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The Great DAC Compromise Poll [Please Read Before Voting]

The Great DAC Compromise  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Please read the post before voting!

    • Option A
      34
    • Option B
      13
    • Option C
      36
    • Option D
      4


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Why don't I vote for C?

 

"Option C - (The Compromise)

Kickstarter DAC's are non-lootable and are "safe" (ie pre-release purchased DAC's follow Option A.)"

 

Option C is illogical at all. Cheap DACs under security, expensive DACs under risk. Nothing about buy/sell changes and other. Don't mess text and other opinions.

 

As I said, I would agree with options when "Owner (let's call those who buy DAC for cash) get his gold for DAC". +short protection after trade (to stop abuse) for DAC usage (some players could be confused for a moment) for 1 hour, as example.

 

Any option, when Owner lose DAC is not acceptable for me (it will hurt reputation of the game, I explained few times), even it is x3 P2W (even I don't think it is like that).

 

Thanks,

Archonious

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Why isn't stealing a TU enough? You can turn around and trade it for a DAC. The guy you stole it from traded a DAC for it in the first place. Sure, the demand for TU's could go down, or the supply could increase and hurt it's price, but its the same for DACs. The only real division between stealing DAC's vs TU's in this scenario is that one has an IRL dollar value.

 

So is this boiling down to you guys wanting to be able to really mug people in a video game? That's how it seems

 

No, it's just that looting a super item that allows you to play the game for free is very exciting...lol. One of the best things in a MMO for me. Plus, it would reduce a little the P2W aspect of the game since there would be a risk for those players that want advantages in it by using real money.

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Ugh and there we have it.

 

Buy a TU for DAC.

 

Congratz now you created a currency that invalidates the spacebuck...

 

As it is right now its just not good.

Even if you cant see it right now.

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There is no connection between being able to steal DAC's and preventing the game from being P2W. You are just tacking on something that people hate to rally support. Time has an impact on games like these, but few games talk about limiting how much time people can play to make it "fair" for people that can't Grind2win. Pay2Win has nothing to do with their decision to keep DAC's from being stealable

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Why don't I vote for C?

 

"Option C - (The Compromise)

Kickstarter DAC's are non-lootable and are "safe" (ie pre-release purchased DAC's follow Option A.)"

 

Option C is illogical at all. Cheap DACs under security, expensive DACs under risk. Nothing about buy/sell changes and other. Don't mess text and other opinions.

 

As I said, I would agree with options when "Owner (let's call those who buy DAC for cash) get his gold for DAC". +short protection after trade (to stop abuse) for DAC usage (some players could be confused for a moment) for 1 hour, as example.

 

Any option, when Owner lose DAC is not acceptable for me (it will hurt reputation of the game, I explained few times), even it is x3 P2W (even I don't think it is like that).

 

Thanks,

Archonious

 

PLEX model = DAC is digital and in-order to be sold to another player it needs to be turned into a physical item in-game, then, it can be sold and it's a risk to keep it on your person for long periods of time. The original buyer is guaranteed their Euros' worth of in-game currency they can manage to sell the DAC for.

 

 

Who do you think will create the trend of playing for "free" by buying in-game playtime extensions? That's right, Ruby and above backers on the kickstarter.

 

That's why their DACs must be "Safe". Those DACs will create the trend of people buying their gametime with in-game currency.

 

That's why it's "The Compromise".

 

Option A makes DACs into Premium Currency, like it's some Free-to-Play game.

 

Option B makes the game a gangster's paradise.

 

Option C is the Compromise, to make the game into the corporate and political flustercuck that it can trully become, and the Backer DACs are limited, as the packages are limited as well.

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PLEX model = DAC is digital and in-order to be sold to another player it needs to be turned into a physical item in-game, then, it can be sold and it's a risk to keep it on your person for long periods of time. The original buyer is guaranteed their Euros' worth of in-game currency they can manage to sell the DAC for.

 

 

Who do you think will create the trend of playing for "free" by buying in-game playtime extensions? That's right, Ruby and above backers on the kickstarter.

 

That's why their DACs must be "Safe". Those DACs will create the trend of people buying their gametime with in-game currency.

 

That's why it's "The Compromise".

 

Option A makes DACs into Premium Currency, like it's some Free-to-Play game.

