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The Great DAC Compromise Poll [Please Read Before Voting]

The Great DAC Compromise  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Please read the post before voting!

    • Option A
      34
    • Option B
      13
    • Option C
      36
    • Option D
      4


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@GalloInfligo

 

I'm not sure why you're so concerned with kids or children. The devs have made sure to state this is not a game for children as an entire universe run by players requires adult level understanding of society, economics, politics, etc. A child in this game will hopefully be rare, but also is not really something we should be focusing on. If a parent wants their kid to play this game, and the kid makes a mistake and loses DAC by some foolish method, I say all the better. It's a life lesson that's better learned in reality, but is rightly expected to happen by the adults who will play. Kids have to understand consequences somehow and this game will have many if you don't have the mind and responsibility of an adult to handle it.

 

It seems like you want to protect people from making mistakes and learning from them, when this game is going to be about exactly that. It will be a trial and error of thousands of players attempting to make a virtual civilization.

 

Yes, scum bags exist and griefing will happen, like everywhere. The goal here is to make sure that it's 100% player responsibility if you want to keep DAC or not.

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Just trying to be sure I'm clear on everything.

 

DAC can be redeemed for game time.

DAC can be bought for real money.

DAC can be sold for in game currency.

 

Why would DAC ever be a physical item in game?  If you want to steal them for the value they represent... why not just steal the currency used to buy them instead? The currency used in these transactions isn't being sunk out of the game... it's going from player to player to be used to buy other goods and services from players.  So we can short circuit this whole discussion by just making the in game currency stealable. 

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I'm really torn on this topic. I support the "People have to learn from their mistakes" approach the most, as it is the one without protections for people that don't take care of their stuff. I can also understand yamas point "If they do this now, what comes next?" But I see the point Gallo Infligo made with the scammers/griefers. I propose the following solutions:

 

1. Have the DACs lootable, but put a big disclaimer on them, that they might be lost if carried outside of safezones. That way, even kids will know not to take them outside.

 

2. Have the DACs non-lootable, but have a formal agreement with NQ that they  stick with "Only Master Blueprints and DACs are unlootable" (Which we kind of already have, I'm just stating it again)

 

3. Have the DACs lootable, but with a protection-timer after they have been traded, so that the buyer has time to either use or safely store them. Now, I hear your furious typing: What if someone just keeps trading them back and forth to keep the protection? Simple: Put a cooldown on the tradeability that last at least an hour longer than the protection. 

 

I hope I didn't miss anything and that we can come to an agreement soon, without losing any members of this great community. We may have our differences, but that is exactly what makes a society.

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I'm really torn on this topic. I support the "People have to learn from their mistakes" approach the most, as it is the one without protections for people that don't take care of their stuff. I can also understand yamas point "If they do this now, what comes next?" But I see the point Gallo Infligo made with the scammers/griefers. I propose the following solutions:

 

1. Have the DACs lootable, but put a big disclaimer on them, that they might be lost if carried outside of safezones. That way, even kids will know not to take them outside.

 

2. Have the DACs non-lootable, but have a formal agreement with NQ that they  stick with "Only Master Blueprints and DACs are unlootable" (Which we kind of already have, I'm just stating it again)

 

3. Have the DACs lootable, but with a protection-timer after they have been traded, so that the buyer has time to either use or safely store them. Now, I hear your furious typing: What if someone just keeps trading them back and forth to keep the protection? Simple: Put a cooldown on the tradeability that last at least an hour longer than the protection. 

 

I hope I didn't miss anything and that we can come to an agreement soon, without losing any members of this great community. We may have our differences, but that is exactly what makes a society.

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Yes, I am referring to the ones, that will attempt to scam those that need the DACs to continue playing.  sell it cheap in a remote area, than pounce as soon as its bought, to loot it right back again.  More than likely some dumb kid that doesnt realize, what might be going on.

 

 

Your smuggling org is now useless then. Nobody needs you to smuggle their DACs safely.

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Your smuggling org is now useless then. Nobody needs you to smuggle their DACs safely.

Well, smugglers can still move resources, equipment and vehicles, the risk would just be contained to hours of ingame farming and crafting...

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If DAC's are not lootable there would not be a need to transport valuable materials from one location to another. You would just sell your materials at location A, buy a DAC [or multiple] and travel to location B and use the DACs to buy new materials.

 

Obviously there would still be situations where you would have to transport the raw resources, i.e. establishing a new outpost somewhere. But it a lot of cases you could just digitize your belongings and have someone else do the hauling. You would avoid most of the risk, and in turn a lot of the emergence.

