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Lulichika

EVE Invasion

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For a few moments, imagine the vine invasion on YouTube when vine was shutdown. Would the sameness thing happen in DU where it was over run with EVE vets, making the game harder for new players to enter the community both in game and on the forums?

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I don't think very many games are going to win over the die-hard Eve vets, even Dual Universe. 

While they share similarities in design philosophy, the gameplay of both games is drastically different.

 

There will be plenty of ex-Eve players coming into DU, but on the flipside, many of those vets will stay with Eve till the bitter end. 

 

 

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Just now, yamamushi said:

I don't think very many games are going to win over the die-hard Eve vets, even Dual Universe. 

While they share similarities in design philosophy, the gameplay of both games is drastically different.

 

There will be plenty of ex-Eve players coming into DU, but on the flipside, many of those vets will stay with Eve till the bitter end. 

 

 

well now that you say "Ex-Eve" players, i'm thinking about all the players that were banned or kicked from the community looking to settle their roots in this game. Which may lead to a trend of Ex-eve players coming to DU as an alternative to Eve. And seeing how devoted most of the players in Eve are ,some even willing to fork over 1000s of dollars on titans, what horrible thing could they have done to be kicked from that community. Maybe steal from a major faction, initiate a war between two super powers for their own benefit, scamming new players into giving them all they have until they penniless, attacking players in real life for IN-GAME benefit. I'm just worried that this new space sim with the advance politics promised on launch will leave the community being a hub for Ex-Eve players, while pushing those that were here from the start out of the community due to toxicity.

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10 minutes ago, Lulichika said:

well now that you say "Ex-Eve" players, i'm thinking about all the players that were banned or kicked from the community looking to settle their roots in this game. Which may lead to a trend of Ex-eve players coming to DU as an alternative to Eve. And seeing how devoted most of the players in Eve are ,some even willing to fork over 1000s of dollars on titans, what horrible thing could they have done to be kicked from that community. Maybe steal from a major faction, initiate a war between two super powers for their own benefit, scamming new players into giving them all they have until they penniless, attacking players in real life for IN-GAME benefit. I'm just worried that this new space sim with the advance politics promised on launch will leave the community being a hub for Ex-Eve players, while pushing those that were here from the start out of the community due to toxicity.

 

Nothing like palace intrigue to spice up the gameplay. B)

 

Seriously though, I am not sure if this will happen. There is no indication that those people will actually want to move over (barring Frogswarm and probably a few others). We will cross that bridge when we get there I guess.

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Just now, Oxyorum said:

 

Nothing like palace intrigue to spice up the gameplay. B)

 

Seriously though, I am not sure if this will happen. There is no indication that those people will actually want to move over (barring Frogswarm and probably a few others). We will cross that bridge when we get there I guess.

So is there no way of doing anything about it until it's upon us

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5 hours ago, Lulichika said:

well now that you say "Ex-Eve" players, i'm thinking about all the players that were banned or kicked from the community looking to settle their roots in this game. Which may lead to a trend of Ex-eve players coming to DU as an alternative to Eve. And seeing how devoted most of the players in Eve are ,some even willing to fork over 1000s of dollars on titans, what horrible thing could they have done to be kicked from that community. Maybe steal from a major faction, initiate a war between two super powers for their own benefit, scamming new players into giving them all they have until they penniless, attacking players in real life for IN-GAME benefit. I'm just worried that this new space sim with the advance politics promised on launch will leave the community being a hub for Ex-Eve players, while pushing those that were here from the start out of the community due to toxicity.

those examples you gave there are neither toxic, bad nor unwanted. If it stays ingame, everything is valid gameplay to get an edge over others. Can't kill their defense? Burn that alt you left in that org to deactivate them. Can't compete with an org? Infiltrate them and steal everything they got.

Such gameplay creates content for everyone and isn't really toxic.

Many eve players are already here (I'm one of them) but as said, DU is different and NQ will handle stuff differently from CCP

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Honestly Lethys got a point this feels like totally valid gameplay - honestly even if it is aggressive or not 'moral' isn't that part of what makes a player-driven game what it is?

