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Ambaire

What happens when all resources are mined?

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I have seen no talk of planetary resource regeneration, yet.

 

To take a quick look at some other games with similar gameplay elements:

Space Engineers has infinite asteroids, and its planet deposits are far richer than Dual Universe's. 

Eve Online's asteroids respawn every day.

Empyrion has meteorites that fall on a planet if all deposits of a type are mined.

No Man's Sky has basically infinite resources even on a single planet.

Factorio has a basically infinite map with resource deposits getting larger and larger as one gets further from the center.

Oxygen Not Included allows rockets to be launched to planets to retrieve resources.

Surviving Mars has the Mohole wonder which gives basically infinite resources once constructed.

 

What mechanisms will be in place for this in Dual Universe? I am especially concerned about this as some resources can only safely be obtained from relatively small moons, and once those moons are mined out entirely (I see this as inevitable considering the territory scanner mechanic and how many people are in the larger organizations), there will be no easy way for new players to obtain them without needing to resort to market trade. Even venturing further, the resources are limited.

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Currently the only renewable resources are the surface deposits. Those respawn quite fast, but are obviously the worst source of resources. Everything else in the game will eventually run out. (Though asteroids may become another infinite source down the road.) The devs claim it will take years to mine out the starter planet... I chuckle every time they say that. It won't last a year. I've single handedly since beta started mined out 3 tiles down to 2000m. If everyone did that at my pace it'd run out in a few months.

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Guys, in all this discussions (that in different forms lasting now for years), you missing 3 important points:

 

1) Current generation will not need to last long, only until NQ remake of plantes (~ 3 m / half of year), with this whole world will be renewed.

2) When planets regened (and all ore restored), they then add Space Mining, that I strongly suspect, will have some renewable mechanic in it.

3) Then it will be whole new systems eventualy...

 

Also, to be honest, NQ proved to be relativly "soft and caring" developer for casual player base, so if some critical situation with ore developes, they most likely agressivly intervene to balance it.

 

All this means realisticly --  there is nothing to fear, some minor scarcitiy is possible, but nothing more. 

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Just now, le_souriceau said:

you missing 3 important points

And you missed my point. I created this thread as a discussion about a current gameplay element and what its future would be regardless of any future wipes.

 

Also, I suspect that the time until resources are depleted may be much less than half a year, especially on Sanctuary and the moons of the planets inside the safe zone.

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The current answer is "NQ will deal with it." 

Currently NQ as confirm the use of 2 mechanisms:

1 - Manual reseed the planet in question, regenerating the ore nodes on the planet. 

2 - Introduction of new planets and systems with more ore. 

 

Many players have asked NQ for automatic respawn of ores. But NQ has not shown any commitment to this solution. 

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This has been something I've been concerned about as well. If they want to maintain "realism" with resources then regenerating planets is not going to happen. The best bet in my opinion is mining asteroids. I would like to see both "static" asteroids, ones that are large enough to built a base on/in, and regenerating asteroids that may "collapse" after being mined sufficiently only to re-spawn after a time, probably not in exactly the same place, or with the same resources.


I've already mined out all the veins of Iron on my Sanctuary hex, and am getting close with the rest of the T1 ores. I've only mined a few T2 veins, but there are only so many of them and if I tried I could probably mine out an entire Sanctuary Hex in a day or two of all T1 and T2 ores if that is all I concentrate on. The need for resources is huge. It takes almost 1 and a half Veins (Sanctuary veins are usually 4-5k L of ore) of Iron to make 1 large container. I am at the point where I HAVE to leave Sanctuary and I worry about finding a hex elsewhere that has access to a good market and hasn't already had people mining it because of the ability to mine unclaimed hexes. I have some ideas on ways to regenerate on planet, ignoring reality, but that is for it's own thread.

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If they want wars to happen sometimes down the lane over resources, then those resources need to be finite and not respawn magically, also there seem to be some scavenging gameplay which means at least a percentage of the resources will be recycled.

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On 9/5/2020 at 3:16 AM, Anopheles said:

I think they will introduce new planets 

and systems as resources run low.

