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Futuristic manufacturing + stone age trade


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So we have factories with magic equiment that never breaks down, never needs repair, zero maintenance.. programmable production so we can create "magic black box factories" where you just say "computer make 5 of this and 20 of that" and it does it...

 

Ok that's cool

 

But we have stone age trade.. mo way to offer up goods across the world. You have to haul goods to market and hope someone buys like a peasant farmer in medieval times.

 

I cant chat with potential buyers.. cant inquire about bulk discount... I cant contact sellers and buyers at all

 

What the hell?

 

Of course the economy is completely screwed up.. supply chains are going to be pushed to zero.. or course

 

Of course you end up with a few tychoons who make everything

 

And everyone else is a peasant farmer feeding them ore

 

 

Either buff trade with ibsta system wide teleport shipping 

 

Or nerf manufacturing

Machine needing maintenance and care would do the trick

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Imho


The solution is to make industry less passive

 

Mining is so active play, shipping as well

 

Why is industry just turn on, log off, login done.

 

Machines should break down and need repair.. your talent bluffs should have to be applied to each machine and wear off after a time so you have to apply them regularly

 

Make the industry guys work too

 

Otherwise industry is a priviledge that will be controlled by an elite few who get passive income while the rest of us are laboring

 

The tychoons will market manipulate and price to make sure they stay on top.. so there wont even be a chance for small guys to compete

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* sigh *

 

You must be relativly new, if not given up yet on "disign suggestions to NQ". Let me tell you secret: its useless.

 

Still. Problem here is much deeper then just industry, because, realisticly, other activities are quite "passive" too, just a bit different way. Most things are slow, predictable, mostly without any risk (beyond boredom) or imagination, even if they need human participation -- quite automatic by their nature, not adding anything of value too loops and dynamics.  

 

So this stale enviroment indeed produced situation, where 7/24 playing people (also boosted by NQ stupid mistakes and all sorts of exploits) are sitting now on billions and mega-factories (producing everything with bands of 5/5 alts, pissing fountains on JC ideas of specialization). This was even more futhered to mockery levels with 0.23 and famous schemgate.

 

Economy of DU lagerly at this point, pardon my french, FUBAR.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

* sigh *

 

You must be relativly new, if not given up yet on "disign suggestions to NQ". Let me tell you secret: its useless.

 

Still. Problem here is much deeper then just industry, because, realisticly, other activities are quite "passive" too, just a bit different way. Most things are slow, predictable, mostly without any risk (beyond boredom), even if they need human participation -- quite automatic by their nature, not adding anything of value too loops and dynamics.  

 

So this stale enviroment indeed produced situation, where 7/24 playing people (also boosted by NQ stupid mistakes and all sorts of exploits) are sitting now on billions and mega-factories (producing everything with bands of 5/5 alts, pissing fountains on JC ideas of specialization). This was even more futhered to mockery levels with 0.23 and famous schemgate.

 

Economy of DU lagerly at this point, pardon my french, FUBAR.

 

 

I am relatively new yeah

 

But this stuff is simple game theory 

 

It's like they have no idea what game theory is or understand gamer behaviour at all

 

These players are just behaving as gamers always have and following simple game theory decision making matrices

 

And I can be repaired easily...

 

Server wipe

 

Make everything active instead of passive

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3 minutes ago, Vasten said:

It's like they have no idea what game theory is or understand gamer behaviour at all

Yes, NQ has a great difficulty with understanding gamers behaivors in sandbox. Totaly mind boggling. We broken like trillion lances over years WHY.

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4 hours ago, Vasten said:

Server wipe

Imo this is needed economy wise. But there's no point until they actually implement a solution to fix the imbalance of supply/demand. 

I hope they have the guts to do it but at the same time it's a massive risk because of everything everyones built, so I don't expect they'll pull the trigger.

 

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5 hours ago, Vasten said:

But this stuff is simple game theory 

 

It's like they have no idea what game theory is or understand gamer behaviour at all

 

These players are just behaving as gamers always have and following simple game theory decision making matrices

Welcome to the MMO where the CEO/Creative Director/PhD/Founder has never worked in game dev before...never mind studying game design. 

 

The big name designer they did hire left after 8 months. 

 

DU's design issues are a textbook case of a new developer slapping down code and features without a real plan. The only difference between JC and most new game devs is that his PhD allowed him to "convince" investors into thinking this was a real thing. I'd wager that 8 of 10 new game devs try to be too ambitious with their first projects lol.

 

It isn't even ambition to be honest, its arrogance -- it's only "ambition" when you know how hard a big project like this because you have experience/knowledge and pursue it anyway. Going in blind and thinking you can create something vast and complex and "cutting-edge" is hubris. 

