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My biggest worry about this game

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The notion that by deafult an MMO by it's middle M is to be played in groups is really silly and frankly misplaced. All it says is that multiple players will and can be active in the same world, not that people should be forced to right off the bat work together to fence off griefers and thugs who stand around and shoot whomever tries to get out of the Arkzone.

 

It seems that some who potentially have been bullied and victims in EVE without any real way out now look towards DU to basically become the bully. The interpretation of what NQ is putting on their website and general attitude of 'all about combat and conquest' is IMO wrong and should be addressed swift and hard by NQ. Some seem to not be able to rationalize the marketing talk on a website and take it literally. It won't fly as that attitude will cost DU players and as a result income.

 

This will become a problem in DU if not addressed right from the start and I fully expect NQ will do as much. What some here are basically saying is "I can have guns, so it's fine for me to go kill people" and no, it has nothing to do with HTFU if you think that it does. It only shows you have no idea of what that term stands for. There needs to be consequences for choosing to be a bully or a ganker as it is not to be considered social gameplay. In fact is it anti-social and villainous and by choosing that path you place yourself outside society.

 

Now if I decide to go out and transport my resources or run cargo between planets without taking defensive precaution and get attacked and robbed, that is a very different story. But that is not what we are talking about here.

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@Felonu @Forodrim I agree with both your sentiments. I'm hoping the defensive capabilities available are good enough that the game isn't just one sided in the direction of combat.

 

Gun Turrets are great, but that's not really defense, more like counter-offensive. So, I'm hoping Novaquark implements things like area shields, Radar that detects players/vehicles, and similar things the enable more defensive strategies.

 

For most MMO's that stand the test of time, its usually due to the none pvp related activities. The overall premise of Dual Universe is rebuilding civilization, and I think that will be the main draw for most player's, who will take an interest in this game.

 

 

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Rebuilding civilization doesn't take forever, however, depending on how different parties define society or rebuilding it.

 

I thought about pointing that out since I've seen the argument a few times. On the large scale it might be ongoing as new players enter the stage and try to build up whatever society they imagine, for others, the step or phase might be complete at one point. And then they act against others at one point, whether it is forced upon them or if they cast the first stone.

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@supermega radar and shields are planned (See various threads and the Artwork). Shields are a community goal though and possibly not achievable by solo players as those will be very expensive to build and need fuel.

 

@blazemonger yeah there are consequences.... Cause No one will want griefers around. So they will be KOS and every org will deny them access to the market. 

 

I still don't see the problem as, again, it works in eve very well. Griefers aren't a problem at all there - it's just ppl complaining about others who band together and kill solo bling ships. But those ppl don't do anything against it, except complain, so it doesn't change. 

 

If ppl would actually put a little thought in their style of gameplay they would do far better. 

 

I was killed time and time again until my corp showed me the ropes. That was the last time someone got me, all other ships I lost were because of us roaming. 

 

Heck I flew battleships through 6 gatecamps with no problem - a feat i thought Impossible in the beginning with even a fast frigate. 

 

It's really funny to watch this discussion as the "carebears" seem to think that newbros will be killed instantly by a huge numbers of big bad griefers outside the safezone. 

 

For all I care alioth as a whole can be a safezone with no PvP at all, but to me risk vs. Reward is the best balancing mechanic here. 

 

Some builder guy only wants to create statues and buildings? Fine, give him abundant stone resources in the safezone.

 

But as soon as people want to build ships, gates, gather rare resources they should be at risk to lose stuff as the rewards are high. 

 

Will ppl grief you there? Sure. That's why you don't go alone. Or you know, organize resistance. Like they do in eve for years now. There should be basic mechanics to prevent griefing and disencourage ppl to do so, but at the end of the day it's in your/our responsibility as players to disencourage that behavior

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Lethys said:

-snip-

 

Some of those aspects sum up my thoughts about it.

 

To give anyone reading this a better understanding: I don't even consider myself as a hardcore PVP'er or some "badass", or whatever.

 

If I had to summarize, I'd rather focus on creation than destruction. And yet I can't help to agree with some here that some people would consider PVP-focused. In my opinion, some here currently seem overly nervous about an undefined future of DU and some arguments in the debate, on both sides I suppose, seem somewhat exaggerated at times - maybe just to prove a point or because they have that actual fear? I can't tell or look into people's heads, but only wonder.

 

Then again, I suppose my background is a bit different. While I favor creation I ran around PVP / potentially-lose-it-all environments. DayZ, MC, ARMA 1 to 3 (RPG servers), etc. In MC, random people attacked our base (and there were some sort of safezone mechanics, temporary or depending on certain factors).

 

Complaining about those particular threats didn't make them go away. Surviving and fighting them actively usually did the trick in MC, and in other games if it was not possible, evading them was an option. An DayZ RP server is a good example I can give to people. There, currently, a bunch of criminals and communists banded together trying to establish a new state. They want to also disarm people of certain weaponry, causing a large ruckus and lots of heated debates on the radio and maybe in person.

 

Nobody would think of complaining about it, as it's part of the setting and "roleplay" or gameplay. They have many people and you either try to hide or organize a fight and find allies, what some people do. It's simply part of the game to have abstract or specific threats.

