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My biggest worry about this game

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even without scoreboards or full loot or any other gain:

5nClv.jpg

 

Wild West Online had its first test recently, as far as I know they had a FFA PVP. 

after the test they ditched it as their bounty concept could not stop griefers and team killers:

http://massivelyop.com/2017/12/06/wild-west-online-seems-to-be-dropping-ffa-pvp-in-favor-of-faction-based-pvp/

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2 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

The issue when adding KDR or Killboards like in EVE, is you encourage PvP in the whole game. That involves attacking miners, for no other reason than "stat padding".

EVE has an official means of measuring how good a pilot is, and it's in the form of killmarks. A ship gets a "notch" on its hull as a decoration, for every kill it makes, on a base 10 system. That's an actually cool way of keeping track of how many kills a ship has, since those ships have a reputation and are sold for a lot of in-game money. And no, you can't just "grind" the killmarks by farming cheap ships, no enthusiast who will pay the equivalent of 1000 USD of in-game money for a 200 killmark ship, will be dumb enough to not check if the person selling it is an actually known PvPer. If you got a 200 killmark ship and you are a nobody, it screams "scam". And no, Killmarks do not add any stat boost to the ship, it's purely a cosmetic thing you can only earn through PvP.

The innate problem with "KDR" or any stat based "proof of not sucking" does not take into account Economic Warfare. Tell me how do you gage how good a trader is on his endeavors and how good a smuggler is at ruining a cartel's monopoly? It can't, hence "if you play trader, you play the game wrong" or "if you play miner, you are just farm" as many "High Isk Efficiency" apes in EVE would have you believe.

The moment KDR is added into the game, the game becomes all about "kill anything on sight, or you suck". Most toxic communities revolve around games with KDR. And if DU adds KDR, kiss the Medic, Engineer and all other support roles goodbye.

The current day 20-30 years old player, is a person who was raised in League of Cancer. I played Support role in League of Clamydia for 4 years, going Diamond along the way. I have seen the mentality of ADCs who "I play only Carry, cause support is for [Insert Homophobic Slur here] ". And the same goes down in EVE Online with its Killboard. NOBODY wants to play logistics (healer). They are like the most pampered players on a whole coalition, since they are so rare. 

Do we really want DU to have the same problem with only "top guns" and "super soldiers" and "I only fly Battleships, kthnxbai" people?

 

Just saying. There are far better ways to measure people's worth than a Scoreboard.

Oh thanks for bringing that up, I'm aware of it but it serves to prove the point about social systems, incentives and economically driven behaviours. Kill boards of course support anti-social behaviour.

 

But I was thinking more in terms of SOCIAL DIMENSION measures/metrics etc. We want a selective "evolutionary system" to mimic selecting higher socially respected players who then can be admitted to PvP gameplay, thus opening the door on positive criteria as opposed to it's opposite the anti-social criteria: Gankers, Griefers who get their payload too easily without social selection beforehand.

 

It's just a theoretical postulation to this problem to explore, not promulgating it as a worked solution!

 

I say this with seriousness: I want to PvP a lot if possible, but I also want it to be meaningful pvp within the logic of the game world itself and to the benefit of the community: Like you said PvP leads to "Safety In Numbers" effects as well as atmosphere of great danger and excitement in lawless areas and so can be immensely positive contribution. And in a simulation system it's mandatory as an economy sink.

 

It falls within the ambit of Agency: Trade = Incredible scope of individual and group agency. Building via Voxels similarly. Combat again such powerful agency of interaction to bestow. DU will not be short for individual agency.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Forodrim said:

even without scoreboards or full loot or any other gain:

5nClv.jpg

 

Wild West Online had its first test recently, as far as I know they had a FFA PVP. 

after the test they ditched it as their bounty concept could not stop griefers and team killers:

http://massivelyop.com/2017/12/06/wild-west-online-seems-to-be-dropping-ffa-pvp-in-favor-of-faction-based-pvp/

There's no question DU will be served best by starting with ZERO PvP and allowing builders to flourish first. Then working on graduated systems of PvP, not trying to control PvP itself (that cannot work) but putting up barriers and gates to the players who then gain access to PvP. We are afterall "rebuilding civilization" first of all.

