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Will you continue playing after core changes? & Will NQ do a better job when they announce next nerf: Power System?


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Will you continue playing after core changes? & Will NQ do a better job when they announce next nerf: Power System?  

125 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you continue playing after core changes?

    • Yes
      47
    • No
      78
  2. 2. Do you think NQ will do a better job at announcing the next nerf: Power System?

    • Yes
      30
    • No
      95


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I'm just absolutely astounded at the proposed core limit.  Assuming you have your talents maxed for org constructs, you get 25 plus your 15 personal.  I had guessed something like this was coming, but I imagined maybe a 100 core limit for orgs and only one personal org per player.  This is just astounding.  I really feel like I should be mad, but I'm so burnt out on taking what changes we are given and working around them that I just cannot muster anything other than shocked laughter.

Edited by Durk23
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11 minutes ago, Durk23 said:

I'm just absolutely astounded at the proposed core limit.  Assuming you have your talents maxed for org constructs, you get 25 plus your 15 personal.  I had guessed something like this was coming, but I imagined maybe a 100 core limit for orgs and only one personal org per player.  This is just astounding.  I really feel like I should be mad, but I'm so burnt out on taking what changes we are given and working around them that I just cannot muster anything other than shocked laughter.

For a game based on building, they certainly don't want us to build.

 

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I started playing because it was SOLD as "rebuild civilization"

 

I don't PVP I enjoy building and doing Industry.

We pay to play this game and it looks like the developers are doing everything possible to make us quit. The enjoyment I got from playing is slowly being sucked out one update at a time.

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My two cents. 

 

NQ please pay attention to this post. If you continue with these changes, myself and 8 of my closest friends who play are simply done.  This does not include my discord friends around the world who are saying the same. 

 

Games like this, in beta (theoretically) are public betas for a reason.  These betas answer bleeding questions from all angles, players, providers, and designers.  The end result should be streamlined product based on a set of production and product goals.  That said, Dual Universe is supposed to be a sandbox.  Please revisit that term before you continue reading.

 

There are quite a few of us who come from other games, large, small, beta, alpha, hated and loved.  Most of us have been gaming for many, many years.  DU has a specific demographic that really enjoys what this game can do.  Part of that demographic is a collection of "epic" players - players that want to do something huge in a game world.  Build a castle, build a city, build a starport, build a space station, build an empire, build a legend.  We need far more than a single one of those players for the game to develop a truly functional economy and playerbase.  During the foundational stages of this game, you're building the core of the playerbase, supposedly loyal to a fault, who will encourage others to join, who will stream, be the public voice, the advertising, the leads, the reason why others want to play.  When those others join the game, whether they join the voice who encouraged them or some other 'org', the end result is the same, they mostly want to be part of something epic, or build something epic themselves.  Many, many people have built epic level structures in this game thus far.  I'll call epic anything larger than 20 joined L cores for now, but maybe I'm thinking too small.  Lets go with 20.  

 

I can name, for hours, the incredible structures that exist in this game.  Some are plain, without accoutrement, and simply legendary in size.  Some are small-ish and so detailed you can spend days wandering their halls.  These structures exist to create a universe of diversity and a future scale of living that will accommodate thousands, not simply the meagre playerbase that DU currently has.  Us "epic" builders are not building these structures/ships/cities for ourselves to stand on the top and say "Look what I have done!," we're building them with the goal that future players will say "Look what they did" and want to join us and become part of this epic universe. 

 

Yes, there are some truly independent, solo players that fall outside this realm, but this message isn't to address them.  

 

You're about to kill off the reason some of us came to this game:  Epic design.  I first saw the starbase and ship museums on Youtube the day of beta launch.  My first thought was "I need into this, I can see an entire massive station, docking rings, construction bays, vendors, people trading, piracy and dark deeds happening in the underbelly."  Think babylon 5, lets go there with an example.  My first thought was simply, lets build something amazing that everyone wants to be part of or blow up.  This includes ships, a fleet prepped for my friends, new players, or just to give away.  Lets build a station where they can trade those things.  Lets make alliances with other orgs that also build legendary things on planets, and on other planets, in space, and even PVP groups. Lets build a massive hub for trade and exploration, and ships to match!

 

Then the factory changes.   Made sense but made some people mad.  Fine, we moved past that hurdle.  Then the mining changes.  After some math, patience and scanning, we can adapt to that too. Digging wasn't as fun and this allowed us to build more!  Ok, we can handle this.  