 

If we can all agree on that, what are we generally arguing about? Some harder safe zone mechanics will be in the game, but not easily obtainable by loners or perhaps smaller groups - which seems fair to me. There'll be risks and rewards, compromises, mechanics, and something for everyone. But sometimes someone wants to annoy you or bring you down because you stand in their way.

 

Do something about it actively, evade or, either way, simply accept that it could happen and that it is part of the game. The people that attacked us in Minecraft surely didn't want to get "wiped" or vaporized by us after attacking us unprovoked, but that's also part of the game and exactly something you can do if someone attacks you: Fight back.

 

----------------

 

To summarize, it will likely not be that bad as some imagine it. And if something becomes bad, the players (in general) can still try to find a solution or counter-action to this. That's part of 'emergent gameplay' after all I suppose.

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2 hours ago, blazemonger said:

The notion that by deafult an MMO by it's middle M is to be played in groups is really silly and frankly misplaced. All it says is that multiple players will and can be active in the same world, not that people should be forced to right off the bat work together to fence off griefers and thugs who stand around and shoot whomever tries to get out of the Arkzone.

 

It seems that some who potentially have been bullied and victims in EVE without any real way out now look towards DU to basically become the bully. The interpretation of what NQ is putting on their website and general attitude of 'all about combat and conquest' is IMO wrong and should be addressed swift and hard by NQ. Some seem to not be able to rationalize the marketing talk on a website and take it literally. It won't fly as that attitude will cost DU players and as a result income.

 

This will become a problem in DU if not addressed right from the start and I fully expect NQ will do as much. What some here are basically saying is "I can have guns, so it's fine for me to go kill people" and no, it has nothing to do with HTFU if you think that it does. It only shows you have no idea of what that term stands for. There needs to be consequences for choosing to be a bully or a ganker as it is not to be considered social gameplay. In fact is it anti-social and villainous and by choosing that path you place yourself outside society.

 

Now if I decide to go out and transport my resources or run cargo between planets without taking defensive precaution and get attacked and robbed, that is a very different story. But that is not what we are talking about here.

Lol, you can't be bullied in EVE. Only thin-skinned people from Providence get easily offen-- oh... yeah... that's your lot. EVE"s butt-end of the joke "Providence is safe".

You want Babysitting, NQ is adamant on not babysitting, they sold the game as such on the AMAs of the Kickstarter. But don't let NQ's own interpretation tell you what's the facts, I bet you have a better insight than the developers on what they want for the game. As they said "griefing and scamming won't be punished, harrassment is where we intervene". What's harrassment? Telling people "I will skin your cat alive". That's harrassment. Or GigX, claiming he would cut the Judge's hands' off. Thatr's harrassment.

Here's the hypocrisy with your lot.

You don't care for scams, or economic warfare or blockades - which is what mercs do, grief a group of people or the same people to stop them from importing in a market. I guess you are either that much of a noob in EVE or never done anything that Pew Pew, if you don't know what Mercs do in eVE, which your above claims SCREAM "I never done monopolies in EVE".

Why I think you don't care for economics? Cause you think "DUAL has no PVE, thus, I won't have to grind mobs for days, thus I can farm my materials, so, all I need is magical immunity to bullets" or more aptly "Novaquark, babysit me, whoaaaaa".
 

You also don't want meaningful content or things like Rooks & Kings, or WingspanTT or anyone who farms you Providence folk for the lolzies and that youtube ad revenue. Yeah, WingspanTT, I bet you would love seeing them gone, right? Right??????? He's a profesional troll in EVE, ganking people, then sending them mocking letters for those sweet sweet salty tears.  Rooks & Kings, destroying fleets of ships cause jsut "they can". They didn't even loot the wrecks, just left the wrcks to attract more kills by SALVAGING SHIPS. 

So, you don't want all the interesting parts of EVE. Right. Why you play EVE ????? You clearly don't like its main attraction, so, wwhy are you palying EVE?

More importantly, why are you in this community???? You clearly bought a Sapphire Pledge, so, you must be really into EVE's main allure, so, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT EVE'S FREEDOM????

Furthermore, you don't want bounty hunting. Cause you can't talk tough (or shit), if other people can hire people to grief you, right?????? I have a thick skin and have succumbed to Harden The Frak Up from exposure to EVE Online. I don't care. If they send griefers after me, I don't care, I will have content being delivered to my doorstep, every day, every hour of my playtime. But you? You would ask for "PVE servers" if you could at this point.

Seriously, people, pay mercs to come after me, I don't give a crap for griefing. All it's gonna do is just make me better at avoiding ganks.

 

That's where your hipocrisy shows, your lot wants to talk tough and claim "HTFU", but when the chips are down? You show your spineless self and your thin-skin. You are SUPER SOFT, so toughen up, you are making the rest of EVE's playerbase look like WoW players. 


Bounty Hunters will farm you for money - if they succeed and bait you, like it's done in EVE, you would know if you where ever hired to grief someone specific.

Mercs will be hired to blockade you and your whole corporation/guild/w-e like it's 1774 (good year for privateers, look it up). BLOCKADING IS GRIEFING ON LARGE SCALE.

General banditry will be a thing, cause why not? That's how CIVILISATIONS START. Spartans? Just thugs who took over territory. The Spaniards? Just thugs taking over indigenous people's lands - that's history, not politics - and then taking their gold as well, establishing "new colonies".