 

Bear in mind, those who "pvp the market" will similarly be motivated to dominate this system as well and as game-wide effecting for better or for worse. Voxel building too, it's a running joke that "flying penises in the skies" is the first thing players might try to build in game worlds.

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PVP should serve the purpose to get interesting and enjoyable engagements and fights. If it turns into a feeder for stats and killboards it overshoots and becomes a nuisance where people do not engage for the fights but for the stats on the KB. It creates risk-averse play styles where the fun is basically completely overshadowed by the need to show a green killboard.

 

IMO there should also be a mechanic to hold those who attack others without reason accountable. Not sure who this should work but if DU goes the 'freely engage anything without reason' route it will IMO not end well. Being a bully, a thief or a pirate is fine, but there needs to be consequences if you get caught. I fear though that this will be a game mechanic that will not get addressed just because it's to difficult to get right. The result will probably be 'every man for himself' and with the general tendency that is already developing on several levels to make it all about combat and conquest I have little hope for the community component to actually have accountability built in..

 

 

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idk.

 

I think a skill progression system for all types (builder/PvP/scout/merchant etc) should be the only mechanic to reward those perusing those paths. Anything built on that, or along side that, may throw the balance off.

 

Sometimes a simple system is the most playable.

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11 hours ago, CoreVamore said:

idk.

 

I think a skill progression system for all types (builder/PvP/scout/merchant etc) should be the only mechanic to reward those perusing those paths. Anything built on that, or along side that, may throw the balance off.

 

Sometimes a simple system is the most playable.

The evidence says otherwise: If the above, then what other mmorpgs have done is zoned pvp and pve, as interestingly DU is *currently* describing eg 20km Ark radius.  EVE has a finer gradation with it's .SEC systems.

 

That or the evidence demonstrates the "anonymous internet deek-wad theory" (some great cartoons depicting this along with summary causes).

 

Actually, it's fairly simple if you apply simple problem solving: "If a lack of consequences (this is the major input disinhibitor on behaviour) leads to anti-social behaviour from drive-by internet users" is the cause of the problem.

 

Then as is well known, PREVENTING is far superior to TREATING as a cure to the problem... as said in-game mechanics treating the problem tend to fail.

 

We come back to agency and the right to earn it leading to value systems. That can't be coded like skill-progression can be. Again money and time in economy also can be harnessed obviously. As can game design focusing on the experience model of the player and again opening up Social Agency options which merge with the META- of the community itself is my preferred suggestion though not the only option and not the simplest either. In fact, I feel there are strong positive reasons for attempting this which have knock-on effects to the game's overall "spell it casts on players".  If the player expects a sort of Rust-like environment of FFA PvP then this becomes the norm expectation of values in the community becoming a positive attractor to MORE of these types of players !! And hence the opposite to people who like building and who would be very socially positive.

 

Fortunately DU is going to be a vast Virtual World System, so there will be space enough for all types, eventually if a simpler prevention method is preferred as more obviously resolving the negatives as opposed to amplifying the positives... eg then it's a question of Star Gates and Barriers To Trade etc.

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I don't like the argument of "Space is Big and the distance will protect you".  Please keep in mind that I am talking mainly about bases. First, space is cold, and if this game is going to be realistic, the 3K background of space will reveal the position of most objects.

 

Second, while there is a lot of space, I don't think a lot of it will be useful space, People need resources to trade and stuff and they will probably be out-competed by big mining orga... Whats that? Thats why you join an org? 

 

Thied, if DU gets a lot of players on launch, the sheer number of players in the arkzone will cause to chaos. If the game gets a million players on launch, which 0.01% of people play at launch, there will be 10,000 people at the arkzone, which leads to another problem. Server stress. I imagine the servers around the Arkzone will be extra powerful but can this be handled?

 

Finally, there is the problem of time. From my experiance from Minecraft, you WILL be found eventually: No place is safe. So the solution it seems would be active defences like turrets. 

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26 minutes ago, 0something0 said:

I don't like the argument of "Space is Big and the distance will protect you".  Please keep in mind that I am talking mainly about bases. First, space is cold, and if this game is going to be realistic, the 3K background of space will reveal the position of most objects.