 

Now, I'd have to own 6 accounts to keep what I have built.  Simply to exist. Simply to keep some miners going so I can make voxels to build..what?  What would I build?  No more cores, space, static or dynamic.  I'll be all out.    Sure, players can donate slots.  This also can lead to trust issues, blackmail, and all kinds of other nefarious issues.  Fine, prepare for them as an org leader and buy more accounts to ensure the trustworthy hold the key cores... but wait.  What about new players?

 

When your playerbase becomes increasingly vocal that certain changes are going to cause not a ripple, but a tidal wave, in your game, its time to take heed.  Those players are your advertising, and believe right now that on discords around the world, and message boards everywhere, people are angry, disappointed and worse.   There are changes to the game that haven't been asked for, but are being done for financial reasons, some of the player complaints and requests are being completely ignored, and others are finally being implemented but with half-hearted effort.  

 

Its time to listen to the players.  Work out the core issue, the core counts. Figure out org cores, maybe attach a set number to only a Superlegate of an org and restrict him to super of only one org.  Something that makes more sense than each player having to donate core space and being able to hold it over an orgs head.  Don't forget, many of us come from Eve.  I've got a few suggestions, if you're interested PM me and lets go from there, I'm not interested in being lambasted on a forum by a few trolls.  But you need to listen to the players, because you're on a dangerous precipice from which you may never drag back your legendary gamers. 

 

Just my two and a half cents. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Mirantha said:

My two cents. 

 

NQ please pay attention to this post. If you continue with these changes, myself and 8 of my closest friends who play are simply done.  This does not include my discord friends around the world who are saying the same. 

 

Games like this, in beta (theoretically) are public betas for a reason.  These betas answer bleeding questions from all angles, players, providers, and designers.  The end result should be streamlined product based on a set of production and product goals.  That said, Dual Universe is supposed to be a sandbox.  Please revisit that term before you continue reading.

 

There are quite a few of us who come from other games, large, small, beta, alpha, hated and loved.  Most of us have been gaming for many, many years.  DU has a specific demographic that really enjoys what this game can do.  Part of that demographic is a collection of "epic" players - players that want to do something huge in a game world.  Build a castle, build a city, build a starport, build a space station, build an empire, build a legend.  We need far more than a single one of those players for the game to develop a truly functional economy and playerbase.  During the foundational stages of this game, you're building the core of the playerbase, supposedly loyal to a fault, who will encourage others to join, who will stream, be the public voice, the advertising, the leads, the reason why others want to play.  When those others join the game, whether they join the voice who encouraged them or some other 'org', the end result is the same, they mostly want to be part of something epic, or build something epic themselves.  Many, many people have built epic level structures in this game thus far.  I'll call epic anything larger than 20 joined L cores for now, but maybe I'm thinking too small.  Lets go with 20.  

 

I can name, for hours, the incredible structures that exist in this game.  Some are plain, without accoutrement, and simply legendary in size.  Some are small-ish and so detailed you can spend days wandering their halls.  These structures exist to create a universe of diversity and a future scale of living that will accommodate thousands, not simply the meagre playerbase that DU currently has.  Us "epic" builders are not building these structures/ships/cities for ourselves to stand on the top and say "Look what I have done!," we're building them with the goal that future players will say "Look what they did" and want to join us and become part of this epic universe. 

 

Yes, there are some truly independent, solo players that fall outside this realm, but this message isn't to address them.  

 

You're about to kill off the reason some of us came to this game:  Epic design.  I first saw the starbase and ship museums on Youtube the day of beta launch.  My first thought was "I need into this, I can see an entire massive station, docking rings, construction bays, vendors, people trading, piracy and dark deeds happening in the underbelly."  Think babylon 5, lets go there with an example.  My first thought was simply, lets build something amazing that everyone wants to be part of or blow up.  This includes ships, a fleet prepped for my friends, new players, or just to give away.  Lets build a station where they can trade those things.  Lets make alliances with other orgs that also build legendary things on planets, and on other planets, in space, and even PVP groups. Lets build a massive hub for trade and exploration, and ships to match!

 

Then the factory changes.   Made sense but made some people mad.  Fine, we moved past that hurdle.  Then the mining changes.  After some math, patience and scanning, we can adapt to that too. Digging wasn't as fun and this allowed us to build more!  Ok, we can handle this.  

 

Now, I'd have to own 6 accounts to keep what I have built.  Simply to exist. Simply to keep some miners going so I can make voxels to build..what?  What would I build?  No more cores, space, static or dynamic.  I'll be all out.    Sure, players can donate slots.  This also can lead to trust issues, blackmail, and all kinds of other nefarious issues.  Fine, prepare for them as an org leader and buy more accounts to ensure the trustworthy hold the key cores... but wait.  What about new players?

