionate people on both sides of the issue (you wouldn't be calling people scumbags for disagreeing with you otherwise). 

 

Regardless of if you agree with their playstyle or not, those "scumbags" are going to be in the game one way or another, and they are just as much paying customers as the rest of us. Trying to exclude things that appeal to that style of gameplay simply because they make us uncomfortable thinking about isn't the right way to go about it. 

 

It's not like I don't have anything riding on this if they were lootable items, I'm getting 80 DAC's with my pledge and if I lost them all in-game that would be on me.

 

I mean really, look at at my posts here, do I really seem like the kind of person that's going to be a pirate? I'm interested in much deeper gameplay than that. Though I understand that it's an important element and style of gameplay that needs to exist. 

 

there was an open discussion on DAC's, with a poll already.  starting another thread on the matter was not needed.  The point is NQ stated they were not and a group of players IMHO appear to be trying to sway that to the style of play they want, even going as far as stating they might take back their pledge if they don't get their way....So I call someone who wants to steal little timmy's DAC a scumbag, others threaten to pull their support if they dont get to steal it....

 

From the model above, your 80 DAC are safe if option C is the new method correct???  which is the whole point of this new thread to give yet another option but hey lets steal little timmy's DAC but you better make mine from KS safe mentality.  I have a problem with this, either they are all loot able or non are.  Why should the KS ones be protected but not all future one bought?  The ones in the future are going to cost those members more than the amount you get for your pledge, that is some reverse logic thinking to protect the cheaper dollar ones.

 

The entire point of the DAC system is so that people (mostly kids) that can't afford to pay to play, have an option.  now making that option a loot able item IMHO damages the entire DAC system.  The other problem is its the dumb young kids that are going to fall prey to this time and again.  Now I don't know about you, but I try and take young players under my wing and help them out.  

 

There will be enough loot for the looters, in fully emergent style or crafted items, blueprints, and raw materials.  We all want this game to succeed, but there are a few toxic personalities in these forums, that have attacked time and again different view points from theirs, this being the newest one.  

 

Let me ask you Yamamushi, a few months back when you first seen this project, and thought to yourself, damn! I cant wait to support this, did you really think to yourself, OH, but not is DAC's are not loot able!

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In defence of @GalloInfligo - I read his use of the word "scum bags" not as muck slinging in the debate, but rather, a term referring to real life, out of play people who are seeking to literally steal what is effectively real money.

 

As you were.

Yes, I am referring to the ones, that will attempt to scam those that need the DACs to continue playing.  sell it cheap in a remote area, than pounce as soon as its bought, to loot it right back again.  More than likely some dumb kid that doesnt realize, what might be going on.

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i had a funny feeling i would regret involvement with this topic.  it really does bring out some very strong opinions and emotions which is understandable but I don't recall anyone being attacked.  I think I'm the newest person here and I certainly don't know how things should work, but I do enjoy reading (and sometimes taking part in the discussions) regarding the early evolution of this project.  There's a lot of knowledgeable and experienced ppl in here (much more than myself) and its interesting to see all the different viewpoints.

 

i'll elaborate on a couple things then i'll excuse myself from this topic forever more.  How do you justify DAC's existence if you want full emergent gameplay?  You don't.  We are discussing how we deal with DAC's being in the game (as a done deal) and how it should be handled.  That is a decision by NQ, for better or worse.  I would like to think that no one associated with this forum would be using the DAC shortcomings for stealing.  Maybe there are scumbags among us but personally I have had a very positive experience with everyone I've met in here so far, but here was the point regarding a lootable DAC:  No one wants to take anyone's lunch money so they cannot play DU next month.  Jeez, at least I hope not.

 

Buy your DAC, put it safely away (NQ needs to ensure this is possible), and use the dam thing to cover your monthly fee.  End of Story right?   However....  if you are going to use the DAC for another purpose (actually I can think of many) such as transporting a bunch of it somewhere so you can make a huge profit with another corporation or player... then yes, imo it's fair game.  

 

I hope that no one gets too stressed or assumes the worst regarding gameplay ideas and opinions.  If so, then I will bet that was not the intent.  Have a good evening everyone.   :)

 

Hunter I am glad you were one of the members to not be attacked.  I have however seen it time and again.  I look at defending the non loot able DAC system the same way the majority of us have defended the Pay to Play method in all of the Free to Play posts.  Nobody wants to hear it, nobody cares about that persons views.  I get it, NQ laid down the law on what pay method they are using and we get tired of hearing it.  This is the 2nd thread already dealing with DAC's being non loot able.

