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Tactician

My biggest worry about this game

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so been following this game for a short time looks really good but my biggest worry is the sandbox mmorpg aspect, build anywhere, player driven, uh have yu not taken a look at eve online? CCP did the same thing gave players 100% freedom to run there games universe and what did everyone turn into? trolls, griefers and muggers, same damn thing will happen here sorry to say.

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Eve has probably the most successful community in an mmo to date. What are you taking about? 

 

 In eve there is an unprecedented amount of player cooperation to achieve group goals.  nothing in eve is made by just one person, it is a collaboration of players against other players.

 

What you call griefing is people going about thier business, thier business might be to attack your ship.

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20 hours ago, Tactician said:

so been following this game for a short time looks really good but my biggest worry is the sandbox mmorpg aspect, build anywhere, player driven, uh have yu not taken a look at eve online? CCP did the same thing gave players 100% freedom to run there games universe and what did everyone turn into? trolls, griefers and muggers, same damn thing will happen here sorry to say.

That's why there are safezones

That's why you can conquer territory and use rdms to prevent ppl from building there.

That's why you can build  protection bubbles on that tile to prevent attacks.

That's why you can (and should) play with friends.

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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

That's why there are safezones

That's why you can conquer territory and use rdms to prevent ppl from building there.

That's why you can build  protection bubbles on that tile to prevent attacks.

That's why you can (and should) play with friends.

Precisely.

 

But more importantly here, NQ isn't a bunch of dummies, they know games like this are troll/griefer bait. To prevent this from being an anarchy murder-hobbo garbage fest, they are going to have mechanics in-place that make it kinda hard to ruin the game for others.

 

I mean the motto is "rebuilding civilization together". I think the protection options for builds and tiles are going to be pretty solid. That doesn't mean the game will be safe that's for sure, but there will be plenty to dissuade people from griefing in the dictionary/traditional sense of the word.

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AS Lethys and IndiVestor pointed out already, this is a team game. Socialise, fraternise and be the best possible friend and the worst possible enemy.

Anyone who sees EVE and thinks "full of griefers", are people who never socialised in EVE, cause in EVE if you play solo, it's you against the entire server.

The REAL problem with EVE, is the Killmail mentality of "look how many Orcas and Skiffs I've blown up". NQ just needs to get rid of those things for players. A killboard will only encourage bad PvP,.

EVE's problem is not the griefers, it's the fact only 1 out of 5 massive engagements in fleet ops is actually awesome. 4 out of 5 is you beating on smaller forces or a Rorrqual. And the Killmails are the catalyst of said problem.

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20 hours ago, Tactician said:

so been following this game for a short time looks really good but my biggest worry is the sandbox mmorpg aspect, build anywhere, player driven, uh have yu not taken a look at eve online? 

 

Not sure what happened to you, but it must have been bad.. EVE has probably the most awesome and supportive community I know both in the game and outside as well.. If DU will be able to even come close it will be quite the achievement.

 

.It's why we have HTFU..

 

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3 minutes ago, wizardoftrash said:

Precisely.

 

But more importantly here, NQ isn't a bunch of dummies, they know games like this are troll/griefer bait. To prevent this from being an anarchy murder-hobbo garbage fest, they are going to have mechanics in-place that make it kinda hard to ruin the game for others.

 

I mean the motto is "rebuilding civilization together". I think the protection options for builds and tiles are going to be pretty solid. That doesn't mean the game will be safe that's for sure, but there will be plenty to dissuade people from griefing in the dictionary/traditional sense of the word.

Protection Bubbles, Shields and RDMS I always refer as "Safer Zones" . It's definitely safer in there than outside, but not safe enough to feel relaxed forever. As NQ said, it's about fuel that keeps the shields going and the such.

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@blazemonger

 

 

That's the spirit really. EVE teaches you to adapt and overcome. I was once sad I lost my first Gila... after 6 months I was losing like 5 fully stacked Stratioses a week in WH-ganks (too many Typhoons waiting in warp distance of Orcas Q_Q ) and I would not even bat an eyelash. It's about Hardening the F*** Up.