 

Second, while there is a lot of space, I don't think a lot of it will be useful space, People need resources to trade and stuff and they will probably be out-competed by big mining orga... Whats that? Thats why you join an org? 

 

Thied, if DU gets a lot of players on launch, the sheer number of players in the arkzone will cause to chaos. If the game gets a million players on launch, which 0.01% of people play at launch, there will be 10,000 people at the arkzone, which leads to another problem. Server stress. I imagine the servers around the Arkzone will be extra powerful but can this be handled?

 

Finally, there is the problem of time. From my experiance from Minecraft, you WILL be found eventually: No place is safe. So the solution it seems would be active defences like turrets. 

1) Law of Inverse Square. The further you are from an object, the wider and weaker the wavelengthe becomes. It's like saying "

"Why buy an 4K screen, my 720p monitor can define details just the same".

No, it can't ,same goes for an object on the "3 kelvin" background of space. You need a lot more resolution -  or exposure - to pick up an object in space. If not resolution, then you need processing power to "enhance" the image with precision. All of which means you can hide in the background of 3 Kelivin, as long a you maintain your distance far away from their "resolution range". 

Math and geometry, it's truth.

2)
Congratulations, you found out space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggling big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space.

You also found out how Cultural Darwinism works - collective evolution, power in numbers.

 

3)

You do understand it's not "one server" and that the whole ... you know... thing about DU, it's that the server netcode they use is making the whole thing work, right?

They literally use Actor Model and asynchromous updates between adjacent partitions of the server so they can maintain a standard number of player-count within a given space as per server node. 

That means they can scale the game's population in one area to great proportions. That 10000 people you speak of, is no problem with one server blade for WoW. Let alone 10 Cloud Servers hosting 1000 people each, all communicating with each other for updates, while the people o nthem are on the same geographical location in-game.

It's like you don't even know what's DU's main selling point.

 

4) Sure, but Minecraft is not in space. Space, can be really, REALLY dark. Go 100 AUs from the star, you are practically invisible unless your scan resolution can pick up signatures.

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1 hour ago, 0something0 said:

I don't like the argument of "Space is Big and the distance will protect you".  Please keep in mind that I am talking mainly about bases. First, space is cold, and if this game is going to be realistic, the 3K background of space will reveal the position of most objects.

 

Second, while there is a lot of space, I don't think a lot of it will be useful space, People need resources to trade and stuff and they will probably be out-competed by big mining orga... Whats that? Thats why you join an org? 

 

Thied, if DU gets a lot of players on launch, the sheer number of players in the arkzone will cause to chaos. If the game gets a million players on launch, which 0.01% of people play at launch, there will be 10,000 people at the arkzone, which leads to another problem. Server stress. I imagine the servers around the Arkzone will be extra powerful but can this be handled?

 

Finally, there is the problem of time. From my experiance from Minecraft, you WILL be found eventually: No place is safe. So the solution it seems would be active defences like turrets. 

Space as objective space. Space as in possible options of design to shape different game spaces for different players' subjective preferences: I've read JC point out he wants a virtual universe, and I suspect universe will include a lot more of universal/all than just a sci-fi game at some stage ?

 

Though again, I really DIG the sci-fi theme of Dual Universe and the idea of simulating a world of humans recolonizing and ending up doing what we tend to do: Creating 4X outcomes :-P

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*Builds the Great Anti-Salt Wall*

 

1) 

Quote

The Space Shuttle's much weaker main engines could be detected past the orbit of Pluto. The Space Shuttle's manoeuvering thrusters could be seen as far as the asteroid belt. And even a puny ship using ion drive to thrust at a measly 1/1000 of a g could be spotted at one astronomical unit.

As of 2013, the Voyager 1 space probe is about 18 billion kilometers away from Terra and its radio signal is a pathetic 20 watts (or about as dim as the light bulb in your refrigerator). But as faint as it is, the Green Bank telescope can pick it out from the background noise in one second flat.

This is with current off-the-shelf technology. Presumably future technology would be better.

