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Warp removing any risk from pvp needs to end.


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1 minute ago, Revelcro said:

Oh geez we got Cat-3 coming out of our ears thanks to skill boosting making excess constantly.   We gotta experiment with that now.

You are welcome. Cat-3 is abundant at any factory. If it's nerfed there are always other "creative" ways if people start doing crap. 

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3 minutes ago, Warlander said:

Like I said it costs me around 32mil h to avoid pvp the least PvPers can do is break the encryption to sieze a ship or blow up in the process since you shouldnt be able to take an L core with just one person in a star fighter if it takes like 12 missles to down it.

32 million?  I frickin wish it was so low.  If the pvpers knew how much it cost us in warp cells they would probably take a fraction of that in "lane tax" just to leave the ship alone and shake their heads all the way to the bank.  As it is it's basically a hugely expensive insurance policy.

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Just now, Revelcro said:

32 million?  I frickin wish it was so low.  If the pvpers knew how much it cost us in warp cells they would probably take a fraction of that in "lane tax" just to leave the ship alone and shake their heads all the way to the bank.  As it is it's basically a hugely expensive insurance policy.

And you think that your should continue flying back and forth completely unopposed and having the ability to delete your cargo to make hunting you potentially fruitless. Did I get you right ?

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6 minutes ago, XKentX said:

And you think that your should continue flying back and forth completely unopposed and having the ability to delete your cargo to make hunting you potentially fruitless. Did I get you right ?

Oh you don't need to start an argument about it because I agree it would be a purely vindictive act to delete our cargo rather than watch it get stolen.   But you have to expect that when a group has spent weeks for the resources and the building of a m-core 15+ megaliter hauler, a week of a 5+ man group mining ore out of feli or locobus as we are now to fill it and then watch it get lost after slow boating for hours and somebody eases up to us while we are going 30,000kph and takes it after a short and entirely one sided battle.  Those guys are going to go nuts, so that cargo will probably go out the window rather than see somebody else just take it.  Because that might even be the final straw in this game for them, they are likely tat that point already quiting and so will likely rage quit at the prospect of it and just take the last of the inventory and toss it to the winds rather than let some pvp group get it.

 

YOU ARE RIGHT, its ridiculous to let some player get away with deleting the cargo that somebody is rightfully stolen.  However the amount of time investment it takes to get to this point is also rediculous.   Which leads to some people (none that I honestly know of yet in our guild or we would mock them endlessly) spending cash (that they have apparently too much of) to just get them back to where they were.  This is a system that I am not happy with and you have to admit neither are you.

 

This is the larger issue that we have to overcome, together really.  The time investment is just insane in this game.  If we lowered that to a more reasonable amount (and apparently for both pvp and miners) then believe me I would love to fight it out in the warp lanes for the cargo we spent hours (not days) acquiring.  Hell honestly it sounds like fun.

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38 minutes ago, XKentX said:

You delete cargo, no problem. I logoff 5 alts at your new ship with inventory full of catalyst 3 until you give me the same back(I will decide what it was). Deal ?

 

Former is perfectly fine, I do not owe you anything with regards to my cargo and if you allow me to remain alive while you disable my ship I am well within my rights to deny you access to my cargo. Latter is IMO pretty much exploiting a game oversight/loophole which needs to both be fixed and declared an exploit in the meantime for NQ to be able to action it when it is used.

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Ok read alot of these thread but not all.  IMO warping should be far cheaper maybe a 1/10th of the current cost.

 

They should add a new element (Gravity Well Generator)or allow a secondary function to the agg that allows players to create a gravity well.  This gravity would pull ships out of warp. 

 

Idea of ranges

GWG S - 50km bubble

GWG M - 200km bubble

GWG L - 800k bubble

 

This could allow pirates or whoever to set up nets.  Forcing warping players create there own non direct routes. 

 

I think this would add alot of tactics for both PVPers and warping ships.  As Orgs would try to create there own secret routes. 

 

Also on a side note, it would be a cool thing to get a element that can detect heavy warped areas so pirate or opposing factions can find the hidden jump routes. 

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2 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

Former is perfectly fine, I do not owe you anything with regards to my cargo and if you allow me to remain alive while you disable my ship I am well within my rights to deny you access to my cargo. Latter is IMO pretty much exploiting a game oversight/loophole which needs to both be fixed and declared an exploit in the meantime for NQ to be able to action it when it is used.

