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Radar Ranges


VandelayIndustries
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The 2 su range limitation is ridiculous.  And was it even thought out? We have radars and guns that go way past it. Railguns can shoot a good bit past 3 su.  Now I don't expect NQ to make some crazy changes that's not how they operate. But they can balance things. One thing is when building a ship. There is no down side to doing something.  You just add more if you want. Well bigger engines just perform better, that's no question. It's why you see XL engines even on S core haulers. And if they don't use XLs it's often just for asthetics.  

 

My proposal is if you have a core with even 1 XL engine, you can now be seen at 4su with a space radar.  3su if you have a L and no XLs. And if you have M and below it's the current 2 su. This would add variety and a good give and take for your builds. You want the best engines your gonna be more visible.  This opens up railguns as a true range weapon to excel in those instances.  Or use smaller engines to reduce ur range if you want to minimize your visibility.  When everything is always equal it's no fun and leads to stale gameplay. We should be making choices about our builds that have positives and negatives.

 

Now some would be able to obviously shoot you and not be see based on their build, I think it would also be a good idea that if that's the case an someone locks you, then in turn it let's you see them back as to be repeatedly shot and not be seen doesn't seem the best.  But it gives those a choice when to start and engagement or run. Or when you see someone you might not know if they can see you because without locking them you wouldn't know what engines they have. Opens up a lot more gameplay. 

Edited by VandelayIndustries
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Some of this should be sorted with an energy system (which I believe was originally intended?), if and when it comes.  So, a certain size core can handle such and such amount of power.  Maybe you could put an XL on a S core but that would max the core and nothing else would run, eg, no shield or guns etc.

That said it makes sense for Haulers to have big engines.  I mean their sole purpose is to move heavy stuff as fast as possible.

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On 12/12/2021 at 8:20 AM, Daphne Jones said:

I like it. We definitely need valid reasons to go small. As it stands going small just means you stay out of PVP or die.

 

Shields should light you up like a Christmas tree too.

Go small ? We did pre 0.23 but someone cried and said that their L core hauler should be viable against our xs cubes. 

 

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On 12/13/2021 at 7:54 AM, XKentX said:

Go small ? We did pre 0.23 but someone cried and said that their L core hauler should be viable against our xs cubes. 

 

A L core hauler should be viable against xs cube (or real non-BS ships) with xs guns on them. But some reasonable number of those xs ships should be a threat, i.e., the hauler should be able to defend itself, but not just ignore the smaller ships.

 

This is a tough game design issue. PVP is always a tough game design issue. (which is especially funny since the prime reason to design a PVP game is devs trying to avoid work - thus PVP usually sucks.) It's hard to do, but everything should be able to defend itself and everything within reason should be a threat.

 

I think the best way to do this is to emphasize player skill, but that ship has sailed and reached the new world already in DU.

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6 minutes ago, Daphne Jones said:

A L core hauler should be viable against xs cube (or real non-BS ships) with xs guns on them. But some reasonable number of those xs ships should be a threat, i.e., the hauler should be able to defend itself, but not just ignore the smaller ships.

 

This is a tough game design issue. PVP is always a tough game design issue. (which is especially funny since the prime reason to design a PVP game is devs trying to avoid work - thus PVP usually sucks.) It's hard to do, but everything should be able to defend itself and everything within reason should be a threat.

 

I think the best way to do this is to emphasize player skill, but that ship has sailed and reached the new world already in DU.

You say haulers should defend themselves but no matter what you do, people will still forget to attach guns to a hauler ?

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3 minutes ago, Physics said:

You say haulers should defend themselves but no matter what you do, people will still forget to attach guns to a hauler ?

I have some haulers with guns and some without guns (mostly light enough to warp). I did say within reason... that would include some thought at the design level to how your ship will defend itself.

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1 hour ago, Daphne Jones said:

I have some haulers with guns and some without guns (mostly light enough to warp). I did say within reason... that would include some thought at the design level to how your ship will defend itself.

Do the ones with guns have proper type&amount of ammo, radar and a gunner seat linked?

That's where the rest of the "haulers with guns" fail.

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I like the idea of making a XS-S core ship and have it stealthy. Space is big. If I'm drifting w/o engines on I should be super hard to find. Also, We should take our player Icons off the screen unless you're friended with someone. That way if a PVP'er plants an alt on a asteroid, They cannot see if anyone is there unless they go looking for them?

 

JMHO

 

Also, YES. Time to unveil power systems. This would fix so much of the unbalance, imo.