 

When your playerbase becomes increasingly vocal that certain changes are going to cause not a ripple, but a tidal wave, in your game, its time to take heed.  Those players are your advertising, and believe right now that on discords around the world, and message boards everywhere, people are angry, disappointed and worse.   There are changes to the game that haven't been asked for, but are being done for financial reasons, some of the player complaints and requests are being completely ignored, and others are finally being implemented but with half-hearted effort.  

 

Its time to listen to the players.  Work out the core issue, the core counts. Figure out org cores, maybe attach a set number to only a Superlegate of an org and restrict him to super of only one org.  Something that makes more sense than each player having to donate core space and being able to hold it over an orgs head.  Don't forget, many of us come from Eve.  I've got a few suggestions, if you're interested PM me and lets go from there, I'm not interested in being lambasted on a forum by a few trolls.  But you need to listen to the players, because you're on a dangerous precipice from which you may never drag back your legendary gamers. 

 

Just my two and a half cents. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said. I agree 100% with this, well put together, response to these uninspiring moves NQ is making. This new proposal is creating a hole in which snakes can slither through, torment, ruin, and collapse Organization, good Organization.  Organization that are right there to help new players learn, understand, & enjoy this outstanding game. Yes, outstanding. However, at this rate, it will no longer fit in that category. So listen to what Mirantha is trying to say to you. Right on the money here.

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I wont quit because of the new 25 per character core limit because I have enough alts to boost up my personal Org. However once the game is out of beta and the beta keys no longer give free game subs I'm going down to 1 character or less and it's looking more like less is going to be the better option. Just glad I didn't spend my time building some 100 core mega tower or similar project. 

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The recipe to make people want to come back to the old ones, to allow them to play the new ones and to allow the current players to continue is simple: 
 

- Remove the shematic T1 or put it on sale for FREE in the market (to allow the solo player to play and discover the world of DU without constraint)
- Increase the price of the shematic T2, T3, T4 and T5 in order to create a logical evolution in technology and to counterbalance the free shematic T1
- Removal of the differentiation between organization and personal cores and implementation of a total number of cores (50 basic + 100 others with talents for a total of 150 cores per account) The core slots could be used either as personal or organization cores (at the choice of the players with the same system proposed by you)
- REWORK of the PVP system in order to give back their usefulness to the voxel without making them cheater I don't have the recipe for this question but it's really important.
- Removal of the tax of tiles in PVP zone when the implementation of the atmospheric pvp will take place (The tax can be included in PVE zone, one can think that this zone is defended by aphelia and that thus we must pay. However it is not the case in PVP zone and, the tax has no sense neither in the lore, nor in the logic) 
- Increase the number of asteroids available in the universe and allow the discovery of exceptional asteroids (meganode ?)
- To set up a system of space base pve abandoned and defended by automatic turrets to create play in the universe.

 

I think that these ideas could bring what is missing in DU to give desire to play. But I'm just a simple player...

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to put this in perspective, a minimum optimised mining site consists of 3 tiles and will usually only provide 1 ore at 100%, even if we assume 2 ores for some tiles that means a player needs ~12 cores to get all t1 ores, they need at least 2 cores for ships (one space capable and one pocket rocket) so a player getting t1 ore for themselves living on one of their mining tiles for HC and basic industry with only 2 ships for personal use needs 14 cores. With these changes assuming maximum core capacity for every player and all cores outside of this base requirement are signed over to an org you need 10 players to be able to just gather up to t5 ore for the group and literally nobody in that org can have more than 3 personal cores. There is no way something like UNet's Utopia, IC's citadel or any of the other super structure builds can exist with this being implemented as is. Given this will straight up kill the ability for people to participate in multiple things since any gameplay mechanic has a dedicated core requirement you should be doing a full skill refund so that people can at least be good at the one thing you are going to let them engage with through this.

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As soon as this bullshit goes live our crew is ups. Whats the [filtered]ing point?

 

Were not going to spend the next 1-2 week ripping down cores by hand. You basically get a mining opperation and 5 cores and its basically set up so that you get like 1 static construct base, 1-2 ships and a couple slots to just loot everything you can steal. Orgs are basically useless except for giving away your 12 cores to them for the MU bonuses and even still it [filtered]s up all the perms to where you have to rip everything down just to put it back up and rename everything again. There are just so many aspects of the game this [filtered]s up and kneecaps and really its taking everything I have to not just go full rage atm.