 

Honestly if NQ fixes some of the other issues even leading up to the fight (insane resource investment) then I would be perfectly fine with cargo getting locked for a set time period the moment any other ship identifies/targets your ship.  Hell if they made ships cheap enough to build then I would be ok with cargo being locked in place the moment you step into pvp space, no really.   We for the most part are not actually against pvp and have even dabbled into building pvp escort ships ourselves.  We are mostly against how expensive pvp is for the mining side.  Fix that and we will slug it out with a smile on our faces.  Make ore mining give more ore per node and faster, WAY more WAY faster. Or drop the cost of building some of our ships and we can more easily replace them if they are lost and drop the investment cost across the board for all parties.  Suddenly we are not losing our half billion quanta investment in a warp lane after 1 encounter.

 

As for the cat-3 exploit (we are so going to play with this and cat-5) , its pretty easy to circumvent.  We don't buy ships, we sell them.  We have an endless supply of Hammerhead (thank you comrade Bright) and other blueprints to work with.  But it would be amusing as heck.

 

That reminds me, I need a signature with the HammerHead advert, most versatile ship in the galaxy.

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1 hour ago, Revelcro said:

32 million?  I frickin wish it was so low.  If the pvpers knew how much it cost us in warp cells they would probably take a fraction of that in "lane tax" just to leave the ship alone and shake their heads all the way to the bank.  As it is it's basically a hugely expensive insurance policy.

The ship and cargo factored in for a round tip to the farthest planets with the ship I made can cost potentially 32mil h or $25-40 in RL cash if I run into PvPers and have to warp. This accounts for the empty/practically empty ship heading to the planet and the full boat on the way back. When I mine im not going there with 2 L containers im heading there with 20-30L containers and staying a while. That potentially costs me 32+ Million h depending if I encounter 2 PvP encounters. Not to mention just cutting down the digital road trip NQ requires.

 

It basically costs 2.5-5k cells round trip at the current market value of 9k per warp cell and what the warp cell calculator says along with what it can cost. Regardless going to closer planets will cost a lot less the the 32+mil h. Or if I dont encounter any PvP the cost goes down tremendously if I slow boat sure.

 

But I factor the cost of the cells in and add containers to fill to cover the cost since I would lose money if I attempted to make them and with the rate the mats required to make them are being wholesale pillaged and burned I expect warp cell costs to sky rocket at some point if it takes a lot of higher tier mats to make them and the amount and rate people are using them.

 

I dont want to fly a virtual road trip 8hr one way flight or 16hr round trip. No matter what im likely going to use warp anyhow since I have other things to do then fly for that long. SO really no matter what im likely going to use warp cells either way if I run into PvPers or not, they are just in the way of my travel and a momentary nuisance.

 

Thing is it still costs me 32+mil h wether you believe me or not. And as I keep pointing out you dont have to pay anything to steal everything I worked for since I cant do anything to you even if I wanted to since im trapped in the Mining/Piloting/crafting meta for the forseeable future. Even if I wanted to I have like 6 years before I likely que up for weapons/ammo talent trees. I would love nothing more then to fight you but its just not in the cards for me in this game.

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52 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

 

Former is perfectly fine, I do not owe you anything with regards to my cargo and if you allow me to remain alive while you disable my ship I am well within my rights to deny you access to my cargo. Latter is IMO pretty much exploiting a game oversight/loophole which needs to both be fixed and declared an exploit in the meantime for NQ to be able to action it when it is used.

The former is cheap tactic that should be fixed by disabling container access and build mode while in combat and the later is perfectly fine tactic to sabotage enemy ships with my spies. 

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18 minutes ago, XKentX said:

The former is cheap tactic that should be fixed by disabling container access and build mode while in combat and the later is perfectly fine tactic to sabotage enemy ships with my spies. 

Scorched Earth tactic is not cheap, it has been used for centuries to deter/ slow down enemy from advancing and deny them any spoils of war. 

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Frankly the reasons for counting logged off players towards the mass of a ship is another great example of how a silly argument to "fix" something really causes more problems that it solves. Mass of logged off characters should not count, it is a griefing mechanic waiting to be/actively exploited. I should also be able to find out whether there is a logged off stowaway on my ship and have the ability to remove them.

 

I do not see where you can consider it a right to gain access to cargo on my ship when you attack it. Frankly, i feel suggesting for a change preventing using what literally is an age old tactic to prevent an attacker to gain from their action as dumb.