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The 2 su limitation is due to the safe zone around planet.
If you increase the radar range you could detect any ship going outside a safe zone.

Radar change can't be just an adjustment of range. If you want to make it interesting you need to create a whole gameplay around the radar.

 

Hunter would run a scanning for long-range target and target need to hide when he get detected.

Something active that can't be done via Lua, to promote active player versus auto-pilote.

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29 minutes ago, Leniver said:

The 2 su limitation is due to the safe zone around planet.
If you increase the radar range you could detect any ship going outside a safe zone.

Radar change can't be just an adjustment of range. If you want to make it interesting you need to create a whole gameplay around the radar.

 

Hunter would run a scanning for long-range target and target need to hide when he get detected.

Something active that can't be done via Lua, to promote active player versus auto-pilote.

 

That is active gameplay involved because you have to choose how you build your ship.  Second, camping a planet should be totally viable. It doesn't stop people from warping.  Camping planets would actually provide some conflict and reason to fight. 

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This is not an active gameplay, it's more building limitation / rules.
Doing that you are pushing for meta ship building, because people will find the best way to build ship.

If you force people to be active in front of his computer then you promote activity, instead of promoting auto-pilot.

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8 minutes ago, Leniver said:

This is not an active gameplay, it's more building limitation / rules.
Doing that you are pushing for meta ship building, because people will find the best way to build ship.

If you force people to be active in front of his computer then you promote activity, instead of promoting auto-pilot.

 

It'd already meta ship building.  XLs best engines for the job for anything that carries actual weight.  And NQ doesn't develop active gameplay you know this. Missions, afk. Industry, afk after u set it up.  If you are waiting for NQ to develop then you be forever waiting. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/15/2021 at 11:59 AM, XKentX said:

Do the ones with guns have proper type&amount of ammo, radar and a gunner seat linked?

That's where the rest of the "haulers with guns" fail.

Yes. And a gunner in the seat, since I fly those ships from a gunner seat with a remote. And custom gunner software for separate Friends and Foes radars lists and more info on the targeted ship etc.

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I would not mind a long range radar that gives basic info like there is a ship in that direction. It does not even need to give me extract distance just about X su. Nothing more. Something that offers a little go this way if you want an encounter without identification capabilities. 

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1 minute ago, Endstar said:

I would not mind a long range radar that gives basic info like there is a ship in that direction. It does not even need to give me extract distance just about X su. Nothing more. Something that offers a little go this way if you want an encounter without identification capabilities. 

 

would be much welcome.  Espeically if it scaled.  Say if you set it to 10su it would the waypoint you got would be within 2su (target could be moving obv).  Then at 50su the way point you get could be off by as much as 10su, and so on, and tweaked for balance as its tested.  Would have chances at tracking people.  But never exact coordinates.  And sufficient cooldowns.  So doing it with a group could lead to quicker results but never 100% accurate. 

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The counter argument here is that is should be possible for someone to travel mostly undiscovered in space, as long as they are willing to spend the time and stay outside the lanes. Space is after all supposed to be this really big place.

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6 hours ago, CptLoRes said:

The counter argument here is that is should be possible for someone to travel mostly undiscovered in space, as long as they are willing to spend the time and stay outside the lanes. Space is after all supposed to be this really big place.

 

Which is a terrible argument it's a game. And them that promotes inactive AFK gameplay to make billions hauling. How is that fun and balanced?

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On 1/3/2022 at 10:54 PM, VandelayIndustries said:

 

Which is a terrible argument it's a game. And them that promotes inactive AFK gameplay to make billions hauling. How is that fun and balanced?


 

Everyone understands fun differently. I don't think it's fun to hunt Hauler with meta-PvP ships. It is and remains no "PvP" as in a competition, where it is about who is the better fighter, but is probably comparable to when wolves attack a flock of sheep. The winner is already determined, with luck a few sheep survive because they could flee or the wolves lose interest.

What is missing in DualUniverse is fair PvP, but that doesn't seem to be the goal for the majority of PvP players, as some are just bad PvP players who only look for sheep and not for strong opponents.

As for the radar range, it should be reduced by at least 70% right away with all weapons. The solar system should really be an experience of endlessness. Meeting other ships is like winning the lottery. If you want PvP, you should meet at warzones and fight big battles there. I want to see my opponent in battle, want to see the damage weapons do, in the game right in front of me and not in a browser window like any f2p game can.

Is the game even capable of sustaining large battles of fleets? At the moment I have very big doubts about it.

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