 

The DACs are not emergent, that is my point in saying wanting emergent gameplay to loot them is meaningless.  They are there for 2 very good reason.  They let the broke players continue to play, and they put a serious hurting on the Chinese gold farming spam sites. we all know, you either have DAC's or Gold farmers, spaming us all the time.

 

If you can't loot my credits, why should you be able to loot my DACs?  Credits are digital so hey that at least makes game play sense.....well so are DACs!

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We were sold on DAC's being like PLEX multiple times, even during E3, so the thought of them being lootable was something I had understood going in from the beginning. 

 

The entire point of DAC's is not so that low-income people can play, that's a nice shot at the empathy card though. I do really like the "think of the children" angle too. DAC's are for people who don't want to pay to play, or for people who want to be rewarded for the time they put into the game. DAC's encourage people to continue playing in order to have something to aim towards when they aren't paying for a subscription. 

 

Sure you can say that low-income people are going to be buying DAC's, but how many interviews have they done where low-income was a target demographic for DAC's versus "those who don't want to pay to play"? 

 

 

I might pull my pledge too, because it's not the system I believed it was. Nobody is forcing me to pledge, I am merely stating my position that it wasn't the mechanic I was led to believe it was and to me it's enough of a game changer that it deserves a discussion that isn't a passing comment on kickstarters discussion page. I wouldn't buy a car that wasn't the color I wanted.

 

Before I pull out, I want to know why they went with this design choice, and what kind of impact that is going to have on the greater game. How DAC's even work in the game should be laid out so that we can all understand whether looting is something is being left out on purpose, or simply doesn't fit into the way they work. And if the latter is the case, is there another scenario they are overlooking that would make looting possible. 

 

It's not even entirely about the DAC's to me, it's the precedent that it sets that if this is one compromise they are making to appeal to that kind of demographic, that there very well may be many more non-lootable items to come as the game approaches release. It starts with DAC's, then what? 

 

 

At the very least NQ seems open to hearing out our concerns about this design choice, and having an open mind when hearing out what we have to say about the matter. 

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I feel that that's really the crux to the whole debate - DAC's at the current time have no separation from real life / in-game. Which creates issues for people on either side, and NQ, as we are seeing.

 

To sum, it would seem to me (caveat - I'm not an economist really) that:

 

  • The NQ business needs a means to VC seed fund itself - DAC's in this context represent a "shareholder"/backer investment, the return on which is game time or in game currency. We are split as a community as to whether this investment should be protected in a physical sense, or if such investments are transferable, either illegally (theft) or legally.
     
  • The game itself appears to "need" an underpinning "gold standard" (specie, bullion or exchange/de-facto based are options) for the economy or a fiat currency model. The latter is not really possible at this time. We appear to be split as a community as to whether it is appropriate to use either the specie model or bullion model. NQ have essentially proposed the Exchange/De-Facto model.
    • Specie - the monetary unit is associated with the value of circulating "gold coins" (DAC's) or the monetary unit has the value of a certain circulating gold coin (KS DAC), but other "coins" may be made of less valuable metal (Post KS DAC).
       
    • Bullion - a system in which gold coins (DACs) do not circulate, but the authorities agree to sell gold bullion (DACs) on demand at a fixed price in exchange for the circulating currency - this is a translation of the non-lootable option in essence, but only if DAC's are not linked to real world purchase.
       
    • De-facto - usually does not involve the circulation of gold coins. The main feature of the gold (DAC) exchange standard is that the government (NQ) guarantees a fixed exchange rate to the currency of another country that uses a gold standard (specie or bullion), regardless of what type of notes or coins are used as a means of exchange. This creates a de facto gold standard, where the value of the means of exchange has a fixed external value (1 month play time for instance) in terms of gold (DAC's) that is independent of the inherent value of the means of exchange (real money or in game creds) itself.
  • At the same time, there is an emerging debate/need on top of the above around what, in-game, should be constituted as legal and fair play (stealing and looting), balanced against considerations such as real world, and known, activities by less than honest people who will seek to exploit DU and the real money flowing through it for personal gain - either by selling accounts, or "stealing" game time in effect.

 

These appear to me to be 3 separate but semi-related issues, that may be difficult to resolve while they are conflated into a single issue - NQ needs cash and we're investing, the game needs a working economy underpinned by something, and we need to have reasonable protections in place to stop bullying, harassment, fraud and theft, both in and out of game.

 

*braces himself*

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