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PVP possible in "Safe Zone"


JoniAdama
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1 minute ago, Frigidman said:

Speaking for us pirates. Yes... we will.

Eh - don't be so quick to make these claims before you have any idea how atmo pvp will work.

 

It's entirely possible that it will be even worse than the current space pvp.

 

 

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I've never believed in a company banning players because of exploits, especially for an MMO...if you don't want players to exploit something, how about fixing it, instead...? It's your programming error and you shouldn't be surprised that the "honor system" doesn't work. Bans are a fear-based way to buy the devs more time to fix their mistakes, which NQ isn't very quick to do. 

 

I also don't agree with people arguing that something should stay in the game because it "makes it more realistic".

 

Realism isn't the the main consideration for successful game design. 

 

There's always going to be lots of elements in DU that aren't "realistic" because it's a game, and it has to work as a game.

 

Features need to have an actual purpose cohesive to the design of the game beyond "that's how it might work in reality". There needs to be a certain level of fairness that doesn't exist in the real world -- e.g. having clear rules for when your ships are safe or not. If parking in a random tile is a risk, that needs to be reflected in the rules/tutorials and balanced into the game. 

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36 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Eh - don't be so quick to make these claims before you have any idea how atmo pvp will work.

 

It's entirely possible that it will be even worse than the current space pvp.

 

 

What claims tho? Lets think about this. Atmo pvp and territory warfare are CONFIRMED.  So if someone is on an unclaimed tile (not in a safe zone) then it will be able to be shot.  No "exploit" is needed to haul it away to shoot it.  The ore at least at this point is all on Planets/moons.  When is a ship most vulnerable? flying around where it can warp/evade or when its stationary on the ground and its only pilot is 1k deep with a scanner out.  Doesn't matter how atmo pvp will work, because its confirmed to be coming.

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40 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Eh - don't be so quick to make these claims before you have any idea how atmo pvp will work.

 

It's entirely possible that it will be even worse than the current space pvp.

 

 

:(

 

Dont be such a downer! Hope is a powerful thing.

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Just now, JohnnyTazer said:

What claims tho? Lets think about this. Atmo pvp and territory warfare are CONFIRMED.  So if someone is on an unclaimed tile (not in a safe zone) then it will be able to be shot.  No "exploit" is needed to haul it away to shoot it.  The ore at least at this point is all on Planets/moons.  When is a ship most vulnerable? flying around where it can warp/evade or when its stationary on the ground and its only pilot is 1k deep with a scanner out.  Doesn't matter how atmo pvp will work, because its confirmed to be coming.

Until we know HOW pvp will work in atmo I will not make any claims about how pirates will blot out the sun and fill their cargoholds full of loot.

 

You're welcome to theory craft all you want - but don't be surprised if the end result isn't in line with your theories - after all - is the space pvp what you had in mind? Sure isn't what I had in mind....

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5 minutes ago, Mordgier said:

Until we know HOW pvp will work in atmo I will not make any claims about how pirates will blot out the sun and fill their cargoholds full of loot.

 

You're welcome to theory craft all you want - but don't be surprised if the end result isn't in line with your theories - after all - is the space pvp what you had in mind? Sure isn't what I had in mind....

You are mis-understanding me.  I have 0 theories on how atmo pvp will work.  Only that it WILL work in some way.  And that leaving your ship, parked, on an unclaimed tile, while mining, is probably going to be dangerous, thus going back to my original statement, Him being paranoid isn't a bad thing, because soon enough you wont need an exploit to shoot someone on a planet.  

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3 hours ago, Mordgier said:

I'm sorry for your paranoia. It's entirely unfounded.
Neverminded that you could waypoint your ship and if you happen to see it drifting - just force respawn and fly it to safety.
his issue has been entirely blown our of proportion

mm? the waypoint is for the base of the tether shaft, it's required for mining.

 Paranoia - ` a mental condition characterized by delusions of persecution `
hardly, this fear is based upon an objective truth.
if the `exploit` isn't resolved, it will eventually happen to someone while they are under their craft.
This is only my 3rd post on this thread and i believe i've been entirely pragmatic.
I can see what you mean by blown out of proportion however, i have had no part in that.
we're not going to resolve this with emotion there's no point getting carried away.
it will be addressed in the fullness of time.

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3 hours ago, JohnnyTazer said:

So if someone is on an unclaimed tile (not in a safe zone) then it will be able to be shot.  No "exploit" is needed to haul it away to shoot it.  

True, if someone parks a construct on an unclaimed tile it's fair game as long as this is not in a safe zone.

I also see no problem with someone claiming a tile with a construct parked on it. I do see an issue currently with then being able to piggy back that construct onto a bigger core  and flying it into space to destroy and claim it.

 

I'm fairly confident that the average lone wolf pirate or even a small group of pirates will not be able to do much in the form of Territory warfare. I expect it to be very costly, hard and demanding on the attacking side. And it should be.

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30 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

I'm fairly confident that the average lone wolf pirate or even a small group of pirates will not be able to do much in the form of Territory warfare. I expect it to be very costly, hard and demanding on the attacking side. And it should be.