 

Bad people, exist, you can't shy away from it, it's up to you to HTFU and going out there to show them who's boss.     


And I can make a prediction, DU's "Providence", will be the Arkzone. A good place for newbros and RPers, but really not secure enough to worth it staying forever.

 

You know, I never interacted directly with Signal Cartel, but you are not good material to promote them. You are way too soft, you probably crumble under pressure as well.


Cheers, god bless, have a happy new year and may you HTFU in 2018 (mainly for your sake, if griefers can "bully" you, I don't even want to IMAGINE what's happening in your head when your boss yells at you directly, in a sound-proof office).

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1 hour ago, Lethys said:

It's really funny to watch this discussion as the "carebears" seem to think that newbros will be killed instantly by a huge numbers of big bad griefers outside the safezone. 

Actually that is exactly what some here are advocating should be possible/allowed/implemented/done. 'This is a multiplayer game so you are supposed to be part of a group and as such be able to deal with the griefers waiting on the border to kill you'

 

If you get away from a gate camp in a battleship in EVE it is either a small or a badly set up camp. A proper camp will destroy you and have help waiting if needed. You will possibly get a few kills but you will die yourself as you will get pinned down, scrammed, bubbled, webbed before you are able to align out and killed from range.

 

In EVE there is no pilots flying around in highsec just popping any newbro as there is no gain in doing that. Ganks are generally well organized and target only what will provide profit after taking the losses from the CONCORD action on the suicide. Access gates to Nullsec are sometimes camped, some more than others.

 

I do agree that in EVE it is certainly beneficial to join a corp as a source of information and education. If you choose you can then go and join fleets or activities or go out solo. I prefer to be out on my own and will be perfectly able to get away form gate camps in a lot of different ships. It's just funny how you and others seem to consider anyone not in agreement with your ideas on this as being carebears which frankly is nonsense.

 

Carebears are the wardeccers who will run and dock up as soon as anything remotely able to engage and kill them shows up. Carebears are the pilots who will not engage unless they are able to drop a cyno and get Capitals or Blops on grid to kill a solo ratter. I have no problem with anyone trying to hunt and kill me when I am on a exploration roam as that is part of the game and certainly the fun. Most griefers also stay far away from NullSec as they would not last very long. We had some members of CODE try and do their thing in Provi recently.. Let's just say they were sent home to a fresh medical clone fairly quickly.

 

 

But this discussion is pretty much pointless as no one will change their mind and frankly it will be a year or so before we get to a point where this becomes relevant anyway.

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27 minutes ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

Lol, you can't be bullied in EVE. Only thin-skinned people from Providence get easily offen-- oh... yeah... that's your lot. EVE"s butt-end of the joke "Providence is safe".

You want Babysitting, NQ is adamant on not babysitting, they sold the game as such on the AMAs of the Kickstarter. But don't let NQ's own interpretation tell you what's the facts, I bet you have a better insight than the developers on what they want for the game. As they said "griefing and scamming won't be punished, harrassment is where we intervene". What's harrassment? Telling people "I will skin your cat alive". That's harrassment. Or GigX, claiming he would cut the Judge's hands' off. Thatr's harrassment.

Here's the hypocrisy with your lot.

You don't care for scams, or economic warfare or blockades - which is what mercs do, grief a group of people or the same people to stop them from importing in a market. I guess you are either that much of a noob in EVE or never done anything that Pew Pew, if you don't know what Mercs do in eVE, which your above claims SCREAM "I never done monopolies in EVE".

Why I think you don't care for economics? Cause you think "DUAL has no PVE, thus, I won't have to grind mobs for days, thus I can farm my materials, so, all I need is magical immunity to bullets" or more aptly "Novaquark, babysit me, whoaaaaa".
 

You also don't want meaningful content or things like Rooks & Kings, or WingspanTT or anyone who farms you Providence folk for the lolzies and that youtube ad revenue. Yeah, WingspanTT, I bet you would love seeing them gone, right? Right??????? He's a profesional troll in EVE, ganking people, then sending them mocking letters for those sweet sweet salty tears.  Rooks & Kings, destroying fleets of ships cause jsut "they can". They didn't even loot the wrecks, just left the wrcks to attract more kills by SALVAGING SHIPS. 

So, you don't want all the interesting parts of EVE. Right. Why you play EVE ????? You clearly don't like its main attraction, so, wwhy are you palying EVE?

More importantly, why are you in this community???? You clearly bought a Sapphire Pledge, so, you must be really into EVE's main allure, so, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT EVE'S FREEDOM????

Furthermore, you don't want bounty hunting. Cause you can't talk tough (or shit), if other people can hire people to grief you, right?????? I have a thick skin and have succumbed to Harden The Frak Up from exposure to EVE Online. I don't care. If they send griefers after me, I don't care, I will have content being delivered to my doorstep, every day, every hour of my playtime. But you? You would ask for "PVE servers" if you could at this point.

Seriously, people, pay mercs to come after me, I don't give a crap for griefing. All it's gonna do is just make me better at avoiding ganks.

 

That's where your hipocrisy shows, your lot wants to talk tough and claim "HTFU", but when the chips are down? You show your spineless self and your thin-skin. You are SUPER SOFT, so toughen up, you are making the rest of EVE's playerbase look like WoW players. 


