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7 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

look, whatever, mate, feel free to fatten your lawyer and solicitor buddies all you want rolling out the rule books...

 

But at the end of the day fifteen minutes on YouTube shows the state of the game.

 

If you are the kind of person to spend any time at all online mulling over a restaurant to take your gf/bf/sf next Friday rather than just taking them to queue up at the nearest chippy on the corner then you were equipped to evaluate this game before paying 20 odd dollars. 

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

although to be fair, I say this as someone who has dropped tens of thousands of dollars on tech and design kickstarters and crowdfunding over the last decade so I may have a slight bias when it comes to deciding how to spend my hard-earned and what to expect. 

 

 

Oh, I won't be wasting my time or money on this... that's not my point here

 

I'm just saying you cant argue "it's not a scam because you could have discovered the truth through due dilligence and researching third party info"

 

A scam is defined by the actions of the scammer.. false advertising can even negate fine print and toa.

 

The scammee lacking due diligence or falling for an easily avoided scam doesnt in any way make it less of a scam.

 

"Yeah you honor, I robbed the vic at gunpoint in that alley, but it's commonly available knowledge that this alley is where people get mugged.. it's the victims fault for walking down this alley"

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The thing that never fails to amaze me about this place is that the regulars who spend all day criticizing NQ and the state of the game are the very first people to come running to defend if anyone ne

To be fair, the du website, promotional videos and materials paint a picture of a game which it not only fails to deliver but in all honesty is likely not possible to ever deliver.   The sce

10/10   Would use as copy pasta    

I, too, can provide completely pointless and absurd reductionist scenarios. 

warning labels on everything.

 

Hot coffee Warning: this coffee is hot, risk of burning. 
Knife warning: this knife is not a toy and has a sharp edge.

Peanuts warning: these peanuts contain peanuts. 

Bike Warning: this product moves when used, exercise caution. 
sleeping pill warning: may cause drowsiness


my favourite is

 

warning: do not hold wrong end of chainsaw. 
 

literally how much protection do people need from themselves?

 

George carlin once said “imagine how dumb the average person is... now remember that half the people are even dumber”

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:

But at the end of the day fifteen minutes on YouTube shows the state of the game.

 

Fifteen minutes on youtube also shows the state of the world and leads to the conclusion that termination is a preferable outcome.

 

That's not an argument for anything.

NQ is advertising that which does not exist.

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1 hour ago, IvanGrozniy said:

Fifteen minutes on youtube also shows the state of the world and leads to the conclusion that termination is a preferable outcome.

 

What the fruity, lemon scented f--- are you going on about?

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2 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

I, too, can provide completely pointless and absurd reductionist scenarios. 

warning labels on everything.

 

Hot coffee Warning: this coffee is hot, risk of burning. 
Knife warning: this knife is not a toy and has a sharp edge.

Peanuts warning: these peanuts contain peanuts. 

Bike Warning: this product moves when used, exercise caution. 
sleeping pill warning: may cause drowsiness


my favourite is

 

warning: do not hold wrong end of chainsaw. 
 

literally how much protection do people need from themselves?

 

George carlin once said “imagine how dumb the average person is... now remember that half the people are even dumber”

 

 

 

I admittedly did use reductio ad absurdum to drive my point home

 

But that was used in an emphasizing way to further drive home the well argued points.

 

Also your reductionist examples are all things I have seen on labels and instructions or would not be surprised to see.. even the chainsaw one.. I will bet you can find instructions for chainsaws that include many warnings about not touching/handling the tooth covered chain unless it properly disabled.

 

I'm not gonna argue with you George Carlin quote, I completely agree with that.

 

And personally I came late to this game, bought a bunch of alts shortly after starting, now I just lost hope and dont waste time on du anymore unless some miracle occurs... I'm not sour about the cash, what does piss me off is the companies attitude and actions.