 

Whoever suggested this bullshit needs to be fired tomorrow.

The lead dev should be fired.

The CEO/President needs to be fired.

 

At this point if they are bleeding money this bad that they are going to essentially kill this own game over this they need new leadership who will take this game in any kind of stable direction instead of flip flob updates and blowing any direction in the wind trying to waste time with mostly pointless updates and slashing costs. They need to all go.

 

This game needs a cash shop or at the very least a fluff shop with actual tangible things to buy. If thats XL cores, T6-10 parts, pets, exclusive voxels or whatever the [filtered] they have to sell it needs to be done pronto.

 

Otherwise this game is done in a month or when subs renew. Its game over folks nothing to see here anymore.

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I agree their reasoning for this sudden change needs to be explained, however until they do explain it I think it's unfair to assume we know what that reasoning is.

Assuming that their reasoning is cutting server costs, I think adding a shop that sells skins for items would be the priority long before a change like this comes in. I really would like to see the game steer clear of Pay2Win, so I really wouldn't want to see T6 items or other unacquirables in there. Skins, pets, fireworks, even special voxel types (that dont have insane resistances) would be fair game.

AN ALTERNATIVE: Once which seems fairly obvious to me, but one that should have been looked into long before this change was brought forward. Why don't you allow people to place miners on a single core that straddles two or three tiles? The same way that territory scanners work. That would cut every mining operation's core count by 2/3rd's on average, WITHOUT impacting anyone negatively.

To NQ, it seems like you are trying to funnel people with your gameplay. Most people that play games like this are into crafting and resource gathering. Both of those aspects of the game are effectively offline, and there's no actual gameplay to be had doing those things. The only things we're left with are building and PvP. We all know PvP sucks atm. It's not engaging, it's not fun, it's not rewarding. And you just kicked all builders in the nuts with this patch.

I'm not really sure what your goal is, but it seems like you just want people to pay you and not actually get any gameplay in return.

As a solo player that has done fairly well for themselves since starting to play the game, I already have well over the amount of cores deployed than this limit will allow me once fully talented. Even if I train talents on my alt account and donate the cores to my personal org, I'm still looking at getting rid of about 15-25 cores.

But what will I do after that? I can't build anything, cause I can't place any more cores? PvP is not worth engaging in. Resource gathering and crafting are offline. What gameplay is left for me now that building is off the table?

Edited by EpicPhail
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So much noise..

 

In the end, NQ will tweak the number a bit and most of the tears will dry.. This was unavoidable and needed. Sucks for those who took advantage of what is clearly a broken part of the game and I get the frustration, but it needed to be done.

I can only hope NQ has enough of a spine to weather this storm of noise. They'll come out stronger and more prepared for launch on the other side, something quite a few seem to not understand.


But at the same time, they will just make the same mistakes again when it comes to the eventual power management. Communication is their Achilles heel.

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These changes are needed. How the hell could you think you can have hundred of hundred core without limit ?

Could you imagine if 50 000 people do the same where each guy could deploy hundred of hundrer core ?

There is already too many core useless on planets, in space, many ships are abandonned no where and no one can do some thing with it.

 

Yes ofc 42 core for a solo player is low. But a solo player should not be authorize to have all alone ! This is a MMO not a solo game.

People must interact each others, directly (trade for ressource, for ship, for element, by pvp, handling) or indirectly (market, sell / buy, Lua, Voxel libray, etc.)

 

 

Edited by Kanamechan
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6 hours ago, blazemonger said:

So much noise..

 

In the end, NQ will tweak the number a bit and most of the tears will dry.. This was unavoidable and needed. Sucks for those who took advantage of what is clearly a broken part of the game and I get the frustration, but it needed to be done.

I can only hope NQ has enough of a spine to weather this storm of noise. They'll come out stronger and more prepared for launch on the other side, something quite a few seem to not understand.


But at the same time, they will just make the same mistakes again when it comes to the eventual power management. Communication is their Achilles heel.


We didn't take advantage of it, we have 100 cores just for mining units they forces on us.  It's like they gave us a gun to shoot ourselves.  No more building, landing pads, ship showrooms.  This game is done with this change, atleast my 3 accounts are gone.

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The core count is way to low going to destroy all the large builds in the game -- Freeport, IC-Spaceport, any Raceway so there goes friday night races ... most major shipbuilders ... a fair number would be between 75 and 100 cores for an org.  have 75 before talents and allow it upto 100 after talents .. I'm a single person org and was in the process of building a community musuem of statues and artwork created throughout DU and displaying it for anyone to come and view ... just that aspect alone will cost me almost 20 slots --- I'm running 80 slots with maybe 20-25 cores of voxel libraries and unused ships i can break down but wont be able to reach the 25 without erasing a ton of content.  ... I'd be more than happy to keep the 1mil a week tax if it meant not changing the core counts from what they currently are.

