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New obstruction is too extreme


Hachiro
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People who love this stacking update are just DU fanboys. Making up excuses for NQ's strange choices. Saying things like: the brake change is logical, or that things always change in a beta version. You cannot die in this game, we can breathe in space, nor do we need food or rest.

There is absolutely no reason for these changes and there is absolutely no need for them.

 

Its just a big middle finger to builders. I can now throw away 1,5 years of shipbuilding. All for nothing. Even ships build with the brake change in mind are now 'broken' because of 'stacking'. My ships are parked at my base for display now. I had set up a shop with displayed ships and  bp's but I can throw away all 1000 bp"s now. The displayed ships need to be dismantled because they serve no purpose.

 

And please... Can 1 fanboy please explain to me what shipbuilders are going to love this game more, because of these changes? I don't see any  players in the world entering this game because "the brakes are on the outside like it should be" or "its unrealistic to put engines next to each other". Someone please tell me what this improves to ones builds in any way.

 

If it was like, putting elements close together will generate too much heat or something. Then it would be a challenge for builders to implement the cooling system. But now its just, because NQ wants to implement a fancy build system that is not even balanced in any way.

 

Im pretty sure AGG pulsars will also be needed at the bottom of your ships soon. After that we will need shields to be in the middle of the ship, warp drives to be placed vertical. Fuel tanks cannot sit beside an engine. Lights on the left side of your ship must be green and for every passenger seat you must pay taxes.

 

It simply doesn't make any sense at all and it will certainly not attract builders. Haven't seen anyone quit this game because the brakes are on the inside, but Ive seen people quit this game because they now MUST go on the outside. What will the mighty NQ do now?

 

From a "you can do and build anything" game to a "meaningless chores and rules" game

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8 hours ago, Sabretooth said:

People who love this stacking update are just DU fanboys. Making up excuses for NQ's strange choices. Saying things like: the brake change is logical, or that things always change in a beta version. You cannot die in this game, we can breathe in space, nor do we need food or rest.

There is absolutely no reason for these changes and there is absolutely no need for them.

 

Its just a big middle finger to builders. I can now throw away 1,5 years of shipbuilding. All for nothing. Even ships build with the brake change in mind are now 'broken' because of 'stacking'. My ships are parked at my base for display now. I had set up a shop with displayed ships and  bp's but I can throw away all 1000 bp"s now. The displayed ships need to be dismantled because they serve no purpose.

 

And please... Can 1 fanboy please explain to me what shipbuilders are going to love this game more, because of these changes? I don't see any  players in the world entering this game because "the brakes are on the outside like it should be" or "its unrealistic to put engines next to each other". Someone please tell me what this improves to ones builds in any way.

 

If it was like, putting elements close together will generate too much heat or something. Then it would be a challenge for builders to implement the cooling system. But now its just, because NQ wants to implement a fancy build system that is not even balanced in any way.

 

Im pretty sure AGG pulsars will also be needed at the bottom of your ships soon. After that we will need shields to be in the middle of the ship, warp drives to be placed vertical. Fuel tanks cannot sit beside an engine. Lights on the left side of your ship must be green and for every passenger seat you must pay taxes.

 

It simply doesn't make any sense at all and it will certainly not attract builders. Haven't seen anyone quit this game because the brakes are on the inside, but Ive seen people quit this game because they now MUST go on the outside. What will the mighty NQ do now?

 

From a "you can do and build anything" game to a "meaningless chores and rules" game

 

Im not a fanboi but it's my opinion they need to remove the building of the game, or make it completely on the back burner.  Building won't attract thousands and hopefully 10s of thousands to play, not in the context of how NQ had built this game. The only real uniqueness of DU is supposed to be the single shard.  But it is vastly under used.  The "game" and I use that term loosely needs actual gameplay and content. Where is the politics promised? Where is some sort of exploration, NPC spawns that drop something other than ore, where is the massive orgs controlling planets and going to war or making alliances, etc etc.   If building is to be the main focus they coulda scraped the whole single shard, and make players pay for their own servers then NQ maybe coulda eeeked out a small profit. 