 

Option B makes the game a gangster's paradise.

 

Option C is the Compromise, to make the game into the corporate and political flustercuck that it can trully become, and the Backer DACs are limited, as the packages are limited as well.

you know so much, can you guess my backer level? :)

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Circular discussion is circular.

 

I'll say it again - people are conflating multiple issues which are only peripherally related - separate them out logically, especially the economic model, much easier to reach rational consensus. I'll be over here eating popcorn on this thread methinks,

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No need to write walls of colourful text. Idea must be simple and understandable.

 

If to choose from A, B and C, I choose A. And no doubt. If there would be clear point (option D): "DAC become lootable 1 hour after first trade operation between players", then I would choose D.

 

I don't know any PLEXes and not interested in. If I see "lootable DAC", that mean DAC could be stolen after player spend $/€.

Thanks,

Archonious

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Interesting that some people wanna stop (at least you get the impression) the public discussion ('I think they alrdy have an official decision') and use sources they didn't knew themselves. Hilariously exciting those dudes.

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I'm against lootable DACs.  I DO believe the main reason they are in game is to give folks who can't afford to subscribe, a way to still be able to earn their game time. There really isn't a better reason to implement them.

 

Now don't get me wrong.  I"m not some "make it all safe candy land player".  I'm all for looting.  I'll take your resources, your ship, your house...whatever.  But I don't want to take real money from folks who can't afford to play in the first place.  How awful would that be if it happened to you?   Not only did you get ganked, now you cant even login to try to salvage some of what you lost in the first place! 

 

IMO, as long as a DAC is still a DAC it should not lootable.  As soon as it's cashed in and used to purchase something in the game, then THAT is what you loot; whatever they bought with it.  Otherwise, you WILL be stealing someone's game time.  And I just don't want people to be able to do that. 

 

I know a lot of folks take games so seriously that they want to only take game-play into account "for the success of the game" and all that.  But in the end, to me, it's just a game.  And I want everyone who wants to play it to be able to.  Makes it more fun for the rest of us.  If we allow some folks to steal other people's real money - no matter what kind of label you want to put on it -  it's only going to run folks off who would otherwise be playing the game.   It makes makes no sense and goes against the spirit of the type of gamers I like to play with. 

 

So, my vote is to just wait until someone cashes one in and then steal what they bought, if you must.  Otherwise, let players keep their RL money...sheesh!

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For awhile now, I was on the side of making DACs unlootable - I didn't understand why there was such a big need to make them lootable, I thought it was just another way for people to get their kicks from other's misery. After reading some of the responses here, I've actually changed my vote to option C, as it actually does strike a good compromise.

 

Unlike some people, I can change my opinions based on well reasoned arguments.

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IMO, as long as a DAC is still a DAC it should not lootable.  As soon as it's cashed in and used to purchase something in the game, then THAT is what you loot; whatever they bought with it.  Otherwise, you WILL be stealing someone's game time.  And I just don't want people to be able to do that. 

 

 

I probably understood wrong but isn't that what the options C or B offer? If the DAC is used to pay the subscription it's unlootable but as soon as the player turns it into a physical item to trade for something else, enemies could steal it. Being it in DAC format or just material bough from the market is ultimately the same thing in the situation i described! Someone correct me if i'm wrong pls...

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I probably understood wrong but isn't that what the options C or B offer? If the DAC is used to pay the subscription it's unlootable but as soon as the player turns it into a physical item to trade for something else, enemies could steal it. Being it in DAC format or just material bough from the market is ultimately the same thing in the situation i described! Someone correct me if i'm wrong pls...

 

the problem with this is, Player X buys the DAC from NQ, and puts it on the market to make in game credits.  Player Y buys it off the market and can use it to add a month of game time to their account.

 

The problem with allowing it to be looted is, if you force them to make it an object, then they have to travel to the market to retrieve it.  where they could possibly be attacked as soon as they do so, therefore loosing their month of game time.  There will be players that try to sucker in players to their area to do this exact thing.

Also, what if Player Y wants to hold onto it, cause he bought it so cheap (under market value) and has 3 weeks of game time left on his current account.  Now he has to worry about losing the DAC if he holds onto it till his time is up (maybe he is in the Military, and is about to go on a 6 month deployment, so it would be a waste to use it NOW)

 

No one is going to go buy a DAC from NQ to then use for game time, when its cheaper to have a subscription.  