 

My only point here is that there are laws, rules, regulations and governing bodies that do actually address these types of issues, and toa / buyer beware are not simple outs. Society does have systems in place that protect consumers and place the burden on the seller/advertisers to prevent misleading the consumer.

 

To call this a scam is to say "they promise or imply one thing with their promotional and sales material but knowingly and with forethought fail to deliver it"

 

Does du present it outwardly as something it far from lives up to.. yes

 

As long as they have the "beta" tag I believe no judge would rule against them in a false advertising suit though.

 

So right now their only escape is that they use the beta label as an "industry standard and expected common knowledge that the product is unfinished, and thus justify their marketing and promotional material as showing the proposed goal of the finished product"

 

Is their intent with the promotional material to scam people..  oh hell yes.. they know full well the average new sub is signing up and paying expecting the experience presented in the video on their website.. they clearly have intent

 

Is it common sense that they cant be held liable for the customers lack of due dilligence.. yes

 

Are they safe as long as the have the beta tag.. most likely

 

If they remove the beta tag will a lawsuit against them succeed. Possible but unlikely

 

 

But is it a scam.. not is it legally actionable fraud.. is their behaviour intent on misleading many people who ultimately purchase their product based on the misleading representation.... hell yes!!!

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On 4/10/2021 at 8:54 AM, Veygan said:

This game is a piece of junk don't buy this trash reasons

1)no graphics nothing ! you must have a pc like mine 4000$ to play with low settings with 35 fps CRAP

2)I just manage to buy my first spaceship with 649000h and boom i lost it all because with absolute no physics i stuck in side to another ship and i just need to respawn and BOOM i lost it all

3)no npc no players nothing.....   don't see videos with a lot of players ships around the place its because they never de spawn  even if the players don't play anymore SCAM

Like Star citizen they will get your money and someday BOOM 

Two things...

1. Beta (some would say alpha, either way not release)

2. You probably haven’t lost your ship. And if it is only a 600k ship it won’t cost much to fix with scrap. Find it’s locati N in your constructs under map, go to it, make some scrap patch it up and ready to fly again. 

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44 minutes ago, CoyoteNZ said:

Two things...

1. Beta (some would say alpha, either way not release)

2. You probably haven’t lost your ship. And if it is only a 600k ship it won’t cost much to fix with scrap. Find it’s locati N in your constructs under map, go to it, make some scrap patch it up and ready to fly again. 

 

 

Another lad and me already helped him do this. Repaired the ship etc.
 

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On 4/9/2021 at 11:54 PM, Veygan said:

This game is a piece of junk don't buy this trash reasons

1)no graphics nothing ! you must have a pc like mine 4000$ to play with low settings with 35 fps CRAP

2)I just manage to buy my first spaceship with 649000h and boom i lost it all because with absolute no physics i stuck in side to another ship and i just need to respawn and BOOM i lost it all

3)no npc no players nothing.....   don't see videos with a lot of players ships around the place its because they never de spawn  even if the players don't play anymore SCAM

Like Star citizen they will get your money and someday BOOM 

And here we are playing since September 2020 and we managed to get past the frustration learning curve puts on us.

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17 hours ago, Vasten said:

I'm not gonna argue with you George Carlin quote, I completely agree with that.

 


lol. you “agree”? So glad you agree with a mathematical definition. Very magnanimous of you!

 

the definition of average is that you are as likely to find an example higher as you are lower... by definition. So it’s a good thing you didn’t argue with that because you’d be arguing with thousands of years of fundamental mathematics. 

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1 thing I have to say well done to moderators and to the community that it's huge and  helps every second anything you ask! The game is difficult now but if you learn the basics and some lua script functions you can play and I hope the development keep the good work to make this game an OUTSTANDING MASTERPIECE :D

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DU isn't a "scam", but the adverts are misleading.

 

Sure, buyers need to research, but it's been shown that people buy based on emotion. Yes, even smart people. 

