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THE FUTURE OF DU COMMUNITY FEEDBACK Q&A - Discussion Thread


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Removing the schematics is a easy fix, just put up bot buy orders on all schematics=Fixed

 

But how can NQ be so confused all of sudden, even mentioning the word wipe after 8 months of promising not to makes me not wanna put in even 1 more hour into this game anymore. I now feel like i wasted thousands of hours

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12 minutes ago, Frizura said:

Removing the schematics is a easy fix, just put up bot buy orders on all schematics=Fixed

 

But how can NQ be so confused all of sudden, even mentioning the word wipe after 8 months of promising not to makes me not wanna put in even 1 more hour into this game anymore. I now feel like i wasted thousands of hours.

They realy need to clearify what a evntually parcial wipe would mean. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Frizura said:

I now feel like i wasted thousands of hours

It's a game. If you feel like you wasted thousands of hours you should maybe not play the game at all at this point. Go outside, have a good time and come back for the release. 🙃

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1 hour ago, Frizura said:

Removing the schematics is a easy fix, just put up bot buy orders on all schematics=Fixed

 

But how can NQ be so confused all of sudden, even mentioning the word wipe after 8 months of promising not to makes me not wanna put in even 1 more hour into this game anymore. I now feel like i wasted thousands of hours

NQ has been quite clear since the beginning of Beta that there was no promise that they would never wipe.  They have always said they might if they need to.

 

And IMO they really, really need to at some point.  Some might quit, yes, but I bet a lot who have already quit will come back as most of us quit because of the schematics and the related debacle that gave other orgs a SEVERE advantage over the rest of us.
 

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On the subject of industry, I am a player who has invested very heavily in industry and as a solo player that has been a mammoth effort, if schematics were to be removed I would expect that the retail value of those schematics would be returned. In my opinion the schematics could stay as a consideration but the scaling formulae for the schematics costs should be heavily reduced, a linier rather than exponential increase for instance as a minimum.

 

On the subject of a wipe, if one were deemed necessary for whatever reason, as a minimum, beta players should be maintaining their talent points with a free re-spec. If the talent points were to be deleted you would be removing the only "reward" players get for giving you their money each month that can't be recovered through work and given that we paid you, and continue to pay you, based on that reward as till now you have always pledged no wipe or as a minimum no skill wipe to zero every account would be exceptionally bad form. 

 

If you will not commit to this as a minimum I would expect that to be explicit because I am sure for a large number of your subscribers, including myself, the game is not in a state right now that it is worth its price point if the time gated progress we are paying for will be removed. 

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They realy need to clearify what a evntually parcial wipe would mean. Wipe the planets but give back magic BPs? How deep potential wipe are we talkin about, i need know before i or my org put any more play time or money into this game

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3 hours ago, Frizura said:

They really need to clarify what a eventually partial wipe would mean. Wipe the planets but give back magic BPs? How deep potential wipe are we talkin about, I need know before I or my org put any more play time or money into this game

I agree,   the only and I mean only way a wipe should ever happen is if you wipe the planets and give our stuff back.         This is because for Months into the game it was said there would be "No wipe"      If they plan on taking everything I have worked for I will quit now because there is no use in playing.     

it has been said in these posts the new lead of NQ needs to keep an open mind.  This is true once the game went into Beta it was no longer a single vision of the game.  Now that it is open to the public and not in an alpha state the game must evolve / adapt to survive.    DU has more potential than any other game out there which is why most of us are sticking with it.  You have only to realize that potential.   

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17 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

Why do ppl still see this as a solution... 

The is the only safety net noobs have... 

 

If industrialists cant beat those "1 buy 10000 sell" orders then how will players not interested in crafting play the game? 

 

Jesus. Would it be that hard to use your head for a 2 minute thinking before posting this? 

Apologies, ATM in game the majority of bots sell schematics and buy raw ore, (this is mostly as i see it as bots may buy/sell other things) As stated in my 1st post introducing schematics learned into the talent tree would negate the need for bots to sell schematics. Now onto the more important issue Bots buying Raw Ore. I want to know that the items I'm selling to a "buy order" is to a Player or Org that needs it not a bot. As it is now and by the way you were talking DU will never be a Player Driven Economy. We don't need bots for new players, that is what Organizations are for, Join one. If you want to Solo DU then be aware, just as in everything it's harder to do by yourself, Don't whine about it, Work through it. Besides any player thinking that they can jump into an MMO and be able to stand next to the Big Boys is Insane & to ask / whine for it is Asinine.