Bounty Hunters will farm you for money - if they succeed and bait you, like it's done in EVE, you would know if you where ever hired to grief someone specific.

Mercs will be hired to blockade you and your whole corporation/guild/w-e like it's 1774 (good year for privateers, look it up). BLOCKADING IS GRIEFING ON LARGE SCALE.

General banditry will be a thing, cause why not? That's how CIVILISATIONS START. Spartans? Just thugs who took over territory. The Spaniards? Just thugs taking over indigenous people's lands - that's history, not politics - and then taking their gold as well, establishing "new colonies".

 

Bad people, exist, you can't shy away from it, it's up to you to HTFU and going out there to show them who's boss.     


And I can make a prediction, DU's "Providence", will be the Arkzone. A good place for newbros and RPers, but really not secure enough to worth it staying forever.

 

You know, I never interacted directly with Signal Cartel, but you are not good material to promote them. You are way too soft, you probably crumble under pressure as well.


Cheers, god bless, have a happy new year and may you HTFU in 2018 (mainly for your sake, if griefers can "bully" you, I don't even want to IMAGINE what's happening in your head when your boss yells at you directly, in a sound-proof office).

 

 

For once I'll defang each of your BS comments:

 

I never talked of being bullied in EVE, in fact bullying in EVE will get you permabanned by CCP as it is a violation of the TOS. I completely understand why GigX made the commenst he did under the conditions he did it  but agree it is not acceptable. Sadly CCP is very selective with taking such actions as more high profile players have in fact made comments at least as bad in public, at EVE events and remain in place untouched.

 

I never claimed I wanted babystiing, that is in your twisted head. In fact I have on several occasions ben quite clear I see nothing wrong with ganking or griefing as such.

 

The 'mercs' in EVE are wardeccers and blobs who will sit in blinged ships preying on what they can easily kill with no risk . These Merc will run and dock up as soon as anything remotely able to bring an actual fight shows up because they are not there for the fight, they are there for the killboard being green and not take any risks/chances to get that.

 

There is no monopolies in EVE.. I'd challenge you to point one out.

 

I care for economics, in fact you have no clue what that means or does. You just know the word. 

 

WingspanTT is a groups of players with a very sneaky and interesting idea of gameplay and they go to great length to make their way of playing possible. Their tactics and methods I do not always agree with but I've had great fun with them in game. I know quite a few of them and actually have met several players IRL.. R&K are tactical masterminds who operate well beyond your comprehension of what the game can offer which is why you tend to trashtalk their actions when it suits you. Frankly you are starting to show you really have no idea what either WSP or R&K do or how they operate, just that you watched their YT content.

 

Your comments about EVE, what it's main attraction is and why I would be here are just laughable and even more establish you as a wannabe kid with no clue but what YT and Reddit tell you. I very much doubt you even have a serious history in EVE and even if you are active you have _no clue_ about the game outside of pewpew which is just a part of the game when you have the  motivation and original thinking ability to make the game whatever you like. 

 

I have been very clear as well that it is my opinion DU can become the next level on what EVE offers and I will take the good and the bad in that respect. I do not care for 'Mercs' in EVE as they are a waste of time to mess with as they tend to be scared kids who run and hide if you actually bring a fight.

 

And where did I not want bounty hunting? If properly implemented that could be very interesting and lucrative. If it's done like in EVE it would be a joke.

 

You want Mercs after you? Why don't you share your main toon name in EVE, feel free to DM me if you like, and I'll come hunt you myself as I am convinced you have no idea .. Pretty sure though you'd just stay docked up and offline for a while to avoid the consequences of your challenge.

 

HTFU has _nothing_ to do with what you are blabbing about. Again.. no clue

 

'Bounty hunters will farm you for money' - Man you are thick and show you are truly clueless as bounty hunting is not worth anyone's time in EVE and frankly I can find anyone at anytime they are online in EVE within 5-10 minutes.. it's really not hard and again, this shows you are clueless

 

I'm not going into detail, but Proviblox (and my main toon is not actually part of that, he just lives  and operates out of there) knows exactly who is hiring which group to do what.. It's the usual suspect and their tactics are predictable as well as easy to trap and counter. The Provi Rapid Response Fleet will make short work of them once they are done with their antics. Provi Intel knows where they are, when they  are there and where they go. It's part of how some choose to play the game and that is fine as it _is_ part of the game. As said, it's also extremely easy to work around just like wardecs.

 

Blockading is not griefing at all, again here you show you really are clueless and this is also where your misunderstanding of the concepts comes from. To get back to Provi.. A gate camp will only exists for as long as it is tolerated. If required the PRF will deploy and generally the campers will be gone before they are engaged because, again, risk averse.

 

Again, I have no problem with bandits, in  fact I agree they will/must be part of the game. Bandits are not griefers though.

 

Again, you have _No Clue_ of what goes on in Provi, in fact I doubt you understand anything about what goes on in EVE. And you certainly have no idea about Signal and frankly I pity you for apparently needing to keep bringing up things you really do not understand to try and appear tough.. You're really not though, in fact you are quite the opposite.

 

 

 

Oh and my boss does not yell at me because for one, he has no reason to as I am his strongest team leader and he is well aware that yelling at employees that you manage (or anyone for that matter) is a sign of weakness and inability to lead, something you may learn one day.