 

The question isn't just "could you have known better if you bothered to check?"

 

It's also "is NQ trying to mislead people into buying their game?" -- because as we've seen so obviously in the real world, any claim you put out there someone will believe so long as it aligns with their expectations/needs and there's some shred of evidence. 

 

Someone that watches one of NQ's adverts that really wants a game like this to work...is it really their fault for believing the advert? Or is it NQ's fault for posting adverts they know are misleading...? 

 

I don't know, but in this day and age especially...we have to move beyond "go do your research" because however sensible, it isn't how people work. 

 

The main reason NQ should care is that it is counterproductive to have adverts that set the wrong expectation.

 

We're not talking about some great moral failure because of a $15 sub to a video game...it's just not a good thing for new players to have the bar set by a flashy ad then land in DU to feel instant regret and bewilderment. 

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Did not join an org.  Buys the silly starter ships and then comes here........

 

DU is supposed to be a co-op game!  Org's could have helped you and given you so much advice.

 

Anyway good luck to you!

 

Honvik

Premier of the Empire

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6 hours ago, Honvik said:

Org's could have helped you and given you so much advice.

 

Anyway good luck to you!

 

Honvik

Premier of the Empire


True... that disconnect between what the players want and what JC envisioned has been discussed a hundred times. 
 

also, while you were harping on at him:


org’s *what* could have helped you?

org’s members?

org’s quanta?

org’s serfs?

 

you missed a word. 
 

Real emperors employ proofreaders 😉

 

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23 hours ago, GraXXoR said:


lol. you “agree”? So glad you agree with a mathematical definition. Very magnanimous of you!

 

the definition of average is that you are as likely to find an example higher as you are lower... by definition. So it’s a good thing you didn’t argue with that because you’d be arguing with thousands of years of fundamental mathematics. 

Actually average most commonly refers to mean, which is the total sample values divided by the sample size, which does not imply 50% are lower than the average

 

You are thinking of the median (ther value at the center of a sample ordered by value)

 

I meant I agree with the message of "dont underestimate the stupidity of the masses, never forget there are alot of very dumb people"

 

You could argue the average is also often used as a broader term to define mean, median and mode as a group of concepts, but then you have not defined what you mean by average and the statement is false by exception abd lack of qualifier like saying "apples are red"

 

Thousands of years of fundamental mathematics would argue with Carlin, and with you it would seem ;)

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9 hours ago, Vasten said:

Actually average most commonly refers to mean, which is the total sample values divided by the sample size, which does not imply 50% are lower than the average

 

You are thinking of the median (ther value at the center of a sample ordered by value)

 

I meant I agree with the message of "dont underestimate the stupidity of the masses, never forget there are alot of very dumb people"

 

You could argue the average is also often used as a broader term to define mean, median and mode as a group of concepts, but then you have not defined what you mean by average and the statement is false by exception abd lack of qualifier like saying "apples are red"

 

Thousands of years of fundamental mathematics would argue with Carlin, and with you it would seem ;)


yeah, I know mate, I have a MEng an PhD in Nanotechnology (admittedly from the 90’s but still...)  but I didn’t want to use the words “mean” and “median” because most probably think they stand for people who are a) not kind and b) can see ghosts 😉
 

layperson language is extremely annoying to deal with... like when Flatards say “BuT gRaViTy is jUsT a ThEoRy” 


also, Granny Smith says “apples are red” is perhaps the worst qualifier you could have thought up.

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Another weird self quote message deleted. What is wrong with the forum lately? It was always awkward but recently it’s really hard to edit on an iPhone. And I keep double posting. 

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oh man, seriously! Im a new player, and had some knockdowns from the game, including a ship blowing up due to rendering issues at market place and loosing evenything i was carrying.

Still that said, i like this game. I hope devs can grow the company, sustain and increase revenue to employ more programmers, artists ect to improve the game and experience for the players. I did say i would not re-sub when i was miffed about things, but i will continue with my subscription.