2)in an any given environment, people settle because there is a useful resource there. A big driver of conflict in general is due to resources. 

 

3) Okay, so the server player distribution is not based on in game location(e.g. every 100km^3 is in diffrent server) But that doesn't mean it won't be a clusterf*** at launch.

 

4) If you want to go out to 100 AUs in a reasonable amount of time, its going to require tech that we probably won't have at launch and we don't know about the resource distribution in game but I suspect most of it will be mined from planets because game logic. Besides, encouraging isolation as a means of survival goes against the whole "this is a social game" concept.

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2 minutes ago, 0something0 said:

3) Okay, so the server player distribution is not based on in game location(e.g. every 100km^3 is in diffrent server) But that doesn't mean it won't be a clusterf*** at launch.

 

4) If you want to go out to 100 AUs in a reasonable amount of time, its going to require tech that we probably won't have at launch and we don't know about the resource distribution in game but I suspect most of it will be mined from planets because game logic. Besides, encouraging isolation as a means of survival goes against the whole "this is a social game" concept.

on point 3 it means there is likely to be an architectural clusterfeck compared to pre-DU systems

 

On point 4 you can easily isolate en-mass. There is nothing stopping a group of say 100+ people from building a 'hidden' outpost somewhere so you get isolation plus social game. They are not mutually exclusive.

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I don't really get the point of this. 

 

In Eve it works for YEARS now. People are perfectly safe in null space and whs. 

 

People need to change their views a bit imho. You can't just do everything alone or solo everywhere. And small orgs won't be able to do the same things as large orgs. But If you're part of a larger force, I really don't see a problem in building stuff somewhere very well protected. Watch alliance chat, watch alliance news, pay attention, be Safe. 

 

People will form huge pacts to protect each other (as they do in eve). They will be bored at some point (as in eve) and look for fights. 

 

There may be some individuals who want to grief. Do smth about it then. Code is only so successful because noone cares about highsec. So noone stops them. That's emergent gameplay though

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2 hours ago, CaptainTwerkmotor said:

3)

You do understand it's not "one server" and that the whole ... you know... thing about DU, it's that the server netcode they use is making the whole thing work, right?

 

It's one of the most misunderstood things about being 'Single Shard'. Frankly the term is a nice marketing catchphrase but it means very little in relation to how the cluster for DU will work.  Will everyone be on the same server? No, of course not. Will a specific location always be on the same server in the cluster? Not as I understand it as the servers are using a very dynamic system of scaling up or down as far as space goes depending on how many players are in a certain location at any given time..

 

A big thing though is that from what I understand objects further away will not be fully rendered and you will have fairly limited information available of these objects unless you get closer. This may actually cause an issue when using sniping or long distance observation or weapons. This certainly becomes more of a thing when it is dynamic and the distance at which the effect kicks in is related to the number of objects in a certain area (as in, when you are in a densely populated area you can't snipe to the same distance as compared to a quiet area).

 

It certainly will require NQ to be more clear on how this will affect actual gameplay but it is not something that is of immediate concern and I'd guess this does not really come into play until late in Alpha2.

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5 minutes ago, Lethys said:

In Eve it works for YEARS now. People are perfectly safe in null space and whs. 

 

In EVE NullSec and Wormhole space are actually generally much more safe due to the population being much less dense and the rules of engagement are very simple unlike HighSec. While I live in a very highly populated area of NullSec I only have to travel a few systems and not run into anyone while roaming across many solar systems. Travelling from one Nullsec region to another is safest through Wormhole space and we have extensive databases on routes and connections as they change.

 

While most players in EVE do not get any further than (and are perfectly happy with) joining a corp and engaging in the usual PewPew the game has a huge amount of content and 'things to do' which really were never originally intended or designed to be used that way.. It's what keeps EVE at the forefront of MMO games. I certainly intend to find the 'backroutes' and strange things I have no doubt will exist in DU..

 

If there is to be a game able to take what's great about EVE and bring it to the next I do believe it is DU.

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@blazemonger

 

A good analogy I heard being used is "LOD based updates" on what DU does, it's not accurate, but it conveys the nature, I personally prefer the tyerm "Radiant updates" as their updateing of adjacent partitions of the server works more like a radiant spread.

