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Dual Universe should change it's target audience.


Shaman
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This games best/most fun aspects are its building, lua and PvP ones. I think this game would be much more successful if NQ changed their marketing towards a more 'space engineers' type of playerbase. Not invalidating anyone who has fun with all the other parts of this game but it seems clear to me that most people are disappointed getting into this game for its economy or 'emergent gameplay' aspects. Perhaps if NQ catered to the sandbox building type of players this kind of game would be more successful. I already suggested the community tags 'Sandbox' and 'Building' on the steam page to help this game become less misleading but if the NQ teams could do that manually that could be great. Yet again not invalidating the 3 people who love industry and mining here but frankly this game is just too large in scope to be able to realistically get all these features at a substantial point before NQ runs out of money.

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1 hour ago, Shaman said:

This games best/most fun aspects are its building, lua and PvP ones. I think this game would be much more successful if NQ changed their marketing towards a more 'space engineers' type of playerbase. 

 

- Survival elements like oxygen and energy? 
- NPC enemies like wolves or spiders? 
- Weapons for the avatar to kill NPCs or players?
- NPC ships that attack you?
- Meteoroids that hit planets?
- Mountable mining units on ships?
- Planetary mining (besides on asteroid)?

 

This is exactly why I play Space Engineers, sign me up for this! 

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5 hours ago, Niemand said:

all these other games have one big advantage and that is no sub required and thats the main reason why DU will not survive for long.

 

I disagree. Game will not survive long because it's not in a good state at all.  It's bare bones. People will sub if the game is good, and has content.

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40 minutes ago, CousinSal said:

 

I disagree. Game will not survive long because it's not in a good state at all.  It's bare bones. People will sub if the game is good, and has content.

AngryDad will have at least one raceway ready by the end of week 2 and other event oriented content will pop up fast.  Much of the player made content can be put back in fast.  And let's face it, many are here for the pew pew.

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On 8/26/2022 at 3:05 PM, Wyndle said:

AngryDad will have at least one raceway ready by the end of week 2 and other event oriented content will pop up fast.  Much of the player made content can be put back in fast.  And let's face it, many are here for the pew pew.

OH joy, a race track that will be fun for about 5 minutes and then just more boring repetition like everything else in this game. And lets call it a time trial track because lets be honest you cant actually race anyone reliably without the desync completely ruining the experience

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47 minutes ago, DreadZep said:

OH joy, a race track that will be fun for about 5 minutes and then just more boring repetition like everything else in this game. And lets call it a time trial track because lets be honest you cant actually race anyone reliably without the desync completely ruining the experience

I don’t think building sandbox games are for you.

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On 8/28/2022 at 12:08 PM, Shredder said:

I don’t think building sandbox games are for you.

was DU intended as only a building sandbox or was the intention bigger in kickstarter, like uhm, Building civilization.

 

To be honest, to build civilization alot more is needed then just building or npc missions. what we currently have on earth is a civilization, the new player entry tels us to rebuild civilization after earth is destroyed, that means All pillars, not only building and sadly most pillars are still broken or not in the game at release, or broken, partially there.

 

We are also still waiting on the promised community page since the previous one was cancelled and destroyed what in fact had a huge impact on the community at that point.

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1 hour ago, Aaron Cain said:

was DU intended as only a building sandbox or was the intention bigger in kickstarter, like uhm, Building civilization.

 

To be honest, to build civilization alot more is needed then just building or npc missions. what we currently have on earth is a civilization, the new player entry tels us to rebuild civilization after earth is destroyed, that means All pillars, not only building and sadly most pillars are still broken or not in the game at release, or broken, partially there.

 

We are also still waiting on the promised community page since the previous one was cancelled and destroyed what in fact had a huge impact on the community at that point.

 

Also, every civilization has been forged by violence, and the threat of violence. That means if this is a civilization building game you need to remove all the safe zones. People group up for protection and convenience. 

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15 minutes ago, CousinSal said:

Also, every civilization has been forged by violence, and the threat of violence.  That means if this is a civilization building game you need to remove all the safe zones. People group up for protection and convenience. 

 

Most civilizations immediately begin to work towards ending the violence too.  And the people who lose the early conflicts are dead and don't get to play anymore.

 

If you want hyper realism, you can't just go halfway with it.  If the cost of playing the game, is that i have to PVP.  Then the cost of PVP should be just as harsh and realistic.  Otherwise, you just get to keep attacking me over and over until i eventually just go play something else. 

 

It's a game, it's not a simulation.

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

you just get to keep attacking me over and over until i eventually just go play something else. 

This is why I quit playing laser tag; kids stalking you and shooting you the instant you quit beeping.  I would rather have bruises from paintballs than put up with someone getting a kick out of expressly ruining my fun time.  The same goes for online VR games.