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7 hours ago, VandelayIndustries said:

 

Im not a fanboi but it's my opinion they need to remove the building of the game, or make it completely on the back burner.  Building won't attract thousands and hopefully 10s of thousands to play, not in the context of how NQ had built this game. The only real uniqueness of DU is supposed to be the single shard.  But it is vastly under used.  The "game" and I use that term loosely needs actual gameplay and content. Where is the politics promised? Where is some sort of exploration, NPC spawns that drop something other than ore, where is the massive orgs controlling planets and going to war or making alliances, etc etc.   If building is to be the main focus they coulda scraped the whole single shard, and make players pay for their own servers then NQ maybe coulda eeeked out a small profit. 

 

Unusual take.

 

Single shard doesn't work. There's no magic technology here that makes it simple for hundreds (never mind thousands) of people to share an interactive space. 

 

Of course it's "under-utilized"....because single shard is a joke. The only way it works is when players stay far apart -- if even the few thousand players on DU today decided to meet in the same area, it would murder the servers. Hell, they couldn't even support mining with so few people.

 

NQ's history with technical performance is one of struggle even at small populations. There's no evidence to suggest single shard works well -- that it can support thousands of people sharing a space like a city or battlefield. Everything we've seen indicates they still suffer from classic scaling problems. There's nothing "cutting-edge" about their implementation at all.  


All that being said...I do agree that NQ would be better served with less detail and complexity in their building system -- they clearly needed to use those dev cycles to develop game features.

 

Obviously building as a primary feature can attract thousands or millions of players as the world's most popular multi-billion dollar franchise establishes...but not as NQ has implemented it...that said, if NQ can't ace building as a mechanic I don't see why they'd be able to create the sort of gameplay you envision. You're talking about politics, exploration, and NPCs...they're stuck on mining and reworking basic features. 

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13 minutes ago, blundertwink said:

 

Unusual take.

 

Single shard doesn't work. There's no magic technology here that makes it simple for hundreds (never mind thousands) of people to share an interactive space. 

 

Of course it's "under-utilized"....because single shard is a joke. The only way it works is when players stay far apart -- if even the few thousand players on DU today decided to meet in the same area, it would murder the servers. Hell, they couldn't even support mining with so few people.

 

NQ's history with technical performance is one of struggle even at small populations. There's no evidence to suggest single shard works well -- that it can support thousands of people sharing a space like a city or battlefield. Everything we've seen indicates they still suffer from classic scaling problems. There's nothing "cutting-edge" about their implementation at all.  


All that being said...I do agree that NQ would be better served with less detail and complexity in their building system -- they clearly needed to use those dev cycles to develop game features.

 

Obviously building as a primary feature can attract thousands or millions of players as the world's most popular multi-billion dollar franchise establishes...but not as NQ has implemented it...that said, if NQ can't ace building as a mechanic I don't see why they'd be able to create the sort of gameplay you envision. You're talking about politics, exploration, and NPCs...they're stuck on mining and reworking basic features. 

 

Yes I agree with what you are saying, it has never proved to scale. And building,mining, lua all those things cause problems as NQ has said ou right.  This game is probably a lost cause honestly because the current form of building won't attract many people (otherwise we already had those people) and they have gone panic survival mode so been forever to get actual content gameplay developed.  But if they did want to still be single shard removing lua and removing building would be the best chance they have at getting at least some higher player counts in same area for cities and battles. Make the building prefab stuff you put together or something that has less strain.

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Howdy! Did we address the need to enforce this on static constructs? Players with large factories are looking for clarification on this before they dump hours into fixing. 

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I think I got lucky with my current ship, it was only overlapping two of the back four space engines and once fixed (Moved two of them upwards one arrow press), I am not too fussed about the update. I was quite cross initially since I had just returned from holiday to see the message about my ship being threatened with malfunctions.