As for the sniping part, this can be easily rectified with the same way you can snipe in games like COD or (more realistically) Planetside 2. If I snipe at someone at 500 meters, they are but a tiny dot I can't tell any details on them, but if I use my x12 scope, I can now see an outline, still not "good quality" on the LOD, but better. That's because reducing the FOV on a given resolution, means the engine has to "enhance" the detail. That's how LOD tech works in vague strokes, from Planetside 2, to EVE Online. I don't really see the problem there when it comes to the LOD. As for the observation part, yes, we should always keep in mind of the delay. I bet like in other games, expetise wil lbe found there on those mechanics. Knowing that "this image I see is 10 seconds old" means you can relay better info that way. Of course,  unless we got Alpha Proper (24/7) I can't tell for certain how long the delayed updates can be.

From what I read on JC's interview with the CAF team (C Actor Framework) they have a solid understanding on what they do. Essentially, the mainframe (server) keeps track of anything and everyone, the cloud machines just act as extra "filters" for all the information fed to the mainframe (which also maens you have an equal latency to everyone, since your local hub of AWS deals in Gibabits per second with the mainframe whhile you deal in (most caes) megabits per second). What happens o nanother system should not update on your NOW, essentailly. 

For all intents and purposes, it is a Single Shard, we all deal with the same central mainframe which is the "server", the AWS machines you connect are just filters for the mainframe and extra processing to handle all users equally, something that CCP should hae figured out ages ago and done away with Time Dilation, but that's another topic altogether. I think it's just that people iamgine a "server room" with an NQ logo on it at their Paris offices when they want to log into the game. AWS has killed the notion of "centralised server blades" long time now :P

JC Baillie actually put it well on the DevBlog about the server tech, in great detail.

https://devblog.dualthegame.com/2014/09/26/a-single-shard-continuous-universe-one-world-no-boundaries/#more-334

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10 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

In EVE NullSec and Wormhole space are actually generally much more safe due to the population being much less dense and the rules of engagement are very simple unlike HighSec.

I can't agree more. High-sec is full of dense people indeed :P

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50 minutes ago, Lethys said:

There may be some individuals who want to grief.

I think this is where we disagree and why this is such a difficult topic. 

I'm more pessimistic, I don't think there will be "some", I think there will be quite a bit of those. And those players will have a huge impact. I would bet there will be players sitting outside the Ark Safezone hunting for new Players who want to explore the game world. Not because the new Players will have valuable resources, just because they can. This can reduce the number of players who will subscribe to the game after such an experience. 

Also there will be players who simply love to destroy stuff. A Hermit Player spent a week or more to built something fancy? Just blow it up and laugh about it. And DU will have those hermit builders, unlike Eve. If you tell them to HTFU you will again reduce the playerbase to the usual Eve Player. 

 

Those are things that can have a huge impact on the number of players in DU and a game like DU will need quite a playerbase. 

 

But most of this is pretty much theory, I guess we will have to see how thing turn out. 

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10 minutes ago, Forodrim said:

I think this is where we disagree and why this is such a difficult topic. 

I'm more pessimistic, I don't think there will be "some", I think there will be quite a bit of those. And those players will have a huge impact. I would bet there will be players sitting outside the Ark Safezone hunting for new Players who want to explore the game world. Not because the new Players will have valuable resources, just because they can. This can reduce the number of players who will subscribe to the game after such an experience. 

Also there will be players who simply love to destroy stuff. A Hermit Player spent a week or more to built something fancy? Just blow it up and laugh about it. And DU will have those hermit builders, unlike Eve. If you tell them to HTFU you will again reduce the playerbase to the usual Eve Player. 

 

Those are things that can have a huge impact on the number of players in DU and a game like DU will need quite a playerbase. 

 

But most of this is pretty much theory, I guess we will have to see how thing turn out. 

No it won't.  

EVE for example has a bunch of ads and recruitement officers located on the starting zones of each large player faction and on the main trade hub, Jita 4-4. These people recruit, others on the organisation are there to train the newbros into how to play the game, how to not get rekt and how to avoid ganks. 