That does not solve anything. It will only allow established groups to get the majority, if not all, the resource.

 

Also what happens to the new player that shows up 1 year later and has no money and no ore as the every place they can get to is stripped bare. It can be very frustrating getting all you can from 20 units at a time especially when you are new.

 

I am not a doom and gloom player I just look toward the future and I have faith in the developers that there will be a solution in the near future

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On 9/5/2020 at 8:31 AM, Ambaire said:

Also, I suspect that the time until resources are depleted may be much less than half a year, especially on Sanctuary and the moons of the planets inside the safe zone.

270,000 tiles on Alioth alone (a rough estimate less than 5% of them gone), + surface ore, + other planets, + market bots (+others sources in the future).  Are you basing this on anything more than a suspicion?  Any actually statistical evidence it will run out, or are you just sticking your finger in the air?  If it is the later, I will move along, there is nothing to see here.

Oh and your ore on sanctuary moon - it is a crutch.....
 

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46 minutes ago, Nepocrates said:

That does not solve anything. It will only allow established groups to get the majority, if not all, the resource.

 

Also what happens to the new player that shows up 1 year later and has no money and no ore as the every place they can get to is stripped bare. It can be very frustrating getting all you can from 20 units at a time especially when you are new.

 

I am not a doom and gloom player I just look toward the future and I have faith in the developers that there will be a solution in the near future

New players at that stage will be greeted with a wealth of opportunities from the civilisation that we have built, if they choose to ignore it and go try and hermit, that is up to them.

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I really think they will come up with space exploration.  How they do it idk maybe a new radar element.  Than gets relative pings certain SU away in random directions. There you can find asteroids to mine, and ships to salvage.  Think about it, that would mean unlimited ore, just gotta go find it. Would be a reason for people out In deep space. 

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34 minutes ago, Moosegun said:

New players at that stage will be greeted with a wealth of opportunities from the civilisation that we have built, if they choose to ignore it and go try and hermit, that is up to them.

Fair enough. Thanks for the laugh I needed it

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In an interview posted yesterday. JC said that the wipe will only be a graphical update, everything else will stay the same. No resource regeneration.

 

They don't plan to change anything unless there is a game breaking bug. All new resources will be put into a new star system.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Nepocrates said:

Fair enough. Thanks for the laugh I needed it

Is that a bit like laughing at a joke you dont understand, just to fit in?

I dont expect some players to believe it or understand it, but there are enough players out there with the willingness and resources to make new user experiences by the time the ore runs out (which will be a LONG time). You need to understand there are members of the community with the skills to acquire huge quantities of resources (hundreds of millions already), much of which will go into community focused projects, some of these have already started.

That is no problem, some of us will make the game, some will just play it.

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On 9/5/2020 at 8:29 AM, le_souriceau said:

Guys, in all this discussions (that in different forms lasting now for years), you missing 3 important points:

 

1) Current generation will not need to last long, only until NQ remake of plantes (~ 3 m / half of year), with this whole world will be renewed.

Actually, the interview with JC the other day says they're shelving the plan to remake planets. The existing ones will get some tinkering around the edges (textures and some more biology, maybe) but they're considered "not so bad", and the new planet tech will be launched when new systems are opened up.

Quote

2) When planets regened (and all ore restored), they then add Space Mining, that I strongly suspect, will have some renewable mechanic in it.

We don't know that space mining will be renewable... but that would be an easy way to represent a near-infinite mass of resources drifting in and out of practical industrial reach on an unpredictable basis.

Quote

3) Then it will be whole new systems eventualy...

Indeed. That same interview said new systems will be the primary source of new resources. To give the incentive to get "out there".

 

Quote

 

Also, to be honest, NQ proved to be relativly "soft and caring" developer for casual player base, so if some critical situation with ore developes, they most likely agressivly intervene to balance it.

 

All this means realisticly --  there is nothing to fear, some minor scarcitiy is possible, but nothing more. 

In the interview, JC said that if resources start running low before the new methods of finding new resources are ready, mined-out resource nodes could be restored. So yeah, No worries. Pragmatically, NQ aren't just going to leave us fighting over the last Coal node; that would kill their game. Of course there will be new sources of minerals provided.