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4 hours ago, AshKior said:

As it is now and by the way you were talking DU will never be a Player Driven Economy

 

"Player Driven" is not equal to "player exclusive" 

When you drive your car, you dont have to be the full car. Wheels and doors and windows can exists. And passangers can exist too. 

 

But more importantly. An economy without regulation will never work. 

It does not work in RL why would it work here where  players can just quit or get a new account? 

 

The current bot prices are not competition unless you were plaing to make 99.9% profit and 0.1% actual cost. 

Those bot prices are regulation. Making sure any new player can build a basic S engine ship to get them to space. 

 

Removing this will at some time (war, sanctions, pure stupidity) , create a market crash, where ppl backed by orgs will survive, while noobs cant make basic ships. 

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2 hours ago, joaocordeiro said:

 

"Player Driven" is not equal to "player exclusive" 

When you drive your car, you dont have to be the full car. Wheels and doors and windows can exists. And passangers can exist too. 

 

But more importantly. An economy without regulation will never work. 

It does not work in RL why would it work here where  players can just quit or get a new account? 

 

The current bot prices are not competition unless you were plaing to make 99.9% profit and 0.1% actual cost. 

Those bot prices are regulation. Making sure any new player can build a basic S engine ship to get them to space. 

 

Removing this will at some time (war, sanctions, pure stupidity) , create a market crash, where ppl backed by orgs will survive, while noobs cant make basic ships. 

Apologies, What I meant to say is ... "There are none so blind as those who just won't see." Good Day Sir.

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7 minutes ago, AshKior said:

Apologies, What I meant to say is ... "There are none so blind as those who just won't see." Good Day Sir.

True. Ignoring all RL economy issues and regulation created to compensate. 

Ignoring other games similar to this, having all having NPC stores for basic supplies. 

Takes allot of "dont want to see" to not see. 

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What about all those people who make crap and put it up for sale lower than the cost of the ore it took to make it with lvl 5 skills.      Do they not know the ore has value and they could have made more by selling raw ore ?      Maybe a warning on the market would help with this.    "  Warning you are about to list this for less than it cost to make it" 

 

 

Or give us recyclers so we can buy the junk break it down and make something else.  

 

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2 hours ago, Fembot68 said:

What about all those people who make crap and put it up for sale lower than the cost of the ore it took to make it with lvl 5 skills.

 

Or give us recyclers so we can buy the junk break it down and make something else.  

 

Maybe they brought the ore when it was cheaper?

 

Maybe they are ditching old stock?

 

Maybe they are playing the long game by ensuring nobody else specialised in that product, so they can slowly move to a small profit per unit?

 

Most probably they are buying ore in bulk from a supplier and therefore are still able to make a slight profit and keep everybody else from being able to compete with them.

 

Recyclers probably won’t be anywhere near that efficient, but if they are talent based and have different greases, such as basic, uncommon, etc.; maybe the best grade with a fully talented person could become close

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1 minute ago, CoyoteNZ said:

Maybe they brought the ore when it was cheaper?

 

Maybe they are ditching old stock?

 

Maybe they are playing the long game by ensuring nobody else specialised in that product, so they can slowly move to a small profit per unit?

 

Most probably they are buying ore in bulk from a supplier and therefore are still able to make a slight profit and keep everybody else from being able to compete with them.

 

Recyclers probably won’t be anywhere near that efficient, but if they are talent based and have different greases, such as basic, uncommon, etc.; maybe the best grade with a fully talented person could become close

Maybe  they are not so smart and could have made more money if they just sold the ore. 

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This game will only make it to release because they said no more wipes. Bringing in people like me. You wipe the game it will fail. Anyone who wants a wipe is crybaby noob:) ✌🏽 

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I suspect a wipe will be a must if the game is going to survive. It is one thing if it is a short beta to maintain everything that is there but not for a long beta - the imbalance between the new players and the early beta players is just too large in terms of land grabbed, skills ground, etc.

 

There are also all the 'never coming back' crowd who have locked up areas that will forever be gone - so unless there is a 'vacated for longer than X timer' a wipe will be an absolute must. If you are not subbing no reason your creation should survive.

 

I would say, though, if a wipe is going to happen there should be a way of getting constructions back when you have the materials for it. That, imo, would be fair.

 

Blueprints - dunno - having invested in them I can't say I mind. It is a bit of a grind but then what MMO worth crafting in is not. Just one of those things. It also makes you focus a little on what you should craft. I am all for them being purchasable and I don't think the current prices are totally out of whack. It makes you focus a little on what you want to build yourself outside of the basic stuff.