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If you have three accounts, this means you have 126 cores IF nothing changes in the numbers

I still do not get why solo players deploy 100+ mining units. Well I do, it's because you are trying to play a MMO by yourself and guess what, that's not going to work, or at least should not work.

If you choose to play alone, you should experience limits in what you can do and as it stands DU pretty much still allows anyone to do everything as NQ has so far mostly dialled back anything they implemented to try and drive the MMO gameplay one should expect to be seen.

 

If players keep playing alone, the game will never go anywhere. You _should not be able to do it all by yourself_ , that is the very fundamental basis on which MMO games are built. Using Org cores for personal use was never intended to be a thing and yes, while you can and should hold NQ accountable for allowing it to  happen anyway and not deal with this before they opened the gates of subs. NQ certainly is to blame for this messy situation, but the action they now take is needed.

It's very clear from the majority of comments, too many are just running around in their own little bubble, trying to be one man mega companies. That is just not going to work.

 

This action I believe is also quietly intended to counter the looming exploit of hundreds upon hundreds of cores for beta key accounts, stacked under a single main one, all of which will remain in game and active as the beta accounts end on launch. I expect NQ is trying to work towards a point where they will not have to wipe come launch (which I believe they wil need to do anyway) and this is certainly a part of that plan.

 

Lastly, launch is not "far away".. I'm pretty sure we are close to counting down to launch in single digit months.

 

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20 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Lastly, launch is not "far away".. I'm pretty sure we are close to counting down to launch in single digit months.

 

I agree with Blaze -- launch is coming as surely as winter, and no one should really be surprised. 

 

We saw with Demeter that their goal was to cut costs. It's been mentioned many times that more limits would be coming...

 

It's a fundamental fact that more building means more cost -- this is an immutable aspect of every MMO building game. Yes, DU advertised itself as being able to "build without limits" and that was a spectacularly stupid thing, but we've know that this isn't a true statement for a long long time now. 

 

This is obviously not great for the game's future, but is yet another symptom of long-long-standing issues with refusing to plan their game beyond throwing ideas at a wall and seeing what sticks. 

 

When everything settles, people will maybe realize that NQ wasn't being "ambitious" or "innovative" with their design, they were being naive -- and chronically refused to do due diligence in understanding how their persistently online product would work with real-world scale.

 

The last few months of changes reinforce this idea that they never stopped to plan this project -- they just kept slapping ideas onto a prototype until things started to break. This is exactly how novice game devs tend to work, and yet another grim legacy of JC's time at the helm. It was said back when he was replaced that it likely wouldn't matter -- that the damage was already done...and the last few months really reinforces that idea. 

 

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Man p1$$ off with these devs...

Really really what the hell is this?

Are they saying once more: you have wasted all your time and money! It was all for nothing!!!

 

I have a 170+ core spacestation based on an asteroid in thades rings.

I started building in april and while its base is finished, I am now 9 months further and making it beautiful with trees, npc's and lots of different coloured ship.

 

Its a place for myself to enjoy all my builds. I have never touched a MU because I had so many ore in stock.

I was planning to take a break from the game and leave the base for many others to enjoy and see some ideas.

 

So many times these devs are saying to builders: you have just wasted all your time and money for nothing.

 

This is the final straw for me.. I will play because my subscription is still on for 3 more months. But after that I am never coming back to a game that wants to delete all my VERY HARD work.

 

Not even asking devs why they are doing this. They can stick this game......

 

And to all those NQ fanboys who actually think this is a good idea: go ahead and play a game in an empty world.

 

Im going to Narnia....

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17 hours ago, Durk23 said:

I'm just absolutely astounded at the proposed core limit.  Assuming you have your talents maxed for org constructs, you get 25 plus your 15 personal.  I had guessed something like this was coming, but I imagined maybe a 100 core limit for orgs and only one personal org per player.  This is just astounding.  I really feel like I should be mad, but I'm so burnt out on taking what changes we are given and working around them that I just cannot muster anything other than shocked laughter.

I think this best describes my take. The change is just so incredibly bad. 
 

On top of the terrible idea and impact it would have on DU, NQ continues to demonstrate a complete and total lack of understanding for change management. They introduce these radical changes and just toss them out there thinking people will, or can, digest the changes. It’s all done so poorly. 

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