 

 

Z7C4UD6.png

 

If people feel the urge to take a stroll with their [126*19,95€ =] 2.513,7€ shuttle, then I see no need to not let them.
 

Letting DAC become a safe way of moving wealth across the universe would rob the game of all that ensues in interplanetary bulk transport, and in turn make any freighter redundant, except moving resources into a new area.

In my opinion this would break more than it would fix. Add a warning saying something like this: "Redeeming this item will create a physical item, this physical item can be lost. Please ensure your safety while carrying this item"

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I agree, but there should be a limit:

 

you buy a DAC, it goes in your premium inventory: an inventory where all you stuff you bought irl goes into.

You cannot get robbed in it, but you can only withdraw from it.

you can activate the DAC from it.

So: if you sell the DAC, it gets on the open marketplace and then it is not worth money, but in game cash, and thus becomes a normal good, since the value bought with irl money has been taken.

 

on this point, you would go on a trade station, buy a DAC and use it immediately. you should be able to accumulate DACs play time when used, thus ensuring a stable play time.

 

BUT: there would be a need to transport the DACs as once they are used by the buyer they become an in game item, and can be stolen/destroyed/protected and must be transported by safe convoys to bring to big trade stations.

 

i think this is the best system as it keeps all the games mechanics intact while guaranteeing the original buyers value, without fearing to be stolen cash value.

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@Lord_Sekmeth

 

Make DAC bindable (can not be traded again) after 1st trade. Problem solved. DACs is not trade resource, it is mainly way for subscribe and to get in-game money for real $/€ (Pay2Skip).

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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So, let's assume I am in PvP and I win against a guy. But what'd you know, he paid money to resurrect on the spot with full health.

Now that kind of feature is Pay-2-Win I guess... right? The other guy utilised a game-mechanic, that has no real counter-play to it and it only needs something physical OFF of the game that is breaking the game's balance.

Now, for all you peasants, what do you think the market-place free economy is? Exactly, economic warfare.  Calculated risks and rewards to go along.

If someone in the game loses all of their assets, they can buy one , two or thirty DACs, sell them, without ANY risk involved on their end. Which, for the ORIGINAL BUYER OF THE DAC, I'm fine with, as he paid the subscription of 1, 2 or 30 players.

The problem some economics' peasants in here do not understand, is that DACs can be hoarded by some players and be dumped in the market in a VERY HIGH PRICE. 

THOSE guys who want to hoard DACs and sell them at 100 times the price value in the market just by sheer market-share dominance? Those guys you are protecting by making DACs completetely unlootable.

What will you do against a group of 100 players who have 99% of the DACs in the market hoarded and put them in the game at an opportune moment and inflate the price 100 times of the 1% in the maket?

That's called "fixing the price" and NovaQuark WON'T protect you from that. They will say "Uh, Emergent Gmeplay, Realistic Economy, We can't help you there, it's not in the EULA players can't fix prices on DACs" and I will be laughing like mad on you fools as I enjoy the hate-mail of people cussing me for fixing the prices on DACs. Why? BEcause I like taking advantage of economics' peasants who cannot understand how values like inflation, deflation and suppy / demand work.

Now, why would I give away my master-plan? It's simple. I like a good challenge. I want to play hide n' seek in DUAL with all of the bounty hunters and with pirates on the location I hid my DACs at, and I cannot feel the thrill of that if my DACs are not lootable and my assets are not on the line.

Unlike some carebears in the forums in general, I do NOT shy away from challenges and difficulties.

Make DACs lootable WHEN the Original Buyer liquidates the DAC. Save the economy. Vote for Option C.

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Buy your DAC, put it safely away (NQ needs to ensure this is possible), and use the dam thing to cover your monthly fee.  End of Story right?   However....  if you are going to use the DAC for another purpose (actually I can think of many) such as transporting a bunch of it somewhere so you can make a huge profit with another corporation or player... then yes, imo it's fair game.  

 

I agree with this.

I'm fine with option B or C!

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Why to buy DAC and have a risk to lose it, when you can buy gold on black market. Cheaper and safer...

 

That is a valid point.

But I wouldnt call it safe. Gold sellers are known to defraud buyers.

 

Its never a good idea to give your financial details to a criminal. ;)

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Why to buy DAC and have a risk to lose it, when you can buy gold on black market. Cheaper and safer.

 

Do not support game! - slogan of steal supporters =)

Shame on you!

Your strawman's arguemtns show you lack strength or honor.

 

We suggest the original buyers who paid real money to have their DACs unlootable until they sell them to someone else via trade, which would require them to "print" the DAC as a physical item in the game.

