Transported Goods Safety

[Shockeray]

I am personally of the opinion that they should be able to be stolen and players should have to come up with their own means of managing who are reliable and trustworthy transporters.

[Zamarus]

I definetally think it would be unhealthy to have safety nets when it comes to this, if you have valuable cargo then you either transport it yourself or find someone you can trust to do it for you

[Aesras]

The simple fact is that there is no hardcore quest system like in normal MMO, a "quest" is formed via a contract system, for example I post a job on a local job board that I will trade 100 iron for 5 gold, you accept the job or "quest" so to speak, and then lets also say that you have to come to my location to trade the iron for gold, it is totally okay for someone to steal your iron while you are coming to my location, there is going to be no safety net for such job systems so the risk is definitely there which I think will make the game more immersive, atleast thats what I understand.

[Kurock]

Did someone say "player run insurance"?

[Haunty]

Could just make it so the transporter has to pay a deposit that you set. On completion they get the deposit back plus the pay for the job. Not much different than commodities trading where you buy for full price and hopefully sell for higher price.

[Zamarus]

Could just make it so the transporter has to pay a deposit that you set. On completion they get the deposit back plus the pay for the job. Not much different than commodities trading where you buy for full price and hopefully sell for higher price.

It is a cool idea but that means the transporter takes all the risk and not their employer. For example i could send my goods and get the initial deposit followed by using it as insurance money when the transporter i hired gets robbed along the way. The transporter would not only have paid the deposit from his own pockets but also lost the goods and now i as employer did not really get that hurt but the transporter got royally screwed.

[Haunty]

It is a cool idea but that means the transporter takes all the risk and not their employer. For example i could send my goods and get the initial deposit followed by using it as insurance money when the transporter i hired gets robbed along the way. The transporter would not only have paid the deposit from his own pockets but also lost the goods and now i as employer did not really get that hurt but the transporter got royally screwed.

 

As it should be, otherwise no one would make delivery jobs. The employer still has some risk because they lost the item and it wasn't delivered, even though they got compensated for it.

[Shockeray]

It is a cool idea but that means the transporter takes all the risk and not their employer. For example i could send my goods and get the initial deposit followed by using it as insurance money when the transporter i hired gets robbed along the way. The transporter would not only have paid the deposit from his own pockets but also lost the goods and now i as employer did not really get that hurt but the transporter got royally screwed.

 You could always change the percentages that you give until a acceptable balance is found. Bartering is always something that can make the universe richer.

[Robert_Brightstar]

The transporter just needs to gather or hire a security crew (who get a portion of the proceeds) when the goods are delivered.  This could make for interesting engagements and job opportunities.

[Anaximander]

No worries, EVE Online's contract system has you covered. TL; DR : the hauler puts up a collateral fee for the cargo, that the person issued the cotnract evaluated his cargo as.

If I wanted to move 10 billions worth of minerals to my factory, I would take into account :

1) the price of my minerals

2) the time I would invest on them if I was to refine or manufacture through them.

3) how much I would actually make in the market.

Then I set up a collateral of 20 billions on my 10 billion cargo. If the cargo hauler does not deliver the cargo within a certain window, I get the collateral the hauler put up to undertake the contract. If the Hauler delivers the cargo to the cargo container I designated for him to put the cargo in, he gets paid as the contract is fulfilled. 

And that's how it's done. A simple mechanism of contracts. Contracts in EVE == player quests. Some may ask you to bring the body of a particular person to them to be rewarded. Other contracts may be for minerals, while others use contracts to sell stuff.

Yes, this can be used to scam noobs that can't tell what contract is a scam, but hey, ce la vie.

So yeah, cargo should be stealable, but if you put up collateral for it when issueing the contract, you are covered. It's the hauler's problem to make sure they deliver the cargo.

[AccuNut]

Trustworthy transporters will quickly earn a reputation, so even if they lose a shipment now and then, they should be making enough money to absorb the loss of their deposit.

I do think, however that it should be the transporter, not the employer, who sets the deposit amount. If the prospective employer isn't comfortable with the amount suggested, he can hire someone else.

 

It could work like this: if I (the employer) want the transporter to pay 100% of the shipment cost as a deposit, I pay the standard shipping fee. But if I choose their 110% or 125% deposit options, the cost for me to ship that item goes up accordingly, if the item is delivered successfully.

[ostris]

No worries, EVE Online's contract system has you covered. TL; DR : the hauler puts up a collateral fee for the cargo, that the person issued the cotnract evaluated his cargo as.

