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Moosegun

Would you leave if they wiped before Launch

Would you leave DU if they wiped?  

112 members have voted

  1. 1. If NQ bowed to new player pressure and said they were going to wipe on launch would you?

    • continue playing and then restart at launch
      49
    • leave the game and never return
      35
    • stop playing now and return for launch
      20
    • post memes
      8


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While I completely understand the need or at least desire for a reset, I wouldn't stick around for it.

 

The game is glorious, but it's also gloriously incomplete and mostly still broken... from physics, to RDMS to PVP to the "economy".. And especially the economy, which is beyond a joke...  So many designs choices and conscious decisions that can only politely (and I mean this politely) be considered completely retarded have allowed players to skip entire segments of gameplay (the one month voyage to space, anyone?) and create a vast, nay inconceivable amount of wealth (200 L containers frivolously left open to a subordinate?)... NQ have allowed exploiters to roam Scott free and it's very likely they have no idea the full extent of the abuse their systems came under...  Even  offering information fishing expeditions to find the miscreants disguised as "armistices".

I have recently been looking back at my efforts so far and got to wondering, what has it all been for?

It's a question many more people would ask if they were told a full wipe was in the works.

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i would accept a wipe and i think they will wipe because huge changes are needed and i dont think they can do these changes without a wipe. just let us keep the skills/talents and maybe the money(not that important)

 

*edit* only wipe after you did huge performance improvements, so many people have low fps and thats the main problem for me and others. other problems are marketbots, pvp, economy, industry and stop allowing ppl to build bases 8000meters in the air. years from now you cant fly around a planet because thousand/hundreds of these structures are built and one day you will crash into one of them.

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It was actually not ever "sold" as a soft launch even when it clearly  is/was. Closest NQ came to that was JC saying "well, if you would call that a soft launch then sure" but he stopped short at confirming as much (which frankly is typical NQ).

 

I guess for me the point is that not wiping following a beta period where a _lot_ will change and the game may well be structurally very different, is uncommon if not unfair _at that point_. I for one am certain that doing a wipe would in fact be beneficial and drive an influx of new player at that time than the naysayers think/expect. While the sample size if way to small to be a valid indicator, there is an interesting 2:1 ratio where players indicate they would be playing at release if there was a wipe.

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There are 2 issues here:

If they wipe, people will get mad for loosing all their work, etc etc

If they don’t wipe, all the illicit gain form the ample use of exploits will never be overcome, specially when they plug one hole but open 3

 

Wipe or not, the damage is already done long term anyway.

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So OP from your post am I to understand that DU currently suffers from a lack of players?  I was unaware of this.

Well, if the game is going to die from a lack of players then I guess they have to do something or we will have nothing to play anyway.

 

20 minutes ago, Iorail said:

There are 2 issues here:

If they wipe, people will get mad for loosing all their work, etc etc

If they don’t wipe, all the illicit gain form the ample use of exploits will never be overcome, specially when they plug one hole but open 3

 

Wipe or not, the damage is already done long term anyway.

I dont think they will wipe.  Some players have done an extraordinary amount of work.

As far as the illicit gains go, well, yes thats very annoying.  Still I'm sure they know (or are incompetent if they don't) who has been glitching, exploiting (cheating).  They could if they have the balls, impose a penalty on the offenders.  Say..... remove half their skill points or remove all their assets and cash.

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28 minutes ago, Underhook said:

As far as the illicit gains go, well, yes thats very annoying.  Still I'm sure they know (or are incompetent if they don't) who has been glitching, exploiting (cheating).  They could if they have the balls, impose a penalty on the offenders.  Say..... remove half their skill points or remove all their assets and cash.

are there any records, anecdotal or actual of people being penalised for exploiting? Or are they going to wait a year and then punish them retroactively (which would be delicious, but evil at the same time)...?

In all likelihood, the fact that they are asking the players to come forward in an ostensible amnesty is likely because they can't/don't want to go through all the records and undo all the exploits. Or they can't figure out a way to punish the "miscreants" fairly.

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2 hours ago, Underhook said:

I dont think they will wipe.  Some players have done an extraordinary amount of work.

 

While true, that work would not be lost. There would be effort in getting the raw materials to rebuild (as in spawn in the blueprint) sure, but that is about it.

