Jump to content

Break the mega factory meta


Recommended Posts

The mega factory meta is what prevents the dream of a specialized economy and cooperative civilization building 

 

To break it the scalability of factory industry needs to be nerfed.. scripting is fun but it just further amplifies industry scalability to riddiculous meta levels

 

Limit based on char (like max active units per char) would be circumvented by alts.

 

Human time is the only thing that will work

 

Make industry units break down and require repair, maintenance and care.. require human grinding play time to keep the factory units operating 

 

Mining,logistics and trade are all grindy and hard to scale

 

Why is industry allowed to scale to such riddiculous levels that it create tychoons and monopolies that have largely passive income.. it actually kills the cooperative specialization that is supposedly the goal of this game.

 

As long as the single human mega factory meta exists it is the only thing worth doing.. it needs to not just be nerfed.. but killed.. otherwise there will never civ building and specialization 

Link to post
Share on other sites

haha.  Trust me they killed the mega factory already.  I don't know anyone who actually makes 100% of everything.

 

Yes T1-2 items are fairly easy to make and sure you can get a mega factory out of those items if you mine up and sell a few mega nodes but T3 and up starts getting expensive for players.

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, TheMasterArchitect said:

haha.  Trust me they killed the mega factory already.  I don't know anyone who actually makes 100% of everything.

 

Yes T1-2 items are fairly easy to make and sure you can get a mega factory out of those items if you mine up and sell a few mega nodes but T3 and up starts getting expensive for players.

if that were true there would be a market for components, parts, alloys etc

 

And there isnt

 

High level items are made by factories that take ore input and produce finished products, otherwise we would see the intermediary parts being bought and sold.. which they are not

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2021 at 9:48 AM, Vasten said:

Make industry units break down and require repair, maintenance and care.. require human grinding play time to keep the factory units operating 

I'm wondering what people think of this? Would having to repair factory bits be a fun thing? or just feel grindy?

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, NQ-Naerais said:

I'm wondering what people think of this? Would having to repair factory bits be a fun thing? or just feel grindy?

Imo its just grindy tedium.

I think we had a trial run at that with the bugs where industry would randomly get hung up, or stuck at somewhere between starting and finishing and needed to be rebooted. To me it just ended up being mindless, probably because it didnt really drive any decisions - "have you tried turning it on and off?" :P

 

For brainstorming, say it's a thing, some possible ways of doing it

- Jams - similar to industry bugs in early beta

- Degradation - the repair tool isn't particularly engaging, but could maybe have it impact speed/efficiency?

- Fuel - essentially just more mining/adding more ore to the base cost of everything, but could maybe change manufacturing speed/efficiency based on fuel type?

 

For me it'd be best if it presented meaningful decisions. To do that it'd have to interact with the system, eg. say there's a maintenance schedule - could make it run less efficiently if it hasn't been upkept - but the cost to repair vs the efficiency loss would need to matter so there was a decision to make about whether you repaired now, or whether it was more efficient to do later. My concern is that this would be a super finicky balance driven by a lot of environmental factors that could easily break any meaningful decisions that need to be made, plus inflation potentially making that cost meaningless again over time.


I think if the safe zone get's reduced (is the beta boundary is permanent now?), the recurring loop would be that other players essentially steal your industry. I guess this comes with territory PvP now that static constructs have to be on land with a TCU. When that happens, you'd have to rebuild a factory elsewhere giving you a fresh take at industrializing again (which is where i get most of the fun from). It's a soft reset and a consequence of a decision made about how many resources you were willing to risk, knowing that someone else would likely try to steal it or destroy then sell it on the market - the larger the factory the bigger that risk. I can't think of a good substitute for this kind of gameplay loop.

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, NQ-Naerais said:

I'm wondering what people think of this? Would having to repair factory bits be a fun thing? or just feel grindy?

Too grindy, that is a survival game thing not mmorpg. It would be better if we could upgrade industry units instead of deleting them, re-placing the new unit, re-linking it, etc. Also making adjustments to them like more efficiency at the cost of speed, more speed at the cost of efficiency, more of both at the cost of power when we have power mechanics.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a bad idea.

Changing anything in industry require player presence. It couldn't be done via VR. 

Usually you have several types of running industry

- big mega factories, producing stuff with high demand / consumption. Their owners are taking care of them and are present there to solve any issues.

- specialized small shops producing high level stuff with low demand. They could run without human interaction / maintenance for weeks.   

- small factories of people trying to build industries or people who don't know calculate costs.

- small specialized factories doing things for owners, not for market, like fuel factory on mining outpost.

Idea of adding another requirement of human presence and interaction kill the second type of industries. It will actually help big mega factories.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd rather see a core power system or some bonus to run industry off of Alioth to encourage hauling, which encourages pvp (and ever other part of the game).  If your running a mega factory your keeping the mining crowd busy otherwise what's the point... make a million engines for yourself?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2021 at 9:48 AM, Vasten said:

The mega factory meta is what prevents the dream of a specialized economy and cooperative civilization building 

 

To break it the scalability of factory industry needs to be nerfed.. scripting is fun but it just further amplifies industry scalability to riddiculous meta levels

 

Limit based on char (like max active units per char) would be circumvented by alts.