 

If I wanted to move 10 billions worth of minerals to my factory, I would take into account :

 

1) the price of my minerals

 

2) the time I would invest on them if I was to refine or manufacture through them.

 

3) how much I would actually make in the market.

 

Then I set up a collateral of 20 billions on my 10 billion cargo. If the cargo hauler does not deliver the cargo within a certain window, I get the collateral the hauler put up to undertake the contract. If the Hauler delivers the cargo to the cargo container I designated for him to put the cargo in, he gets paid as the contract is fulfilled. 

 

And that's how it's done. A simple mechanism of contracts. Contracts in EVE == player quests. Some may ask you to bring the body of a particular person to them to be rewarded. Other contracts may be for minerals, while others use contracts to sell stuff.

 

Yes, this can be used to scam noobs that can't tell what contract is a scam, but hey, ce la vie.

 

So yeah, cargo should be stealable, but if you put up collateral for it when issueing the contract, you are covered. It's the hauler's problem to make sure they deliver the cargo.

 

Literally typed this before refreshing and seeing you beat me to it.

[yamamushi]

It is a cool idea but that means the transporter takes all the risk and not their employer. For example i could send my goods and get the initial deposit followed by using it as insurance money when the transporter i hired gets robbed along the way. The transporter would not only have paid the deposit from his own pockets but also lost the goods and now i as employer did not really get that hurt but the transporter got royally screwed.

You have just described how I made my billions of ISK Eve Online.

[Anaximander]

You have just described how I made my billions of ISK Eve Online.

Ah, the good old switch-a-roo. People still fall for it.

[Shockeray]

Ah, the good old switch-a-roo. People still fall for it.

It's the wild west out there if you aren't sticking to militarily defended trade routes. (DU, not EVE)

[Lethys]

It is a cool idea but that means the transporter takes all the risk and not their employer. For example i could send my goods and get the initial deposit followed by using it as insurance money when the transporter i hired gets robbed along the way. The transporter would not only have paid the deposit from his own pockets but also lost the goods and now i as employer did not really get that hurt but the transporter got royally screwed.

Nearly. You forgot to mention that it's you who robs the transporter ofc to get your goods back. Then it's a win-win. For you at least

[AccuNut]

Of course, this would lead to you being blacklisted by that transporter, and all his buddies, and possibly his org too.

Good luck getting anyone to transport goods for you again.

[Anaximander]

Of course, this would lead to you being blacklisted by that transporter, and all his buddies, and possibly his org too.

Good luck getting anyone to transport goods for you again.

You underestimate how senseless crime can be... I mean, pirates attack everything. I mean... who could have seen the ambush coming.

 

 

Also, alt toons == the ones that are used to scam people.

 

What? The hauling group will issue a blacklist on everyone on the server?

[Zamarus]

Nearly. You forgot to mention that it's you who robs the transporter ofc to get your goods back. Then it's a win-win. For you at least

I can already see the set ups where someone gets hired to transport something and then the employers friends rob the cargo incognito, the employer gets the deposit AND the cargo back hehe

[Archonious]

Did someone say "player run insurance"?

Let's imagine, you are working (with no faking players) in this industry. I pay you *** cash to get insurance so risk would be on your side. Then (or before) I hire somebody who I know and tell him to "steal" goods. Player use one of 3 charcters (no main) or maybe DEMO. How will you investigate? Pay me for my loses? All information you have, that I lost my cargo and nickname of player (who is out of contact).

 

So you pay me by insurance (in our example, you do not fake players).

As soon I receive insurance pay, I take back my cargo (it could be stored in special location you don't know).

In the end, I win. Of cource it is pointless if we speak about small contract. 

 

This is the game, copying most thing from the life = make sure most of things will fail.

____________________________

 

Now about question. What you want in game? Player-made quests for delivery (I'm not speaking about "I know this guy") or very rare opportunity to steal from small player? If somebody think that most players will pay for "Steal my goods", that is more than stupid (if that will happens in game, this mean community is too stupid to pay for so huge risk). In this case transporter need to buy goods from me, then deliver good to point X and then sell it to another player. Possible, but it is called "Re-sell" not delivery.

 

In my opinion, there must be special cargo which can be opened by owner (+2nd trader) only and has beacon (owner can see it) to show current location. This bring to the game "Delivery Job", as many dreamed about. I don't tell it is perfect system, but idea of message is "What you want to bring in game, not what looks more realistic". Game is not real life, not even close. And it will never be!