 

I have heard many complaints about the grind in this game.  When I hear that I think about all of the immature people who just want to ruin my fun time without putting in any effort themselves that will get bored before they have a hope of finding me in the 'verse.  I want DU to be successful, but not at the cost of being a worthwhile experience.  For that reason I am also glad that the free players will be on their own server until they put some skin in the game.

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First and foremost, they want to make sure that there is no repeat of August 2020 with the speeders who were left stranded everywhere at the starting point and brought the performance to its knees. 

 

As for PvP... well, the selling point was that you have to expect pvp outside the safezone. Now this is not a world first, as this has been clear to everyone since it was announced at KS in 2016.

 

Whether you like it or not is ultimately your problem, as with any other mmorpg. There are actually people who complain about being attacked by the opposing faction on a PvP realm in WoW, for example.

 

And the same is true here. Even if many tried to twist the narrative and make it a non pvp game, in the end you will lose every player if you drive your credibility to the wall now.

Is the PvP fair? Nope. There are no limits or X vs X scenarios for it, because this is not foreseen in an open, single world, where manpower dominates.

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2 hours ago, Atmosph3rik said:

 

Most civilizations immediately begin to work towards ending the violence too.  And the people who lose the early conflicts are dead and don't get to play anymore.

 

If you want hyper realism, you can't just go halfway with it.  If the cost of playing the game, is that i have to PVP.  Then the cost of PVP should be just as harsh and realistic.  Otherwise, you just get to keep attacking me over and over until i eventually just go play something else. 

 

It's a game, it's not a simulation.

 

 

 

 

 

This is a game not a simulation.  I'm talking gameplay.  And if you want a building civilization you need pvp gameplay.  And don't act like I'm talking nonsense, the kickstarter literally said only Sanctuary was safe zone and that would be severely limited on what you can do. So if you wanted to progress you had to go out in the world where pvp was. The gameplay was people grouping up for "temp" safe zones and protection bubbles. Similar to how EvE does.  You've been around long enough here you should know better, and know I'm not talking about some hyper simulation. But the reality is, if we can't attack and defend other people's tile, the game will be stale as [filtered] and boring, not to mention that also means NQ lied about what features they were putting in to build a civilization building game. 

Edited by CousinSal
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21 hours ago, CousinSal said:

And don't act like I'm talking nonsense, the kickstarter literally said only Sanctuary was safe zone and that would be severely limited on what you can do.

 

The Kickstarter didn't say that. 

 

 

 

If i'm remembering correctly Sanctuary wasn't even added until the beginning of Beta, after the Kickstarter ended.  Sanctuary was not mentioned at all in the Kickstarter.

 

But either way, all that was mentioned about PVP in the Kickstarter was that there would be PVP, and there would be safe zones, (plural, they were planning on multiple safe zones at that time) And that "Both PvP and non-PvP will be possible".  That's it.

 

22 hours ago, CousinSal said:

But the reality is, if we can't attack and defend other people's tile, the game will be stale as [filtered] and boring, not to mention that also means NQ lied about what features they were putting in to build a civilization building game

 

This is already planned.  No one is against it.  The only reason we are having this discussion is because you demanded that they remove all the safe zones.

 

On 8/29/2022 at 9:42 AM, CousinSal said:

That means if this is a civilization building game you need to remove all the safe zones

 

You're the one asking NQ to do something that would go directly against what the promised in the Kickstarter.

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30 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

You're the one asking NQ to do something that would go directly against what the promised in the Kickstarter.

 

The 2016 interviews around the KS framework have always talked about a 20km safe zone radius around the Ark Ship. And it was always planned to have several Ark ships also for the future. Here is a source from 2016. It was used to advertise the KS campaign.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/building-a-space-sim-in-a-post-no-mans-sky-world

 

Edit:

As for the Sanctuary Moon, that's what was said back in 2018 about what they should be. Unfortunately, these links do not work.

 

 

Edit 2:

 

Thanks to webarchive - this can be found:

http://web.archive.org/web/20180311083616/http://www.dualthegame.com/en/news/2018/03/02/more-info-on-sanctuary-territory-units/

 

Edit 3:

 

And here is the article mentioned in the post from Edit 2:

http://web.archive.org/web/20200808141938/https://www.dualthegame.com/en/news/2018/01/30/our-toughts-on-territory-protection-mechanics/

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16 minutes ago, SirJohn85 said:

The 2016 interviews around the KS framework have always talked about a 20km safe zone radius around the Ark Ship. And it was always planned to have several Ark ships also for the future. Here is a source from 2016. It was used to advertise the KS campaign.

 

They were originally considering multiple Safe Zones.  And instead, they decided to go with one single Safe Zone.

 

Their intention was always to provide room for PVP, and room for non-PVP.

 

That's what we have now.