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I'm against lootable DACs.  I DO believe the main reason they are in game is to give folks who can't afford to subscribe, a way to still be able to earn their game time. There really isn't a better reason to implement them.

 

Now don't get me wrong.  I"m not some "make it all safe candy land player".  I'm all for looting.  I'll take your resources, your ship, your house...whatever.  But I don't want to take real money from folks who can't afford to play in the first place.  How awful would that be if it happened to you?   Not only did you get ganked, now you cant even login to try to salvage some of what you lost in the first place! 

 

IMO, as long as a DAC is still a DAC it should not lootable.  As soon as it's cashed in and used to purchase something in the game, then THAT is what you loot; whatever they bought with it.  Otherwise, you WILL be stealing someone's game time.  And I just don't want people to be able to do that. 

 

I know a lot of folks take games so seriously that they want to only take game-play into account "for the success of the game" and all that.  But in the end, to me, it's just a game.  And I want everyone who wants to play it to be able to.  Makes it more fun for the rest of us.  If we allow some folks to steal other people's real money - no matter what kind of label you want to put on it -  it's only going to run folks off who would otherwise be playing the game.   It makes makes no sense and goes against the spirit of the type of gamers I like to play with. 

 

So, my vote is to just wait until someone cashes one in and then steal what they bought, if you must.  Otherwise, let players keep their RL money...sheesh!

Ma'am, the original buyer is guaranteed his money's worth of in-game cash. The buyer can consume the DAC on the spot.

 

 

Option B or C, makes sure people who don't need DACs and want to hoard them, run a risk of doing so.

 

Read the PLEX description, it's what the DAC idea originates from.

 

Scenario :

 

 

You buy a DAC. You yell on the chat : "WTS (Want To Sell) DAC. X-number Spacebucks. Only serious PMs".

 

You then wait. A buyer shows up, you figure out the price in bartering and they come to your location.

 

What do you do? You REDEEM the digital DAC, make it an item (that can be looted) and then sell it to the buyer.

 

You got your worth of in-game money for the DAC you bought.

 

Now, let's say the buyer is not one of those who need the DAC because they can just fine afford their subscription. They plan on hoarding the DAC and resell it at a later date to CRASH THE ECONOMY (totally not my plan, I swear).

 

 

Those people, run the liability of keeping the DAC. It's a physical item, thus, they need a safe place to hide it and wait the opportune moment that they can sell the DAC at 10 times the price you sold it to them. 

 

That's what option C or B prevents. People who want to haord DACs and run no risk on their business. You know, "real economy driven by the players". When a good like a DAC cannot be stolen, that DAC becomes a pay-to-win item.

 

We are advocating on the RESELLING of DACs and price-fixing.

 

 

Yes, me and many other people, are in the game for the market manipulation. We are gamblers. And we want risks and rewards.

 

 

If DACs are unlootable from those who buy them low from you and hoard them to dominate the market at a later date, the game has a broken economy.

 

 

Option B and C, guarantee the original buyer their money. Thy guarantee the people playing only with DACs, get their gametime if they consume it on the spot. BUT, it prevents the art of price-fixing, from becoming a no risk business on reselling DACs.

 

 

DACs are digital until the ORIGINAL BUYER TURNS THEM PHYSICAL ITEMS. Until then, the guy who paid REAL MONEY, is safe and sound. Their DAC is unlootable.

 

 

If you can't get this, don't whine when I crash the in-game market and rob all the "poor people" off their money because I'll have the largest market-share on DACs.

 

 

What will NQ do? Ban me? Is it not a real economy they advertise the game on? I can hoard and PRICE-FIX via market dominance. You know, real-life tricks.

 

 

Oh, and before you say "Devs add money in the game". No, they want a stable amount of in-game money in circulation. If I gather over 70% of that money by price-fixing DACs and exploiting people, they can do nothing to stop me. Why? Because if they add more money into the game, I can reintroduce MY money into the game and cause a very VERY unstable and uneasy experience for people who lack the ability to deal with economics, numbers and supply / demand. 

 

What will the Devs do? I played the "Realistic Economy" they advertise the game on, I didn't hack or cheat. I exploited the game's mechanics to the maximum. 