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Am I cool for saying I am also a former EvE player (but not even remotely a vet since I did not play it long)?  :P

"We are everywhere, hue hue hue!"

 

In all seriousness, some things that EvE might encourage or might have encouraged are pretty much universal. While EvE often seems to offer the most spectacular examples (because the game naturally seems to support it), I think it might almost be unfair to at least indirectly give EvE players a potential bad label for things that happen in other games but maybe do not get even playboy articles about the wonderful in-game and out of game tales (see playboy article about the known user "vilerat" who died in the US Embassy attack).

 

Other than that, perhaps time will tell what will happen. If DU becomes successful it might turn into a sandbox EvE with new wonderous tales that swap into the news.

 

As long as it happens in the frame and scope of the game, it's "legit", whether affected people subjectively like or, most notably, dislike it.

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I'm not sure that DU will actually appeal to "EVE players". At a glance, EVE and DU look very similar, but I think they will play quite differently. DU has far more "simulation" in the game features, which tends to make everything more slow-paced.

 

I expect that EVE's game play will be "fast-paced" compared to DU ! :D

 

In EVE, combat is very important, because there needs to be a way of removing the millions of tons of resources that are mined every day... and then respawn to be mined again a day or two later. In DU, resources don't spawn in known locations that can be bookmarked and revisited every few days, areas can actually be "mined-out", requiring prospecting in new areas, which takes time and additional logistics. 

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2 hours ago, NanoDot said:

I'm not sure that DU will actually appeal to "EVE players". At a glance, EVE and DU look very similar, but I think they will play quite differently. DU has far more "simulation" in the game features, which tends to make everything more slow-paced.

 

I expect that EVE's game play will be "fast-paced" compared to DU ! :D

 

In EVE, combat is very important, because there needs to be a way of removing the millions of tons of resources that are mined every day... and then respawn to be mined again a day or two later. In DU, resources don't spawn in known locations that can be bookmarked and revisited every few days, areas can actually be "mined-out", requiring prospecting in new areas, which takes time and additional logistics. 

Nah. That wont be the issue. The real issue will be the time needed to setup ambushes, traveling to/from the combat zones. (As well as multi-person crewed ships). Materials will alway flow....  ;)

 

But yes it will be slower paced in many respects.

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23 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

Nah. That wont be the issue. The real issue will be the time needed to setup ambushes, traveling to/from the combat zones. (As well as multi-person crewed ships). Materials will alway flow....  ;)

 

But yes it will be slower paced in many respects.

Yes, "materials will always flow", but in EVE you can finance yourself as a new player without ever having to touch a mining laser or training mining-related skills. NPC missions and belt-rat bounties (and rare drops) are a solid cash faucet in EVE, which is entirely absent in DU.

 

The only facet of EVE that I see translating 100% to DU is the political intrigue...

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On 10/13/2018 at 9:09 PM, NanoDot said:

The only facet of EVE that I see translating 100% to DU is the political intrigue...

Which, let's be honest, is the best part of EVE ahahah

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On 10/12/2018 at 1:39 PM, CoreVamore said:

Nah. That wont be the issue. The real issue will be the time needed to setup ambushes, traveling to/from the combat zones. (As well as multi-person crewed ships). Materials will alway flow....  ;)

 

Multi person crewed ships seems to be a dangerous concept for me. It adds dependency on other people not only in social aspect, but also on their hardware capacity. So if someone from crew drops off - it's harms much more than if just a random single-piloted ships disconnects. But we'll see how it works in future...

 

On 10/12/2018 at 11:13 AM, NanoDot said:

In EVE, combat is very important, because there needs to be a way of removing the millions of tons of resources that are mined every day... and then respawn to be mined again a day or two later. In DU, resources don't spawn in known locations that can be bookmarked and revisited every few days, areas can actually be "mined-out", requiring prospecting in new areas, which takes time and additional logistics. 