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The problem is literally built into the lore. 

 

From the official lore bible https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2016/11/16/official-lore-bible/

 

"One of the key functions of the ship once arrived, is to deploy a 20km radius safe zone area where colonist would be free from any form of aggression from the outside, or… from themselves. It was indeed decided that the potentially violent nature of mankind under stressful situations should be mitigated with appropriate supervision. Within the safe zone, Aphelia is in charge of maintaining order, and providing support and information to colonists."

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Trolls, griefers and tears/salt miners are generally just lone players with nothing better to do.. Best remedy is to approach them lighthearted or ignore them.. The latter will in fact 'hurt' them more as hey are after your response/comments in local.. Ignore them and they go away quickly..

 

Griefers are best handled by beating  them at their own game.. When you run event sites in Highsec in EVE and someone comes in to steal the loot, lock them up and shoot them with fireworks.. Several things can and will happen, including them mistaken it for aggression and shoot back, only to get concorded (great show when that happens, usually reverse tears..) or they may get he joke and play along 'OK OK.. I give up here is the loot' ..  Both have happened to me and it is just in good fun mostly..

 

Trolls will always be around and are best just left alone and ignored.. all they want is attention so don't give it to them..

 

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10 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Trolls, griefers and tears/salt miners are generally just lone players with nothing better to do.. Best remedy is to approach them lighthearted or ignore them.. The latter will in fact 'hurt' them more as hey are after your response/comments in local.. Ignore them and they go away quickly..

 

Griefers are best handled by beating  them at their own game.. When you run event sites in Highsec in EVE and someone comes in to steal the loot, lock them up and shoot them with fireworks.. Several things can and will happen, including them mistaken it for aggression and shoot back, only to get concorded (great show when that happens, usually reverse tears..) or they may get he joke and play along 'OK OK.. I give up here is the loot' ..  Both have happened to me and it is just in good fun mostly..

 

Trolls will always be around and are best just left alone and ignored.. all they want is attention so don't give it to them..

 

True story, I fell for those firecrackers once >.>

Although, once a guy turned safety off and tried to steal my loot on an Astero... and I was running Beam / Warden drones on a Stratios.

Best and most unexpected kill I ever gotten. That moment lord Bob decides "time to get all hits Perfect!"

The Astero pilot and I are still good buddies. xD

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o7

Eve bittervet here.

I don't think DU will turn into Eve. I'm sure NQ is aware of what could happen, and they'll put in appropriate tools to stop it. Now..that doesn't mean that some people (*cough goons *cough) won't try to grief. But players should also have tools to make them regret it ;)

 

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Anyone who sees EVE and thinks "full of griefers", are people who never socialised in EVE,

Well, isn't this far from the truth. I personally found more grief when socializing than when i was solo. The first time i joined a nice little corp of about 20-30 members. The first week in the corp was fine. We did some mining and even had a little pvp frigate tournament, but it was a little corp aka an easy target, so we got war-decced for at least 2 months straight from multiple other corps.

 

Its pretty bad when trying to make friends completely prevents you from playing the game. So yea, i think eve is full of griefers. It even has corps full of them.

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Well, politics is official part of this game. Choose wisely.  If you are hans solo, who knows, maybe after few weeks flying straight into abyss you will find some habitable place to live on. But without access to the market...

 

Here is the thing @Tactician, there is a big percentage of people playing MMO games that moan about the game being too crowded. It's probably, you are one of those and not getting a concept of MMO at all. You better find some single player game and avoid servers as you wasting slots for those who would like to play.

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4 hours ago, Xenoform101 said:

Well, isn't this far from the truth. I personally found more grief when socializing than when i was solo. The first time i joined a nice little corp of about 20-30 members. The first week in the corp was fine. We did some mining and even had a little pvp frigate tournament, but it was a little corp aka an easy target, so we got war-decced for at least 2 months straight from multiple other corps.