 

In general, it is quiet obvious you use this forum as a way to vent your frustrations and potentially inability to manage your direct surrounding otherwise. I get that and I guess it is what it is, so we'll have to learn to live with it.

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@blazemonger

 

Still, just a soft-skinned Providence loot pinyata arguementation on your end.

You ask for "no griefers" in DU, but then you say "I never asked for those".

You say "people who got bullied in EVE" then you say "they get banned, so no people are bullied in EVE". Make up your mind man, are you a coward who only blobs or are you an RPer that needs to be reminded he's not actually a 10 Intelligence Capsuleer IRL???

Also, shows you are actually a "tough talker" since you expect me to be the same level of "honorable" as you, to actually fight with "courage" and "nobility", lol, what a lovely chap you are, you RPers always make me laugh with your "honorable combat". You are like the League of Legends squeakers saying "FITE ME 1V1". As for DU, people should actually send people after me. The AvA combat makes this all the more interesting. EVE never scratched that feeling of sneaking around, since, you know, Local Chat - and Hard Knocks are too much of a pain to deal with in Wormholes, seriously ,try and gank one of them, there will be like 3 Proteuses nearby in cloak, it's stupid.

 

WingspanTT are just griefers, all their videos, are griefing and trolling to "rub it" on people they ganked. You want them to not be welcome in DU. Also, wow, you know them IRL and still want them not to be welcome in DU? Wow, that's a new level of knave behavior.  You are just a terrible person all around, not just in EVE, how can you smile and take photos with them on Fanfest and then hate them? Are you suffering from cognitive dissonance, or just "since I can't beat them, I better suck up to them to not be ganked more" ??? Make up your mind already.

RnK gatecamped people with Low-Sec pirate tactics aka, Smartbombing battleships. That's that. They griefed people for fun and "the montage". Plain and simple. Griefed. Most of the times they didn't even loot the gatecamp, just ownzoned people, then jumped out. I guess you don't want them as well, cause they ownzoned Providence for the longest part.. I mean, they ownzoned you guys so much, they had to help you defend Providence later on. You are that bad the whole lot of you RPers.

Also, RnK used a standard Healer/Tank/DPS combo on EVE fleet setups, aka, Guardian and logistic triads acting as Tank AND Healer at the same time. That's something every single other MMO does. RnK didn't invent the proverbial wheel. Stop buying into advertisements and marketing that much, you look like an impressionable 5 yo who thinks Superman is real.  Are RnK cool? Yes, but not cause of their tactics, but their mantra of "the few against the many", whichO, I got to say, they farmed MANY a Providence loot pinyata.

What you call "mercs", are High-Sec pirates that wardec and are terrible at PvP. of any fleet size. You confuse PIRAT with actual mercs, who will infiltrate alliances and corps, pull off heists, or leak what route a Jump Freighter is taking through null-sec and have "random roams" gank that freighter - just cause the perso nwho paid them has a bone to pick with the person who owns the jump freighter. You are TERRIBLE at EVE. You wuill be terrible at DU. god bless, you need a crash course in EVE. 


Same goes for actual bounty hunters in EVE. They are hired to make a person's each and every moment in-game miserable.

You are funny, but in the sad funny way. Like the "this guy plays EVE for 5+ years, and he doesn't know what's a Merc".

 

As for the monopoly, you must be really bad at the economics part of EVE to not know who are the big players on any region. It's literally what Chribba deals in, investments to establish monopolies.
 

I bet you don't know what those "two digit" buy orders are for in each and every big regional market on each and every category, lol.

Cheers. You need far more help than just to HTFU. You need like, that baseline test from Blade Runner 2049 to actually figure out what's wrong with your jungle of a thought process. Backpeddaling is one thing, yours is on a whole new level.

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Twelve pages ... I know this is a controversial topic but the actual discussion part is starting to degrade a bit. How about we take a minute look at the facts and approach this from a more constructive angle.

 

This discussion seems to revolve mostly around freedom vs safety and how to balance the two. Right now DU is planning to operate under the risk vs reward concept where you can choose to live in safety if you wish, or go out and live wildly. Living wildly is going to be incentivized in DU just as it was in eve. This concept is what NQ advertised and what drew 95% of us to this game. The ability to play in a sandbox with the freedom to do what we want, and I don't think that is going to change. If however if you believe otherwise and think the devs have seriously missed their mark then I encourage you to start a poll on the topic, after all this community can speak for itself on what it wants.

 

Now assuming I am correct and this is the kind of game we want to play then perhaps the point to be discussing is how much risk for how much reward? The details of the game are still a mystery. It is quite possible that NQ may implement a "standings/reputation" system to discourage senseless killing or incentivise it by flipping it around and granting bonuses to the best killers. It might be you lose everything on death or maybe you only have to suffer some minor losses and a respawn delay. You might need to take risky trips between safezones or maybe NQ will provide a safer means of doing so.

 

Rather than voicing concerns over what you think DU will become, talk about what you want DU to be. What level of risk vs reward is right for you? What do you think they should or should not allow? How do you suggest they go about accomplishing this? Keep in mind that we want DU to appeal to as many people as possible so try to come up with solutions that includes both extreme ends of the spectrum (at least as much as you can).