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The funny part about self destruct sequence is that it already exists if you save up all your last crash parts for a single use kamkazi hauler. As soon as I can duplicate my ship that is all im going to fly. Everything on the last break so just when you think you ganked a good haul jackpot There is nothing to gain its all destroyed even the containers and everything inside.

 

Im suggesting it for the crews out there who want to head out with fresh new parts who should have the right to have a self destruct sequence if they dont want their ship to fall into enemy hands.

 

If NQ ever gets the cores worked out to where ships can collide and do damage equal to the volume to see who smashes who more there could be some interesting dynamics of just ramming vessels with self destruct going and blowing up the survivors or rescuers. Self destruct is not simply a defense only weapon.

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I just stopped to say "I told you so".

 

Several months ago I warned against PVPers that get their joy from the misery of others.
I warned about the lack of mechanics to protect new players or lone players and small orgs.
I told you guys about how it was very unrealistic to create a civilization with game addicted persons.
I told you would how pvp would be very asymmetric. 
I told you how the game would end up only having PVPers and lose a player base.

At that time, most of you engaged me, some in a very harsh manner.
Now I see some of those some guys defending the points I was defending. 

In my opinion, now, it's too late... So I am just sitting here eating popcorn. Have fun.

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54 minutes ago, blazemonger said:

There will be no ramming mechanics in DU.. that has been made very clear from early on.

Just for the sake of curiosity, what happens when 2 ships collide with each other? Never happened to me to collide with another moving ship so genuinely I don't know.

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20 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

I just stopped to say "I told you so".

 

Several months ago I warned against PVPers that get their joy from the misery of others.
I warned about the lack of mechanics to protect new players or lone players and small orgs.
I told you guys about how it was very unrealistic to create a civilization with game addicted persons.
I told you would how pvp would be very asymmetric. 
I told you how the game would end up only having PVPers and lose a player base.

At that time, most of you engaged me, some in a very harsh manner.
Now I see some of those some guys defending the points I was defending. 

In my opinion, now, it's too late... So I am just sitting here eating popcorn. Have fun.

You're so off the mark.  Every single person I play with side steps the pvp zone 100%.  (the non-pvpers) And the 0.001% that do die in the pvp zone hauling, end up warping after.  Ive personally talked to a hauler I killed and said "well im just gonna warp from now on."  You didn't tell anyone anything.  

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1 minute ago, JohnnyTazer said:

You're so off the mark.  Every single person I play with side steps the pvp zone 100%.  (the non-pvpers) And the 0.001% that do die in the pvp zone hauling, end up warping after.  Ive personally talked to a hauler I killed and said "well im just gonna warp from now on."  You didn't tell anyone anything.  

If only ppl could click on my profile and read what I wrote and see how you are BSing as usual.

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2 minutes ago, joaocordeiro said:

If only ppl could click on my profile and read what I wrote and see how you are BSing as usual.

You didnt tell anyone anything, and its Laughable you equate real life in the equation for people wanting to shoot space ships in a video game.  Let me guess, people who queue up for a PUBG match are greifing when they kill other people to get their chicken dinner. 

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1 hour ago, Fra119 said:

Just for the sake of curiosity, what happens when 2 ships collide with each other? Never happened to me to collide with another moving ship so genuinely I don't know.

Faster ship goes boom usually. Some "wonderful" guy was at the markets with an engine and brake covered XS ship and flying into the way of landing ships and stopping cold a few days ago. Caused several to crash including a few L cores.

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4 hours ago, Warlander said:

The reverse ram is a thing it should only be fair that an L core should smash an XS core completely without question and yet a fly can take down a human in this case if you walk into it. Sound logic NQ.

You fly your L core construct into an empty xs core (or say a glass wall based off of an XS core) and your L construct goes boom..

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14 hours ago, XKentX said:

The former is cheap tactic that should be fixed by disabling container access and build mode while in combat and the later is perfectly fine tactic to sabotage enemy ships with my spies. 

So besides getting the cargo you can also go in build mode and just start grabbing the elements that still fit your nano, or even delete the ship.

I think we just got an extra strategy for those who really dont want their stuff stolen.

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1 hour ago, Maxim Kammerer said:

There is nothing to be fixed. Scorched earth is legit tactics. Be happy that we don't have self destruct.

Apparently we do, it is called build mode where you can delete your structure, never even tried to enter buildmode in battle so no idea if it works but if some people here say so it probably does

 

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