 

Given the planned complete inability to build unmanned defenses, I am not so sure. Nobody has any idea how it will work at all or what it would take to claim a TCU.

 

The only thing I promise you is that it's going to be an extremely rough few months once it's introduced. 

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27 minutes ago, Talonclaw said:

Fixed an exploit involving an inappropriate use of the Maneuver Tool

Anyone know what the change actually is? I can think of a couple questionable uses.

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  • Parenting Ships - Dragged to PVP Space: This is a hot topic and one we wish to be very clear on. Intentionally parenting any construct without permission of the owner is not intended for game play. A fix has been rolled out that will address the ability to parent constructs together via the maneuver tool. As we have not previously clarified this point, we will not retroactively punish this abuse, as of this moment forward abusing similar bugs/tools to replicate this maneuver in its current state can result in disciplinary actions on an account. [Not Allowed]
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4 hours ago, Talonclaw said:
  • Parenting Ships - Dragged to PVP Space: This is a hot topic and one we wish to be very clear on. Intentionally parenting any construct without permission of the owner is not intended for game play. A fix has been rolled out that will address the ability to parent constructs together via the maneuver tool. As we have not previously clarified this point, we will not retroactively punish this abuse, as of this moment forward abusing similar bugs/tools to replicate this maneuver in its current state can result in disciplinary actions on an account. [Not Allowed]

They just banned in game theft.  Even in pvp zones.

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45 minutes ago, Anopheles said:

Even in pvp zones.

What do you mean? In pvp zone you don't need to use maneuver tool, you just shoot ship with weapons until core is destroyed.

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1 hour ago, BaconofWar said:

Garbage ""FIX" - right now I can't dock my own ships to my own ships using the MAV. I immediately take damage if I try to fly off. GARBAGE!

You have to landed to dock it to prevent damage to your parent ship, I highly recommend putting some landing gear on the child construct.

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3 minutes ago, Iorail said:

You have to landed to dock it to prevent damage to your parent ship, I highly recommend putting some landing gear on the child construct.

So if i want to dock a ship onto my ship, no exploits, just normal gameplay, whats the current way? I just take the smaller ship, and fly/land on it. and then it works? 

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18 minutes ago, JohnnyTazer said:

So if i want to dock a ship onto my ship, no exploits, just normal gameplay, whats the current way? I just take the smaller ship, and fly/land on it. and then it works? 

Correct, but there are some minor issues when the child construct doesn’t have landing gear to “attach itself” to the parent construct.

So far:

-Using the maneuvering tool to place a smaller core into a larger core will not docked it and when you try to take off, the smaller core will damage the bigger core (the rule of immobile objects will always win against mobile ones).

-Landing a smaller core without landing gear on a bigger core to docked it, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t , could be bugged.

-Using landing gear will docked it 100% of the times so far, will update if this starts to fail also.

 

This fix also prevents other “issues” that people where abusing, so they better turn their container cores into proper ships, cause just adding landing gears and using the maneuvering tool don’t work either.

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15 hours ago, Anopheles said:

They just banned in game theft.  Even in pvp zones.

You even have "steal" button if you are member of more than 1 org. There is no ban on it.
There is no ban at all on dragging stuff / repairing cores inside pvp zone. 
The only thing they banned is abusing exploits in safe zone. SAFE zone. 
 

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On 10/6/2020 at 9:23 PM, michaelk said:

I've never believed in a company banning players because of exploits, especially for an MMO...if you don't want players to exploit something, how about fixing it, instead...? It's your programming error and you shouldn't be surprised that the "honor system" doesn't work. Bans are a fear-based way to buy the devs more time to fix their mistakes, which NQ isn't very quick to do. 

 

I also don't agree with people arguing that something should stay in the game because it "makes it more realistic".

 

Realism isn't the the main consideration for successful game design. 

 

There's always going to be lots of elements in DU that aren't "realistic" because it's a game, and it has to work as a game.

 

Features need to have an actual purpose cohesive to the design of the game beyond "that's how it might work in reality". There needs to be a certain level of fairness that doesn't exist in the real world -- e.g. having clear rules for when your ships are safe or not. If parking in a random tile is a risk, that needs to be reflected in the rules/tutorials and balanced into the game. 

Beta........

They will probably come to that, fix it you know.

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7 hours ago, Elrood said:

You even have "steal" button if you are member of more than 1 org. There is no ban on it.
There is no ban at all on dragging stuff / repairing cores inside pvp zone. 
The only thing they banned is abusing exploits in safe zone. SAFE zone. 
 

Safe from pvp or ava, not from all negative interaction.

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flying my mini constructs is not working...

Here's my rant on this topic.

Basically, flying the child construct doesn't work... I've tried voxel legs on the child constructs and the landing pad is pure voxels.. When I get out of the cockpit, the ship continues to move, jump  and slide around for another 30 seconds or so. if I use a ship with landing gear, it just slides off ever so slowly like it's on oil.
 


Here's a bunch of ships that no longer dock with the medium freighter on the left.

eIKeJu4.png

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