 

Good Luck NQ

Edited by SpacePirate
typos
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1 hour ago, GraXXoR said:


yeah, I know mate, I have a MEng an PhD in Nanotechnology (admittedly from the 90’s but still...)  but I didn’t want to use the words “mean” and “median” because most probably think they stand for people who are a) not kind and b) can see ghosts 😉
 

layperson language is extremely annoying to deal with... like when Flatards say “BuT gRaViTy is jUsT a ThEoRy” 


also, Granny Smith says “apples are red” is perhaps the worst qualifier you could have thought up.

I know your pain

 

Gravity, evolution, etc.. I used go into a rage like the hulk when a layperson thinking the scientific word "theory" was as they understood it to mean "hypothesis/assumption/guess" tried to use those "it's just a theory" arguments...

 

My point was just that you require a qualifier for "apples are red" like "some".. without it the exceptions make it semantically false.. in case the argument became "average can be used to reference all three as a group"

 

I if I'm gonna play semantic games, I like preemptively cut off rebuttals hehe.. after years in tech R&D I have become the guy who tries to reduce communication to one long initial response instead of a long conversation... Q "can we make this do that" A" NO, and it cant do these things either.. it can do these simmilar things, but only if you sacrifice those things.. and if you think we can do x or y let me tell you why that wont work either... and dont even think about z, we are not Sony or NASA"

 

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2 hours ago, GraXXoR said:

Another weird self quote message deleted. What is wrong with the forum lately? It was always awkward but recently it’s really hard to edit on an iPhone. And I keep double posting. 

Is it just when you are using quotes? 

 

1 hour ago, SpacePirate said:

oh man, seriously! Im a new player, and had some knockdowns from the game, including a ship blowing up due to rendering issues at market place and loosing evenything i was carrying.

Still that said, i like this game. I hope devs can grow the company, sustain and increase revenue to employ more programmers, artists ect to improve the game and experience for the players. I did say i would not re-sub when i was miffed about things, but i will continue with my subscription.

 

Good Luck NQ

Glad to know you're sticking around, thank you :)

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55 minutes ago, SpacePirate said:

oh man, seriously! Im a new player, and had some knockdowns from the game, including a ship blowing up due to rendering issues at market place and loosing evenything i was carrying.

Still that said, i like this game. I hope devs can grow the company, sustain and increase revenue to employ more programmers, artists ect to improve the game and experience for the players. I did say i would not re-sub when i was miffed about things, but i will continue with my subscription.

 

Good Luck NQ

Fresh fish... the cycle of hope

 

I was there not long ago.. now the thread of hope is so thin i wont spend any more time grinding until I see something to renew my faith.

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20 hours ago, NQ-Naerais said:

Is it just when you are using quotes? 

 


actually, it happens when I submit a reply and then edit it. When I submit the edit, I got the original, edited post and a new post tacked on that has the quoted original post, but pre-edit. It’s only happened three times that I remember, so it’s not a major issue for me, but it’s just odd that it never happened until the forum update. 

 

 

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On 4/13/2021 at 2:14 AM, GraXXoR said:


True... that disconnect between what the players want and what JC envisioned has been discussed a hundred times. 
 

also, while you were harping on at him:


org’s *what* could have helped you?

org’s members?

org’s quanta?

org’s serfs?

 

you missed a word. 
 

Real emperors employ proofreaders 😉

 

 

eh?

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Hmm about that 'average thing'. It is not necessary true that half the people are dumber. They could also have all the same intelligence and just some 'feel' they are different. Or what if you have, from lets say 100 people, just one off to each end, at the same distance and the rest is the same? Let alone the fact that intelligence is pretty much a multivariate  factor and therefor the 'average' is meaningless or pretty much whatever you want it to be. The real question for me would be, what is the real intend for the mentioned quote? I let this for others to decide and go off to see if I can find the average cloud shape.

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