 

So I think the update is fine once you've fixed your ships but I guess lowering aggressiveness of the detection as stated above for existing ships and leaving it on full for new ships is probably the answer (Everyone wins).

 

:)

Edited by ADCOne
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17 hours ago, NQ-Deckard said:

Hello everyone,

 

Just to let you all know that we are looking into possibilities to make the element overlap detection a little less aggressive.

More news on that will follow soon.

 

- Deckard

Thank you!

 

And for future reference, imagine all the drama that could have been avoided if we did not have to wait 11 days to get this message.

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To be honest, in my opinion, what I managed to notice on some hitboxes, when the adjuster is easily put in place of the X of the military engine M. but yes, nothing is blocked and in one case it works, in the second it does not work.
 

All this says that the problem is not in the system .. But the fact that earlier, those who made models and hitboxes of models, before the introduction of this system, created low-quality models and their hitboxes, and now we have problems with the introduction of this mechanics. That is, the problem is not in the mechanics, but in the equipment hitboxes themselves. They need to completely fix the hitboxes of ALL the elements in the game. To solve this problem.

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In general, not my opinion, they needed to introduce these changes along with changes in the brakes. Otherwise, we will have to "fix" everything on the ships once, and later, in a couple of months, change all the ships again, and redo it because the brakes will start working according to the new mechanics.
 

And this is double work, and it turns out that with the new mechanics, more than half of the ships will most likely not work conceptually at all, and we will now lose time to fix them. Duck it would be better to find out and do it all once. And do not waste time and energy on ships that are conceptually unsuitable for the new brake mechanics, they could be "written off" right away.

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On 1/20/2022 at 9:40 AM, NQ-Deckard said:

Hello everyone,

 

Just to let you all know that we are looking into possibilities to make the element overlap detection a little less aggressive.

More news on that will follow soon.

 

- Deckard

 

@NQ-Deckard Posting here because the devblog discussion thread is a little busy discussing core slots?.  I know you are rethinking the detection system already.  But i wanted to add a bit more feedback on how the current detection is working.  

 

I have a very small speeder type ship.  And after the stacking detection was enabled, several elements on it were flagged, despite being placed without any exploit.

 

On the front here, on each side i have three S Atmospheric Brakes, placed directly on top of each other, and then an adjuster placed directly on top of the brakes.  All placed simply, no trickery at all.  But the brakes and the adjusters were all flagged as stacked.

 

dualuniverse_2022-01-29_12h20m27s.thumb.png.fbb4f6121e1a778a6cffa96b5755f737.png

 

After rebuilding the front of the ship.  I moved the center brakes, to account for future air brake obstruction too, and repositioned the adjusters.  And nothing was flagged at this point.

 

I checked, and double checked. 

 

dualuniverse_2022-01-29_12h22m05s.png.a91f408c8ef8488753522bf34594e8ae.png

 

Then i made a blueprint, and created two more of the same Speeder.  

 

I also checked the new constructs, and they had no elements flagged.  So i compacted one of the new speeders, and flew to Lacobus.  Where i uncompacted it, and entered the command seat to fly it, and that's when i got the red message on my screen telling me that elements were stacked.

 

So the two speeders on Alioth are both still fine, the original, and the one made from a blueprint, i checked when i got back to Alioth.  But the third speeder, when uncompacted on Lacobus, has elements flagged as stacked.

 

And just to make things a little weirder, once i got back to Alioth and uncompacted the speeder, no red message on the screen, and no flagged elements in build mode.

Edited by Atmosph3rik
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@Atmosph3rik  I have found that I can edit my ship and nothing shows in red but when I try to edit it again or pilot it, the elements are flagged. It’s almost as if when you exit edit mode, small shifts are made to the components which subsequently get flagged. 
 

the other common problem is sometimes when carefully moving an item until shows a blue ghost and when you click it says colliding and resets the ghost back to floating. 
 

the game is buggy. 

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