 

Human time is the only thing that will work

 

Make industry units break down and require repair, maintenance and care.. require human grinding play time to keep the factory units operating 

 

Mining,logistics and trade are all grindy and hard to scale

 

Why is industry allowed to scale to such riddiculous levels that it create tychoons and monopolies that have largely passive income.. it actually kills the cooperative specialization that is supposedly the goal of this game.

 

As long as the single human mega factory meta exists it is the only thing worth doing.. it needs to not just be nerfed.. but killed.. otherwise there will never civ building and specialization 

Passive income?

 

Have you ever truly worked in a mega factory? cause it's quite obvious you dont own one. The day is literally consumed with.. "When is this buy order for 2300kL of Hematite going to get filled", or "Damn this person who is selling X item at far below production costs..." seriously people stop selling your L Containers at below production cost. Literally I spend 10 hours a day just to keep the lights on.. and I am far from being a mega factory.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2021 at 9:14 PM, NQ-Naerais said:

I'm wondering what people think of this? Would having to repair factory bits be a fun thing? or just feel grindy?

I currently have to either turn my factory off, which takes a day, or restart my system without audio (great stream) to do anything in my factory. So if you want me to spend time in there, please fix some of the bugs.

 

I wouldnt mind some kind of general action required to make things, but please dont just add more tedium. Maintaining and expanding a factory is un-fun enough, patch .23 added even more tedium and removed human interaction without any kind of improvement or adding fun.  

The biggest fix for the economy would be NQ stopping to try to fix it with measures which arent thought through. If you want to introduce something to make industry gameplay more active, please introduce something that can also be considered fun, not just extra steps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no doubt the economy is lopsided, but I really don't think tweaking the game as is is a good idea. There is soo much they need to add... Megafactories are fine if there is a great deal of PvP/Wars. Then there would be supply AND Demand.

 

Personally If I can only 'specialize' in one or two things then I'm not even interested at all..  I'll just specialize in screws, put them up for sale and log off. Yippy!   

 

I'm not even interested in PvP, only industry. Some people JUST want to kill things and that's great as long as your buying my engines 😃 

 

I ONLY want to make factories and mine, PLEASE don't limit my gameplay because there isn't enough to do in PvP yet. Once WARS pick up the economy will right itself. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2021 at 3:14 PM, NQ-Naerais said:

I'm wondering what people think of this? Would having to repair factory bits be a fun thing? or just feel grindy?

Hi Naerais,

 

To make industry "a fun thing", lets work on getting the skills that have been broken since beta launch fixed first. The schematics were a necessary evil that the game had to evolve to, but to actively avoid the skills that are broken and yet still allow players to dump months of training into only to find out that they are broken.. well is not fun. It's depressing, here we are with a couple million xp in skills that well.. do absolutely nothing..  

As for the repair of broken factory bits.. no, god no... if the above paragraph remains true.. then I would want absolutely nothing to do with repairs as issues would not be addressed in a timely manner. 

TL:DR : First fix the foundation of Industry, to then be able to build upon it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

imo mega factory are not a thing anymore as i use to have one because of schematics. a lot of people i know now are only doing a few key items as well.

Quote

why market for components, parts, alloys etc

imo why they are not a thing is most people who i know, who do indy including myself plan out the whole line now with schematics for all of the parts to build the final item.which also reminds me @NQ you need to add batch sizes for information  when you look up a part on the market so we can plan out our lines better.

 

i also dont think we are truly feeling the results of the schematic change as of yet for a few reasons

1.  mega factory people had a lot of backstock of all the things

2. people who had all these parts all put them up at the same time, more or less flooding the market and driving prices down hard.( reason why? cuz they needed capital to buy schematics)

3. right now its hard to even find items that are worth making with skills due to #2 to even make good money, you are better off just selling the ores in a lot of cases right now.this will clear up over time. why is it taking so long? well lets be honest here a lot of people stopped playing so less people are buying things.

 

Quote

High level items are made by factories that take ore input and produce finished products, otherwise we would see the intermediary parts being bought and sold.. which they are not

eh imo no. people i know are teaming up to build high level items but they plan out the whole line. people i know would not setup a line that they cant afford the whole line even if the parts were on the market to supplement the  schematics they cant afford.

why you ask?

1 . it simply just not efficient to do, people who tend to like indy gameplay like efficiency and dont want to rely on the market as well as making it harder with more math and spreadsheets to figure out the total cost of said item. (have to make sure its profitable and that would be annoying to do)

2. if your setting up a high level item the build times are really long, one of the engines that a few people setup a line for cost over 350m( just in schematic cost) for making engines 24/7 but will only make 40 a year.btw @ NQ the assembly handling skills that are supposed to cut down crafting time are ether not working or not displaying it they are still testing it to see which is the case(and yes this is the case even after hitting the start button). also to be honest with NQ i really think you need to go though all the skills one by one cuz i know over 5 that dont work as intended and i know their are more. hell the rate of fire skills and the range skills for weapons do the opposite, rate of fire takes longer if you train it and range goes down instead of up... . lots of skills are broken.but you dont know until you spend the time to train it. some skills compound their percentages and some dont. i have no clue on these which is intended and not sure if one is bugged over the other.

 

imo mega factories are also dead because of the incoming power requirements. most of the people who do indy are also not going crazy like they use to because of this as well . they are building lines that they change after x of a run of an item but building a bit of a stockpile to last a while. so when the power comes into play they will have less issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...