If you don't play the game as a singleplayer, you will notice "X org is recruiting".. You join said org and then they tell you "X day we will move to the HQ in nullsec". That's pretty much how it will go down in DU.

 

DU is an MMO, not a singleplayer, it's a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game. The "Hermit player" can go flak themselves, they are not "rebuilding civilisation" by being antisocial. Rome was not built in a day and it sure as shit wasn't built by one guy in the desert.

Also, in Null-sec, roaming gangs into enemy territories - what you refer to as griefers - are met by force. What force? The local army / militia which a player can be enrolled, trained and provided with ships (depending on the type of SRP involved of course) and their job is to "Go out and pummel some faces". That in DU, is the same as being in an army on an alliance and being provided armor + weapons for your time spent as militia - which is a great deal, if you like PvP and being paid or having no costs for it. You log in, have a chat, and if enemies are spotted, you head out and repell them. Militia is a dedicated duty in EVE, like Mining is and Industry / hauling is. And no militia is not the same as roaming with a gang into enemy territory, that's piracy and some people don't do piracy (attackign freighters) and only stick to "eligible targets" like enemy infrastructure and mining operations. 

I don't know what kind of dystopia you imagine in EVE's nullsec or wormholes, but it's definitely not that.

 

DU's arkzones will be a great place, prolly with "Noveans" who work out of the Arkzone and acting as the local militia to repell a-holes from attacking people around the Arkzone. Maybe that "Novean" Police force is funded by multiple organisations and is impartial on its duties. Probably it willbe owned by one org, which will act like the Arkzone mafia and selling "protection", but hey, what do I know, amirite? Not to add to your pessimism, but that's the only reason for someone to protect the "turf" around the Arkzone.

Who knows. I personally would not want to live in the Arkzone, cause it's literally a prison. I like my peaceful coexistence to be something I choose, not enforced into.

Cheers.

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1 hour ago, 0something0 said:

Imagine when you go outside, you are met by a bunches of thugs with guns. You then pull out your gun, call your militia friends, and shoot them.  This happens regularly. Is this really the DU we want to see?

Yes. That's called "immersion". You can't be the hero without villains.

If you like a game without PvP, go play Elder Scrolls Online. Nobody can attack you in the wilds. Or WoW, they remvoed the PvP in the world altogether, in the most PvP focused expansion they go for.

The in-game world will be shaped by the promise of security and purpose in the game. People are tired of games who tell them "You got a purpose, go grind like a slave for 12 hours to get +1 Gearscore".

People play a game when they feel they have an impact in that game. And if EVE can scratch that with just its spaceships, then I think DU can scratch that with thingsl ike Militias.

Everyone wants ot be the hero after all and everyone wants to be the "bad boy". Those two "everyones" will clash.

Who wins? Arms dealers.

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Well I think there's only so much the game can do to prevent this behavior without being too overprotective. It's almost impossible to completely prevent gankers and griefers without getting rid of pvp altogether, and people will always try and prey on newer players and the borders of safe zones. The fairly large size of the safe area may help a little but at a certain point it falls on the community to figure out ways to deal with it without messing with mechanics. Maybe the big orgs blacklist frequent trolls or griefers from using their marketplaces. Maybe someone starts up an org that helps new players get some experience out of the safe zone with a bit more safety in numbers. People will still want to play the villain role, but we may be able to make it at least difficult for them.

 

Am I wrong in thinking that the main problem people have is with newer players and the starting planet? If so it becomes something that would be better to handle on a local level, most people probably don't want to be safe all the time but the limited area around the start is ripe for ganking. Worrying about that is completely legitimate and fair but maybe system level fixes aren't the best solution. As inconsistent as players handling it may be, it might make the whole game more interesting.

 

I don't think either side is wrong, just trying to suggest that there may be decent ways to compromise.

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2 hours ago, Forodrim said:

I think this is where we disagree and why this is such a difficult topic. 

I'm more pessimistic, I don't think there will be "some", I think there will be quite a bit of those. And those players will have a huge impact. I would bet there will be players sitting outside the Ark Safezone hunting for new Players who want to explore the game world. Not because the new Players will have valuable resources, just because they can. This can reduce the number of players who will subscribe to the game after such an experience. 