Provided NQ would return accrued talent points to the pool and blueprints are retained (which would be the case anyway) I see no real reason why a wipe would not be good once the game is sufficiently balanced and exploits removed.

 

There will always be those who say they would not return to the game in case of a wipe but I think we all know that most of those saying that would be back in to rebuild just like the majority of us.

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1 hour ago, blazemonger said:

 

While true, that work would not be lost. There would be effort in getting the raw materials to rebuild (as in spawn in the blueprint) sure, but that is about it.

Provided NQ would return accrued talent points to the pool and blueprints are retained (which would be the case anyway)

No. Just no. There is no way I could spawn my blueprints correctly to adhere to terrain. I would have to pick up and replace whole industry, redo buildings.
Next thing - do you have any idea how much stuff would have to be grinded? I think you have not seen much if you think it would be for smaller orgs easy to get back up to speed - not to mention you would have to make factories to make factories to even have everything you need to make said blueprints. Or are we talking bots in the market again? 
 

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Considering expoits and exploiters (umbrella terms in this case, because people trying to do all styles of shit, not only old school exploits) -- very painful issue. As I see it, NQ lacks both technical and political powers to really crack down on them.

 

From technical point of view, while they probably can (if really want) trace player activity in detail via some sort of logs, its still a lot of manual work for very limited staff available, so it reserved only to some especialy nasty statistical cases or very aimed check (based on intel). Obviously, things slip through. To what extent? Who knows...

 

Yet real problem is political will. 

 

Judging from my building/online games experience (both player/moderator/admin on amateur level) most of exploiters  not some new unknown lonely wierdos, but... people we probably know quite well (respect?), some are even members of big and serious organizations. And what is especialy important, its rarely done for "solo use", again, whole organization benefit from such activities, splitting ill-gotten goods between members, both involved and not. This makes any serious investigation total hell, because so many actors and transactions, hidden traces (and honest players as "hostages"). And such people will not stay silent if cornered -- they will agressivly defend, manipulate others, blackmail by attacking game reputation and overall create immense ammount of drama that always serious deterence.

 

Can you imagine NQ wiping all property from 200-300 player organization? Perma-banning several dozens of them? I'm not.

 

So far NQ very reluctant go rise any ammount of dust at all (even if people really deserve some trashing), so its inevetably considered sort of carte-blache in particular circles. I expect this sort of issues to escalate even more.

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35 minutes ago, le_souriceau said:

From technical point of view, while they probably can (if really want) trace player activity in detail via some sort of logs, its still a lot of manual work for very limited staff available, so it reserved only to some especialy nasty statistical cases or very aimed check (based on intel). Obviously, things slip through. To what extent? Who knows...

 

Yet real problem is political will. 

I'm not so sure about their technical ability to trace this. I'm highly skeptical that they have the metrics in place that would let them do meaningful analysis, programatic or otherwise. 

 

I'm curious why people think a wipe will improve performance...?

 

Wiping pre-release has a negative impact on performance.

 

They only have 10 or so starting cities. Every new player gets funneled through those cities and Sanctuary Moon. They have no way to distribute load across more starting areas, which is highly amusing.

 

Wiping guarantees that more players have to share fewer areas out of the gate, and that's a massive performance bottleneck. Network traffic scales exponentially as players share the same space. Beta launch showed just how much this impacted the game. If they do wipe, they probably need to double the number of starting cities or more. 

 

I know people imagine this game changing so much in the year they plan to keep it in beta...there's no evidence that a wipe will magically enable them to improve performance or implement sweeping changes. How will they handle gameplay changes and optimizations in production? Wiping the server every few years? Now is the time to test those mechanics as if this were production...a wipe is a poor choice to test how gameplay updates break things. 

 

There's absolutely reasons to do a wipe...but it won't fix performance. It won't enable them to make sweeping gameplay changes. Again, they only plan to keep the game in beta for a year. Whatever changes you imagine that would require a wipe probably won't arrive for years....

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I can tell this is going to be a never ending cycle of wipe posts and conspiracies.  Just like to this day Eve Online is still plagued by wipe requests.  

 

Having a history in game, good or bad is what makes the universe feel lived in.  Just because you didn't get the head start or get the start you wanted doesn't mean that there needs to be a wipe.  Stop being selfish and narrow minded.  The world doesn't revolve around you and your demands.  Show up late to a movie, they don't stop the movie and start over for you.  So neither should DU. 