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8 hours ago, blazemonger said:

Actually that is exactly what some here are advocating should be possible/allowed/implemented/done. 'This is a multiplayer game so you are supposed to be part of a group and as such be able to deal with the griefers waiting on the border to kill you'

 

If you get away from a gate camp in a battleship in EVE it is either a small or a badly set up camp. A proper camp will destroy you and have help waiting if needed. You will possibly get a few kills but you will die yourself as you will get pinned down, scrammed, bubbled, webbed before you are able to align out and killed from range.

 

In EVE there is no pilots flying around in highsec just popping any newbro as there is no gain in doing that. Ganks are generally well organized and target only what will provide profit after taking the losses from the CONCORD action on the suicide. Access gates to Nullsec are sometimes camped, some more than others.

Hm. So in your first Paragraph you say it would be bad for Du if everyone could be killed outside the safezone.

 

In your third Paragraph you explain why NO ONE is Killing newbros in eve.

 

Mhm, yeah. Makes No sense.

 

It'll be Like in eve: some will be killed because some ppl just like to kill newbros. But most will just ignore them... Like in Eve....

 

Well If you know mechanics (mwd+cloak) you can even evade a gatecamp with a carrier, not sure If they patched it already. I stopped caring for eve a while ago and sold my accs. 

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@CaptainTwerkmotor

You are so deep in your own little dreamworld you really have no idea how silly you are and clueless. You are one of those kids who consumes content from resources like YT and Reddit and thinks that is what a game or dare I say life is like. You continue to show a continued lack of social skills, inability of arguing anything without resorting to name calling and insults and generally display the behaviour of a delusional kid who thinks the world is just a bunch of idiots for not recognizing what you think is the truth. 

 

I tried, for once, to provide actual context to your drivel but unfortunately (and not unexpected) it just results in more of the same. You obviously are unable to read and/or comprehend basic English and read into whatever someone writes what suits you. And as expected, when faced with an actual dare/challenge you just skip over it.

 

You know nothing kid, you're just a disruptive element trying to look tough and cool without realizing how weak you are in your arguments and reasoning.

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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

Hm. So in your first Paragraph you say it would be bad for Du if everyone could be killed outside the safezone.

In your third Paragraph you explain why NO ONE is Killing newbros in eve.

 

It'll be Like in eve: some will be killed because some ppl just like to kill newbros. But most will just ignore them... Like in Eve....

 

You may want to go back and reread the context, then understand what I actually wrote as you seem to have misread and/or misunderstood.

No one goes around killing newbros, in fact the newbro starting/training zones have a rather strict policy against that and it will be enforced quite strongly by CCP.

 

Will there be those who think it's cool to hang around the border of the ARK zone in DU and pop off new players/players leaving the zone? Probably, but IMO that's just sad and frankly senseless behaviour which basically makes you a lowlife.

 

 

Point I am making is that while anyone can do whatever they feel is worth their time in DU (like in EVE) I do not have to accept nor agree with that behaviour just because it can be done. Apparently for some that means I am a carebear and do not understand the intentions or vision of NQ for the game.

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25 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

You may want to go back and reread the context, then understand what I actually wrote as you seem to have misread and/or misunderstood.

No one goes around killing newbros, in fact the newbro starting/training zones have a rather strict policy against that and it will be enforced quite strongly by CCP.

 

Will there be those who think it's cool to hang around the border of the ARK zone in DU and pop off new players/players leaving the zone? Probably, but IMO that's just sad and frankly senseless behaviour which basically makes you a lowlife.

 

 

Point I am making is that while anyone can do whatever they feel is worth their time in DU (like in EVE) I do not have to accept nor agree with that behaviour just because it can be done. Apparently for some that means I am a carebear and do not understand the intentions or vision of NQ for the game.

Yeah and that 'strict policy' is the safezone. 

Still read your paragraphs the same way:

1) everyone will kill newbros in DU

2) noone kills them in eve

 

Yeah it's sad and bad, and many don't agree. So what. I don't agree with many orgs either. Then just do smth about it. That's what ppl do in eve and it works fine.

 

And for the carebear thing: You may want to go back and reread the context, then understand what I actually wrote as you seem to have misread and/or misunderstood.

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You guys are good company but please "tone down the snarl rhetoric": It's a form of fallacy away from increasing profitable communication, though perhaps forums and drama are both peas in a pod at this early stage?!

 

1. The social form of argument is the type: Two Explorers at the ends of the world in Antarctica: They are safe and snug in their tent/igloo, and one of them says: "To me Bach is the supreme Classical music... just poetic, bordering on the religious." The other explorer, colleague, demurs: "I disagree, as everyone knows, Beethoven reaches the highest heights and transcends everyone else." So the argument goes, and each person throws in more and more technical points and argument techniques and so by the end their argument is bordering on ridiculous dissertation-like lengths!! What's going on here is displacement: There's no outlet or problem to solve or enemy to defeat, so the explorers create a substitute and attack each other. Let's understand when the argument is not an argument but a social exchange. That said:-

2. From NQ pov, they probably want to ensure popularity is peak with the game's appeal. The biggest danger is an empty virtual world. I don't think we'll be short of things to do, those who are clearly far-sighted, ahead of the curve here already discussing the game! But others are not so discerning.