The static spawn point of resources in EvE is not always that good. It means pvp dudes can easily predict where miners are located. Also it means if you leave on heavily populated areas - you may not be able to mine for few days in row just because someone already cleared belts/anomalies and respawn is out of your personal prime-time. 

In DU even if you need to scan each time, you will be independent from spawn period. So it's just the same thing from another angle. 

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In MMOs, there's one true universal principle: the strong lives, the weak adapts.

When everyone's ships are getting pillaged, I'll be sure to be a pillager.

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37 minutes ago, Miamato said:

The static spawn point of resources in EvE is not always that good. It means pvp dudes can easily predict where miners are located. Also it means if you leave on heavily populated areas - you may not be able to mine for few days in row just because someone already cleared belts/anomalies and respawn is out of your personal prime-time. 

In DU even if you need to scan each time, you will be independent from spawn period. So it's just the same thing from another angle.

No, it's not the same thing.

 

In EVE, the asteroid belts start regrowing after the next maintenance cycle. The resources always respawn, and always in the same place. Whether you collect them or someone else doesn't matter, it's a steady and endless supply of resources with a relatively short respawn timer. EVE's high-sec space doesn't have any ores of great value, but it has thousands of asteroid belts. None of them ever get very fat...

 

To keep things balanced, that high rate of ore supply must be countered with a high rate of asset destruction, otherwise the bottom will fall out of the ore market, and the economy will grind to a halt. In EVE, the average player doesn't build personal bases, cities or roads. There's no lavish mansions, no furniture and no "corporate boardrooms"... or bathrooms.

 

The vast bulk of EVE's daily mined ores go into military production, i.e. ships, modules and ammo.

In DU, infrastructure projects will soak up tons of ore. Entire space stations will have to be built from scratch, as will stargates and cities and personal bases. Additionally, we'll be selling ore to NQ's buy orders, which will be the only way of generating new money in the game. So DU will have many "ore sinks", which means the intensity of combat will probably be lower than in EVE, because military production won't be getting ALL the ore.

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NanoDot is correct.

Like in the reall world most materials will be used for infrastructure in general and only a relative small part for Millitary.   

 

And then the military materials are devided between defence and attack, again leaving less materials for the attackers.  Add to that that only succesfull attacks Might give you materials you were looking for and any failed run or run on the wrong settlement will gain you nothing.

If you combine all of this it results in a massive system that will be needed to produce a few attack vessels. Either that or a desolated landscape with no infrastructure and only small pvp crafts as the whole economy died.

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31 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

No, it's not the same thing.

 

In EVE, the asteroid belts start regrowing after the next maintenance cycle. The resources always respawn, and always in the same place. Whether you collect them or someone else doesn't matter, it's a steady and endless supply of resources with a relatively short respawn timer. EVE's high-sec space doesn't have any ores of great value, but it has thousands of asteroid belts. None of them ever get very fat...

 

To keep things balanced, that high rate of ore supply must be countered with a high rate of asset destruction, otherwise the bottom will fall out of the ore market, and the economy will grind to a halt. In EVE, the average player doesn't build personal bases, cities or roads. There's no lavish mansions, no furniture and no "corporate boardrooms"... or bathrooms.

 

The vast bulk of EVE's daily mined ores go into military production, i.e. ships, modules and ammo.

In DU, infrastructure projects will soak up tons of ore. Entire space stations will have to be built from scratch, as will stargates and cities and personal bases. Additionally, we'll be selling ore to NQ's buy orders, which will be the only way of generating new money in the game. So DU will have many "ore sinks", which means the intensity of combat will probably be lower than in EVE, because military production won't be getting ALL the ore.

That's a little bit wrong. 

First of all the only source of 'out of nowhere' ore are regular ore belts. They re-spawn twice a week. Regular belts don't contain much ore, they have small stones and not so convenient to mine in huge amounts.