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Of course they are going to have to do something about the ore being depleted. Mining is like %60 of this game. So far I absolutely love this game but I'm pretty sure that opinion will change when I can't find any ore to mine. I don't think they should be taking this so lightly. Games have died for less.

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5 minutes ago, brian.j.baughman@gmail.com said:

Of course they are going to have to do something about the ore being depleted. Mining is like %60 of this game. So far I absolutely love this game but I'm pretty sure that opinion will change when I can't find any ore to mine. I don't think they should be taking this so lightly. Games have died for less.

Whose says they are taking it lightly.  A HUGE gameplay loop, could be exploring in space, and find and asteroid with large ore deposits.  And the devs could make these spawn as often as they like, and despawn after a time period.  That adds 2 things, exploration, and more ore. Maybe even some rare ore can only be found on asteroids deep in random space.  That type of gameplay probably sounds appealing to a lot of people.

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People who are concerned about the resources in this game have no concept of the sheer scale of this game.

 

We could all be mining 24/7 for the next year and we still wouldn't be close to mining everything out.

 

 

Asking what you do in DU when resources run out is like asking what to do in Elite Dangerous when the galaxy is fully explored.

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10 hours ago, Mordgier said:

People who are concerned about the resources in this game have no concept of the sheer scale of this game.

 

We could all be mining 24/7 for the next year and we still wouldn't be close to mining everything out.

 

 

Asking what you do in DU when resources run out is like asking what to do in Elite Dangerous when the galaxy is fully explored.

I find it interesting that JC didn't put it this way in his interview. He was musing about the possibility of replenishing ore deposits. You may be right, but I wonder.

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6 hours ago, Kezzle said:

I find it interesting that JC didn't put it this way in his interview. He was musing about the possibility of replenishing ore deposits. You may be right, but I wonder.

He said they are able to do so - not so much that would. He seemed more interested in moving the starting zone to a whole new area that is getting the graphics update.

 

Which I guess is how the newbie experience will progress, new ark ships landing on new planets and so on which makes sense to me.

 

Plus the approach of new Ark ships landing on new planets makes a lot more sense than ore magically respawning - I really hate the magic rocks everywhere.

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1 hour ago, Mordgier said:

He said they are able to do so - not so much that would. He seemed more interested in moving the starting zone to a whole new area that is getting the graphics update.

 

Which I guess is how the newbie experience will progress, new ark ships landing on new planets and so on which makes sense to me.

 

Plus the approach of new Ark ships landing on new planets makes a lot more sense than ore magically respawning - I really hate the magic rocks everywhere.

The need to drastically reduce surface ores, maybe except sanc. No one uses them on other planets.  It's a waste of time mining them if you arent new. They are a terrible eye sore.  

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1 hour ago, Mordgier said:

He said they are able to do so - not so much that would. He seemed more interested in moving the starting zone to a whole new area that is getting the graphics update.

 

Which I guess is how the newbie experience will progress, new ark ships landing on new planets and so on which makes sense to me.

 

Plus the approach of new Ark ships landing on new planets makes a lot more sense than ore magically respawning - I really hate the magic rocks everywhere.

What I meant was, that he didn't flat out say "Oh, there's plenty of stuff in the ground. You lot haven't started scratching at it yet!" or words to that effect, which suggests to me that maybe we are making significant dents in the reserves. He seemed fairly confident they'd have new planets for us before we run out of stuff to dig up, though; it was just interesting he wasn't sure.

 

I also got the clear feeling that if for whatever reason we did run out of stuff to dig before new sources can be made available to us, it was a given that they would respawn the "known" nodes. He seemed pretty sure he wasn't going to leave us with nothing to mine.

 

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Just now, JohnnyTazer said:

The need to drastically reduce surface ores, maybe except sanc. No one uses them on other planets.  It's a waste of time mining them if you arent new. They are a terrible eye sore.  

Good point. Terrible drag on the game's processors too, given their lack of utility. Only time I get a hitch in framerate is when all those rocks spawn as I descend below 50m from the surface...

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