 

I think having power as a requirement is a good alternative to repair -- big factories require a lot of power plants, and power plants require fuel to keep running.

 

Won't be monotonous to repair each machine, but also not idle. Also helps limit the scale of factories in a better way than stupid schematics. Further, more complex power plants could have their own fuel production lines leading to more specialization and a market for reactor fuel etc. 

 

Basically...just steal industry mechanics from Satisfactory and Factorio. 

 

Thing is, this was already suggested many times. Supposedly NQ planned for a power mechanic for a while, but are too incompetent/lazy to implement it. 

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I don't think a wipe will happen but if it does man the motivation to grind for the fourth time will suck.  I started playing in Alpha and already went through a couple server wipes.  Having to rebuild for the fourth time wouldn't be fun for me.  But I love the game too much too complain lol so who knows.

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1 hour ago, ShippyLongstalking said:

Welcome to the MMO where the CEO/Creative Director/PhD/Founder has never worked in game dev before...never mind studying game design. 

 

The big name designer they did hire left after 8 months. 

 

DU's design issues are a textbook case of a new developer slapping down code and features without a real plan. The only difference between JC and most new game devs is that his PhD allowed him to "convince" investors into thinking this was a real thing. I'd wager that 8 of 10 new game devs try to be too ambitious with their first projects lol.

 

It isn't even ambition to be honest, its arrogance -- it's only "ambition" when you know how hard a big project like this because you have experience/knowledge and pursue it anyway. Going in blind and thinking you can create something vast and complex and "cutting-edge" is hubris. 

 

I think having power as a requirement is a good alternative to repair -- big factories require a lot of power plants, and power plants require fuel to keep running.

 

Won't be monotonous to repair each machine, but also not idle. Also helps limit the scale of factories in a better way than stupid schematics. Further, more complex power plants could have their own fuel production lines leading to more specialization and a market for reactor fuel etc. 

 

Basically...just steal industry mechanics from Satisfactory and Factorio. 

 

Thing is, this was already suggested many times. Supposedly NQ planned for a power mechanic for a while, but are too incompetent/lazy to implement it. 

I wouldn't pin this to just "a new developer slapping down code and features without a real plan".  Look at how many big name titles that get fully released only to let down players.  Fallout, Cyberpunk, No Man Sky... just to name a few. 

 

We aren't even released yet, although I do see a problem with the promotion of the game and communications sometimes.  I still see NQ as innovators and trying to bring in something new to the gaming industry nonetheless.

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As LazyPeon said in one of his videos not too long ago, it's not the features that make an mmorpg.

 

As I still can't see who the game designer is, it remains for me a product that has cobbled together a few unfinished, unpolished features that are still waiting for other unreleased features.

 

0.23, which was probably meant to be played together with others, achieved the opposite and made it a dependency on other players. Well, provided you still play with your friends. 

But apart from that, I don't know of any other mmorpg that prevents interaction with friends to such an extent and is unfriendly to groups. 

 

Until then, I'll let myself be surprised what will make it into the live version next, what wasn't in the PTS, only to deactivate it again on the same day because it wasn't tested and was faulty.

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1 hour ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

I don't think a wipe will happen but if it does man the motivation to grind for the fourth time will suck.  I started playing in Alpha and already went through a couple server wipes.  Having to rebuild for the fourth time wouldn't be fun for me.  But I love the game too much too complain lol so who knows.

Maybe for release, but if they wipe before then they will lose two many players to continue 

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8 hours ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

I don't think a wipe will happen but if it does man the motivation to grind for the fourth time will suck.  I started playing in Alpha and already went through a couple server wipes.  Having to rebuild for the fourth time wouldn't be fun for me.  But I love the game too much too complain lol so who knows.

I like the game. But not that much. 
Another wipe would finish me off. 
It’s just a game and if it becomes a job, I’m out of here. restarting a fourth time would be one time too many in my book. 
 

unless they’d be giving us magic blueprints, I’d be logging off for the final time. 

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A wipe won't fix any of their core issues.  But at this point it won't make anything too much worse.  Even in one of the largest guilds in the game almost nobody is playing,  probably less than 10% of our "used to be active players" are even logging in daily now.  A wipe and we would lose even more of those.  But would even really notice the loss?

 

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Wipe will make some sense, if they approch it with serious (if not total overhaul) of economy/balance/zoning, etc for release. Considering, that 9 of 10 (or more) people generaly not liked game in current state/direction (left totaly or just not playing for months), it will be not that bad of gamble, even if with some sad losses. As being said in many instances, it can't be worse already.

 

Will NQ have balls/capacity to make such drammatic changes?