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meh this was sold as open beta but in truth its in alfa state and anyone that was on the fence because of a lack of anything playable full time has come in and made their minds up

 

What i saw in alfa vids looked promising but from what ive seen this game needs more then 1 year to be in a place where they could mainstream it and have lots of players like they want

 

 the game features are so bear bones right now i stooped playing. the voxel building is nice but that's about it

 

and then we have the devs who let Questionable acts and exploits go on without punishment release PvP in an utterly broken state and dont seem to have any vision for this game other then lets let it be a free for all pvp fest the players will sort it out.

 

Last Oasis/ Darkfall /atlas/Life Is Fuedal MMO

 

all them games are dead and all of them have pve content which DU wont have any and all of them were based on having 1 mega server we all play on that is policed buy players and yep DEAD GAMES

 

Dual Universe advertises well but like everything from its age of crowd funding fails to do what its states

 

im glad the alfa backer get their game after waiting so long but DU should have remained an ALFA and just went full time with the packages still in place, i know i for one would have been a lot more forgiving of what i think

but yea this idea they will get more players either way at least in my thinking is foolish they have had their peek and this is the player base

 

in general tho a server wipe in sandboxes like this causes more damage then good you only have to look at ATLAS to see what server wipe can do in a game thats 1 server for all players or life is fuedal mmo the results talk for themselves  with player bases in the few hundred players and this is the long term fate at least me and my friends see for DU.

 

i love pvp and i love eve because its a balance of thought out game play with good mechanics and this game has none of that and never will in the state its in

 

I didnt want A BROKEN RUST IN SPACE voxel building game 

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2 hours ago, Magnus01 said:

meh this was sold as open beta but in truth its in alfa state and anyone that was on the fence because of a lack of anything playable full time has come in and made their minds up

 

... stuff

 

I didnt want A BROKEN RUST IN SPACE voxel building game 

If you are playing it like rust that is part of your problem, there is nothing to do if you play solo and have no imagination.  Live like a hermit, you will get bored.

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On 10/13/2020 at 5:08 PM, le_souriceau said:

 As I see it, NQ lacks both technical and political powers to really crack down on them.

 

All they (have shown to) lack is a decisive attitude and the willingness (as in "balls") to draw the line and enforce it.

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If they wipe talent progress, I would be unhappy but probably not leave.

If they wipe blueprints, I would cancel my sub, uninstall the game, and use an "eraser" program to ensure that not a single bit of DU remained on my computer.  I would then hit myself in the head with a hammer until I forgot DU ever existed.

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The moment JC said that they scrapped the planet update and the needed wipe for that because the existing planet looked "good enough", I figured something was up and pressure from players who have the ear of NQ/JC pretty much had been able to manipulate the way NQ develops the game. That in itself is a worrying thought.

 

The planets are not "good enough" when you know you have something better. "Good Enough" does not set you apart, it does not differentiate.

 

I can see and would agree that a blanket wipe would not be good. A wipe where blueprints are preserved (without materials included) and talent tree points are returned to the pool so we can respec at least once and to bring in planet improvements at the moment the game is more balanced and some of the current exploits and loopholes are patched is IMO not at all a bad thing.

 

 

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On 10/13/2020 at 3:18 PM, GraXXoR said:

While I completely understand the need or at least desire for a reset, I wouldn't stick around for it.

 

The game is glorious, but it's also gloriously incomplete and mostly still broken... from physics, to RDMS to PVP to the "economy".. And especially the economy, which is beyond a joke...  So many designs choices and conscious decisions that can only politely (and I mean this politely) be considered completely retarded have allowed players to skip entire segments of gameplay (the one month voyage to space, anyone?) and create a vast, nay inconceivable amount of wealth (200 L containers frivolously left open to a subordinate?)... NQ have allowed exploiters to roam Scott free and it's very likely they have no idea the full extent of the abuse their systems came under...  Even  offering information fishing expeditions to find the miscreants disguised as "armistices".

I have recently been looking back at my efforts so far and got to wondering, what has it all been for?

It's a question many more people would ask if they were told a full wipe was in the works.

The day the wipe this game is the day I quit this game!

 

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I know exactly how JC/NQ decisions work and what are thinking right now: they either may or may not wipe some or all aspects of progress... at some point in the near or far future.

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