Then there is anomaly ore. Anomalies have 2 types - random ones, that do not provide valuable amount of ore; and upgrade dependent. So to have that Colossal, Enormous and lesser anomaly belts you need to fullfill some conditions:

  • Have IHub installed in system. Put industry upgrades there. Both are not cheap and not convenient to transport (especially 4 and 5 lvl). They also require regular ISK payments to work.
  • You need to sustain system industry index - that means if noone mines for few days - you will have less amonalies. So again it means non stop effort required from miners.
  • You need to defend your claim and miners from NPC and PVP dudes.

Another thing - moon belts: 

  • Require citadels, fuel for citadels. 
  • Usually belts are spawned with ~1 month interval per each moon.
  • You have 2 days to grab the ore, or it will disappear till next cycle finishes.
  • You need to defend your claim and miners from NPC and PVP dudes.

From all this sources only anomalies have semi-random place - but considering they are within the same system - it doesn't matter much. So for having all this infrastructure that allow you to mine 'infinite' amounts - you need to spend tons of resources, time and military efforts both for initial setup and for sustaining. So it's incorrect to say, resources appear from nowhere at all. 

 

Also do not forget that to utilize that ore you need large amount of expensive citadels to reprocess ore, to build ship components, to assemble capital and supercapital ships. 

Add military citadels on top, that eat insane amount of resources also. 

 

There are plenty of people who spend resources for building their own bases just for fun, even if they don't need them much. There are plenty of people who collect big ships even if they never fight with them. 

 

If you remember numbers JC told in some of the presentations - planets will be insanely large that means they'll contain amount of resources close to infinite. So the only difference is that instead of EvE like requirement to build 'ore generating' infrastructure - you'll need to spend that effort on moving around and scanning layers of deposits. You'll still need some base to drop off your ore, but you won't need anything to make the ore actually spawn. 

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6 minutes ago, Miamato said:

First of all the only source of 'out of nowhere' ore are regular ore belts. They re-spawn twice a week. Regular belts don't contain much ore, they have small stones and not so convenient to mine in huge amounts.

I haven't played EVE in a very long time, I didn't realise that high-sec ore belts had become so insignificant. I stand corrected ! :D

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3 minutes ago, NanoDot said:

I haven't played EVE in a very long time, I didn't realise that high-sec ore belts had become so insignificant. I stand corrected ! :D

First of all hisec belts don't have all the minerals. Some of them do not exist in hisec at all, some of them are in such a small amount, that you won't be able to build anything descent from them. 

 

So to make the long story short - just imagine full wipe of EvE servers, when all players have no skills, no market exists, no infrastructure - the most demanding profession will be miners and industrial guys. Then mission runners/NPC hunters to provide basic ISK amount for purchasing blueprints from NPC. So it will be exactly the same 'desert' with insane lack of minerals supply and really big demand. 

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I've been playing EvE a long time ago... I don't think it's the same "kind of game"', so I'm not sure it will pull people from EvE to DU.

 

In EvE (except in combat maybe), it's pretty much a "relaxed" game, you can even play two game at the same time.

 

DU will require full attention as it's First Person and you need to control everything (not just target and press)

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One huge difference between Eve and DU is the universe's endlessness!

Piracy left aside, fights are mostly generated by border defence and territory contests. Border defence and territory contests, just like IRL, come down to acquiring and securing resources.
Since it'll be technically feasible to travel as far as you wish to discover new, unhabited planets (which is utterly impossible in Eve), I'd expect less territorial wars (and probably more piracy?)


Once we get to know how fuel is produced, we may see some very unique gameplay emerge: Ever travelling ships, aiming at uncharted territories... Hey, from what we know so far about the game, some colonies might develop during years without even meeting others!

Yeah, I'm getting carried away. My point is, DU's endless map would theoretically give less reasons for large conflicts than Eve.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

It'll be very hard to get some of those die hard EVE players to go away from stuff that they've worked very long and hard for.  Although I imagine some of the smaller groups might make the jump

 

I believe many of these players would actually look forward to DU's release. The thrill of a new challenge! The occassional fleet fight to break your nex toy, just to get a new one within hours (or minutes), ain't really exciting. Super blocks are quite stable now (since I last checked at least), there's no major turmoil. Put it plainly, boooooring....

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