 

As the game grows, or fluctuates, they may need to add more of either one of those things.

 

The intention has always been to provide room in the game for everyone to enjoy it.

 

The constant begging from certain PVP players, for NQ to squeeze people out of the Safe zone by making it smaller, and into PVP space, so they can shoot at them, is silly.

 

It won't drive those players out of the Safe Zone, it will drive them out of the game.

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30 minutes ago, Atmosph3rik said:

The constant begging from certain PVP players, for NQ to squeeze people out of the Safe zone by making it smaller, and into PVP space, so they can shoot at them, is silly.

 

It won't drive those players out of the Safe Zone, it will drive them out of the game.

 

How can it be silly if that's a selling point as to why people left money in the first place?

You've been around long enough to know which big orgs were there and what they always wanted. 

 

How many of them are left? We now have what we have. Will that be enough?

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49 minutes ago, SirJohn85 said:

 

 

 

How many of them are left? We now have what we have. Will that be enough?

 

Exactly, that's a good point.  I was around the whole alpha and there was so many more big orgs ready for the game that was promised, pvp and only sanc as safe zone. Sure the game can fluctuate as it develops,  but it can fluctuate in the wrong direction.  

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On 8/26/2022 at 8:10 AM, Niemand said:

all these other games have one big advantage and that is no sub required and thats the main reason why DU will not survive for long.

Okay, here's a few things about Space Engineers. 1. It's not free, you have to buy the game, and if the server you want to play on is using the purchased DLCs, you have to buy the DLCs 2. Servers cost money to run every month and someone has to pay it.  It doesn't matter if you're renting a server or running one from home, there is a cost.  Now for some home servers all the cost is just the extra electricity and the normal maintenance of the server, but for others the server owner has to pay a much higher price to their ISP for the necessary bandwidth for the server to run properly.  Who pays for it, well the server owner/operator of course, and sometimes the couple of friends that got together with the owner to get the server started.

All of the 'free' online games out there aren't really free, there is a cost involved in them somewhere.  Maybe you're paying for it just by the ads you have to click through at times.  Maybe it's paid for by all the costumes, skins, armor, and weapons that are available to purchase by cash/credit.  Maybe it's paid for by any donations the people running the game servers receive.  However the costs for the games are paid for, they are being paid for, at least until the day they aren't being paid anymore, then the game goes away.  

 

So anyways, here's Dual Universe they have decided to offset the costs of running the game, the players will pay a subscription of some sort.  You pay the subscription, you can play, you don't pay the subscription, you don't get to play, simple as that.  All of those other 'Free-to-play' MMOs out there have some gimmick to get money, and so long as their particular gimmick keeps giving them enough money to pay the bills every month they won't go to a subscription, but when the gimmick fails to get them enough money, that's when you see a previously free-to-play MMO suddenly talking about requiring a subscription in the future, or just completely shutting down.  

 

Anyways, I've said my part, agree with it, don't agree with it, I really don't care.  Just remember, there is always some type of cost, sometimes you get to see what the cost is, sometimes you don't.

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On 8/26/2022 at 10:22 PM, CousinSal said:

 

I disagree. Game will not survive long because it's not in a good state at all.  It's bare bones. People will sub if the game is good, and has content.


The game is not released yet people are saying projecting their insecurities on the forums. lol

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1 minute ago, Elitez said:


The game is not released yet people are saying projecting their insecurities on the forums. lol

Isn't that the same for any game?  Players projecting insecurity on the forums that is.

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3 hours ago, Elitez said:


The game is not released yet people are saying projecting their insecurities on the forums. lol

People are projecting their long term experiences with DU / NQ, you might not like them and it might sound negative, but in reality it is feedback for what people think is wrong and should not be taken personal.

In NQ case that feedback has been ignored for a long time, so it has turned a sour as people again and again are being let down by NQ.

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29 minutes ago, Kurosawa said:

People are projecting their long term experiences with DU / NQ, you might not like them and it might sound negative, but in reality it is feedback for what people think is wrong and should not be taken personal.

In NQ case that feedback has been ignored for a long time, so it has turned a sour as people again and again are being let down by NQ.

Show me the feedback in that dude's post.

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1 minute ago, Elitez said:

Yes but why? Who asked him to be here if he doesnt like the game?

 

Some of the people in this forum have been dumping cash and attention onto this game since before anyone could even download the pre-Alpha client.  Perhaps the "not liking" you are perceiving is frustration from losing a version of the game they did like?  Or they could be a troll.  I would test the latter but my supply of troll food is running low and it's a long walk back to my ship.

 

Did anyone ask you to be on this forum?  I know I wasn't asked, though I've gotten hints that some may want to ask me to leave.

 

FYI:  the Plus (+) button next to the quote button is for multi-quoting in a single post.

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