 

 

 

So, if you want DACs to be unlootable, know that I have the patience to do this. A lot of people are unhappy with the fact DACs are unlootable and they back my motion to crash the game's economy on launch, while taunting everyone with things like "I got 1000 DACs on my person but you can't take them from me because they are unlootable, lelelelelelelel".

 

 

We are willing to go that far to make some economics' peasants see the light.

 

 

 

 

Bottom-line is : Don't make my price-fixing plans uncounterable. Ask the Devs to make reselling DACs for a higher price have a risk for the diabolical Twerkmotor who may try this. That way, people can send war-bands after my secret bases in hopes of getting my wealth away from me and also, gives birth to things like BANKS and IVNESTMENT FIRMS (a thing that I actually did in WoW to get money, cause only peasants farm and do daily quests).

 

 

 

 

 

Be a hero. Vote for Option B or C.

 

 

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Ma'am, the original buyer is guaranteed his money's worth of in-game cash. The buyer can consume the DAC on the spot.

 

 

Option B or C, makes sure people who don't need DACs and want to hoard them, run a risk of doing so.

 

Read the PLEX description, it's what the DAC idea originates from.

 

Scenario :

 

 

You buy a DAC. You yell on the chat : "WTS (Want To Sell) DAC. X-number Spacebucks. Only serious PMs".

 

You then wait. A buyer shows up, you figure out the price in bartering and they come to your location.

 

What do you do? You REDEEM the digital DAC, make it an item (that can be looted) and then sell it to the buyer.

 

You got your worth of in-game money for the DAC you bought.

 

Now, let's say the buyer is not one of those who need the DAC because they can just fine afford their subscription. They plan on hoarding the DAC and resell it at a later date to CRASH THE ECONOMY (totally not my plan, I swear).

 

 

Those people, run the liability of keeping the DAC. It's a physical item, thus, they need a safe place to hide it and wait the opportune moment that they can sell the DAC at 10 times the price you sold it to them.

 

That's what option C or B prevents. People who want to haord DACs and run no risk on their business. You know, "real economy driven by the players". When a good like a DAC cannot be stolen, that DAC becomes a pay-to-win item.

 

We are advocating on the RESELLING of DACs and price-fixing.

 

 

Yes, me and many other people, are in the game for the market manipulation. We are gamblers. And we want risks and rewards.

 

 

If DACs are unlootable from those who buy them low from you and hoard them to dominate the market at a later date, the game has a broken economy.

 

 

Option B and C, guarantee the original buyer their money. Thy guarantee the people playing only with DACs, get their gametime if they consume it on the spot. BUT, it prevents the art of price-fixing, from becoming a no risk business on reselling DACs.

 

 

DACs are digital until the ORIGINAL BUYER TURNS THEM PHYSICAL ITEMS. Until then, the guy who paid REAL MONEY, is safe and sound. Their DAC is unlootable.

 

 

If you can't get this, don't whine when I crash the in-game market and rob all the "poor people" off their money because I'll have the largest market-share on DACs.

 

 

What will NQ do? Ban me? Is it not a real economy they advertise the game on? I can hoard and PRICE-FIX via market dominance. You know, real-life tricks.

 

 

Oh, and before you say "Devs add money in the game". No, they want a stable amount of in-game money in circulation. If I gather over 70% of that money by price-fixing DACs and exploiting people, they can do nothing to stop me. Why? Because if they add more money into the game, I can reintroduce MY money into the game and cause a very VERY unstable and uneasy experience for people who lack the ability to deal with economics, numbers and supply / demand.

 

What will the Devs do? I played the "Realistic Economy" they advertise the game on, I didn't hack or cheat. I exploited the game's mechanics to the maximum.

 

 

 

So, if you want DACs to be unlootable, know that I have the patience to do this. A lot of people are unhappy with the fact DACs are unlootable and they back my motion to crash the game's economy on launch, while taunting everyone with things like "I got 1000 DACs on my person but you can't take them from me because they are unlootable, lelelelelelelel".

 

 

We are willing to go that far to make some economics' peasants see the light.

 

 

 

 

Bottom-line is : Don't make my price-fixing plans uncounterable. Ask the Devs to make reselling DACs for a higher price have a risk for the diabolical Twerkmotor who may try this. That way, people can send war-bands after my secret bases in hopes of getting my wealth away from me and also, gives birth to things like BANKS and IVNESTMENT FIRMS (a thing that I actually did in WoW to get money, cause only peasants farm and do daily quests).