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On 4/23/2021 at 12:04 AM, CoyoteNZ said:

Maybe they brought the ore when it was cheaper?

 

Maybe they are ditching old stock?

 

Maybe they are playing the long game by ensuring nobody else specialised in that product, so they can slowly move to a small profit per unit?

 

Most probably they are buying ore in bulk from a supplier and therefore are still able to make a slight profit and keep everybody else from being able to compete with them.

 

Recyclers probably won’t be anywhere near that efficient, but if they are talent based and have different greases, such as basic, uncommon, etc.; maybe the best grade with a fully talented person could become close

Just out of curiosity  I posted buy orders for warp drives at 300k  They were filled!   That is half the build cost.  This kind of stuff should be stopped.  otherwise the whole market will be destroyed.  

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19 hours ago, Cheith said:

I suspect a wipe will be a must if the game is going to survive. It is one thing if it is a short beta to maintain everything that is there but not for a long beta - the imbalance between the new players and the early beta players is just too large in terms of land grabbed, skills ground, etc.


This post serves to demonstrate a point.   You and most of the others that want wipes, have never played an MMO before.    There is always those people who have more than you do just like the real world.  

Yes they need to come up with a mechanic to deal with  the land grab people but this does not require taking everything from everyone.  This is like those stupid participation awards they give out in schools now.   "your all winners"        

 

One thing the wipe crowd are missing is the mission system.  Established players can make a bunch of missions for new players.  I Know I will be doing this as there is not enough time in a game day to get everything done.   
 

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55 minutes ago, Fembot68 said:


This post serves to demonstrate a point.   You and most of the others that want wipes, have never played an MMO before.    There is always those people who have more than you do just like the real world.  

Yes they need to come up with a mechanic to deal with  the land grab people but this does not require taking everything from everyone.  This is like those stupid participation awards they give out in schools now.   "your all winners"        

 

One thing the wipe crowd are missing is the mission system.  Established players can make a bunch of missions for new players.  I Know I will be doing this as there is not enough time in a game day to get everything done.   
 

Ahhhhahhhhahhh - sorry been playing them since 2001. Betas, alphas, successful ones, failed ones, some that hung on by their teeth for a while. Different genres, different playstyles. The big difference between now and the past is the length of the beta periods - in the past they were relatively short - now they can easily be 2-3 years. Totally different.
 
Should you get some advantage for helping test the game, maybe, though probably not more than a week or so - certainly not two flipping years. You signed up to essentially scale test the game mechanics after all (as have I). If you want the game to get more subscribers and succeed you likely will have to suck up the wipe otherwise you will get to have all the old vets that are left playing by themselves until the plug is pulled.

Just my opinion, and we'll see what happens. I am not against time based skill training but when experienced players can dominate the markets from day one due to their beta time for skill training it is going to be an issue (and I will be one by then). A lot of folks who might have played will think 'why bother' and you can guarantee the potential player base is way higher than the number of people who will be upset by a wipe. If it is not then frankly it doesn't matter anyway as the game will die.

 

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3 hours ago, Cheith said:

Ahhhhahhhhahhh - sorry been playing them since 2001. Betas, alphas, successful ones, failed ones, some that hung on by their teeth for a while. Different genres, different playstyles. The big difference between now and the past is the length of the beta periods - in the past they were relatively short - now they can easily be 2-3 years. Totally different.
 
Should you get some advantage for helping test the game, maybe, though probably not more than a week or so - certainly not two flipping years. You signed up to essentially scale test the game mechanics after all (as have I). If you want the game to get more subscribers and succeed you likely will have to suck up the wipe otherwise you will get to have all the old vets that are left playing by themselves until the plug is pulled.

Just my opinion, and we'll see what happens. I am not against time based skill training but when experienced players can dominate the markets from day one due to their beta time for skill training it is going to be an issue (and I will be one by then). A lot of folks who might have played will think 'why bother' and you can guarantee the potential player base is way higher than the number of people who will be upset by a wipe. If it is not then frankly it doesn't matter anyway as the game will die.

 

They should do monthly wipes soo new players never feel disadvantaged. If they don’t do regular wipes the long time players will get too much stuff and it won’t be fair 

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33 minutes ago, jdalto said:

They should do monthly wipes soo new players never feel disadvantaged. If they don’t do regular wipes the long time players will get too much stuff and it won’t be fair 

Might be a little on the extreme side - just make sure you set the expectation that everything is impermanent. However you do need enough 'stuff' to test the scaling. The thing many people get upset about are losing their creations - just make sure there is a way of saving the designs and restoring them when the character is advanced enough. Would solve a good number of issues.