3. The building voxel and lua form of gameplay are "sandbox". This is a huge element of object manipulation, collection, design, creation, collaboration and purposeful function and use at a scale we've likely not seen. This I think will be far more popular than the other side of gameplay that personally appeals to me more, the virtual world side. So I think given 2 and 3 then NQ will seek ways to maximize the safety of players engaged in this type of sandbox gameplay and the PERSISTENCE of stored time/money in developing their personal creations and contributions (aka a form of self-expression in effect).

4. Add to the above SOCIAL interactions of creations eg buildings for people to live or simulate such eg space-stations, trading such is social activity as well as time/money exchange of value in different creation forms. Hence any sniff of PvP by such potential people will put them off. So PvP has to be handled carefully at the beginning.

5. the other side is the simulation gameplay such as in EVE that drives a virtual world through complex systems and player behaviours eg I don't make stuff: I go and take out others and take their creations: Very rewarding gameplay and using my brains and skill is the reason so! Th economy ties in the rate of exchange of value of the different incentives and costs that people choose through their behaviour. This is where emergent player-driven gameplay and story-creation post-hoc as per real life is developed: The Invisible Hand etc. What is the point of all these creations if there is not a cycle of creation, maintenance and destruction?! So these as per the sandbox advocates are equally relevant imo. If we want our creations to "come alive" then this is necessary to animate them.

 

So, my impression is that NQ will start off DU with the building/sandbox side of things and probably come to a realization that this aspect is very popular and successful as well as a lot of work in maintaining it too. All the while they should be testing and developing combat systems to make that fun then considering how to integrate it via gradations into the game community already thriving in the sandbox game while this simulation layer is slowly formed and connected.

 

And even taking one example of that clearly demonstrates that it's worth adding: Huge Fleet Battles are going to be incredible gameplay so long as their role ties in with the virtual world (and oc they're technically possible). I think that's a step-up in entertainment from a film fleet battle, so definitely progressive for a simple argument to make.

 

The value in the game:-

 

* money invested

* time invested

* economic exchange: potential and persistence

* interactivity space and scope

* social network organization complexity (pro-social = higher)

* story generation quality and quantity

* connection to (rw) culture: Creativity

 

ps: apologies if my own tone is "dictatorial"; I tend to keep my mouth shut in rl, but when I speak it's from conviction and over-enthusiasm so no less imperfect either.

 

pps: "wolf vs sheep" might be better "Lion Pride vs Water Buffalo Herd"?

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8 minutes ago, MookMcMook said:

So, my impression is that NQ will start off DU with the building/sandbox side of things and probably come to a realisation that this aspect is very popular and successful as well as a lot of work in maintaining it too. All the while they should be testing and developing combat systems to make that fun then considering how to integrate it via gradations into the game community already thriving in the sandbox game while this simulation layer is slowly formed and connected.

You got the wrong impression.

J.C. has said *somewhere* that they can't implement the combat after the other systems like building, resource gathering and trade. His comment made it seem that in his opinion adding combat after everything else would be too disruptive to an already established game culture. 

 

Avatar vs Avatar combat was not a stretch goal only Construct vs Construct was a stretch goal.

 

I share his opinion. Just imagine how disruptive it would be to an established player base if you suddenly "activate" PvP and everything that comes with it.

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@blazemonger

 

only a few days ago you were calling me a ''specialist privileged minority'' now you call me a clueless majority... you are unstable man.  Like, really really off your rocker. 

 

You provided no context.

 

Like with your waste of money of a stream deck, you have no valid arguements.

 

You are just farm. Both in EVE and IRL. You are the impressionable biomass flashy colors on lootboxes are meant to attract.

 

And like any farm, you want a fence around you.

 

There is a fenced farm, it's the arkzone. Live in it. 

 

P.S. : Technically, it's a ranch not a farm, but it serves the same purpose.

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1 hour ago, Falstaf said:

You got the wrong impression.

J.C. has said *somewhere* that they can't implement the combat after the other systems like building, resource gathering and trade. His comment made it seem that in his opinion adding combat after everything else would be too disruptive to an already established game culture. 

 

Avatar vs Avatar combat was not a stretch goal only Construct vs Construct was a stretch goal.

 

I share his opinion. Just imagine how disruptive it would be to an established player base if you suddenly "activate" PvP and everything that comes with it.

No, I know that's the current plan, but my impression is we'll see if/when to what degree they implement combat that affects the building game.

 

Given how much fun gameplay the building and logistics will entail and the potential burst in popularity, is the basis I'm suggesting.

 

I expect combat will be in the game somewhere, and will be tested and iterated too. But I'd be surprised if we do end up as per the current FFA plan outside of small bubbles. I guess it will stretch out longer: We'll have:-

 

* 100% B : 0% C

* 90% B : 10% C

* 85% B : 15 C

* ......

etc, Gameplay { B = Building, C = Combat }

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5 hours ago, Lethys said:

Yeah and that 'strict policy' is the safezone. 

Still read your paragraphs the same way:

1) everyone will kill newbros in DU

2) noone kills them in eve

1/ not what I said nor implied

2/ Not for funzies as in "Let's camp the newbro training systems and blab them just because we can"

 

I never said that it will be common practice in DU that newbros get killed as soon as they leave the safezone. I have said that I would consider that deplorable and anti-social behaviour which serves no purpose but to kill someone just because you can. It would be like standing outside someone's house and shoot them in the head as they open the door just because you have a gun. I am also convinced there are and will be those who would consider the above perfectly acceptable in game.