 

 

 

 

 

Be a hero. Vote for Option B or C.

 

 

Yep, preech the impossible!

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DACs are digital until the ORIGINAL BUYER TURNS THEM PHYSICAL ITEMS. Until then, the guy who paid REAL MONEY, is safe and sound. Their DAC is unlootable.

 

 

 

Pardon me sir, but I believe I stated that's exactly how I wanted it to be.  Maybe I should have said, "put in play" instead of "cash it in"?

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So, if you want DACs to be unlootable, know that I have the patience to do this. A lot of people are unhappy with the fact DACs are unlootable and they back my motion to crash the game's economy on launch, while taunting everyone with things like "I got 1000 DACs on my person but you can't take them from me because they are unlootable, lelelelelelelel".

 

Are you sure you know how economics work?

Every time around the tournament in EVE exactly that happens with the PLEX System and there is a significant price drop but it always recovers so fast that is almost neglect able.

So good luck with your price crash....

 

And since I don't want to repeat myself over and over, my toughs to this topic:

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/9896-poll-dacs-are-not-physical-objects-and-cannot-be-stolen-or-dropped-upon-death/?p=31170

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I voted option A all DAC are safe because many will enter the game without reading any warnings a will this get robbed. This would produce thousands of appeals to NQ for refunds and probably more that one lawsuit. If you want to be robbed sell a DAC in game load up with valuable cargo and go get robbed.

Everyone knows that this whole debate is driven by the pirate players that know that they can't earn DAC playing pirate only. They will need to find a fence to make a DAC earning profit and any civilisation would hunt down both the fence and the pirate. Any civilisation would hunt down or ostracise known DAC thieves. This is a game, yes but this is also a civilisation building game. Civilisations eliminate pirates or make them navy officers. Historically most European pirates were just navy officers who had come home to discover their king or queen dead. That's why Blackbeards ship was called Queen Ann's Revenge. Most muslim pirates are essentially just navy for some islamic state. Piracy was never anarchy or liberty. 

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I'm the guy that suggested mock lootables. This means that if a pirate or bandit player attacks and kills another player the player victim does not lose his stuff (he may lose a percentage of ores/ parts etc) but he and his ship is 'insured' as in eve. The loot the pirate gets is generated by the game and is in some cases proportional to his inventory or it could be a saleable loot item.

There are three advantages to this:

  • NQ can toss in a few DAC's to attract more players. In this case the pirate gets a DAC but the looted player does not lose one. But these free DAC would reduce income to NQ. All lootable DAC's must cost someone money somewhere. 
  • The looted players don't cry and demand compensation from NQ or lawyer up.
  • If NQ finds that the world gen is running out of resource X they can fix that by bumping the supply of X up in loot.

This will be one of the few game with no lootable NPC so that makes control of resource balances harder.

Remember world gen ores and resources will be locked by seed. They can adjust undiscovered planets but not Alioth or discovered planets. If exploration lags the economy there could be a problem. The key points for fine tuning are Loot or adjusting recycling, there is a disposal machine in the art work. A DAC in a loot chest in a ruins would encourage exploration if that is lagging expectations. 

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Are you sure you know how economics work?

Every time around the tournament in EVE exactly that happens with the PLEX System and there is a significant price drop but it always recovers so fast that is almost neglect able.

So good luck with your price crash....

 

And since I don't want to repeat myself over and over, my toughs to this topic:

https://board.dualthegame.com/index.php?/topic/9896-poll-dacs-are-not-physical-objects-and-cannot-be-stolen-or-dropped-upon-death/?p=31170

Well, PLEX is in EVE is also safe on a station, because you can't walk in and run a heist on a station in EVE. In DUAL, it is possible. Which is why reselling the DAC in DUAL can be very very devastating.

 

 

Also, EVE has NPCs giving quest rewards (money). In DUAL, the Devs plan for bots to introduce a fixed amount of money in circulation.

 

 

And nothing can stop me from playing the market and harvesting all that money. If DACs are unlootable -period- then there's no counterplay on my price-fixing schemes.

 

 

Cheers!

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