 

Its pretty bad when trying to make friends completely prevents you from playing the game. So yea, i think eve is full of griefers. It even has corps full of them.

Those mass war decs don't prevent you from playing eve. You prevent yourself from Playing because you fear PvP, death or losing your ship. That mindset you have is exactly the problem why people think eve is full of griefers - it's not. The problem are risk averse ppl like you who let others decide for them ("they" prevent....) instead of doing smth about it and organize a fleet

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Ahh trolls, there everywhere are they not?

 

In the McDonalds playpens, there were the ball-pen bullies. There was the "lunchline liberator" in the sixth grade, and yes that was what we called him back in the day... You got the team quarterback that "knows it all" but secretly knows nothing yet, somehow, still has all the friends. And now in my older years, there's the common criminal, be it the guy stealing ladies purses or the neighbor kid trespassing through my backyard after school since "it's a shortcut and you don't have a fence".

 

Did I mention trolls are everywhere? Growing up, I had parents, teachers, my fists, (insert improvised weapon here), and landlords at my disposal to deal with those who thought they could pick me up by the collar. Did I use them... ehhh, no... 

 

Point is, you can either stick up for yourself, try and talk yourself out of the situation or hide behind a friend. Pick your battles and know where you can go and where you should avoid. Since this is a video game, if the harassment is consistent then feel free to improvise. Use a low-end ship with dummy cargo, or better yet, leave a few special explosive prizes hidden away and let the ship be captured. Sooner or later they'll get tired of the zero-sum game and move onto a new target.

 

Did I mention that trolls are everywhere, even in real life? I did? Guess we'll just have to get used to it then?

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10 hours ago, Xenoform101 said:

Well, isn't this far from the truth. I personally found more grief when socializing than when i was solo. The first time i joined a nice little corp of about 20-30 members. The first week in the corp was fine. We did some mining and even had a little pvp frigate tournament, but it was a little corp aka an easy target, so we got war-decced for at least 2 months straight from multiple other corps.

 

Its pretty bad when trying to make friends completely prevents you from playing the game. So yea, i think eve is full of griefers. It even has corps full of them.

This is a fundamental and common error amongst MMO players.

 

PVP is NOT "griefing" !

 

PVP in any area of a game that allows it is playing the game as intended.

 

An example of "griefing" is when a player goes AFK in a doorway of a building in a non-PVP area, and exploits collision-detection mechanisms to inconvenience other players.

 

A slightly more fuzzy example is when someone breaks into your base and just deletes all of your items, instead of carrying them away (i.e. stealing them). That would exploiting the ability to make things "vanish from the game world" with the simple click of a button, rather than via weapons damage or physical relocation (i.e. theft).

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11 hours ago, GhostProtocol said:

o7

Eve bittervet here.

I don't think DU will turn into Eve. I'm sure NQ is aware of what could happen, and they'll put in appropriate tools to stop it. Now..that doesn't mean that some people (*cough goons *cough) won't try to grief. But players should also have tools to make them regret it ;)

 

Yeah, indeed, the fact DU is way more intricate than EVE, cause of the Avatar first approach.

You are a person, not a spaceship in DU :P

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11 hours ago, Xenoform101 said:

Well, isn't this far from the truth. I personally found more grief when socializing than when i was solo. The first time i joined a nice little corp of about 20-30 members. The first week in the corp was fine. We did some mining and even had a little pvp frigate tournament, but it was a little corp aka an easy target, so we got war-decced for at least 2 months straight from multiple other corps.

 

Its pretty bad when trying to make friends completely prevents you from playing the game. So yea, i think eve is full of griefers. It even has corps full of them.

That's called "Imperialism", it's part of the in-game politics.

In real life, the term "Third World CountrY" came to mean "people who do no affilaite with either the USA or the USSR" during the cold war.