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16 hours ago, blazemonger said:

In EVE there is no pilots flying around in highsec just popping any newbro as there is no gain in doing that. Ganks are generally well organized and target only what will provide profit after taking the losses from the CONCORD action on the suicide. Access gates to Nullsec are sometimes camped, some more than others

 

1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

2/ Not for funzies as in "Let's camp the newbro training systems and blab them just because we can

Those two are different.

 

I'm sure NQ will come up with Well balanced mechanics so builders have their place as you obviously need them. 

 

For everything else, you need a team and an org and do that stuff yourself (protect your borders, hunt pirates, Patrik area,...). I don't want to see antisocial loners doing the same stuff as big orgs. And no I'm Not saying they shouldn't be able to do anything, as i like to solo too sonetimes. But asking for full blown Player protection everywhere (which is basically what some here want as "MMO argument doesn't count") is just silly to me. 

 

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

 

Silly little boy.. Such a big mouth, yet nothing to show for it..

Oh, wow, you went from League of Legends squeaker "fite me 1v1" to calling people kids and doing the mirror tactic, like a 5 year old.

Here's an idea young chap, do the silent treatment? I heard my 8 year old nephew does the silent treatment when he is angry at other kids on the playground. It's a common tactic amongst 8 year olds  - or manchildrend who buy Stream Decks and then try to convince people it's "worth for DU", lolololol. You are no Streamer or Youtuber and got an item meant for STREAMERS by buying the marketing plyo of "it's usable for anyone!".

Next stop, buy a flamethrower. I heard it's excellent for pest control and for drying clothes. Naaaaah, don't get a RAID cannister, why get a pesticide when you can get a military grade flamethrower for 10000% times of the cannister's price. right? And if push coems to shove, it can light up cigarette(s) and barbecues, It's a totally needed house utensil.

The above statement is sarcasm, I say this cause I feel you are susceptible enough and so easily manipulated you may actually go out and buy a flamethrower to use it as a cigarette lighter, same way you got an Elgato Stream Deck buying into that "it's an all purpose device, not just a STREAM DECK".

You belong to the drone people 1984 tried to warn us about. An uneducated, easily controlled mass of the population, that despises "privileged minorities" (like educated people), who is easily susceptible to marketing and thinks he can spam his opinion until it's reality - like you spamming "Core Units may not need fuel" while everyoen and their dog pointed out all the videos NQ showed of Fuel Tanks and Fuel items for ships, but you had to double-down and say "those are not final implementations, this may change". 

You just called me the other day an "privileged specialist who doesnt' care for the wee meme farmer" - which I don't, it's not bad, I am selfish and it's my choice to be. But now, you call me "clueless majority". Decide, what am I? You need to be told how to think drone???

You spoke earlier of "people who got bullied in EVE and now want to do that in DU" then said "no people are bullied in EVE, cause CCP bans bullies". You can't have the cake and eat it whole. Decide drone, what is it? You don't got a will of your own? Is your serious case of blackwhite that much of a problem you can't tell your own opinions apart and debate your own words? Are you "fake newsing" your own words now?


I could continue, but I come to a sudden realisation. You, do not, matter - as neither do I for the most part. NovaQuark has a clear view of the game's developement, they spoken loud and clear on how they will treat griefing - they won't intervene, it's your fault if you get baited and / or fly solo - but they will intervene if people start throwing IRL threats around for physical harm.

if you have a problem with griefing, stay in the Ark-Ranch with the rest of the bears.

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It’s really difficult to have any actual productive conversation with this name calling and assumptions made on both sides.  I am not a carebear because I think offensive and defensive measures need to be balanced.  I am not someone who wants to play alone because I want people who start the game to be able to have defensive tools that will allow them to get in and start enjoying themselves before making a decision on what organization they might want to join.

 

   Also, EVE does have a reputation for being inhospitable to new players, and not because it’s complicated.  My outsider understanding of EVE is of people starting playing it and not knowing anything about it getting ganked constantly which made it not fun.  There are plenty of other similar experiences in game reviews. Other complicated games have ways of being fun while you learn the intricacies.  This may not be a fair representation of how the game is, but it is the reputation as I have seen it.

 

My previous point was that there is a very limited playerbase for games that require you to do research and study if you want to survive to the point it becomes fun, and if you don’t have the time to figure out what a game is about before you either have to trust an organization you know nothing about to help you survive or last through a gankfest until you learn how to survive on your own that the player base will be severely limited.

 

    These issues can be addressed by adding defensive systems and giving new players some time to get in and learn the game.  How often people get attacked at random will naturally be dependant on the cost of offensive and defensive systems.  A very simplistic and extreme example is that if it takes 1000 bullets to wear down a shield, and the shield takes 1 unit of resource to power and the bullets take 1 unit of resource to make then it takes about 1000 times the resources to attack as it does to defend.  This makes attackers have to decide whether it’s worth it to attack or not.  I do not think the system should be this lopsided, but use an extreme example to make the point clear.

 

Systems like these don’t take anyone’s freedom away.  They can be built to let the game have it’s PVP danger and excitement without it devolving into a game where the amount of fun you have is directly proportional to the size of your gang.

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