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On 4/26/2021 at 3:02 AM, Fembot68 said:

Just out of curiosity  I posted buy orders for warp drives at 300k  They were filled!   That is half the build cost.  This kind of stuff should be stopped.  otherwise the whole market will be destroyed.  

What a load of bollocks. 
 

what if someone stole 50 warp drives from their org, went rogue and want to offload them quickly?

 

The market will sort itself out. 
 

if people are dumb and or philanthropists and want to sell stuff cheaply, that’s entirely up to them. I doubt it would be sustainable in any large volume. 

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My suggestion for schematics is to significantly reduce the cost by removing exponential and replacing it for linear scaling i.e t1 element schematic is 75k so use that as the base cost, t2 element is 75k *2 = 150k, t3 becomes 75k*3 = 225k etc so their is still investment and the item still exists for the lua management but the barrier to entry is reduced.

For expanding the schematic mechanic I would consider a machine that you can put a schematic into and for a nominal quanta fee you can generate another schematic from it with rng improvements above the starting schematic based on the users skills for example:

 

A user with t5 industry talents for productivity for refining coal into carbon puts a base schematic into the machine and pays 10k quanta to improve the schematic, it generates another schematic that has a base yield and requirement between 5 and 25% better than the base schematic, say they roll a 15% improvement in yield and a 20% reduction ins cost, they could then take the base schematic out and put the newly created one in, this would have them produce, at a minimum, a copy of what they already have but if they rolled better on one of the skills they have that improved stat line would be on the new schematic. This would allow people who are specialised in industry to have the ability to stack production benefits while also making schematic improvement a marketable skill, in addition it would let those not investing heavily into production skills to still progress their production rates of items they may want to produce for themselves by purchasing improved schematics. At the same time by making sure they are capped to the maximum bonuses provided by the creators skills you keep it from being a potentially game breaking multiplier on multipliers (even though the skill would stack with the schematic stats they couldn't end up making a +500% productivity schematic for instance) and would give some incentive to invest in the t5 industry skills as the improved schematics would be something that would have their own market value too.

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Removal of the nebula skybox and better vfx like when the ship goes fast in space and the atmosphere entry and exit are horrible we need a day sky an dnight sky that looks realistic and water that makes less lag and prettier with the sand so both fits together because it doesn't even looks like an atmosphere game like no man sky have better armosphere graphics and when you are flying your ship it looks like static it doesn't even feel like it's flying it looks like it floats we should see air effect or something to add immersion and realism we need also smaller warp drive and more elements skins and voxel glass of colors because we need to be able to build more things make better curves easily even add a dot system to manipulate voxels to play with the shape.

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  • 2 weeks later...

its a hard  decision making a fair cut for anyone

 

in my formula we have old players, new players and Novaquark

 

new players:
.. have a big disadvantage especially after the 0.23 schematic change
they need a smooth start equally to the early days for the now "old players" to stay&play and have enough motivation to continue and grow..

 

old players:
have spend a lot of time
they are high potential customers for the future - they possibly cant be replaced by new players (its just a guess)

 

Novaquark:
needs to balance server load in a way that its also working in future - concerning server expenses and its resulting performance for the players

 

My proposal is to implement a energy contingent per player.
A player can adjust his contingent between his own productions and the corporation (if he's part of one).

 

Production lines may slow down in a negative exponential way if there is too much running - making it very insufficient.

That way a bigger corporation is probably interested to buy components like screw and tubes and other T1/T2 products from the market to run their high-end productions at full speed – instead of producing all them self in a serial way.

 

Server load could benefit a lot that way and it can help to establish a running market for anyone.

 

New players should start on Sanctuary.
They as well have this energy contingent, but they can produce anything without schematics up to T2 – they can not sell their products (those are flagged accordingly) on the market though - because its only meant to help them into the game and learn all the things to grow and establish properly before they go to another place for heavy production or contribution to a corporation. 

  

 

 

A wipe will affect the "old players" hardly and there's a big risk they quit – that’s a dangerous thing for anyone who wants the game to success in the long term because NQ simply needs the cash to continue. "New players" need a sandbox without too much restrictions. Its a good learning to visit a moon for ore and feed the factory for their needed things on Sanctuary. If they want to step forward they'll have to grind, like the "old players", to get the schematics and all other fancy stuff. 

 

There are some other questions like PVP. But I'm the wrong person to find out how to make this a good thing for anyone.

 

@NQ

I hope you'll do some intense brainstorm to find a good solution to help yourself, but also the new and the old players to keep /make them happy. I love the game. But personally, I wont start from scratch once again.

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