 

You are a carebear. 

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We suggest the original buyers who paid real money to have their DACs unlootable until they sell them to someone else via trade, which would require them to "print" the DAC as a physical item in the game.

Yeah, this is a good plan

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Like I said in a previous discusion.

 

DAC is a risk free economic commodity.

A player just needs to buy a few DAC from day 1 and has instant acces to power and influence. Essentially bypassing the game.

 

If there was some risk to DAC that would counter balance the effect in some way.

 

Although I'm not claiming to hold the ultimate answer.

 

And as Twerk pointed out I have the impression that the idea of market manipulation is lost on some of you. It is naive to think it will be the players with no money that will benefit from this.

 

'I reserve the right to change my opinion.'

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We suggest the original buyers who paid real money to have their DACs unlootable until they sell them to someone else via trade, which would require them to "print" the DAC as a physical item in the game.

This is the first rational message from you. I would even reply (even I find you as negative poor troll).

 

This is only thing I could accept. Since this DAC buyer (for $/€) received his reward, I don't care much what happens later. All I care, game supporters must get what they deserve/paid for.

 

P.S: I would say 1-2 hours CD after trade would be more fair before DAC become dropable.

 

And you are the last who I will speak with about "Strenght and Honour". You shout louder than anybody else to steal DACs from noobs/stupid players.

 

Archonious

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I agree with cap' twerkmotor, applying a special rule to the DAC item will only break the game overall in immensa consequences.

 

removing the ability to use force to get dacs will in 100% of the cases result in abuse by the protected class: the hoarders.

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This is the first rational message from you. I would even reply (even I find you as negative poor troll).

 

This is only thing I could accept. Since this DAC buyer (for $/€) received his reward, I don't care much what happens later. All I care, game supporters must get what they deserve/paid for.

 

P.S: I would say 1-2 hours CD would be more fair before DAC become dropable.

 

And you are the last who I will speak with about "Strenght and Honour". You shout louder than anybody else to steal DACs from noobs/stupid players.

 

Archonious

Why are you advocating against Option C then? Wait, you didn't read Yamamushi's original post? That's what OPTION C is standing for.

 

 

Original buyers GET their moneys' worth on the DAC for the Dollar/Euro/Pound value, which they can dictate, according to their bartering skills. Nothing can prevent you from shouting "Want To Sell [DAC] : X Spacebucks. Only serious offers". How good you are at keeping up with the market, that's another issue altogether. 

 

The person that buys said DAC, if they consume it right away for the 1 month subscri0ption, they get that month, so they are covered as well.

 

 

Option C makes HOARDING DACs - by opportunists like myself - a risk.

 

 

 

Strength? Honor? I am more of the " high risks / high rewards " kind of guy. Make YOUR strength MY risk... if you can, lol.

 

 

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Why to buy DAC and have a risk to lose it, when you can buy gold on black market. Cheaper and safer.

 

Do not support game! - slogan of steal supporters =)

Shame on you!

 

Don't forget your account might be banned if you take the risk in buying illegal stuff. There is a risk in both ways, however one is a permanent situation that will completelly ruin your game..lol.

Plus, i was under the impression people were suggesting something similar to what this guy said (option B or C):

 

We suggest the original buyers who paid real money to have their DACs unlootable until they sell them to someone else via trade, which would require them to "print" the DAC as a physical item in the game.

 

By far, it looks the best option available right now!

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I just don't understand why being able to steal DAC's is so important. A player can inject DAC's into the economy for goods and services, and you can undo their work and steal their goods. Isn't that equivalent? Is that not good enough? If the answer is no, wouldn't it just boil down to wanting to be able to digitally steal someone's wallet? (kek that's too bad not going to happen).

 

Lets imagine a world where you can't steal DAC's (you know, the world as it's currently going to be)

Lets say at month 6, Territory Units are in high demand and are very resource intensive to build (TU's). These are physical elements that can be built, bought, sold, transported, stolen, destroyed etc. We reach a point that there are enough DAC's in the market that people are willing to trade DAC's for TU's. They are each worth roughly the same spacebux, another currency that can be stolen, destroyed, etc, and they have been equivalent for about a month and are likely to stay equivalent for a while.

 

Why isn't stealing a TU enough? You can turn around and trade it for a DAC. The guy you stole it from traded a DAC for it in the first place. Sure, the demand for TU's could go down, or the supply could increase and hurt it's price, but its the same for DACs. The only real division between stealing DAC's vs TU's in this scenario is that one has an IRL dollar value.

 

So is this boiling down to you guys wanting to be able to really mug people in a video game? That's how it seems

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