 

I doubt it. More likely slow torment of not working/cringly half-measures (like 0.23) awaits us.

 

 

 

 

 

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I think a wipe for full , if the get there, is inevitable.

 

Orrrr.... they could keep their "no more wipe" policy....

 

Just keep the beta server but make full release a whole new blank server.. and keep beta server around as a legacy

 

With everything that I have read about that has happened the entire system need to be polished off and finalized then wiped so they can offer a fresh world to a new larger audience.

 

A proper full launch would mean marketing and potentially huge player base.

 

If all the current stuff is rolled over it will pollute the integrity of a fresh start.

 

Besides I think 0.23 killed the population largely because it made the time vestments and progress which was previously a good strategy(building everything yourself) into the worst strategy

 

Imagine you played mage in an mmo, but after leveling for months they nerfed all spells so bad the mage was completely unplayable.. of course you just quit.

 

A wipe would likely bring alot of those players back because they would feel like it's a fresh start... assuming they can trust they won't spend months on a strat that gets nerfed into oblivion

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16 hours ago, Treelover69 said:

Imo this is needed economy wise. But there's no point until they actually implement a solution to fix the imbalance of supply/demand. 

I hope they have the guts to do it but at the same time it's a massive risk because of everything everyones built, so I don't expect they'll pull the trigger.

 

Agreed.

 

As a builder I am generally against a wipe. But if they have to do it, then the bare minimum would be that before the wipe NQ first fix the reasons for needing a wipe in the first place.

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9 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

then the bare minimum would be that before the wipe NQ first fix the reasons for needing a wipe in the first place.

Loooong shot, which is why i'm so against a wipe in the near future, DU is still broken and a buggy as shit grind simulator, I wouldn't want a repeat of the current DU experience.

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11 minutes ago, CptLoRes said:

Agreed.

 

As a builder I am generally against a wipe. But if they have to do it, then the bare minimum would be that before the wipe NQ first fix the reasons for needing a wipe in the first place.

As I just said..

 

I think when the time comes.  It's likely full release will be a fresh server but the keep beta as a legacy alive.

 

That way they keep their no more wipes promise.. hut also get a fresh start upon full release

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4 hours ago, Revelcro said:

A wipe won't fix any of their core issues.

No, but a whipe makes sense after fixing the core issues. Otherwise the final game would inherit the problems resulting from the current issues. Of course it's a pain to start from scratch once a gain and many players might prefer starting with a different game instead. However, that's not much of a problem considering that after fixing the core issues DU will be a different game as well.

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1 hour ago, Vasten said:

As I just said..

 

I think when the time comes.  It's likely full release will be a fresh server but the keep beta as a legacy alive.

 

That way they keep their no more wipes promise.. hut also get a fresh start upon full release

They could keep this server as a permanent beta, rolling out changes here first and testing them before moving them to the main server. 

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Tbh, I’d be happy if they just kept the static structures without any elements. The amount of time I’ve spent on voxel work alone is almost unholy!

 

The main problem with unbalance right now was the ridiculous 99% discount on schematics...
 

and the continued existence of bots

  selling schematics. 

  Buying ore. 
 

The entire game is designed as an almost endless vicious cycle for money makers. 
 

more money means more schematics means more money. More money offsets the cost of schematics allowing the making of more money. 
 

There really should have been some limits to industry, like static cores, limiting the number of running industries based on skills. 

 

there is no obsolescence, no wear and tear and no scale based overheads like rent, maintenance, power. 
 

pure profit with little additional overhead. 
 

This makes it improbable that any player starting even just a year later will be able to achieve anything competitive. 
 

 

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58 minutes ago, GraXXoR said:

This makes it improbable that any player starting even just a year later will be able to achieve anything competitive. 

By the time we get there they will add stuff that compensate. Like soft wiping wealth by introducing higher income and "power" or whatever to limit solo player mega factories.

 

The question is, will DU get there at all or not as there is 0 reasons to play atm.

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Limit, sort of middle name by now for DU 

D "limit and restricted" U

even the real world doesnt have this many restrictions but apparently the one designing Life didnt feel like that, even added Life 2.0 after you finished endgame that has even less restrictions apparently

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4 hours ago, XKentX said:

By the time we get there they will add stuff that compensate. Like soft wiping wealth by introducing higher income and "power" or whatever to limit solo player mega factories.

 

The question is, will DU get there at all or not as there is 0 reasons to play atm.

0 reason for you, perhaps. Our org is enjoying continuing to build our city out. We are simple folk, builders... we build... and fun is had in large quantities. But as I have said many times, this game needs solid PvP to make true on their promise of a living universe.

They also need to remove all the bots, including the shysters selling schematics.

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