 

P.S: Don't know about possible profit for pirates, but I don't care much about pirates.

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[Lethys]

You see Archonius, you just killed an entire branch of the game. If such a container would exist and no other player could open it then everyone would use that and pirates are screwed. Cause as far as we know salvaging is not yet adressed - no profit at all.

 

P.s.: one simple solution to this: drop chance

[Archonious]

You see Archonius, you just killed an entire branch of the game. If such a container would exist and no other player could open it then everyone would use that and pirates are screwed. Cause as far as we know salvaging is not yet adressed - no profit at all.

 

P.s.: one simple solution to this: drop chance

As I said, it is not perfect. I didn't think about this side of "stealing", but everything can be changed. If to think about the problem well. 

 

I choosed option with "No cureer steal, but possible pirating". 

 

Option when nobody will use "Delivery quests" is making pirating in this direction impossible as well =) Nothing to steal, if nobody use "delivery quest" system =)

 

Thanks,

Archonious

[Kurosawa]

No worries, EVE Online's contract system has you covered. TL; DR : the hauler puts up a collateral fee for the cargo, that the person issued the cotnract evaluated his cargo as.

 

If I wanted to move 10 billions worth of minerals to my factory, I would take into account :

 

1) the price of my minerals

 

2) the time I would invest on them if I was to refine or manufacture through them.

 

3) how much I would actually make in the market.

 

Then I set up a collateral of 20 billions on my 10 billion cargo. If the cargo hauler does not deliver the cargo within a certain window, I get the collateral the hauler put up to undertake the contract. If the Hauler delivers the cargo to the cargo container I designated for him to put the cargo in, he gets paid as the contract is fulfilled. 

 

And that's how it's done. A simple mechanism of contracts. Contracts in EVE == player quests. Some may ask you to bring the body of a particular person to them to be rewarded. Other contracts may be for minerals, while others use contracts to sell stuff.

 

Yes, this can be used to scam noobs that can't tell what contract is a scam, but hey, ce la vie.

 

So yeah, cargo should be stealable, but if you put up collateral for it when issueing the contract, you are covered. It's the hauler's problem to make sure they deliver the cargo.

 

Given your example, what would you consider and adequate payout for the transporter when you take in to account that he must insure the cargo for you, hire mercs, protect his own assets and knowingly jump in to what is highly likely be a trap.

 

Regarding alts i hope there will be a way to see how characters tie together, to prevent ass hat behavior. I mean if you a afraid to fly a pirate flag maybe you should try mining or something like that.

[Anaximander]

Given your example, what would you consider and adequate payout for the transporter when you take in to account that he must insure the cargo for you, hire mercs, protect his own assets and knowingly jump in to what is highly likely be a trap.

 

Regarding alts i hope there will be a way to see how characters tie together, to prevent ass hat behavior. I mean if you a afraid to fly a pirate flag maybe you should try mining or something like that.

You are askign me to theorise. I can't set up a hauler's payout when I don't know where the cargo goes to and what the cargo's value is as of rarity. Usually ,collateral is higher than the payout.

 

Also, you don't actually have to hire guards if you are an in-empire space (your safe space where your alliance rules). So, it's all about risk and reward. Sometimes, if the risk is high enough, you don't take it.

 

In EVE, hauler corporations have a certain cliente (people with a lot of industry going) and they haul for them, cause they are a sure income. They are the guys who make mad banks. Being a freelance hauelr is not actually that much profitable. Except if you like fetch quests. Then it's very entertaining.

[Begogian]

You see Archonius, you just killed an entire branch of the game. If such a container would exist and no other player could open it then everyone would use that and pirates are screwed. Cause as far as we know salvaging is not yet adressed - no profit at all.

 

P.s.: one simple solution to this: drop chance

 

Exactly. Something like this can't be a thing and as the game progresses, I think trustworthy and un-trustworthy orgs will emerge who all claim to be able to safely transport your cargo from A to B. With this in mind, I believe there should be no insurance, no prepaying, and no support. You hire FedEx or UPS (American shipping companies) trusting them to deliver your package safely and properly. They have been around for so long that everyone knows you won't run into trouble with them and they are safe. This will transfer in game because it is up to the transporter to use resources to protect his/her vessels.

 

If it costs you 100 Quanta to protect your ship and make it a safe transport, then charge 150 Quanta so you make money. Thats how it should be, the risk should be with the transporter because you are hiring them to do your job, if they fail, they don't get money for it.