Also there will be players who simply love to destroy stuff. A Hermit Player spent a week or more to built something fancy? Just blow it up and laugh about it. And DU will have those hermit builders, unlike Eve. If you tell them to HTFU you will again reduce the playerbase to the usual Eve Player. 

 

Those are things that can have a huge impact on the number of players in DU and a game like DU will need quite a playerbase. 

 

But most of this is pretty much theory, I guess we will have to see how thing turn out. 

    I agree with your fears.  Despite what some people say, EVE does have that reputation, and it's why a lot of people don't even give it a try.  If this game turns into a new version of EVE, then I don't think it will do very well.  It would be splitting the player base of people willing to try a game that has a reputation for being almost impossible for new players to start without being bullied, or griefed.  My solution to these problems would simply be to increase the power of defensive systems over offensive systems.  If you have the right balance of defensive tools/offensive tools it will take more than someone being bored to grief you.  If you give defensive tools earlier than offensive tools, that helps too.  This balance  can have a major effect on the gameplay and it isn't something that we know any actual information on yet. 

 

    I am waiting for some discussion by NQ about the weapons systems and how they will be applied before I make up my mind.  I am extremely excited and hopeful, but I can very well see the possibility of the game community making the game simply not fun for new players.

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1 minute ago, Felonu said:

I am waiting for some discussion by NQ about the weapons systems and how they will be applied before I make up my mind. 

I'm waiting for the Beta (or when ever combat will be in the game), then we can see how it will work in practice. Also the way scanning and solar system travel will work will be crucial. However the Eve-Crowd should keep two things in mind.

 

First, the playfield is vastly different. There is no way of claiming a whole system or even a planet in DU, this will change a lot compared to Eve. The Playfield is also much, much larger. A system is tiny in Eve compared to DU which will have the whole planet surface. 

 

Second, the crafting/ building playstyle of DU will attract a different kind of players then Eve. And those players are needed to make the game a lasting success. 

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19 minutes ago, Felonu said:

    I agree with your fears.  Despite what some people say, EVE does have that reputation, and it's why a lot of people don't even give it a try.  If this game turns into a new version of EVE, then I don't think it will do very well.  It would be splitting the player base of people willing to try a game that has a reputation for being almost impossible for new players to start without being bullied, or griefed.  My solution to these problems would simply be to increase the power of defensive systems over offensive systems.  If you have the right balance of defensive tools/offensive tools it will take more than someone being bored to grief you.  If you give defensive tools earlier than offensive tools, that helps too.  This balance  can have a major effect on the gameplay and it isn't something that we know any actual information on yet. 

 

    I am waiting for some discussion by NQ about the weapons systems and how they will be applied before I make up my mind.  I am extremely excited and hopeful, but I can very well see the possibility of the game community making the game simply not fun for new players.

False, people don't play EVE cause it's overly complicated (to put it very mildy). It's a daunting game visually, cause of all the things you have to learn before you get to enjoy it. That won't change in DU, aside fro mthe need to be good at multi-tasking for PvP.

Like it or not, THIS is from their new website.

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As this quote says "watch your back".

Ganking will take place. Accept it.

I'd add "get together with other people to watch your back" as well, but you are not one to socialise, I can tell already, you don't want to have to rely on others.

If you have a problem with other people, don't play MMOs. Simple as that.

You won't stop me from ruining a faction's marketplace by driving up prices and ruining their economy, you won't stop me for certain from running scams in the in-game markets and you won't stop me from profiting off of others' hauling operations. But hey, the economic ganking and griefing doesn't bother you, you just want to be immune from bullets, right?

What a joke, all of you "tough talkers" who don't got the spine to embrace the game's freedom.

I will be expecting your emotionally charged response on how me scamming and profiting by runing enemy factions' economies is "bad for the game" and how I don't think of the children. Even if NQ made it clear the game is not marketed to children.

Cheers.

P.S. : New Year's Resolution suggestion for you all who want to play the game singleplayer and have not to worry about being attacked  :

 

 Harden the Frak Up.

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