You were the equivalent of a third world country for not taking sides. In fact, taking sides with a null-sec empire would bring you singioficant wealth, due to the wealth found in null-sec and the protection the alliance provides.

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11 hours ago, Xenoform101 said:

Well, isn't this far from the truth. I personally found more grief when socializing than when i was solo. The first time i joined a nice little corp of about 20-30 members. The first week in the corp was fine. We did some mining and even had a little pvp frigate tournament, but it was a little corp aka an easy target, so we got war-decced for at least 2 months straight from multiple other corps.

 

While I would agree the war-dec mechanic in EVE is seriously broken and in general war-dec corporations are full of scurred carebears who are actually not interested in fights, just in kills (big difference!) and will dock up as soon as you bring anything that would remotely be able to kill them (and so it's really not worth the effort of trying). Simple solution is to get out of Highsec. Highsec is a scary and unsafe place in EVE.

 

Go and join a NullSec or Wormhole corp, you will find it's much more fun and the sense of community and friendship _much_ stronger. Oh.. that would be IMO obviously.. 

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I have a feeling this will have a totally different feeling then Eve online. The "build it up" game-play should see to that since unlike Eve we will have to build everything. Also the various forms of protection should help mitigate "standard" greifers. 

 

We will only really have to worry about people who go out of their way, and since I assume those will be few and far between that the community will probably deal with them.

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Once you built your ship and go out there I think the game will be very much like EVE but with a more first person feel and look. The social and political structures are kind of the same even though it feels to me the average age of DU backers/players is lower than that in EVE where it actually is relatively high for a 'game'.

 

If there is anything that would concern me somewhat it would be that a lot of (initial) players will be too young to appreciate the concepts and intricacies the game will offer and this can easily be misinterpreted as griefing or trolling. In EVE most corporate and alliance leadership is very mature and has a very 'seasoned' view of the game. DU does not yet have this and the risk is that too many 'wannabee leaders' come in and start being adolescents.

 

The fact that many organisations are seen to be wanting to expand up and outwards without a solid and responsible core member-group or leadership is a prologue to problems. There are exceptions but I've seen and heard some thing that make me cringe.. Once we get underway I'd expect some big trees to crumble and fall as they are top heavy.

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13 hours ago, Lethys said:

Those mass war decs don't prevent you from playing eve. You prevent yourself from Playing because you fear PvP, death or losing your ship. That mindset you have is exactly the problem why people think eve is full of griefers - it's not. The problem are risk averse ppl like you who let others decide for them ("they" prevent....) instead of doing smth about it and organize a fleet

I never said we did nothing about it, we did on several occasions did try to fight back, we did join an alliance. But when they seem to always seem to have 4 well fitted ships to every one of your ships, not to mention their neutral logistics waiting in the back, its hard enough to leave a station let alone win a fight. By the end i barely even had enough isk to buy a frigate, at that point its no longer pvp, its griefing.

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7 minutes ago, Xenoform101 said:

I never said we did nothing about it, we did on several occasions did try to fight back, we did join an alliance. But when they seem to always seem to have 4 well fitted ships to every one of your ships, not to mention their neutral logistics waiting in the back, its hard enough to leave a station let alone win a fight. By the end i barely even had enough isk to buy a frigate, at that point its no longer pvp, its griefing.

Well you certainly can't go in there with 5 ppl. Or 10. You just need more - or just escape to the other side and regroup there. That's the easiest thing to do in eve - and yes you can even do that in a BS. I fled gatecamps with my scorpion in low, you just need to know how to do stuff.

l lived in a c6, alone, for more than a year,  then for more than 7years in a c5.  You just need to know game mechanics and dig deep - hiding, accusing and feeling powerless doesn't get you anywhere. Looking forward, socializing, learning game mechanics do

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Regardless, if the game sticks too closely to the EVE formula, it will get the same reputation or worse, that of being an EVE clone with a gimmick. The only people that would be interested in it will be EVE players, which already have EVE. When looking at WOW and its clones, the clones almost always fail.

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